That does make sense. Tracy McGrady was a top 5 talent too. But that ain’t the same as being a top 5 player.
NBA Bubble Thread
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That does make sense. Tracy McGrady was a top 5 talent too. But that ain’t the same as being a top 5 player.
Lol awful? That’d be a gladiator match between two of the top defensive teams in the league. Both have great offense too.
Jokic is better. Better passer, better efg%, better rebounding rate, and more durable. AD is a better defender but Jokic is a better all around player. That’s why AD didn’t do shit without Lebron.
And my statement was very clear. We can all see the posts in the thread.
You said possibly top 5. I said no way too 5. You then asked to have 5 better guys named, which multiple people have done. Not tough to follow.
1. Jokic is not better than AD
2. I never said name 5 better. I asked to share your top ten.
To be fair, Jokic lead the Nuggets to the 2nd seed last year and then the 3rd seed this year. AD lead the Pelicans to a 6 seed once.
An NCAA title doesn’t make him a better NBA player lol.
They also have both made first team all NBA, except Jokic more recently.
It's nice he has personalized salesmen.
pay zero attention to me being a hypocrite. tia.
All of these are career stats:
TS%
Jokic - 60.4%
AD - 58.8%
2pt%
Jokic - 57.6%
AD - 53.4%
Efg%
Jokic - 56.1%
AD - 52.9%
ORB%
Jokic - 9.8%
AD - 8.2%
DRB%
Jokic - 26.8%
Davis - 25%
Assist %
Jokic - 30.5%
AD - 11.3%
Steal %
Jokic - 1.9%
AD - 2.0%
Block %
Jokic - 2.0%
AD - 5.7%
Avg. Games played per season
Jokic - 76.2
AD - 66
So Jokic is better across the board offensively, the better rebounder on both ends, and significantly more durable. AD is the better shot blocker. Oh and Jokic is 2 years younger.
Why exactly is AD clearly the better player?
I thought he was terrible last night and pretty much the whole series. I think he's been exposed this series. he is not a superstar. Don't know if he'll ever be one. Right now he's a guy who can't get an open look vs the Raptors. They needed to give the ball to Kemba the whole 4th quarter and OTs because Tatum couldn't get a good shot vs any of the defenders Toronto threw at him. That's not a good sign for someone being hyped as a superstar on the way.
I’m somewhat in the middle on this discussion. The difference between them on defense is significantly bigger than the gap between them offensively (although Jokic is the best passing big man ever) , but individual defense matters a lot less than individual offense.
If I had to pick one player to build a championship team and have them be the best player, give me Jokic, but I think the Lakers are happy they have AD over Jokic.
Now that I will give you. AD is a much better fit with Lebron than Jokic. Lebron is an elite passer too, don’t need Jokic to fill that role.
Ultimately Jokic is younger and much more durable. Durability matters if you want to make consecutive deep runs in the playoffs. So he’s the guy I’d choose to build around between the two.
We already saw a team built around AD. It wasn’t pretty down in New Orleans.
He’s been average at best this series. But the dude is only 22. Not everyone can be Luka. Tatum has several years to keep improving rapidly.
Have you watched the NBA or are you a numbers tell the whole story kind of guy? Shooting is very close, Davis is clearly the better defender and athlete. No way you take Jokic over Davis if you're a GM right now.
Nah, Jokic is a better passer than Sabonis. His assist numbers as a big man are insane. He has already done enough to be a top of that list.
I watch the NBA nightly. Have for 7-8 years.
Yes, when on the court AD is a better athlete. And Westbrook is a better athlete than Steph or Luka too. Yet, Westbrook certainly isn’t a better player than either.
Those shooting percentages honestly aren’t THAT close. Jokic is 6% better on efg%. 2-3 extra points per 20 attempts, which is not insignificant in the playoffs. And of course Jokic’s playmaking ability is in another universe from AD.
Davis is the superior individual defender, yes. But that’s not as important for post players in today’s game. Guys need to be able to play within a team, switching D.
I can’t fault someone for taking AD over Jokic. However, folks thinking that it’s not even a conversation between Jokic and AD don’t sound very informed on the NBA. Jokic was 1st team All-NBA just last season. Clearly some folks are taking him.
He's a great player, but I don't watch him and think "man, you know, I would rank him above AD on my top 10 list."
I have these kind of talks all the time with friends who watch and follow the NBA closely. Never heard Jokic over AD before.
Me neither, but Nole makes a hell of a case.
He's not a top 10 player, as Jeff Goodman likes to loudly proclaim (probably top 25). But, his boxscore from last night included 29 points, 14 reb, 9 assists, 2 blocks, and 2 steals. Mostly a good night - just had some egregious turnovers.
2 OT's will help fill a box score.
When it came down to the last quarter and OT he was awful and couldn't create his own shot despite many attempts at it.
The hype train for Tatum needs to slow down a bit.
I agree that he's a bit over-hyped. I see him as someone who's perhaps the 20th best player or so. I haven't numerated a ranking on a spreadsheet or anything, but he's not flirting with a top-10 status this season. Perhaps in a season or two.
Serious question, how much do y’all watch the Nuggets? A buddy in my NBA fantasy league is a huge Nuggets fan and was touting Jokic as the next big thing in 2018. I didn’t believe it but started watching him more closely. Dude is legit.
Some of the passes he makes are simply incredible. They allow the Denver offense to be so versatile.
We are talking about a team that was 30-52 the year Jokic was drafted and 4 years later they were 54-28. With 23 year old Jokic, Murray (who I really like) and a bunch of role players.
I don't watch too much regular season ball but I've watched every playoff game for every team. So I guess close to an average fan, haha
He's a stud, no doubt. You certainly make a compelling argument for him being elite, well done.
what do his teammates have to do with his competition? I'd say you are better than this, but not sure you are.
Truth be told while a great player and in GOAT discussion, I can't say I like the guy.
come on....there are reasons to hate both. Jordan a prick, too.
My favorite might be the lie he made up about how he got food poisoning (allegedly). and he's now, what, 60+ and still holds ridiculous grudges?
Who said he didn't have talent around him...other than 2007 Finals team?Pippen was as good, or better. Probably better.....But there was Wade.....And Bosh....And Love.....And Kyrie...Jordan never had a big such as Love or Bosh......Or a b/c mate such as Kyrie...I mean MJ and the Bulls were dumping the ball to Will Perdue, Cartwright or Wennington..LBJ was dumping into Love, or Bosh...Or dishing off to Kyrie or DWade...I wish we'd quit pretending LeBron didn't have any talent around him. Dude played with a lot of All-Stars.
Its not Jordan's fault he stuck it out in Chicago.....
Team with Kyrie/Love were 7-11 vs. GS? Even though the 2 of them only faced GS together 12 times (they were 5-7)?
with ya there.....Love a better overall player than rodman.
