NBA Bubble Thread
- Thread starter JimboBBN
- Start date
Just an FYI, even if you want to go by this list MJ had the 14th best shooter ever helping him out.
Korver is a much better shooter than Kerr. Jason Kapono averaged 43% from 3. Is he elite? Tim Legler?
Like others said, elite shooter, but not an elite player. Creating your own shot doesn't exactly hit the efficiency metrics.. Your shooting percentage is going way, way down if you're taking a shot off the dribble.
You need a guy like Kerr on your team to stretch the defense. Most teams are reliant on 2-3 ball-dominant players. You have a couple bigs who man the post, and everyone else is mostly utilized as a shooter. And guess what? No one shot better than Kerr. I'd absolutely want to have a Kerr in his prime on my team.
We’ll find out tonight lol. But both are elite asf. They’re gonna own the west for years to come. Which other players in their early 20s are putting up those numbers? Shit is wild.
Way to dodge the question. The question was is Korver elite?
How is he "a much better shooter than Kerr"? I'm not saying he isn't better, but much better?
since I'm rational I'll answer your questions....yes and yes.
Utah but wouldn’t mind either advancing honestly. It’s been the best series of the playoffs.
I’d lean towards Korver being great to elite. He did a little but more. I just can’t consider Kerr elite. He’s been romanticized because of his time with the Bulls.
Or maybe you are downgrading him because of his time with the Bulls? shot 47, 51, 45 and 43% from 3 in his seasons BEFORE joining the Bulls.
why is Korver elite and not Kerr?
You said "he did a little bit more".....guess I was wondering what you meant by that when it comes to shooting.
FYI, I don't think nuts to think Korver was a little better. But, like Kerr, not like he did anything other than shoot.
I'd say both. seems like the safest bet. The real question is which support players are going to have big games?
I'm personally not putting any stock in the numbers being put up in the bubble. Both Mitchell and Murray need to prove they can shoot like this with 20,000 screaming fans and inside large arenas with all sorts of background action going on behind the basket.
every stat from this bubble should have a big fat asterisk next to it.
Eh, idk about that. Mitchell averaged 24/4/4 regular season before Covid, on 45% fg and 37% 3pfg. Sure, the stats might seem inflated..but both Mitchell and Murray would be going off even if there were fans in the stands imo. The break helped both of them clearly. By post season play, points and shooting guards are pretty spent, but these guys look energized and ready to go. In years going forward, I see this as only a way for them to keep improving. I stand by my statement. An asterisk beside their stats for this year wouldn’t be fair either considering the circumstances. If that were the case, why isn’t every guard in the playoffs putting up those numbers? I say we appreciate what we’re watching here. It’s elite play from two up and coming guards who will eventually be top 10 players.
For Utah, imo it all falls on Clarkson and Gobert. Denver needs a big game from Jokic (who’s been consistent) and MPJ. Gary Harris is back too which helps.
A lot of people in the bubble are putting up numbers. If either Mitchell or Murray duplicate the numbers in the bubble when they get out of the bubble I'll remove the asterisk by their name. Until then, they get a big fat asterisk from me.
Butler had a career high last night.
Where you really notice it is with the role players. Lots of guys shooting above their pay grade in the bubble.
Even CP3 finally had a clutch shooting game in the playoffs.
Shooting in an empty gym is easy for these guys...especially when no is playing defense like the Utah and Denver series.
Heavily disagree. If you don’t think defense is being played, perhaps you’re watching a different game.
Defense is amped up for the playoffs every year. This year is no different. If you think this is bad defense, you've never watched a regular season game.
There's little to no defense being played on the perimeter in the Denver-Utah series.
Or, alternatively, it's so damn easy to shoot in the bubble that it counter acts any attempts at heightened playoff defense.
Take your pick.
They’re just getting up ridiculous shots. It’s impressive, and defense is being played. I’ll say it again, I don’t know what game you’re watching.
I mentioned that "Pippen" fellow. In every single post. Point is, the Lakers, Blazers and Suns, from top to bottom, had just as much talent, if not more...And I havent even gotten to the Sonics----who had Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp , Detlef Schrempf, Sam Perkins, Nate McMillian, Ervin Johnson.....
Jazz had Stockton, Malone, Russell and Hornacek...
To say you are not sure if MJ ever beat a team in the Finals with more talent, is well, an understatement to say the least...Just so happens, they(He) did. TBH, almost every team the Bulls beat, were just as balanced , if not more..Thing is....
Jordan was just that damn good during that span of his career. When MJ started passing and trusting his teammates....It was check fuking mate.
You do know Jordans salary during the first run, was never more than $4 million per year...During the last run, Jordan operated on a 1-year contract for the final 3 seasons..And since teams were allowed to exceed the salary cap then, to sign or res-sign their own players, what MJ made had little relevance....Especially so since Pippen signed the worst ****ing contract in the history of the NBA...
Look, no one is arguing that MJ had a great luxury of having Pippen. Top 50 dude as your side-kick is exactly that---a luxury. BUT...beyond that, there were no super-stars...Just solid ass NBA players, that played their role; Yes I know---Rodman. Dude was a rebounding machine. But couldn't score to save his life. But still, a HOF'er.
To insinuate that MJ led Bulls teams didn't beat anyone with more talent, is simply not accurate. Overall, the Blazers did....Lakers had an argument...SO did the Suns. Hell, really, all six teams the Bulls beat did...
I get you mentioned the Pippen fellow. That's my point as you tried to preface "besides Pippen". still cannot find a series they won when not favored. also weird they won 55 when he left.
it wasn't check ****ing mate until the East got old.
