NBA Bubble Thread

[dukedevilz]

Of course. That’s why I never understand the MJ nut huggers who constantly yell “6-0, 6-0!”

If MJ was in the West, his Finals record would have been something like 6-4. He might have made the Finals in the late 80s but still would have lost to the Bad Boys.

If Lebron was in the West he would have made fewer Finals but he would have been undefeated in them. So maybe 3-0? Or 4-0?

The Finals records are a reflection of their conferences. MJ faced his toughest comp in the Eastern Con playoffs which is why he had so many early round exits. LBJ faced his toughest comp in the Finals which is why he’s 3-6.

Not sure MJ would have gone to the Finals other than the years he made it in the East. In 1990, the year before his first title, they would have tied for the 4th best record in the Western Conference. So, I'll say 6-0. Had he played a full season in 94 & 95, he probably gets 1-2 more trips to the Finals. MJ played some really, really good teams in the Finals, however. 4 of the 6 teams he faced had 60+ wins. LeBron, by comparison, faced 4 teams with 60+ wins during his 9 appearances in the finals. If you took the average number of wins, LeBron's opponents probably have more wins, as Golden State's 73 & 67 wins probably skew the averages a little.

The 8 consecutive trips LBJ made to the NBA Finals is wildly impressive. Arguably more so than the Celtics 10 straight trips, mostly because Boston usually only had to win one series before advancing to the NBA Finals.

And I'll give you LeBron would probably be undefeated in the finals if he were advancing from the West. Just not sure I can assume it would be more than 3 trips. If anything, I'd say it's more likely to be fewer trips. LeBron's teams have not been overly inspiring in the series that they've lost. Got absolutely wrecked in 2007, 2014, 2017, and 2018. The only time they put up much of a fight, in a losing effort, was in 2011 and 2015... I think Miami would have won the whole thing, no matter from what conference, in 2012. The titles in 2013 and 2016, however, were both won with last-minute heroics in Game 7. Either of those teams could have lost in the Western Conference Semifinals.

 

[GE Nole]

Not sure MJ would have gone to the Finals other than the years he made it in the East. In 1990, the year before his first title, they would have tied for the 4th best record in the Western Conference. So, I'll say 6-0. Had he played a full season in 94 & 95, he probably gets 1-2 more trips to the Finals. MJ played some really, really good teams in the Finals, however. 4 of the 6 teams he faced had 60+ wins. LeBron, by comparison, faced 4 teams with 60+ wins during his 9 appearances in the finals. If you took the average number of wins, LeBron's opponents probably have more wins, as Golden State's 73 & 67 wins probably skew the averages a little.

The 8 consecutive trips LBJ made to the NBA Finals is wildly impressive. Arguably more so than the Celtics 10 straight trips, mostly because Boston usually only had to win one series before advancing to the NBA Finals.

And I'll give you LeBron would probably be undefeated in the finals if he were advancing from the West. Just not sure I can assume it would be more than 3 trips. If anything, I'd say it's more likely to be fewer trips. LeBron's teams have not been overly inspiring in the series that they've lost. Got absolutely wrecked in 2007, 2014, 2017, and 2018. The only time they put up much of a fight, in a losing effort, was in 2011 and 2015... I think Miami would have won the whole thing, no matter from what conference, in 2012. The titles in 2013 and 2016, however, were both won with last-minute heroics in Game 7. Either of those teams could have lost in the Western Conference Semifinals.

Obviously it’s all speculation, but I don’t put as much into the regular season standings as you do. The teams hungry to prove something, like the 73 win Golden State team, are clearly special. But often times you’ve got experienced guys who have already won titles that are playing more for positioning and trying to peak in the playoffs. Like a golfer skipping an event or two and trying to peak at the US Open.

The Bulls would have been smashed by the Rockets in 1995. Heck, I’m not sure they even make the Finals, considering Jordan played like a 1/3 of the season and they were handled pretty easily by the Magic. The Bulls just would have had no answer for Hakeem.

