NBA Bubble Thread

[IUfanBorden]

Magic was about to turn 32. Big game was 30. Perkins would turn 30 two days after the finals. Not exactly spring chickens. Still not close to more talent than MJ had. And that’s really the only team you have to argue at this point. The others are straight laughable.

Magic was coming off an MVP season in 90...James Worthy was an All-Star in 91....and again in 92.. And averaged a career best 21.4ppg in 91...Perkins was only in his 7th season...

The others are laughable? Are you trolling? I hope so. If not, your basketball knowledge is , well.....might wanna stick with golf.

Bulls: Blazers:

Paxson Porter
MJ Drexler
Pippen Kersey
Grant WIlliams-----PUSH.
Cartwright Duckworth

Benches:

Armstrong Ainge
S.WIlliams Cliff Robinson
Levingston

Its not as "laughable" as you think....Aside from MJ and Pippen, the Blazers were just as good, if not better,every where else.

 

[829305]

Magic was coming off an MVP season in 90...James Worthy was an All-Star in 91....and again in 92.. And averaged a career best 21.4ppg in 91...Perkins was only in his 7th season...

The others are laughable? Are you trolling? I hope so. If not, your basketball knowledge is , well.....might wanna stick with golf.

Bulls: Blazers:

Paxson Porter
MJ Drexler
Pippen Kersey
Grant WIlliams-----PUSH.
Cartwright Duckworth

Benches:

Armstrong Ainge
S.WIlliams Cliff Robinson
Levingston

Its not as "laughable" as you think....Aside from MJ and Pippen, the Blazers were just as good, if not better,every where else.

It’s laughable. But I’m not willing to try any longer. You win! Prize should be in the mail soon.

 

[Villian07]

I’d say if you can throw in the “besides Jordan and pippen” then every dam team in the league had more talent.

Not sure it works like that.

 

[IUfanBorden]

It’s laughable. But I’m not willing to try any longer. You win! Prize should be in the mail soon.

Sure there buddy....If you dont think the Blazers roster, outside of MJ and Pippen, was comparable, if not better, you need to stick to golf...

Porter>>Paxson
Cliff Robinson>>>better than anyone off Bulls bench
Duckworth and or Williams>>>.Cartwright

The ONLY sizeable advantage for the Bulls was Jordan and Pippen.

But hey, its your agenda...., errr....story. Tell it like ya want.

 

[Villian07]

Again outside of Jordan and Pippen who didn’t have more talent than the bulls role players basically plus a couple above avg players like grant, kucoc, Rodman.

So the team that made the NBA finals out of the west had more talent than grant/Perdue/Cartwright/Paxson or Rodman/kucoc/longley/Kerr. You don’t say.

Without Jordan and Pippen those bulls rosters would have won more number 1 picks than playoff appearances.

And “the ONLY sizable advantage the bulls had was Jordan and Pippen.” Yea no sh**, you could say that about every single game they ever played. I’d say having who would go on the become the goat and another top 50 HOF, both in their prime is a pretty damned significant advantage.

 

[GE Nole]

Denver showed they have no intention of backing down. We’ve got a series now.

Toronto showing the Celtics they have the fight of a champion.

We will see if the Lakers have any answer for Harden and the Rockets today. PJ Tucker was dominant defensively in game 1...can he do it again?

 

[IUfanBorden]

Again outside of Jordan and Pippen who didn’t have more talent than the bulls role players basically plus a couple above avg players like grant, kucoc, Rodman.

So the team that made the NBA finals out of the west had more talent than grant/Perdue/Cartwright/Paxson or Rodman/kucoc/longley/Kerr. You don’t say.

Without Jordan and Pippen those bulls rosters would have won more number 1 picks than playoff appearances.

And “the ONLY sizable advantage the bulls had was Jordan and Pippen.” Yea no sh**, you could say that about every single game they ever played. I’d say having who would go on the become the goat and another top 50 HOF, both in their prime is a pretty damned significant advantage.

I didn't realize when it was said "more talent", that we were just talking about MJ and Pippen...My mistake.Winking

 

[dtgold88]

LeBron nuthuggers are comical.

If you say so, but not on MJ fanboy level.....I mean, they lose their shit if you just say Lebron is in the conversation for GOAT, it's close, and Lebron could pass him up.

 

[dtgold88]

Why am I triggered? Cannot someone just disagree with someone else's actions, views, etc, etc??? I think LBJ has said a lot of ignorant things, without thinking...And many agree with me; Its why he has been called out. I do not think LeBron is intelligent enough to speak on some of the matters he does...

