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***NBA Playoffs: Finals Thread***

uncfan in ky said:
Want to count final mvps, titles won & titles lost?
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I’m not a fan of that argument. Nobody would take the Cavs over those MJ Bulls. MJ didn’t have to go up against the equivalent of a Green/Thompson/Curry/Durant lineup. The closest would be an aging Lakers squad or an aging Celtics squad. Not the same at all.

LeBron’s antics annoy me but he’s damn good. He may be the most naturally gifted basketball player of all time but likely won’t match MJ’s titles. I’m not sure that really takes away from his legacy and when he went to the Heat, people ripped him endlessly. Durant going to GS is far worse but people don’t mind because he’s more likable.

It’s all good though. GS will get another title and showboat all over the court like last night. I actually liked GS a few years ago but this years version is quite arrogant. Win with grace and realize you have a monster of a roster in comparison to the rest of the league.
 
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SpartyRBS said:
I’m not a fan of that argument. Nobody would take the Cavs over those MJ Bulls. MJ didn’t have to go up against the equivalent of a Green/Thompson/Curry/Durant lineup. The closest would be an aging Lakers squad or an aging Celtics squad. Not the same at all.
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But why not? Some say players today are much better.
 
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bignish said:
Just stop it man you;re embarrassing yourself and I like you.

This was the most GOAT performance I've ever seen in a Finals and it was robbed by JR Smith.

He literally defeated the greatest team of all time, the refs and JR Smith all by himself tonight.
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I find it strange you pick this one post to quote when I said nothing but great things about him the entire game. His supporters can’t help themselves anytime he loses, even if it’s game one in the finals to the GOAT team. Get it together, nish.
 
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Jay Will on ESPN this morning, “might as well put a GS jersey on the refs last night.”

He’s right on the money. Cleveland got cheated.
 
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npreston said:
Jay Will on ESPN this morning, “might as well put a GS jersey on the refs last night.”

He’s right on the money. Cleveland got cheated.
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How do you figure? If you are referencing the block, I think that was the right call. I don't know what the definition of legal guarding position is, but I doubt its sliding under an offensive player sideways while moving.
 
The most blanent missed call I can remember is when dude clearly hit Lebrons wrist while shooting and there wasn't a call. But they made it up later.
 
I’m not going to argue who’s better between LeBron & MJ.
Clearly MJ is the GOAt.
LeBron is hands down the best player in the league. There’s no question about that.
My biggest problem with LeBron is he Dominates games but seems to get passive towards the ends of games.
People can bitch about JR Smith or the missed Free throw.
There is absolutely no reason LeBron didn’t take that last shot in regulation. He had a guy guarding him almost 6 inches shorter than him. He shad 51 points, have the balls to take the ball to the rack instead of making a contested pass that he got lucky wasn’t a turnover.
 
npreston said:
Sorry buddy. You know I love ya, but that was absolutely not the right call.
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How do you figure? LBJ clearly still moving and slid right into Durant. I think the Thompson ejection was awful, but I thought the game other than that was called pretty fairly
 
JimboBBN said:
How do you figure? LBJ clearly still moving and slid right into Durant. I think the Thompson ejection was awful, but I thought the game other than that was called pretty fairly
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Ty Lue said it better than I can. I’m sure you heard the presser.

“They called a charge, right? And LeBron was clearly four feet outside the restricted area," Lue said. “So it doesn't make sense to go review something if -- the review is if he's on the line or if he's close to the charge circle, that's the review. He wasn't close.“
 
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npreston said:
Ty Lue said it better than I can. I’m sure you heard the presser.

“They called a charge, right? And LeBron was clearly four feet outside the restricted area," Lue said. “So it doesn't make sense to go review something if -- the review is if he's on the line or if he's close to the charge circle, that's the review. He wasn't close.“
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Lue wasn’t even close if he said LeBron was 4 feet out of the circle.
2 feet maybe.
 
lurkeraspect84 said:
But why not? Some say players today are much better.
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So the competition would be better then, too, huh? The whole argument is dumb, frankly.

uncfan in ky said:
There is absolutely no reason LeBron didn’t take that last shot in regulation. He had a guy guarding him almost 6 inches shorter than him. He shad 51 points, have the balls to take the ball to the rack instead of making a contested pass that he got lucky wasn’t a turnover.
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No. That wasn't a difficult pass for someone as skilled at passing as LeBron is; you're clearly reaching to make a point. He made the perfect pass to draw the foul. Buzzer beaters are, what, about a 35% proposition historically? It was LeBron having an all-time performance, so bump it up to 50% if you'd like (never mind that the whole GS team was keyed on LeBron), while George Hill is a 80% FT shooter. Odds are 64% he hits both (giving Cleveland the lead), which is > 50%. LeBron has about a 13% turnover rate on all plays, so let's be very generous call it even that the Cavs take the lead on either play. But Hill making only 1 FT is better than a missed shot, and his odds of making at least one are 96% (64% to make both, 32% to make one). So in 96% of scenarios - 15% turnover = 81% of the time where Cleveland has a positive outcome. 81% > 50%, right? (Is math still allowed or is this all about balls?) Factor in things like Hill making the shot (not easy, but probably cancels out the turnover rate) and Cleveland getting the offensive rebound and scoring (which might have happened sans JR Smith brainfart), and it's not really close.

