NBA Bubble Thread
- Thread starter JimboBBN
- Start date
said earlier I honestly cannot recall a time MJ did win a series when other team had more talent (as Lebron has done).
Maybe I'm wrong?
Dame has been swept in the first round almost as many times as he’s made it past the first round. There’s just no comparison between the two.
You have a lot of good nba takes. This isn’t one of them.
Alternative translation: What the other guy said was too ****ing dumb to warrant an actual response.
Has Dame really ever had much help, compared to what Curry has when his teams were successful? I mean, their 3rd best player is Nurkic and the 4th and beyond? Curry beat a depleted Cavs team, lost to them at full strength then won again when he got Durant to help him. Is that debatable?
Yes, he has. Again, you’re talking about Curry beating a depleted Cavs team in the FINALS.
Dame has two years of being swept in the first round, with two other 4-1 losses in the first round. We aren’t talking pushing to game 7. We aren’t talking the Conference Finals. We are talking swept in round 1.
The talent around Curry looks as good as it does sometimes BECAUSE of Curry. That’s what elite players do. Raise the talent level around them.
Let’s look at 2015. Portland had LaMarcus Aldridge, Nic Batum, Will Barton, Wesley Matthews, CJ McCollum, Robin Lopez, and Meyers Leonard. In addition to Dame. This group won 51 games and Aldridge was 2nd team All-NBA.
Memphis gave them the gentleman’s sweep, 4-1, including winning by 14 and 15 in games 1 and 2. Dame was 5 of 31 from 3 in the series. (CJ was 11-23, Batum was 13-39, Meyers Leonard was 10-13).
Meanwhile, the Warriors swept the Pelicans (AD, Jrue, Eric Gordon, Tyreke Evans) with Curry shooting 20-48 from 3 in the series, to go along with a 35% usage rate.
In fact, Curry led the playoffs in win shares in 2015. I think it’s pretty safe to say that Curry on the Trailblazers in 2015 results in a different outcome, while Dame going 5-31 from 3 for the Warriors could impact that series.
Dame definitely had an awful series against memphis....aldridge and Batum were beyond bad shooting as well. what about 2014 when Dame was outstanding in knocking off Houston in round 1, while Curry was good but not great in losing to LAC? Maybe play like dame gets GS over the top that year (agree...Curry was a lot better than Dame in 2015 than Dame was better than Curry in 2014 though).
Dame also won a series in 2016 with Mo Harkless and Aminu as the 2nd and 3rd best players against the LAC.
This is not really an anti-Curry thread for me, though. Only saying Dame is pretty damn good in his own right and an elite PG.
also love what SVG said about him...something to the effect of reason he loves him is he never asks for help (like Curry did with Durant, though I think he was referring more to guys like Lebron) and never throws his teammates under the bus.
Have I ever said Dame wasn’t pretty damn good? I called the dude a top 15 player in the entire league. He simply isn’t top 5, and never has been. It’s not a knock on him, just stating reality. Curry has had several years just on a completely different level.
Curry already had a title and MVP without Durant. He didn’t “ask for help.” A top 5 player wanted to come and play for them and they said sure. Then Curry, the selfless player he is, re-made his game to make it work.
Curry won a title against a depleted team, lost to that team at full strength, then was among the players begging Durant to join them.
Yes, he asked for help.
1991 Lakers had Johnson, Worthy, Perkins, Divac , Scott and AC Green..
Bulls had Jordan and Pippen...Some guys named BJ Armstrong, Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, etc, etc....
92 Blazers had Drexler, Duckworth, Kersey, Terry Porter, Cliff Robinson....
Bulls had Jordan and Pippen...Same guys named BJ Armstrong, Horace Grant, BIll Cartwright....
93 Suns had Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Majerle, Chambers, Ainge...
Bulls had Jordan and Pippen....THough they did ad Ed Nealy...
Bulls didn't have a slew of great talent...They just happened to have that Jordan guy...Along with Pippen. Possibly the best 1-2 combo in the history of the NBA. When they added Rodman, that team became down right nasty.
Lol okay. If that’s the standard, then every team asks for help every year with free agency and trades.
Back to the topic at hand. We ain’t talking titles or even making the Finals here. Portland and Dame have lost in the first round more times than he’s made it out of the first round.
MJ on the Cavs may not have beaten GS, especially in 2018. But, I seriously doubt that they'd be swept... Bulls were a 6-seed in 1989 and took down the 2 & 3 seeds in New York and Cleveland, respectively. After that season, his teams were almost always a 1 seed. Took down New York and Phoenix in 93 as the lower seed, but not overly surprising given the talent on the Bulls.
I think a big difference between MJ and LeBron, is MJ never lost a series he was favored to win. Not once. LBJ's teams were the favorite in 2009 against Orlando (66 reg. season wins), 2010 against Boston (61 reg. season wins), and 2011 against Dallas (58 reg. season wins). He lost all three of those series in consecutive years. And I still can't get over how poorly his teams have played in multiple NBA Finals. Combined record of 18-31 in the Finals. Got swept twice. Went to game 5 twice. Two of his three ships were won in the final minute of Game 7.