What has LeBron done for the black community? Asides from spewing some ignorant shit, and lying about his house being vandalized?

Also, I never said MJ was a great person....or a better person than LBJ. I didn't realize we were discussing this....I thought we were talking hoops, etc, etc...

weird you think I'm a Lebron nuthugger.....but agree with all of this. while Lebron might be a better human than MJ I have never liked him. Too much of a narcissistic drama queen for me. and, yes, IMO much of what he has going on is fake outrage.

But I appreciate he helped my team win a title I never thought I'd see.

 

[dtgold88]

Yea man probably got rings with 55 diamonds on it for that one. That’s got to be a record, as much as you are enamored with it and bring it up.

It's brought up because it's...you know....relevant. Feel free to bring up MJ's best season without Pippen if you'd like.

 

[dtgold88]

I can’t really speak for dude, but hell I’ll try anyways.

If you have a problem with any athletes BLM stance than you have probably quit watching sports bc everyone has the same stance.

Im no fan of lebron either, and I’ve felt that way long before the last six months. I don’t think he is some terrible person, but that doesn’t mean I have to be a fanboy.

That is an issue I have with him......too many are way too critical of him or are fanboys. Not enough in between.

While I appreciate his game and think he's in the GOAT conversation, I've never liked the guy. Even when he was here.

 

[dtgold88]

Yea I agree. I basically said the same thing earlier in the thread regarding Lebron probably being the better overall basketball player (rebounding, passing, blocking shots,) but Jordan had that unmatched will to win (which oddly enough sparked dudes “where was his will to win without pippen and 55 wins spital)

I wasn’t a Jordan fan either, I’m just calling it like I’m seeing it. I don’t really have an NBA team. I just like seeing some variety though and I really hate knowing who is gonna be in the finals before the season even starts like it was with GS-CLEVELAND a few years in a row before lebron left for LA.

This dude actually wondered where his will to win was pre-Pippen. Did he forget how important winning was? Has he lost his will to win since he left Chicago or on the baseball diamond?

He won because he was a pretty good basketball player. Not a knock on him.

 

[IUfanBorden]

weird you think I'm a Lebron nuthugger.....but agree with all of this. while Lebron might be a better human than MJ I have never liked him. Too much of a narcissistic drama queen for me. and, yes, IMO much of what he has going on is fake outrage.

But I appreciate he helped my team win a title I never thought I'd see.

Most today that try to diminish MJ, are normally LBJ, "nuthuggers". My apologies..

 

[dtgold88]

Denver showed they have no intention of backing down. We’ve got a series now.

Toronto showing the Celtics they have the fight of a champion.

We will see if the Lakers have any answer for Harden and the Rockets today. PJ Tucker was dominant defensively in game 1...can he do it again?

Even though maybe not the best matchup for them hard to believe maybe the Miami/Milwaukee matchup is the one that might not be much of a series.

 

[dtgold88]

Most today that try to diminish MJ, are normally LBJ, "nuthuggers". My apologies..

agree...but that does go both ways as there are many MJ fanboys.

all good. what fun would these forums be if we all agreed?

 

[dtgold88]

I’d say if you can throw in the “besides Jordan and pippen” then every dam team in the league had more talent.

Not sure it works like that.

Not like that Rodman fellow was not a HOFer and pretty sure Grant was an all star. Kukoc I don't think made an AS team, but was pretty good and an excellent fit on that team along with Harper.

 

[Villian07]

I didn't realize when it was said "more talent", that we were just talking about MJ and Pippen...My mistake.Winking

I don’t think anyone was. But you have to look at the rosters as a whole. Of course those teams had more talent than the bulls if you take out Mj and Scottie. What team wouldn’t.

 

[dtgold88]

Sure there buddy....If you dont think the Blazers roster, outside of MJ and Pippen, was comparable, if not better, you need to stick to golf...

Porter>>Paxson
Cliff Robinson>>>better than anyone off Bulls bench
Duckworth and or Williams>>>.Cartwright

The ONLY sizeable advantage for the Bulls was Jordan and Pippen.

But hey, its your agenda...., errr....story. Tell it like ya want.

Might have been comparable...but then we have to remember Pippen was on the Bulls and not "outside of". Can't say I have it memorized which Bulls team was which, but wouldn't Grant have been on that team, too?

 

[Villian07]

Not like that Rodman fellow was not a HOFer and pretty sure Grant was an all star. Kukoc I don't think made an AS team, but was pretty good and an excellent fit on that team along with Harper.

