***NBA Playoffs: Finals Thread***
- Thread starter JimboBBN
- Start date
Did you just call Draymond an average player? You can’t expect people to take your points seriously if you say stuff like that.
Green has been Defensive Player of the Year, twice second team all NBA, three times first team all NBA defense, and three times has finished in the top ten in assists. All this by age 27. That doesn't sound like average to me.
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I'm fairly certain. If Green and Klay were out, Lebron and Love and the boys would roll over Curry and Durant. Wouldn't be close.
Not sure Lebron plays with any defenders like Green and Klay.
You know I think he is overrated, but he is most definitely above avg.
I do think he puts up these numbers and accomplishes these things because of his system and teammates, but he is at least above average.
Perhaps, as the synergism of great teammates will elevate anyone's game, but I doubt that many could accomplish what he does simply by replacing him.
The assists part I’ll give you. Sure, he wouldn’t get nearly the amount of assists if he wasn’t playing with 3 of the 10 best players in the NBA. However, he busts his ass every play on the boards and defense, which is definitely not something you can say about most players in the league.
Also true...but I also could not see Green doing what Love did and being the focal point of a bad team, a guy the other defenses are geared to stop.
And before anyone says Minnesota was terrible with him they were a 40-win team in the rugged West his last year there.
Draymond Green? Not even close for me. You can't be a top 12 player in my eyes if you are a guy the other team wants to see shoot. Even if open.
Yeah, Green has a skill set that is hardly all encompassing, and that would also be true of Love. Quite possibly, if Golden State and Cleveland made a Green/Love trade, both teams would be worse, LOL.
I have no doubt both would be worse. They need Love as a guy who can rebound, score inside and with Lebron take his man away from the hoop. With Green, the D would just let him go to the 3 point line and sag off.
It hurts GS as well. Love might help their rebounding, but not like they need another shooter, and while I don't think he's as bad on D as some think, he certainly is no Green on that end of the floor.
Love Korver, but can we give them him for Klay instead?Winking
I hope people don’t hold this series against LBJ in the long run. Surely people can see the odds against him, instead of just looking at another loss in the finals column.
You know better than that.....people held the 2015 loss against him where it was a miracle they won 2 games.
I wonder what the narrative on him would be if there never was an MJ. Maybe Kobe gets lifted up to MJ status and he would be the measuring stick....and those who don't like him would still look for ways to rip on him?
I really admire Korver, and he comes across as very intelligent and insightful in interviews, but doesn't he look just a little bit like that guy who in those Geico Caveman commercials?
I don’t think he’d get nearly the amount of shit he does if MJ was never MJ. You have Kobe diehards that are kinda split into two. One group loves him as their favorite player and will always be loyal to the Mamba. At the same time, they recognize as good as he was, others are or have been better. I’m in this group. But then you have the other side that thinks he’s the GOAT no matter what, which is silly. But if you ask me, LBJ is clearly ahead of Kobe at this point. You can make two arguments for Bean over LeBron, rings and crunch time. But other than that, they aren’t close as complete players.
I watched the Bad Boys documentary from ESPN last night, as they are one of my favorite all time teams. It is nuts how good Jordan was, even before he started winning rings. You can’t compare him and Kobe, so I would like to think without MJ, LeBron would be the clear best of all time.
anon_0astpxev9h4gk
Well-Known Member
anon_0astpxev9h4gk
Well-Known Member
Oh, they will. Don’t you worry. Haters will come out in full force.
Probably so. I used to not be a fan, but over the years I’ve learned to appreciate his greatness. Just undeniable at this point.
anon_0astpxev9h4gk
Well-Known Member
Same. I didn’t like him at Miami, once he came back though I grew appreciation. His talent like you said is undeniable. So fun to watch.
Just heard someone making some points I've made about where Lebron ends up (from nba.com).
None of this to say no chance he leaves. But if he truly cares most about legacy, and really the only ones who don't think he can be the GOAT are the MJ lovers/Lebron haters, how does leaving help? If he wins another title, they'll say he had to chase a title and MJ never would have done that (never mind we don't know what MJ would have done under similar circumstances).
will be called Durant 2.0 and I guess it would be justified assuming he went to a team with 3-4 superstars on it. That said, if that's what he chooses to do I would not begrudge him.