Let's get this thread back on track. If you want to talk about historical NBA stuff you should make a thread about it.
Last night CP3 put on a show and Westbrook looked like an idiot. Jimmy Buckets is a man.
Tonight we have our first game 7 of the playoffs...Denver vs Utah. Series has been fantastic if you love offense, not so much if you like defense. Also, some pressure on Toronto to actually show up and put in an effort vs Boston tonight. Don't want to go down 2-0.
Last night CP3 put on a show and Westbrook looked like an idiot. Jimmy Buckets is a man.
Tonight we have our first game 7 of the playoffs...Denver vs Utah. Series has been fantastic if you love offense, not so much if you like defense. Also, some pressure on Toronto to actually show up and put in an effort vs Boston tonight. Don't want to go down 2-0.
Kills shot.
Outside of Pippen, the Bulls were never deep or elite. Rodman was a force on the boards, but he was also late in his career and a hot mess on/off the court. Outside of his talent, MJ (and Phil) had to overcome the dysfunction of the organization and the other players. In the era of big men, Jordan never had an elite big man or elite shooter.
Couldn't afford any with that salary he was getting. And, don't sell Pippen short, top 50 all-time. That's a hell of a running mate.
It was the best I’ve ever seen Paul (a perennial playoff loser) look in a big playoff game. He was superb down the stretch.
And yeah, Westbrook was awful. Should have stayed out a couple more games.
Steve Kerr?
Don't tell me what to do.
But yes, CP3 was dynamic last night. Hard not to root for him. Would be cool to see OKC win this series.
His percentage was elite, but I wouldn’t call him an elite shooter like Reggie Miller. Kerr got some buckets because he was the 4th option
I don’t care if Kerr was the 12th option, to say he wasn’t an elite shooter is a bit off imo. He wasn’t and “elite player” and he wasn’t elite at anything else, but he could knock em down.
And comparing him to the best shooter in the era isn’t totally fair imo either.
And comparing him to the best shooter in the era isn’t totally fair imo either.
Bingo. A guy can be an elite shooter without being an elite player. Kyle Korver comes to mind.
"some guys named Grant, cartwright, etc. (especially Grant)" were better than Lebron's #2 in 2007. And they also had that Pippen fellow.
does every team send the star player to court the guy? He begged him to come. No way around it.
also absurd to think Curry has not had more talent at his disposal, especially when Durant came to the rescue.
we are also talking NOW, and I don't think it's crazy to think that now Dame is better or at least it's a very close call.
Cannot say I recall cavs being favored in 2010. Better record, but not sure favored. agree no exscuse for Lebron in 2011 and that is the one instance I'm confident MJ would have made a difference. Lebron was afraid to step on toes and show he was the clear #1 over his friend. MJ would not have cared and would have been the star of the team.
But we can also point to series Lebron was not favored to win and did win. Not sure MJ has ever done this.
agree on that Utah/Denver series. who goes off tonight? Mitchell, Murray, both or neither?
You can not call him an elite shooter but he was an elite shooter. Yes, on Miller level. Is true Miller could do more and better at crating his own shot.
But Kerr (and even paxton) were studs MJ could kick out to and have confidence they could make an open shot.
who was Lebron's elite shooter in 2007?
Yep...and I'm not as sold on him as some (as he has really only had 1 or even half a good year) but maybe Duncan Robinson becomes this type of player.
Kerr is the all-time leader in 3-point field goal percentage. Say what you want about his overall game, but you're not convincing too many people if you don't think Kerr was an elite shooter.
Steve Kerr averaged 6 ppg for his career and never attempted more than 7 spg in a season. He was a great shooter, but I think there are plenty of great shooters who could have his 3 pt percentage of they took so few shots. An elite shooter has to do more than than average 4.7 shots per game.
an elite shooter has to be..well...elite at shooting. Kerr is.
Is Korver not elite either?
See my post above. A lot of guys could snipe 50% from the 3pt line with so few attempts. He always got the wide open look when the defense collapsed on others. If he was truly elite, he would have averaged more than 6 points per game.
The '07 Cleveland team was not good. There's no way around it. Probably the worst team to reach the NBA Finals this century.
You think there are plenty of great shooters who could have shot 45.4% from three with 1600 attempts? Name one.
You are getting lost in the percentage and not looking at context. Kerr is a great shooter but he was basically taking set jump shots with no defender on him. To me, an elite shooter has to be able to create his shot or get it off while being defended. Kerr’s % was a by product of being the 4th option.
How many shooters would you take on your team ahead of Kerr if you were a GM? I can think of at least 15. If Kerr was an elite, cant miss shooter, he would have scored more. Much more.
But Kerr's role was to hit open shots, and he was one of the best ever in this role. If it was so easy why can't more hit them at the rate he did (in fact, why can't any)?
Is Korver an elite shooter? In your "you are getting lost in the % are you actually trying to imply the rate at which one can make shots shouldn't be heavily weighted?
Similar threads