Ok definitely undersold Rodman. But still those teams without Jordan and pippen would have been terrible. Grant and Rodman never played together so you can’t lump the rosters of both three peats together to form a super roster, even still a team with Rodman as their best player, Grant, kucoc, harper, Kerr, Paxson hell all of em from both 3 peats, they’d be hard pressed to make the playoffs without Scottie or MJ?

 

[IUfanBorden]

This dude actually wondered where his will to win was pre-Pippen. Did he forget how important winning was? Has he lost his will to win since he left Chicago or on the baseball diamond?

He won because he was a pretty good basketball player. Not a knock on him.

Are you being obtuse on purpose? Jordan played with the danger of ending his career, simply b/c he could not accept "tanking". I mean if thats not showing "a will to win", I dunno what is....

When he played at Washington, that team went from winning 18 games, to winning 37.

As a baseball player...Dude was renowned as a tireless worker....always striving to get better. He a pale .202in 147 games with the Barons..But in the AZ Fall league, dude hit .317in his first 50 AB's----finishing at .252

Coaches/managers/players at that level were taken aback at his work ethic...His desire to get better. As one minor-leaguer said---"Jordan didn't want to win, he HAD to win"

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Jordan's absolute ruthless passion and desire to win is something I've not seen since him. Maybe you just had to live through it.

 

[IUfanBorden]

I don’t think anyone was. But you have to look at the rosters as a whole. Of course those teams had more talent than the bulls if you take out Mj and Scottie. What team wouldn’t.

Ahhh, I see...So what does that say for a statement of--

"Bulls never beat a team with more talent"? Shouldn't it have been, "Bulls never beat anyone that had anyone that was better than MJ and Scottie"?

I mean the statement of "Bulls never beating anyone, with OVERALL more talent/bench, etc, etc...is false. I responded to that statement, showing the entire rosters of the Bulls,and those they played.

I mean shit, if this is the game we are playing, I can say LeBron never beat a team with more talent, b/c, well, of LeBron...And Bosh....And Wade.....

Right?

 

[dtgold88]

Ok definitely undersold Rodman. But still those teams without Jordan and pippen would have been terrible. Grant and Rodman never played together so you can’t lump the rosters of both three peats together to form a super roster, even still a team with Rodman as their best player, Grant, kucoc, harper, Kerr, Paxson hell all of em from both 3 peats, they’d be hard pressed to make the playoffs without Scottie or MJ?

well of course they'd be terrible without MJ/Pippen....but they were very good with no MJ.

How many games do you think the 2007 Cavs win without Lebron? The 2018 team?

 

[IUfanBorden]

Jordan's absolute ruthless passion and desire to win is something I've not seen since him. Maybe you just had to live through it.

So true....LeBron is easily one of the Top 5 dudes to ever play the game...Easily. As good of an overall player as I have seen. His size, and his abilities at his size is unreal.

BUT........Jordan had that, AND----he was simply cold-****ing blooded. A ****ing assassin..

 

[dtgold88]

Are you being obtuse on purpose? Jordan played with the danger of ending his career, simply b/c he could not accept "tanking". I mean if thats not showing "a will to win", I dunno what is....

When he played at Washington, that team went from winning 18 games, to winning 37.

As a baseball player...Dude was renowned as a tireless worker....always striving to get better. He a pale .202in 147 games with the Barons..But in the AZ Fall league, dude hit .317in his first 50 AB's----finishing at .252

Coaches/managers/players at that level were taken aback at his work ethic...His desire to get better. As one minor-leaguer said---"Jordan didn't want to win, he HAD to win"

I laugh every time you go the namecalling route when it applies more to you. so laughing again.

Never said he was not a great player nor that teams will win more with his presence. But I guess he forgot how badly he wanted to win pre Pippen, in baseball or as an Exec. That or he just wasn't very good at it...you can choose.

 

[dtgold88]

So true....LeBron is easily one of the Top 5 dudes to ever play the game...Easily. As good of an overall player as I have seen. His size, and his abilities at his size is unreal.

BUT........Jordan had that, AND----he was simply cold-****ing blooded. A ****ing assassin..

Or he was just really, really good.

 

[Villian07]

It's brought up because it's...you know....relevant. Feel free to bring up MJ's best season without Pippen if you'd like.

Its just not the same comparison. Jordan was drafted third overall, so needless to say the bulls team he can into was pretty terrible. And he got 4 years before pip was drafted, one in which he was injured for part, to turn Chicago into a champion, or win 55 games since that’s apparently the same some how.

