***NBA Playoffs: Finals Thread***

[dtgold88]

Not impressed.

Durant joined a 73 win team. You should win every finals.

Usual suspects will take the blame - Lebron, Altman, Lue, Gilbert, Love, TT. comes down to one Decision, and what you alluded to..... Durant chose to Join Them and not Beat Them. He stays in OKC we were probably going for a 3 peat and maybe get it. Other than Houston this year, no one has given GS a run even in the rugged West since Durant arrived.

 

[dtgold88]

Congrats to the Golden State Warriors on another title!!

No more basketball until October

Sir.....only a couple months and preseason football!!

 

[dtgold88]

He congratulated the starters before he was subbed off for the last time.

But that ruins his narrative.

 

[JimboBBN]

I do not get this Houston idea.

Their cap situation is no better than ours. He could only sign there for an exception. Unless some team is foolish enough to take Ryan anderson and 2 more years at $20 mil per.

seems more likely Chris Paul would come to the Cavs which is never mentioned. why? How about Lebron is the far better player of the 2 and has ties to this community. why should Lebron go to him? How about the Cavs have far better assets for a sign and trade than Houston has?

Lakers are certainly a possibility but still hope he wants nothing to do with Lavar Ball. They also lack the shooters needed to play with him. Philly? also possible but they better hope Embiid does not talk to Bosh or Love and ask their opinion of playing with Lebron. I doubt Embiid wants to become a stretch 5.

Not fully updated on everyone’s cap situation, but if LBJ wants to beat the Warriors and have the best chance to win, Houston makes the most sense for now. It wouldn’t shock me to see Paul leave for Cleveland, but with Harden down in Houston that’s another superstar to help you take out Golden State. I don’t think just Paul would be enough to get the Cavs over the hump. Hell, Kyrie is better than CP3 and with Kyrie, the Cavs were only able to get one. Who knows, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him at any of Cleveland, LAL, Houston, or Philly.

 

[dtgold88]

Not fully updated on everyone’s cap situation, but if LBJ wants to beat the Warriors and have the best chance to win, Houston makes the most sense for now. It wouldn’t shock me to see Paul leave for Cleveland, but with Harden down in Houston that’s another superstar to help you take out Golden State. I don’t think just Paul would be enough to get the Cavs over the hump. Hell, Kyrie is better than CP3 and with Kyrie, the Cavs were only able to get one. Who knows, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him at any of Cleveland, LAL, Houston, or Philly.

I didn't say what I did thinking CP would come here, only that seems more likely than Lebron going there for the reasons mentioned.

Lebron would need to play for a near minimum deal to go to Houston, as mentioned, or someone would need to be foolish enough to take Ryan anderson's deal. No 2 ways about it I don't think.

 

[JimboBBN]

Sir.....only a couple months and preseason football!!

It’ll be here before we know it man! The day after the NBA finals is over is by far my least favorite in sports. Summer full of nothing of interest for me except the major golf tournaments. Fvck baseball.

 

[dtgold88]

It’ll be here before we know it man! The day after the NBA finals is over is by far my least favorite in sports. Summer full of nothing of interest for me except the major golf tournaments. Fvck baseball.

Football by far my favorite sport. Told my son during the Cavs parade in 2016 the excitement from just a Browns division title would dwarf this.

I do love the Tribe but will admit if they aren't any good I cannot watch baseball.

 

[I am stupid]

But that ruins his narrative.

He had to find another chalk board.



Edited. Trying to play nice.

 

[jhmossy]

Congrats to the Golden State Warriors on another title!!

No more basketball until October

The Panthers better be good this year because we all know UVA football is going to suck ass. I'm more excited for this college basketball season than any in my life. I am really anxious to see how UVA responds after the UMBC loss.

 

[JimboBBN]

Football by far my favorite sport. Told my son during the Cavs parade in 2016 the excitement from just a Browns division title would dwarf this.

I do love the Tribe but will admit if they aren't any good I cannot watch baseball.

Yup, I’ll take NFL over NBA all day. Think the Panthers could be pretty damn good this season. Of course, as usual, it depends on our QB.

 

[JimboBBN]

The Panthers better be good this year because we all know UVA football is going to suck ass. I'm more excited for this college basketball season than any in my life. I am really anxious to see how UVA responds after the UMBC loss.

We should be pretty good man. Our problem is the division we play in. By far the most stacked in football with us, the Falcons, and Saints. And yea, I’m pretty pumped for college ball, as usual.