1994 is interesting because Houston wasn’t really quite what they would become in 1995 yet. But honestly...I could still see the Bulls losing to them. Would have been a great series.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Obviously it’s all speculation, but I don’t put as much into the regular season standings as you do. The teams hungry to prove something, like the 73 win Golden State team, are clearly special. But often times you’ve got experienced guys who have already won titles that are playing more for positioning and trying to peak in the playoffs. Like a golfer skipping an event or two and trying to peak at the US Open.

The Bulls would have been smashed by the Rockets in 1995. Heck, I’m not sure they even make the Finals, considering Jordan played like a 1/3 of the season and they were handled pretty easily by the Magic. The Bulls just would have had no answer for Hakeem.

1994 is interesting because Houston wasn’t really quite what they would become in 1995 yet. But honestly...I could still see the Bulls losing to them. Would have been a great series.

This is just a whole load of Bullshit. Not even worth responding to, just complete utter nonsense. Anyone who reads it is now dumber than they were before they read it.

 

[dukedevilz]

Obviously it’s all speculation, but I don’t put as much into the regular season standings as you do. The teams hungry to prove something, like the 73 win Golden State team, are clearly special. But often times you’ve got experienced guys who have already won titles that are playing more for positioning and trying to peak in the playoffs. Like a golfer skipping an event or two and trying to peak at the US Open.

The Bulls would have been smashed by the Rockets in 1995. Heck, I’m not sure they even make the Finals, considering Jordan played like a 1/3 of the season and they were handled pretty easily by the Magic. The Bulls just would have had no answer for Hakeem.

1994 is interesting because Houston wasn’t really quite what they would become in 1995 yet. But honestly...I could still see the Bulls losing to them. Would have been a great series.

The regular season may be a little overvalued. Certainly injuries, coupled with rest, can play a factor in a team's overall record. But, it's a good medium to compare teams from different seasons. What else are you going to use? As it is, 65 of the 73 NBA Champs were either a 1 or 2 seed.

Yes, it's all speculative. In my scenario with MJ, I was suggesting that he'd have 1-2 more trips to the finals had he never retired. Clearly MJ was not the same player in 95 as he was in 96. He only played 17 games in the 95 season. He was in a playoff game less than six weeks after his first game back. If Jordan never retired and had the benefit of continuity, the Bulls would have been just as lethal in 94 & 95.

The Rockets, FWIW, weren't anything special in 95. They were a 6 seed - and came on strong once they acquired Clyde Drexler. Houston had to win the final two games to knock off Utah in the 1st Round, and they had to win the final three games to knock off Phoenix in the Western Conference Semifinals. Easily could have lost either series. If the '95 Bulls (or '94) had the '96 version of MJ, they would have been the favorites.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Obviously it’s all speculation, but I don’t put as much into the regular season standings as you do. The teams hungry to prove something, like the 73 win Golden State team, are clearly special. But often times you’ve got experienced guys who have already won titles that are playing more for positioning and trying to peak in the playoffs. Like a golfer skipping an event or two and trying to peak at the US Open.

The Bulls would have been smashed by the Rockets in 1995. Heck, I’m not sure they even make the Finals, considering Jordan played like a 1/3 of the season and they were handled pretty easily by the Magic. The Bulls just would have had no answer for Hakeem.

Bulls lost 4-2....with Orlando winning the last 2 games---103-95 and 108-102. It was a competitive series. And this with MJ only playing 18 games....Bulls went 14-4 during that span.

No answer for Hakeem? I mean, who did? But the Bulls seemed just fine dealing with Ewing...With MJ in his prime, no one was going to smash the Bulls. Maybe Houston does beat Chicago in 1995....WHo knows. I do feel this----Had MJ not retired, I'm not sure who beats them...Dude was just on a different level not only talent wise, but mentally...Scary, TBH.

 

[GE Nole]

Bulls lost 4-2....with Orlando winning the last 2 games---103-95 and 108-102. It was a competitive series. And this with MJ only playing 18 games....Bulls went 14-4 during that span.

No answer for Hakeem? I mean, who did? But the Bulls seemed just fine dealing with Ewing...With MJ in his prime, no one was going to smash the Bulls. Maybe Houston does beat Chicago in 1995....WHo knows. I do feel this----Had MJ not retired, I'm not sure who beats them...Dude was just on a different level not only talent wise, but mentally...Scary, TBH.