Scotties teams without MJ were still established champions. Plus He had another HOF guy in Rodman. And he wasn’t in the first few years of his career.

And winning 55 games just doesn’t mean anything. It’s what happens in the playoffs. And I don’t even remember how far the bulls made it, I know they didn’t win the east so what exactly did Scottie win? He won the regular season? That’s not a thing

 

[IUfanBorden]

well of course they'd be terrible without MJ/Pippen....but they were very good with no MJ.

How many games do you think the 2007 Cavs win without Lebron? The 2018 team?

See, this is what I mean...Do you dislike MJ that much? You have done nothing but try and diminish the dude....You act as if MJ was the only NBA great, to play alongside other NBA greats....

Why?

Lets ask this---When teamed with Pippen---How many NBA Finals did the Bulls/MJ lose?
Now, how many NBA Finals did LBJ lose, when teamed with Chris Bosh, DWade?

Bulls were good with no MJ...But that team Bulls team also had 3 NBA All-Stars on it: Pippen(starter), BJ Armstrong(Starter) and Horace Grant...Not to mention a surging Toni Kukoc(15ppg). So of course they were good.....And had Pippen not been a whiny vagina, they may have gotten to the Finals.

I just get this from ya fella...

 

[GE Nole]

Even though maybe not the best matchup for them hard to believe maybe the Miami/Milwaukee matchup is the one that might not be much of a series.

Milwaukee is a bunch of soft dudes who have checked out. When George Hill said “we should have never come to this stupid place” a couple weeks ago, that was a bad bad sign.

 

[Villian07]

Ahhh, I see...So what does that say for a statement of--

"Bulls never beat a team with more talent"? Shouldn't it have been, "Bulls never beat anyone that had anyone that was better than MJ and Scottie"?

I mean the statement of "Bulls never beating anyone, with OVERALL more talent/bench, etc, etc...is false. I responded to that statement, showing the entire rosters of the Bulls,and those they played.

I mean shit, if this is the game we are playing, I can say LeBron never beat a team with more talent, b/c, well, of LeBron...And Bosh....And Wade.....

Right?

Sure. Only 5 on the court at a time and when you’ve got the best 2, one who is the best in the world if not ever, with a significant gap between him and number 2. And another top 50 all time.

I see what your saying but imo the talent advantage of having Jordan and pippen >>>> the talent advantages of players 3-10 bc of how damned good MJ and Scottie were. Jordan was the best player ever and Scottie was amazing as well.

 

[dtgold88]

Its just not the same comparison. Jordan was drafted third overall, so needless to say the bulls team he can into was pretty terrible. And he got 4 years before pip was drafted, one in which he was injured for part, to turn Chicago into a champion, or win 55 games since that’s apparently the same some how.

Scotties teams without MJ were still established champions. Plus He had another HOF guy in Rodman. And he wasn’t in the first few years of his career.

And winning 55 games just doesn’t mean anything. It’s what happens in the playoffs. And I don’t even remember how far the bulls made it, I know they didn’t win the east so what exactly did Scottie win? He won the regular season? That’s not a thing

It doesn't mean much as far as titles, but when Lebron led teams here fall off the map after he leaves (then win a title when he returns) and MJ led teams go to conference semis without him it matters some.

 

[dtgold88]

See, this is what I mean...Do you dislike MJ that much? You have done nothing but try and diminish the dude....You act as if MJ was the only NBA great, to play alongside other NBA greats....

Why?

Lets ask this---When teamed with Pippen---How many NBA Finals did the Bulls/MJ lose?
Now, how many NBA Finals did LBJ lose, when teamed with Chris Bosh, DWade?

Bulls were good with no MJ...But that team Bulls team also had 3 NBA All-Stars on it: Pippen(starter), BJ Armstrong(Starter) and Horace Grant...Not to mention a surging Toni Kukoc(15ppg). So of course they were good.....And had Pippen not been a whiny vagina, they may have gotten to the Finals.

I just get this from ya fella...

Excellent deflection, but the question was how many games do you think the 2007 or 2018 Cavs win without Lebron?

"There are so many traits but the most distinguishable is that irrational people get royally pissed off if you ask them questions that even remotely, vaguely, subtly oppose what they’re saying." "Irrational people don’t want to have conversations. They only want to talk. They don’t listen to anyone else and they sure don’t appreciate being asked questions. They take it as a personal offense.

 

[Villian07]

I just now realized I’m somehow on both sides of the argument lmao

 

[IUfanBorden]

Excellent deflection, but the question was how many games do you think the 2007 or 2018 Cavs win without Lebron?