 

[npreston]

Should have given Sausha Kaun the Perkins role. Damn why didn't you speak up sooner?

Just figured it was common knowledge. His next stop should be Philly. Embiid will give him 3/4 championships, easy.

 

[RondoBaller21]

Hate football eww!! Going to be a long summer!

 

[IUfanBorden]

Did you just say that his will to win was just incredible in the same post you're talking about him quiting to play a sport he was winning at in his prime to play a sport he was terrible at?

Well let's see detective. His will to win probably was trumped by the murder of his father. I dunno. I could be off. So he gets away from a sport where his father was a huge influence. Takes some time off. Sounds logical to me.
And BTW ---He did ok for a guy who hadn't played baseball since HS.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Jackson would insist he get off Durant as Durant at nearly 7 feet would abuse MJ.

was MJ playing 46-48 minutes in many of the Finals games he played in with that incredible will to win of his?

And, of course, you forget/ignore he had 18 games to get ready for the playoffs and lost to the Magic (who were swept by Houston). so, no, they "probably" don't win 8-9 straight.

Lol on all of this. But especially the last statement:
"He had 18 games to get ready for the playoffs....".
Wow...a whole 18? Jesus. That' s just terrible. He' s out the game for almost two full seasons. But hey...he did habe those 18 games. Are you being serious?
Hols shit. To funny. I mean...God damn.
Edit:
Ok, now that I'm done laughing, I'll continue. Can you let me know what MJ and the Bulls did the following 3 seasons after his FULL return? I mean I know...18 games is plenty to get yourself game ready for the NBA. It' s not like it' a league full of great players/athletes. So being out of the game for almost two seasons, BUT....having 18 games to get ready should be plenty. No problem. I mean did you proof read this garbage before you posted it? Seesh.

And BTW...I'll answer for you. With a full preseason/season under his belt, MJ led the Bulls to a then record 72 wins, and a 4th NBA ritle. Then a 5th....Then a 6th.
Man one of the worst post ever. "18 games "? Really?

 

[IUfanBorden]

Can't argue with irrational.

Or logic. Look LeBron has went to 8 straight finals because he' s in a terrible conference. Put his teams in Cleveland , in the West? He'l they probably Don t get past 2nd round. So now the excuse for his teams constantly losing is because he has no help. Nevermind the fact he' s benefited from a bad Eastern conference for years and years.

 

[dtgold88]

Yup, I’ll take NFL over NBA all day. Think the Panthers could be pretty damn good this season. Of course, as usual, it depends on our QB.

Believe it or not I'll say the same for the Browns. Not sure about "pretty damn good" but good with decent QB play.

I think they'd have won 4-5 games last year with Taylor at QB and they've made a number of other upgrades.

Can't wait!!

 

[dtgold88]

Just figured it was common knowledge. His next stop should be Philly. Embiid will give him 3/4 championships, easy.

Or stay and bring in Chalmers?

 

[dtgold88]

Well let's see detective. His will to win probably was trumped by the murder of his father. I dunno. I could be off. So he gets away from a sport where his father was a huge influence. Takes some time off. Sounds logical to me.
And BTW ---He did ok for a guy who hadn't played baseball since HS.

He played in AA as opposed to the highest level of the basketball universe.

I get you are one of those who can't say his logic was faulty or he was wrong, but this one's out there.

 

[JimboBBN]

Believe it or not I'll say the same for the Browns. Not sure about "pretty damn good" but good with decent QB play.

I think they'd have won 4-5 games last year with Taylor at QB and they've made a number of other upgrades.

Can't wait!!

Baker > Cam?

 

[dtgold88]

Lol on all of this. But especially the last statement:
"He had 18 games to get ready for the playoffs....".
Wow...a whole 18? Jesus. That' s just terrible. He' s out the game for almost two full seasons. But hey...he did habe those 18 games. Are you being serious?
Hols shit. To funny. I mean...God damn.
Edit:
Ok, now that I'm done laughing, I'll continue. Can you let me know what MJ and the Bulls did the following 3 seasons after his FULL return? I mean I know...18 games is plenty to get yourself game ready for the NBA. It' s not like it' a league full of great players/athletes. So being out of the game for almost two seasons, BUT....having 18 games to get ready should be plenty. No problem. I mean did you proof read this garbage before you posted it? Seesh.