The 1995 roster was different. Show me who on that roster would have defended Hakeem?

Scottie shuts down Glide, MJ shuts down Kenny Smith. Who defends Hakeem? Hell, who defends Cassell?

The roster isn’t gonna get better just because Jordan plays 70 games.

 

[IUfanBorden]

The 1995 roster was different. Show me who on that roster would have defended Hakeem?

Scottie shuts down Glide, MJ shuts down Kenny Smith. Who defends Hakeem? Hell, who defends Cassell?

The roster isn’t gonna get better just because Jordan plays 70 games.

Agree.....But Jordan would have been better...

Hakeem was a monster...But so was Ewing---and the Bulls handle them. MOF, Bulls won 6 titles with their best center being Bill ****ing Cartwright, dude...

WHo defends Cassell? I'd been good with Harper.

Bulls may not have had an answer for Hakeem....But what answer did Houston have for MJ......

Or Scottie.....

Houston had no one that could match-up with either MJ or Pippen.

And BTW, dude, that Rockets team lost 35 ****ing games...

Maybe it is just me---but I am taking a Jordan led team, in that time frame, every ****ing day...

 

[GE Nole]

Agree.....But Jordan would have been better...

Hakeem was a monster...But so was Ewing---and the Bulls handle them. MOF, Bulls won 6 titles with their best center being Bill ****ing Cartwright, dude...

WHo defends Cassell? I'd been good with Harper.

Bulls may not have had an answer for Hakeem....But what answer did Houston have for MJ......

Or Scottie.....

Houston had no one that could match-up with either MJ or Pippen.

And BTW, dude, that Rockets team lost 35 ****ing games...

Maybe it is just me---but I am taking a Jordan led team, in that time frame, every ****ing day...

Bulls didn’t handle Ewing in 1995. And they didn’t handle Shaq either. The Shaq who got beat 4-0 in the Finals by Hakeem.

MJ was incredible in the late 80s and guess what? The Bulls still lost to the teams that were clearly better. It didn’t matter how good MJ was. Why would 1995 be different?

Yes, Houston lost 35 games. Because teams coming off titles know they don’t have to be world beaters all season long. They just need to prepare for the playoffs. By the time the Finals rolled around the Rockets were peaking.

 

[dukedevilz]

Bulls didn’t handle Ewing in 1995. And they didn’t handle Shaq either. The Shaq who got beat 4-0 in the Finals by Hakeem.

MJ was incredible in the late 80s and guess what? The Bulls still lost to the teams that were clearly better. It didn’t matter how good MJ was. Why would 1995 be different?

Yes, Houston lost 35 games. Because teams coming off titles know they don’t have to be world beaters all season long. They just need to prepare for the playoffs. By the time the Finals rolled around the Rockets were peaking.

Rolling? No. I don't believe that is accurate. They struggled in the regular season. They lost 7 games in the Western Conference playoffs. They were very fortunate to get by Utah and Phoenix, winning 5 elimination games. San Antonio was no cakewalk either. The '96 Bulls, by contrast, only lost 3 games in the entirety of the playoffs. The '93 Bulls lost four games. Yes, the Rockets swept the Magic. They didn't dominate them, however. I think they had the mental edge. Magic had game one wrapped up. 3 point lead - and the ball with 10 seconds left. Nick Anderson missed four consecutive free throws. They collapsed after that.

And while the Bulls may not have been able to stop Hakeem, that doesn't tell the whole story. He only accounts for roughly 30% of the scoring. The Bulls with MJ in the 80's couldn't win a title because there wasn't enough talent around him. One guy alone simply isn't enough. Jordan alongside Pippen, Kukoc, and BJ Armstrong was enough talent to do it. And to go back to the continuity argument, that's a HUGE element. Look at MJ's shooting percentages:

1993: 49.5%
1995: 41.1%
1996: 49.5%

Jordan was still a great player in 95, but he wasn't anywhere near his best. Had a huge dip in his effectiveness during the 95 season. He regained his old form in 96. The Bulls wouldn't win in a landslide over Houston, but if MJ never retired, they'd absolutely be the favorites.