"There are so many traits but the most distinguishable is that irrational people get royally pissed off if you ask them questions that even remotely, vaguely, subtly oppose what they’re saying." "Irrational people don’t want to have conversations. They only want to talk. They don’t listen to anyone else and they sure don’t appreciate being asked questions. They take it as a personal offense.

What does it matter(How many games the Cavs would have won)? Dude its obvious you have an agenda with MJ....So, I mean, why beat around the bush? Just say it.

And BTW, you described yourself to a "T"...(see the BOLD)....

 

[IUfanBorden]

I just now realized I’m somehow on both sides of the argument lmao

To an extent, I am too...Do I think Jordan wins 6 NBA Titles, w/o Pippen? No....Do I think the fact he did, somehow diminishes his legacy? Nope.

Same with LBJ...Dude is great...Do I think he has 3 titles if not for Chirs Bosh, Wade, Kyrie, or Chris Love? Nope. Do I think the fact he has those 3 titles b/c of those guys, diminishes his legacy? Nope...

Just like I don't think the fact that Magic had Kareem and Worthy taints his legacy...Or that Bird had McHale and Parrish....Or in order for Durant to seemingly win a title, he had to chamge his address to Oracle Arena...

Greatness is greatness....That simple.

And IMO, MJ is the GOAT. Not b/c of the 6 titles(that helps)...But how he changed the game...how he shaped the NBA....His mentality...Ruthless....He was the ultimate Alpha..There was NO doubt who the boss was...I don't think LBJ has that...Not to the level of MJ, anyways..I mean tell me a time where MJ was accused of quitting on his team, in a series---Ya know, the Finals????

Now,what about LBJ?

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/lebron-james-2011-finals-stats-miami-heat-
dallas-mavericks-nba-news-eddie-house/8isbyhljod3w1prqp4g1gknwi

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/06...s-says-shoot-from-the-lip-ex-warriors-player/

https://247sports.com/nba/cleveland...bron-james-nba-finals-hand-injury--119046837/

Final season with the Heat, LeBron James, the Heat organization believed, knew he was leaving and checked out on the Finals. It looked like he was trying. The stat sheet looked like he was trying. But the Miami Heat believed that he checked out and was no longer trying.”

Ya see, among other things, this is what separates MJ from LBJ...

 

[IUfanBorden]

It doesn't mean much as far as titles, but when Lebron led teams here fall off the map after he leaves (then win a title when he returns) and MJ led teams go to conference semis without him it matters some.

Not really...It just shows MJ' less teams were better, and more balanced...And then when you added MJ----Well, they won the NBA title..There is no debating that Jordan played on better teams, for the most part---Heat teams were really, really good.

Both are great...Both can be debated....I just think you are trying waaaaaaay to hard to discredit Jordan.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

What was the users name who had shrine to LBJ? Snarks or something like that?

 

[dtgold88]

What does it matter(How many games the Cavs would have won)? Dude its obvious you have an agenda with MJ....So, I mean, why beat around the bush? Just say it.

And BTW, you described yourself to a "T"...(see the BOLD)....

you are the one who is too spooked to answer a pretty cimple question...and you still are. Deflect away.

You miss where I said I do not like Lebron? so do I have an agenda against both?

 

[dtgold88]

Not really...It just shows MJ' less teams were better, and more balanced...And then when you added MJ----Well, they won the NBA title..There is no debating that Jordan played on better teams, for the most part---Heat teams were really, really good.

Both are great...Both can be debated....I just think you are trying waaaaaaay to hard to discredit Jordan.

I said MJ probably still the GOAT. Because I wont join the MJ fanboy group does not mean I am discrediting him.

 

[IUfanBorden]

you are the one who is too spooked to answer a pretty cimple question...and you still are. Deflect away.

You miss where I said I do not like Lebron? so do I have an agenda against both?

What relevance does the question have? What does it prove---that the 2007 Cavs would have been bad(w/o LBJ)? Ok, Great. Fine---Nice detective work. Again, what does that even mean? What relevance is there?

I have no clue how many the 2007 Cavs would have won---I'd say certainly not the 50 they did with LeBron. I mean that team, though not full of studs, wasn't short of talented dudes...But, who knows...

I must have missed the part with saying you didn't like LBJ....Weird though. Through all the post, the discussion---you haven't once questioned a single accomplishment about LBJ...MOF,, you have beaten around the bush, TBH, in methodically comparing MJ to LBJ, w/o doing so directly...Its all been indirectly...Smooth....Smooth...SMooth.