And BTW...I'll answer for you. With a full preseason/season under his belt, MJ led the Bulls to a then record 72 wins, and a 4th NBA ritle. Then a 5th....Then a 6th.
Man one of the worst post ever. "18 games "? Really?

The guy with his incredible "will to win" cannot get ready in 18 real games? How could he ever get ready for a season then, as all they do is play 8-10 games that don't matter, he probably plays half of the games and the ones he plays, he probably only plays half the game.

How is it he missed most of a season with a broken foot, played roughly the last 17-18 games when he returned, then put up 60 in his first playoff game much earlier in his career?

Gotta love posters who think "lols", rolling smileys and GIFS/memes enhance their flawed argument.

Newsflash - it wont.

 

[dtgold88]

Or logic. Look LeBron has went to 8 straight finals because he' s in a terrible conference. Put his teams in Cleveland , in the West? He'l they probably Don t get past 2nd round. So now the excuse for his teams constantly losing is because he has no help. Nevermind the fact he' s benefited from a bad Eastern conference for years and years.

I don't disagree, but I'm logical, rational and objective. I agree in the West he goes to less Finals. But I can also see that if MJ played teams at the level of Lebron IN the Finals he wouldn't have the same success.

Lebron should probably do what MJ did and just go out in round 1 or a little later.

 

[I am stupid]

It's unfair to both to compare them in different eras.

The players were different, the game was different. Not to mention the difference in health education and training now. Who knows how different Jordan could have been if he had all the tools the players(especially LBJ)now have.

 

[dtgold88]

It's unfair to both to compare them in different eras.

The players were different, the game was different. Not to mention the difference in health education and training now. Who knows how different Jordan could have been if he had all the tools the players(especially LBJ)now have.

as I said, it sometimes floors me the angst some have for Lebron.

Just crazy everytime he has a great game, wins a title, gets to the Finals - again, has any sort of accomplishment, the MJ lovers or Get Off My Lawn Guy comes out to put him down.

something wrong with thinking they were both pretty damn special?

 

[speedfrk]

He should go to philly

 

[denniden]

as I said, it sometimes floors me the angst some have for Lebron.

Just crazy everytime he has a great game, wins a title, gets to the Finals - again, has any sort of accomplishment, the MJ lovers or Get Off My Lawn Guy comes out to put him down.

something wrong with thinking they were both pretty damn special?

I don’t like either Jordan or James, and lean towards Jordan as the better all timer (can see the argument the other way as well) but there is a lot of truth in what you say. Both guys are legendary type players.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Lebron is overrated.

There's been plenty of great players lose in the finals

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

 

[denniden]

Lebron is overrated.

There's been plenty of great players lose in the finals

I’m just not sure how you can say Lebron is overrated. He has proven to be in the conversation for best ever, and he isn’t done.

 

[dtgold88]

I’m just not sure how you can say Lebron is overrated. He has proven to be in the conversation for best ever, and he isn’t done.

I'm starting to come over to that side as well. In fact, I think some are being kind saying top 3-4. I'm thinking maybe top 15 with a chance to move into top 10 with 3-4 more titles.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Not fully updated on everyone’s cap situation, but if LBJ wants to beat the Warriors and have the best chance to win, Houston makes the most sense for now. It wouldn’t shock me to see Paul leave for Cleveland, but with Harden down in Houston that’s another superstar to help you take out Golden State. I don’t think just Paul would be enough to get the Cavs over the hump. Hell, Kyrie is better than CP3 and with Kyrie, the Cavs were only able to get one. Who knows, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him at any of Cleveland, LAL, Houston, or Philly.

No. Maybe next year as CP3 is past his prime, but not last year or this year (or any prior year). In any event, you're right that CP3 going to Cleveland (how? who knows) doesn't get Cleveland even close to beating GSW. Houston makes the most sense, but that would be a very thin team; we have to assume that the president of the player's union (CP3) that obtained a provision seemingly designed to ensure that he gets paid and took a pay cut last year (by opting into his option so he could be traded to Houston) is not going to take a big pay cut when it's likely his last big pay day.

It's unfair to both to compare them in different eras.

The players were different, the game was different. Not to mention the difference in health education and training now. Who knows how different Jordan could have been if he had all the tools the players(especially LBJ)now have.

Yup. And not only the conditioning, but the relative conditioning. KAJ was famously ahead of his time re: fitness. Would he have less of an advantage over his peers in 2018, or would he keep pushing and somehow squeeze blood from a stone and keep the same relative advantage over modern players? Maybe MJ's Tim Grover led workouts increased his fitness margin over his peers more than even LeBron's $1m body routine in an age when almost everyone is more advanced re: training. It's impossible to know.

