ADVERTISEMENT

NBA Bubble Thread

Because defense matters a lot. Yes, Love is the better shooter. But his defense is so poor, and Rodman’s defense is so excellent, that gap completely negates the scoring edge.

It’s the same reason why Kawhi is a much better player than Harden, even though Harden is a better scorer. It’s the same reason why Lou Williams isn’t considered a top 25 player.
Uh...That Kawhi fellow is also a stud offensive player. silly analogy.
 
He is in a lot of aspects. I think AD is a bit more dominant as far as strength and athleticism. However, Joker is a better passer and shooter.
While its closer than I originally thought, if you are a GM building for the future, do you take a 26 year old Davis or 24 year old Jokic?
 
Are you a Laker fan or something? Part of the reason they finally started hitting their shots is because Houston is leaving many of them open. The Clippers have the length and overall perimeter defense to keep them from hitting the 3 consistently. Clippers are finally healthy and beginning to gel. I would say it's about s good 65% or better of them beating the Lakers in a 7 game series. It's going to take more than just Lebron and Davis to beat them and they just don't have anyone else consistent enough to do it.
guessing that is why he said IF they keep shooting like this....not that they can/will.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Big ol arms
So like I said, not top 5.

Being a top 5 player means you can elevate those around you to a level that most would consider overachieving. AD made the playoffs 2 out of 7 years in New Orleans. He’s not a top 5 player.
Not sure I disagree (he's close), but by your 'logic" is Giannis top 3? Went out earlier than expected 2 years in a row.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ticket2ride04
Jokic is better. Better passer, better efg%, better rebounding rate, and more durable. AD is a better defender but Jokic is a better all around player. That’s why AD didn’t do shit without Lebron.

And my statement was very clear. We can all see the posts in the thread.

You said possibly top 5. I said no way too 5. You then asked to have 5 better guys named, which multiple people have done. Not tough to follow.
Yet you are all about defense when it comes to Rodman vs. Love.

FTR, I don't necessarily disagree Jokic better but by your own "logic" about D you should be picking AD...and unlike Rodman, AD is exceptional on offense, too.

try and be consistent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ticket2ride04
To be fair, Jokic lead the Nuggets to the 2nd seed last year and then the 3rd seed this year. AD lead the Pelicans to a 6 seed once.
good point....and not like davis had no talent on that team and Nuggets are full of all stars.
 
While its closer than I originally thought, if you are a GM building for the future, do you take a 26 year old Davis or 24 year old Jokic?
I think it depends really but probably AD (if he stays healthy..which hasn’t been a problem this year) but Jokic is damn good and he’s only getting better. He’s pretty consistent too, even when Murray’s game is off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JimboBBN
All of these are career stats:

TS%
Jokic - 60.4%
AD - 58.8%

2pt%
Jokic - 57.6%
AD - 53.4%

Efg%
Jokic - 56.1%
AD - 52.9%

ORB%
Jokic - 9.8%
AD - 8.2%

DRB%
Jokic - 26.8%
Davis - 25%

Assist %
Jokic - 30.5%
AD - 11.3%

Steal %
Jokic - 1.9%
AD - 2.0%

Block %
Jokic - 2.0%
AD - 5.7%

Avg. Games played per season
Jokic - 76.2
AD - 66

So Jokic is better across the board offensively, the better rebounder on both ends, and significantly more durable. AD is the better shot blocker. Oh and Jokic is 2 years younger.

Why exactly is AD clearly the better player?
no disagreement....but you are fighting with yourself based on your own choosing of Rodman over Love and factoring defense so much into the choice.
 
Because defense matters a lot. Yes, Love is the better shooter. But his defense is so poor, and Rodman’s defense is so excellent, that gap completely negates the scoring edge.

It’s the same reason why Kawhi is a much better player than Harden, even though Harden is a better scorer. It’s the same reason why Lou Williams isn’t considered a top 25 player.
Why? I mean not only is Love a better shooter----he's a better scorer as well...And a better passer. Rodman's better at rebounding and defense.

At worse, a "push".
 
Why? I mean not only is Love a better shooter----he's a better scorer as well...And a better passer. Rodman's better at rebounding and defense.

At worse, a "push".
And not like Love is not also an exceptional rebounder.
 
It's football, so hell yes.

Have to admit I'm less excited than usual. Guessing because no preseason and mostly no college games yet.

Curious to see how NFL looks with no fans.
Isn't Kansas City doing like 16000 fans for games? Help me out @MrBaracus

I'm very excited for tonight, but I kinda agree on the less excited part. My guess would be because of the lack of build up there usually is between camp and preseason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dtgold88
This ^^^.

Lebron, Giannis, Kawhi, Steph, Luka, Jokic, Embiid, and Harden are all better. Dame is arguably in the conversation too. Bam and Jayson Tatum aren’t yet but they are certainly improving rapidly. And KD obviously would be considered better if we knew how he is post Achilles injury.