None of this to say no chance he leaves. But if he truly cares most about legacy, and really the only ones who don't think he can be the GOAT are the MJ lovers/Lebron haters, how does leaving help? If he wins another title, they'll say he had to chase a title and MJ never would have done that (never mind we don't know what MJ would have done under similar circumstances).
will be called Durant 2.0 and I guess it would be justified assuming he went to a team with 3-4 superstars on it. That said, if that's what he chooses to do I would not begrudge him.
Is it possible people think MJ is the goat without being a LeBron hater? Asking for a friend.
Before the series the narrative was if LBJ wins he will solidify himself as the goat. How the tune has changed.....
LBJ is clearly the best player of his generation. Same with MJ. You can like one or the other and not be biased or a hater.
Before the series the narrative was if LBJ wins he will solidify himself as the goat. How the tune has changed.....
LBJ is clearly the best player of his generation. Same with MJ. You can like one or the other and not be biased or a hater.
Of course you can think MJ is the GOAT and not hate Lebron. I'm close to being in this category. Before the season I was, but I'm close to the Lebron side at this point.
But you cannot see there are many who are not capable of loving MJ and not ripping on Lebron or comparing him unfavorably to MJ every time Lebron accomplishes something or has a great performance?
There are definitely LeBron haters. There are also MJ haters as well. I love that I was fortunate enough to he able to watch both.
I really don't get it either. Why so many cannot appreciate one without putting down the other.
I’m one of them. LBJ is the second best player of all time, but I would suspect that most unbiased sports/basketball fans would still give the nod to MJ as GOAT.
Yeah, I could see MJ having a slight edge. Lebron's advantage, obviously, is he probably has another 4-5 years left. I actually think he hangs around to try and play with Lebron, Jr, which would mean at least another 6 years if my math is correct, and they keep the OAD rule.
He still has room to move up, which is crazy lol he’s already done so much.
Meh, kinda of do. I mean he let himself get switched on those bitch ass screens...that weren't even screens. GS did that just to get Love on KD. If your LeBron, you can't let that happen. You are allegedly the best player on the floor. The other team is feeding their best guy, setting some 1st grade screen to get YOU off him. Just no. Man up. Tell your guys, your coach---we ain't switching. I got KD. That' what the great ones do.
Also....Yiur down 3 with under a minute to go. And pass the ball to JR Smith?? And then do so again down 6? Really? Nope. You have no issues taking the majority of the shots all year. And throughout the series. But suddenly you don't wanna shoot when your season is on the line?
Look LeBron is great. But to me it seemed as if he ,well ...quit. He didn' t seem to have the fire in Game 3 as he did in Games one and two. I think that's because GS broke his will to win. As if he felt--'"meh, we ain't winning 4 vs these dudes. Not now.".
JMO. But I know a dude who played who wouldn't have allowed his ass to get picked off by some batch ass screen. Time and time again. Also wouldn't have passed the ball to a dude who hadnt made a shot since April, either. He would've manned up on KD. FBCK some measly ass 3rd grade screen. He would've shot the ball, down 3. And down 6.
"He" would be....
I think we all know.
Agree. I don't hate LeBron. What I do hate is how folks want to insinuate that just because you/we feel MJ is. Which IMO, he is. And to me...it just ain' close. Had Jordan not retired/suspended. Whatever you wanna call it. The Bulls probably win 8 or 9 STRAIGHT titles. I mean who was beating them with Michael in his prime?
Dude was just an assassin. His will to win was just, well, incredible. He wouldn' t have allowed GS to screen him time and time again to get him off of Durant. Just wouldn' have. Dudes who was to big for that. I mean can you imagine His Airness allowing that image to be stuck on him? I cant.
Did you just say that his will to win was just incredible in the same post you're talking about him quiting to play a sport he was winning at in his prime to play a sport he was terrible at?
Jackson would insist he get off Durant as Durant at nearly 7 feet would abuse MJ.
was MJ playing 46-48 minutes in many of the Finals games he played in with that incredible will to win of his?
And, of course, you forget/ignore he had 18 games to get ready for the playoffs and lost to the Magic (who were swept by Houston). so, no, they "probably" don't win 8-9 straight.
And said probably the toughest cover in the NBA - Durant - would have trouble going against MJ who is a waif compared to some of the guys who cannot stop him.
I think GSW close them out. Hoping I’m wrong and we get to each another game next week.