 

[dtgold88]

No. Maybe next year as CP3 is past his prime, but not last year or this year (or any prior year). In any event, you're right that CP3 going to Cleveland (how? who knows) doesn't get Cleveland even close to beating GSW. Houston makes the most sense, but that would be a very thin team; we have to assume that the president of the player's union (CP3) that obtained a provision seemingly designed to ensure that he gets paid and took a pay cut last year (by opting into his option so he could be traded to Houston) is not going to take a big pay cut when it's likely his last big pay day.



.

I do think a healthy Kyrie could be considered better than CP3 at this stage, however, as a teammate to Lebron CP3 might be a better choice (as long as enough shooters on the roster).

I really don't see CP coming to Cleveland, but wonder why it's never mentioned as an option like Lebron going to Houston.

Guessing we can agree Lebron is the far better player of the 2 and he has ties to Cleveland (while CP only been in Houston a year). could probablky also agree in a sign and trade for either player (since neither really has any cap space), the Cavs have more to offer.

So why should Lebron have to follow CP3 and not vice versa?

 

[Big_Blue79]

^ because James Harden is on Houston and is much, much better than Love (and I like Love), and because Houston's management is much, much better than Cleveland's. They have a cleaner cap sheet (Anderson bad, the rest are decent to great contracts), a better roster, and are just a better organization. Kevin Pelton at ESPN had an article today about how it would go down. Could be done, but would be a thin roster (Morey's been good about filling out the roster with the right guys, but would be really tough).

 

[dtgold88]

^ because James Harden is on Houston and is much, much better than Love (and I like Love), and because Houston's management is much, much better than Cleveland's. They have a cleaner cap sheet (Anderson bad, the rest are decent to great contracts), a better roster, and are just a better organization. Kevin Pelton at ESPN had an article today about how it would go down. Could be done, but would be a thin roster (Morey's been good about filling out the roster with the right guys, but would be really tough).

Is Harden better than Love? No disagreement. Is he a better fit to play with Lebron? There I'm not sure. Many thought before they played together Love might be the best fit in the entire NBA to play with Lebron.

A big guy who could rebound, play inside and drag his man to the 3 point line (and hit 3s)? Not sure about the best fit, but would think moreso than Harden, who really doesn't offer anything Lebron can't give himself.

How is their management "much, much better"? with no Kyrie/Love injury and Durant choosing to join and not beat, would you argue the cavs would not have just played for a 4-peat?

You don't seem like the type who would go with the lazy "but they didn't" reply. I get they didn't, but not sure it was through any fault of their own.

Let's compare their management with Riley and Miami, as most seem to think Riley is all that and each had Lebron 4 years.......

*Both teams worked to clear cap space and bring Lebron to their team (Miami for 2010, Cavs for 2014)
*Miami won 2 titles, the cavs 1
*Cavs lost a title when Love and Kyrie were hurt. Think Miami wins in 2012 without Bosh and Wade? Only seems fair to compare apples to apples as a FO cannot be blamed for injuries, or credited for lack of the same
*Cavs' denied future success when Durant joined GS. Think Miami wins another title if Durant joined the Spurs in 2012?

None of this is to say the Cavs FO is spectacular, as their luck is in the fact the best player in the game is from NE Ohio.

 

[BassCat75]

DT shows more perseverance and determination defending the Cavs than Lebron showed in the Finals.

Edit - To answer your question, no, I can't have any sort of real discussion because this dumb site only lets me post once a week or so. So I just have the occasional observation.

 

[dtgold88]

DT shows more perseverance and determination defending the Cavs than Lebron showed in the Finals.

Are you able to refute anything I just said and have an actual basketball discussion?

Never mind I was far from defending Lebron and his antics since the Finals. He can play 3 games with no cast, but needs it for the post game presser? Embarrassing for him.

 

[dtgold88]

Oh my should this be an interesting few weeks leading up to FA.

Needs to be an over/under on teams Chris Broussard says Lebron will join before he decides. If it was 3.5 I'm taking the over.

Or how many super teams "insiders" can put together that would rival George Costanza's plan to acquire Bonds and Griffey for the Yankee OF "and not really have to give up that much"

2 latest I saw were Gary Payton of all people having the inside scoop and knowing he's going to LA because his kids enrolled in a school there. Next was Lebron is recruiting Westbrook to join him in Cleveland.