AD played with New Orleans for 7 years and made the playoffs twice. I don’t care who else is on the team, “top 5” players elevate the level of play to at least make the playoffs more often than not. We’ve seen that happen time and time again. Look at Dame, he’s got Portland to the playoffs like 6 years in a row.

AD has only played more than 68 games in a season twice. Durability is part of being a top 5 player.
Embiid? Naaah. I'd take AD over Luka and Jokic----Defense is why. Not only that, I mean AD is a ****ing 6'6" dude in a 7-foot body....Harden is a better scorer, obviously. AD IMO is better overall---Defense.

My Top would be LeBron, Giannis, Steph, AD and Kawhi; KD if healthy.
 
Last edited:
Embiid? Naaah. I'd take AD over Luka and Jokic----Defense is why. Not only that, I mean AD is a ****ing 6'6" dude in a 7-foot body....Harden is a better scorer, obviously. AD IMO is better overall---Defense.

My Top would be LeBron, Giannis, Steph, AD and Luka; KD if healthy.
Kawhi not in your top 5?
 
Embiid? Naaah. I'd take AD over Luka and Jokic----Defense is why. Not only that, I mean AD is a ****ing 6'6" dude in a 7-foot body....Harden is a better scorer, obviously. AD IMO is better overall---Defense.

My Top would be LeBron, Giannis, Steph, AD and Luka; KD if healthy.
No Kawhi?
 
Team with Kyrie/Love were 7-11 vs. GS? Even though the 2 of them only faced GS together 12 times (they were 5-7)?
Forgot Kyrie wasn't there in 2018.....Still, had Love and or Irving in all four Finals.
 
Isn't Kansas City doing like 16000 fans for games? Help me out @MrBaracus

I'm very excited for tonight, but I kinda agree on the less excited part. My guess would be because of the lack of build up there usually is between camp and preseason.

Yep. 16000 is what I read.
 
Not sure I disagree (he's close), but by your 'logic" is Giannis top 3? Went out earlier than expected 2 years in a row.

Honestly, this year is causing me to reevaluate my position on Freak. At the very least I have to drop him out of the “best player in the league” conversation.

His overall statistical dominance and MVP award keep him above a guy like AD for now. But he’s absolutely starting to fall into the “can he elevate his team come playoff time” conversation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dtgold88
Honestly, this year is causing me to reevaluate my position on Freak. At the very least I have to drop him out of the “best player in the league” conversation.

His overall statistical dominance and MVP award keep him above a guy like AD for now. But he’s absolutely starting to fall into the “can he elevate his team come playoff time” conversation.
What players fall into your ‘elevate a team’ category?
 
Yet you are all about defense when it comes to Rodman vs. Love.

FTR, I don't necessarily disagree Jokic better but by your own "logic" about D you should be picking AD...and unlike Rodman, AD is exceptional on offense, too.

try and be consistent.

I can understand that it appears inconsistent if read through quickly. But in reality it’s not. I said Rodman was SO much better if a defender than Love that it makes up for the offensive shortcomings.

Love is a terrible defender. Jokic is not terrible. He’s not great but not terrible. Meanwhile, Rodman was an all time elite defender. 8x All Defensive team and 7x rebounding champ. That’s freaking dominant.

So the gap between Rodman and Love (a below average defender) defensively is greater than the gap between AD and Jokic defensively. It’s a nuanced difference, but a difference nonetheless.
 
While its closer than I originally thought, if you are a GM building for the future, do you take a 26 year old Davis or 24 year old Jokic?

Taking the younger, more durable player seems like a pretty straightforward decision.

AD has 4 years until he turns 30 and the odds of his body beginning to break down go up. Jokic has 6. Which one would you sign to a 5-6 year max contract?
 
  • Like
Reactions: dtgold88
What players fall into your ‘elevate a team’ category?

LeBron obviously. Kawhi. Steph Curry. Luka. Jokic. Honestly, watching the Heat this year and the Bulls the last couple years, we probably have to include Jimmy Buckets at this point.

Freak and Dame, but not quite as much as the ones above. Booker is quickly approaching this conversation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dtgold88
LeBron obviously. Kawhi. Steph Curry. Luka. Jokic. Honestly, watching the Heat this year and the Bulls the last couple years, we probably have to include Jimmy Buckets at this point.

Freak and Dame, but not quite as much as the ones above. Booker is quickly approaching this conversation.
Jokic is getting booty blasted by LAC
 
Taking the younger, more durable player seems like a pretty straightforward decision.

AD has 4 years until he turns 30 and the odds of his body beginning to break down go up. Jokic has 6. Which one would you sign to a 5-6 year max contract?
I would still take AD. 2 years isn’t much
 
What’s your point?

Jokic took a 30 win team into a 54 win team. “Elevate your team” doesn’t mean “defeat the best team in the league that also has a top 2 player in the league.”
SO does that mean Davis gets a pass?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ticket2ride04
ADVERTISEMENT