 

[Villian07]

Bulls didn’t handle Ewing in 1995. And they didn’t handle Shaq either. The Shaq who got beat 4-0 in the Finals by Hakeem.

MJ was incredible in the late 80s and guess what? The Bulls still lost to the teams that were clearly better. It didn’t matter how good MJ was. Why would 1995 be different?

Yes, Houston lost 35 games. Because teams coming off titles know they don’t have to be world beaters all season long. They just need to prepare for the playoffs. By the time the Finals rolled around the Rockets were peaking.

I was a big Rockets fan during this time period, although I was fairly young I think your giving them to much credit. Why didn’t they win it all again in 96 if they were so superior to the bulls in 95. Did they even make the Finals in 96?

If Jordan didn’t retire to play baseball the bulls would have won 8 straight imo, and I’m not a bulls fan and constantly rooted against MJ bc I like seeing the underdogs win if my favorite team isn’t involved.

 

[GE Nole]

I was a big Rockets fan during this time period, although I was fairly young I think your giving them to much credit. Why didn’t they win it all again in 96 if they were so superior to the bulls in 95. Did they even make the Finals in 96?

If Jordan didn’t retire to play baseball the bulls would have won 8 straight imo, and I’m not a bulls fan and constantly rooted against MJ bc I like seeing the underdogs win if my favorite team isn’t involved.

Why don’t lots of teams keep winning titles? People get older, guys get hurt, winning back to back to back is hard. Those aren’t things isolated to the Rockets.

As for 1996 Bulls, they would have beat anyone else. They added significant pieces after the 1995 season (because MJ knew they needed help if they were gonna be champs again).

 

[Villian07]

So u think had MJ never retired to go play baseball, the Rockets would have won back to back titles in 94-95 anyways? And ur right things that keep teams from winning a couple titles to becoming an all out dynasty arent exclusive to the Rockets, but........the bulls faced those same hurdles and managed to three peat, twice. It literally took the GOAT stepping away from the game to stop the Bulls dynasty.

I mean it’s just and opinion and everyone has a right to one, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Like I mentioned I was young during that era so who did the bulls add besides Toni Kukoc? Rodman as well? I know the Rockets added Barkley at some point although he was obv getting old. Did the Rockets even make the finals the following year? I lose a team somewhere during the bulls second three peat, I know the jazz were last, and the SuperSonics were somewhere, but i forget who the third team was from the west in the second three peat. Blazers? Or was that the first three peat?

One thing we do agree on tho is Hakeem was one bad mofo. He had the best footwork and prettiest post moves I’ve ever seen, even to this day. Plus the fact that he is just an amazing human being makes him even easier to root for.

 

[GE Nole]

So u think had MJ never retired to go play baseball, the Rockets would have won back to back titles in 94-95 anyways? And ur right things that keep teams from winning a couple titles to becoming an all out dynasty arent exclusive to the Rockets, but........the bulls faced those same hurdles and managed to three peat, twice. It literally took the GOAT stepping away from the game to stop the Bulls dynasty.

I mean it’s just and opinion and everyone has a right to one, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Like I mentioned I was young during that era so who did the bulls add besides Toni Kukoc? Rodman as well? I know the Rockets added Barkley at some point although he was obv getting old. Did the Rockets even make the finals the following year? I lose a team somewhere during the bulls second three peat, I know the jazz were last, and the SuperSonics were somewhere, but i forget who the third team was from the west in the second three peat. Blazers? Or was that the first three peat?

One thing we do agree on tho is Hakeem was one bad mofo. He had the best footwork and prettiest post moves I’ve ever seen, even to this day. Plus the fact that he is just an amazing human being makes him even easier to root for.

I’m saying if the 1995 Bulls were the same roster, but you just have MJ play the whole season, the Rockets win anyway.

1994...I don’t know.

In 1996 the Bulls added Rodman, Kukoc was in his second year and adjusted more the physically of the NBA, and they totally overvalued their depth.

 

[Villian07]

So if the Bulls added Kucoc in 95, who did the Rockets add in 95.

I only ask bc I’m Not following on why you think the Rockets would have hypothetically won in 95 but not sure about 94. Is 95 the year the Bulls lost Horace Grant to the Magic I believe. And then didn’t really replace him until 96 with Rodman.