This is why I think a 1 year deal is not so impossible to stay. The guy is the lead story on nearly every sports show. Sign a longterm deal and he never gets to do this again (as he'll be 37-38), and I have no doubt he lives for this.

And more good news is it gives fans something to talk about until NFL camps open.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

 

[dtgold88]

View embedded media

Can't get sound here, but love the NFL version of these. This should be pure comedy. Can't wait.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Is Harden better than Love? No disagreement. Is he a better fit to play with Lebron? There I'm not sure. Many thought before they played together Love might be the best fit in the entire NBA to play with Lebron.

A big guy who could rebound, play inside and drag his man to the 3 point line (and hit 3s)? Not sure about the best fit, but would think moreso than Harden, who really doesn't offer anything Lebron can't give himself.

How is their management "much, much better"? with no Kyrie/Love injury and Durant choosing to join and not beat, would you argue the cavs would not have just played for a 4-peat?

You don't seem like the type who would go with the lazy "but they didn't" reply. I get they didn't, but not sure it was through any fault of their own.

Let's compare their management with Riley and Miami, as most seem to think Riley is all that and each had Lebron 4 years.......

*Both teams worked to clear cap space and bring Lebron to their team (Miami for 2010, Cavs for 2014)
*Miami won 2 titles, the cavs 1
*Cavs lost a title when Love and Kyrie were hurt. Think Miami wins in 2012 without Bosh and Wade? Only seems fair to compare apples to apples as a FO cannot be blamed for injuries, or credited for lack of the same
*Cavs' denied future success when Durant joined GS. Think Miami wins another title if Durant joined the Spurs in 2012?

None of this is to say the Cavs FO is spectacular, as their luck is in the fact the best player in the game is from NE Ohio.

Even if I concede that Love is a better fit next to LeBron, specifically, than Harden is (but I would dispute this), Harden is such a better fit for the modern NBA than Love is (and is a such a better player than Love is) that it doesn't matter to the end analysis. And the WCF confirmed that redundant playmakers are key to attacking switching defenses (Boston, GSW, Houston and others are switch heavy). Imagine LeBron able to rest more on offense. And I like Love more than probably most (but he is a terrible matchup against the GSW).

"None of this is to say the Cavs FO is spectacular." Agreed. Here's the thing, though: Houston's FO is spectacular. There's plenty of articles about Houston's shrewd roster/cap moves over the last 8 or so years, particularly how they continually acquire valuable assets despite never bottoming out. One little nugget to consider: on the best version of the Cavs (which I would argue was last year, and a title worthy team in most years), the best 3 players were acquired by: 1) LeBron being from the area and drafted by the Cavs #1 overall in 2004 ("I'm coming home"); 2) Irving was #1 overall pick; and 3) Love was traded for 2x #1 picks. It's like a lucky version of The Process - all #1 pick related! Houston's best 3 on their best version (this year) were acquired by: 1) trade assets acquired as a ~42 win team; 2) trade assets acquired as a ~55 win team; and 3) draft /develop 25th pick (Capela). Griffin was pretty solid (did great work getting trade exceptions and was continually shrewd with the cap), but he's gone and Morey is on another level in any event. And Comic Sans owner churns through GMs like Larry King went through wives; his best attribute is his pocketbook.

I don't think Riley is all that; we're in agreement there. He was hamstrung a bit more than Cleveland: traded a lot of future picks for LeBron and Bosh sign and trades (which would have been nice trade assets); had a completely gutted roster (i.e. no Kyrie or Wiggins); Mike Miller couldn't stay healthy (although they signed him for too many years to begin with). But Riley kept signing crappy veterans (all except Ray for a year, Battier until he broke down, and Chris Anderson for half a season). And since LeBron's left he traded 2 firsts (I believe unprotected) for Goran "12th best PG in the NBA at best" Dragic, continually overpaid middling to slightly above middling guys like Whiteside, James Johnson, Tyler Johnson, Dion Waiters, etc... and refused Boston's offer of all the #1 picks for Justice Winslow (Ainge is both lucky and good). (let us also never forgive or forget that Riley almost ruined the NBA with his Knicks and Heat rugby teams; screw Riley)

Finally, yes, LeBron/Cleveland was hampered by GSW adding a top 3 NBA player to a 73-win team. People like to compare it to The Decision, but they're not even remotely close. The Decision was the template, but The Hardest Road was a thermonuclear bomb exploding on the league.