But your take is pretty solid, I guess, because who cares about the right play when you can talk about a grown man's sack, Skip?
 
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It was a block, and I get the argument about why it shouldn't have even been reviewed, but it was the right call in the end. NBA replay is a hot mess, though. There were worse calls, like the one on Hill in the first minute of OT against Durant, but those weren't egregious.

The whole Thompson thing was a mess. Thompson's stunt is the type of crap that has no place in the game; it's similar to beaning a hitter for trotting. I've generally defended Draymond in the past, but he's a just a punk ass bitch. I applaud Kerr for his take on the BS machismo crap like what Thompson pulled, but have a talk with your instigator.
 
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Big_Blue79 said:
So the competition would be better then, too, huh? The whole argument is dumb, frankly.



No. That wasn't a difficult pass for someone as skilled at passing as LeBron is; you're clearly reaching to make a point. He made the perfect pass to draw the foul. Buzzer beaters are, what, about a 35% proposition historically? It was LeBron having an all-time performance, so bump it up to 50% if you'd like (never mind that the whole GS team was keyed on LeBron), while George Hill is a 80% FT shooter. Odds are 64% he hits both (giving Cleveland the lead), which is > 50%. LeBron has about a 13% turnover rate on all plays, so let's be very generous call it even that the Cavs take the lead on either play. But Hill making only 1 FT is better than a missed shot, and his odds of making at least one are 96% (64% to make both, 32% to make one). So in 96% of scenarios - 15% turnover = 81% of the time where Cleveland has a positive outcome. 81% > 50%, right? (Is math still allowed or is this all about balls?) Factor in things like Hill making the shot (not easy, but probably cancels out the turnover rate) and Cleveland getting the offensive rebound and scoring (which might have happened sans JR Smith brainfart), and it's not really close.

But your take is pretty solid, I guess, because who cares about the right play when you can talk about a grown man's sack, Skip?
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Make excuses all you want. He had little ass steph on him. He passed into traffic instead of taking a 6 foot 3 180 pound guard off the dribble. He was a beast till the shit got real.
 
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npreston said:
Ty Lue said it better than I can. I’m sure you heard the presser.

“They called a charge, right? And LeBron was clearly four feet outside the restricted area," Lue said. “So it doesn't make sense to go review something if -- the review is if he's on the line or if he's close to the charge circle, that's the review. He wasn't close.“
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You are allowed to change the call once you determine the defender wasn’t in the restricted circle, which James wasn’t. But it was clear to me that LeBron was not even close to being in the right position, which is why it was overturned. What is the point of having replay if we don’t want to get the call right? As bogus as it is to change a critical call like that I the finals, I have to think it was the right move.
 
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Demarcus Kidd-Miller said:
Who wins if Jordan had Wade, Bosh, and the rest of that Heat roster? Miami or Dirk?

That’s what I thought.
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What? I'd take Pippen and Rodman over Wade and Bosh 10/10. Pippen was a lockdown defender and Rodman was one of the most talented rebounders of all time. Then add a sniper ala BJ Armstrong or Steve Kerr on the wing. Maybe I'm older than you, but Pippen would have been THE man on any Jordan-less team.

Lebron has never been surrounded with that kind of talent, which is why he doesn't have nearly the trophy case.
 
JimboBBN said:
You are allowed to change the call once you determine the defender wasn’t in the restricted circle, which James wasn’t. But it was clear to me that LeBron was not even close to being in the right position, which is why it was overturned. What is the point of having replay if we don’t want to get the call right? As bogus as it is to change a critical call like that I the finals, I have to think it was the right move.
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It was clear to you, but the analysts and the former official all thought he had established a legal guarding position? Interesting
 
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LeBron's teammates were 3 of 17 on threes on passes received directly from him. The vast majority were wide open. Interesting fact.

Oh, wait, we're fact free here now. Sorry. Let's try again. ON SEVENTEEN OCCASIONS LEBRON DIDN'T HAVE THE BALLS TO SHOOT DESPITE OFTEN BEING GUARDED BY CURRY (SMALL BALLS) OR WEST (SLOW BALLS).
 