"but still" a HOFer? Not really a but still, he was is HOFer and exceptional in his role. Not really debating they didn't have some very solid role players and were well built around MJ (which makes it odd Kraus gets little credit by many, especially MJ).
which series were the Bulls not favored that they won?
So now you are changing the criteria?Laughing
Maybe the Bulls were alwyas favored b/c they were the better team? I mean, is that Jordan's fault? Is that supposed to be some type of discredit? If so.......
STUPID.
You said the Bulls didn't beat anyone with more talent...You didn't see, "anyone that was better than Jordan AND Pippen". You do realize there were guys on the team , asides from those two---right?
MOF the first title MJ won, his team beat the Lakers---a team with three future HOF'ers---Magic, Worthy and Perkins.
It wasn't check mate until the East, "got old"?Laughing Ok, sure...LeBron went through an eastern division that might not have a team that could have won an NCAA title,,,Laughing
BUt hey, keep moving the goal post....Keep on a diggin'....That hole is getting deeper and deeper....
That was always my criteria. Thought when I said better or favored it mwant the same thing...because it kind of does.
do you not note those 3 HOFers on the Lakers were past their prime when MJ beat them? How has MJ done getting to Finals without Pippen? any success there? Pippen did win 55 without MJ. Mj ever beat Bird, McHale, etc. in their prime? How long to beat the Pistons?
MJ never got to the Finals without Pippen, let alone with Ilgauskas as his #2.
If moving the goal posts means making logical points and refuting your comments call me guilty.
FYI, I've never said MJ not the GOAT. Probably still is but it's close. and Lebron still has time to pass him.
What does that have to do with anything? I mean what type of point were/are you trying to make? The Bulls, with MJ/Pippen, the Triangle and Phil....with solid role players, then the addition of Rodman, were simply a machine. And then when MJ started to trust guys, and pass the ball? Game over. Look, Jordan is just a different animal. He just didn't lose. His mental approach sets him apart more than his talent. Dude just wasn't going to lose...
As for a series they won, when not favored? I dunno.
1992-93: The Third Championship
Title Odds
- Preseason: +120
- Before playoffs: +300
- Eastern Conference Finals: -150
- Finals: -240
The Bulls had 10 fewer wins than the previous season and didn’t have home-court advantage going into those playoffs. It’s also proof of just how good the favorite, the Suns (+200), were.
I just want to state for the record that my colleague WorldWideWob absolutely would have talked himself into betting the Knicks (+130) in those conference finals, and I would have absolutely bet the Suns +190, talking myself into Jordan’s rumored exhaustion and how good Barkley and his Suns were.
Welp, here ya go...
And this interesting tidbit from the 1998 FInals...
A couple of interesting things about that series…
- The Bulls went 4-2 against the spread in that series but 1-2 as favorites.
- They were actually underdogs in Games 1 and 2 in Utah, and in Game 6.
- Chicago was a two-point dog in Game 6, so even if Jordan misses the Bryon Russell shot, Jazz bettors still lost.
- The under in that series was 5-0-1. Utah’s defense was legit, and the Bulls were legit exhausted.
So, well, there is that...
But in the end, the Bulls covered, the Bulls won and Jordan Bulls bettors cashed for the last time.
you did not show a series in which they were not favored to win that they won. You did find one they won in which they were favored. are you trying to move the goal posts or just not aware games and series not the same?
Never mind no need to claim some sort of win if you find such a series (you haven't yet) as I never said I was sure he did not..just I did not know of one.
But keep trying if you want.
Huh?
Magic was coming off an MVP season in 1990.....He was in his 10th NBA season. That is being "past your prime"?
Sam Perkins was in the SAME DRAFT as Jordan.....One pick below. But he was past his prime, but MJ was not? BTW, Perkins averaged 14ppg and 8rp in 1990-91...His forst season with the Lakers...He would averaged at least 12ppg the next 8 seasons, including a CAREER BEST, 16.5 in 1991-92.
Not bad for a dude "past his prime".
James Worthy was a mere two years older than MJ...He was an All-Star in 1991... He was 29 entering the 1991 season, his 9th season. He averaged 21ppg...
Dude, just quit it....You are throwing shit, hoping something sticks....So far, you are striking out..
They were not favored vs the Sonics....
The Bulls had 10 fewer wins than the previous season and didn’t have home-court advantage going into those playoffs. It’s also proof of just how good the favorite, the Suns (+200), were.
Fair point and Lakers were better then than I remember...but not exactly the mid-80s Lakers. Either way, try and stay focused as you try and find a series the Bulls were not favored and won.
You can keep making comments like the last one but it wont change the fact you have failed to do so as of now. Games do not equal series, my friend (but that was a funny attempt).
Never mind, as mentioned, I never even said he had not won such a series only I cannot recall...seems so far you can't either.
If the Suns were +200 wouldn't that make them the underdog? and what does the bold have to do with seattle?
wow
Murray isn't hitting ridiculous shots. He's stepping into wide open 3s, one after another. They were even talking about that this morning on NBA radio.
They've both hit some nice driving shots and layups, no doubt about it, but from the perimeter its been one wide open look after another. Simple pick and roll resulting in wide open 3s all series long for both players. And Mitchell is getting absolutely no resistance at the rim on his drives so please don't tell me there's good defense out there. Especially on the Denver side. Heck, their coach even had to ask them to start trying on defense early in the series.
Also, this series has seen 2 players score over 50 twice. Something that's only happened a couple times in the history of the league. yet it happens twice in one series??? Yea, they should pretty much just change the name of the playoffs to the Asterisk Open.
I wouldn't apply an astersik to the winner (some have said this...not you) as I believe it will be well earned whoever wins.....but cannot disagree the venue could be playing a role as you have said.
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