JimboBBN said:
Really good first quarter and a great start for Cleveland. No one else watching this?
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I caught a little.

JK of course. Yeah, I watched, but I'm with The Boy so I don't really post during the games.

Haven't read the comments yet. This should be interesting.
 
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JimboBBN said:
Refs got it right
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Thought it was close...as Javie pointed out. Left foot stayed still. Durant also initiated it.

That said, had they called it a block I would not have complained. Cannot believe they overturned it.

why couldn't they look at Hill foul early in OT and say maybe flagrant, then changed it to no foul (which it wasn't)?

There were far worse calls throughout the game than that one.
 
JimboBBN said:
The LBJ apologists are always the best. I mean it’s fugging game one for Christs sake. I’m sure if he had won we’d be talking about how he’s the greatest thing ever, but because he lost in OT to a great team he has no help. The logic is flawless
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How about not being a Lebron hater, as well, and just appreciate he just played one of the best playoff games of all time.
 
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Big_C_KU said:
LeBron was amazing. Might be the best game I've ever seen from him. Too bad in a loss.

JR Smith and Javale Mcgee would be an interesting battle to see who can out do the other.

Refs sucked hard those final 5 minutes and OT. I honestly lean toward block but that was fairly 50/50 call. Can't go back and change that close of a call.

The Warriors seemed like most of the game they were just running through the motions. Durant killed their momentum so many times with crappy 1-on-1 basketball. Also no effort on many rebounds. Would see 4 Warriors just standing around and watching 1 Cavs played go up over them for the rebound.

I'm calling it on game 2. Warriors play another disinterested game and the Cavs steal game 2.
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If they can come in mad instead of disheartened I think you could be right. Need to shoot it a little better from 3 and not lose their edge on the boards.
 
JimboBBN said:
The whole game. And had nothing but compliments to say about LBJ during the whole thing. I find it odd and kind of weird you guys need to come in this thread IMMEDIATELY after game one to defend a guy who’s gotten nothing but love. It’s like Jordan little man syndrome that never goes away.
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You ripped on him after the game for no apparent reason in a troll job. what did you expect?
 
imajericho said:
I have never seen worst officiating in the NBA in my entire life ever until tonight. The last 2 minutes of regulation was like the NBA jumped the shark and OT just sealed they went full WWE.

I wouldn't even blame Lebron if he boycotted the rest of the finals after what I saw.

First of all let's start with the block call. The only reason they were even allowed to review that was because they reviewed it on the basis of maybe he was in the restricted arc. However, once you review it for that reason you can change any part of the call. That is a completely ridiculous and asinine rule. You can't review that call otherwise.

Second of all, you do NOT have to have your feet set in the NBA. You have to just be in a legal guarding position. The call is pretty close. He was either sliding in front of Durant or he had just slid in front of Durant and was bracing for impact. The fact the call was called a charge on the court should have been the deciding factor as it was not clear cut a block to change that call. Even the guy they talked to said it wasn't reversible before they did it. That took the ball away from them up 2 and instead gave them 2 points at the line to tie it. That should have never have happened.

Then Cavs clearly strip the ball on replays. Called a foul. LeBron drives down the court and is clearly stripped by grabbing his arm, no foul call.

All of this happens within the last 2 minutes.

Start OT Hill clearly strips Durant all ball on replays. Called foul and gives Durant 2 FTs.

Then the end of the game, Thompson with 2.5 seconds left contests a shot that GS takes while they have alrdy won the game in a normal fashion with slight contact. He is tossed automatically to escalate a situation into an argument.

No ref in all of basketball should have made that snap ejection with 2.5 seconds left. Refs are supposed to not dictate games and surely not escalate situations like that. It was some of the poorest officiating I have ever seen in the NBA.

Just blows my mind.
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Right on those strip calls. why can't they use the same "logic" as the block/charge, go to the monitor and say they want to see if it's flagrant, then correctly change it to a nonfoul call?
 
toonces11 said:
How do you figure? If you are referencing the block, I think that was the right call. I don't know what the definition of legal guarding position is, but I doubt its sliding under an offensive player sideways while moving.
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It's not and good thing that wasn't what happened. Left foot didn't move, other than to turn to brace for contact.

Call could have gone either way.
 
npreston said:
Sorry buddy. You know I love ya, but that was absolutely not the right call.
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Even as a Cavs fan I thought it could go either way. Issue was clearly not inconclusive so should not have been changed.
 
JimboBBN said:
How do you figure? LBJ clearly still moving and slid right into Durant. I think the Thompson ejection was awful, but I thought the game other than that was called pretty fairly
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Good thing you don't have an agenda. Never mind an actual NBA ref said it should not be overturned.

And, no, I don't think it was clearly a charge. Could have gone either way.
 
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