It’s all hypothetical anyways, but I have a feeling if Jordan never stepped away, many of his teammates would have probly taken pay cuts to stay on the Bulls and keep building the dynasty. He mentioned as much on the “Last Dance” when talking about Krause breaking the team up regardless after 98.

But anyways we’ve had some really good convos on here before so I hope you know I’m not just being a a$$, just don’t share the same opinion. But as always with you, I respect yours regardless. I really loved that Rockets team, they were my favorite team all the way until Mcgrady left. (I was also a huge Mcgrady and VC fan growing up, I’ll never understand why they didn’t team up for a year with the Raptors, being cousins and all, it’s like they added Mcgrady and got rid of VC the same year) but anyways I became a rockets fan Mainly because of Hakeem, he was just so fun to watch, his game was beautiful. And especially that whole team was so easy to like, Clyde was a class act, Cassell was super electric, maxwell could fill it up, plus I know I’m forgetting quite a few good players.

Sadly with the way the NBA has turned into a pick and pop or drive and kick three point shooting contest, I’m afraid we will never see another player with half the post moves of Hakeem the dream.

Bittersweet story being a Louisville fan that I heard on the phi slamma jamma 30 for 30, the first time Hakeem came to America, he was being recruited super hard by Louisville and HOUSTON, and he came in for his college visits. And his plane landed in NYC and it was middle of the winter, freezing cold, super windy. And as fate has it the guy carrying his luggage that worked at the airport was an immigrant from Africa who spoke the same language as Hakeem, and Hakeem asked him which city, Houston or Louisville was more like the country Hakeem is from, climate wise, and dude was like Houston no doubt lol. Man if we could have landed Hakeem We could have possibly had a legit dynasty Second to only UCLA. Help Bridge the gap between Unseld and Pervis Ellison down low. Our guard play in the early 80s was super good as well, Darrell Griffith, junior Bridgeman, Rodney and scooter McCray, Kevin Walls, plus I know I’m leaving ppl out, was just a tot way back when. But if ifs and buts we’re wishes and nuts we’d all be living the dream.

Houston shoulda won more titles with hakeem and drexeler and the cocky ass PG imo, the coach gave the PG to long a leash aka puttin his first name (which is escaping me) on the back of his jersey. Or letting him party all night before ncaa tourney games (also from the 30 for 30) not Suprisingly dude flamed out of the league despite being ultra talented. I’m by no means the hardest working dude on the block, but damn if I had elite talent that could make my entire family rich playing a game professionally, I just can’t see throwing that away. Everyone battles different demons though.

 

[Villian07]

^^^^^^ TL/DR

 

[GE Nole]

So if the Bulls added Kucoc in 95, who did the Rockets add in 95.

I only ask bc I’m Not following on why you think the Rockets would have hypothetically won in 95 but not sure about 94. Is 95 the year the Bulls lost Horace Grant to the Magic I believe. And then didn’t really replace him until 96 with Rodman.

It’s all hypothetical anyways, but I have a feeling if Jordan never stepped away, many of his teammates would have probly taken pay cuts to stay on the Bulls and keep building the dynasty. He mentioned as much on the “Last Dance” when talking about Krause breaking the team up regardless after 98.

But anyways we’ve had some really good convos on here before so I hope you know I’m not just being a a$$, just don’t share the same opinion. But as always with you, I respect yours regardless. I really loved that Rockets team, they were my favorite team all the way until Mcgrady left. (I was also a huge Mcgrady and VC fan growing up, I’ll never understand why they didn’t team up for a year with the Raptors, being cousins and all, it’s like they added Mcgrady and got rid of VC the same year) but anyways I became a rockets fan Mainly because of Hakeem, he was just so fun to watch, his game was beautiful. And especially that whole team was so easy to like, Clyde was a class act, Cassell was super electric, maxwell could fill it up, plus I know I’m forgetting quite a few good players.

Sadly with the way the NBA has turned into a pick and pop or drive and kick three point shooting contest, I’m afraid we will never see another player with half the post moves of Hakeem the dream.

Bittersweet story being a Louisville fan that I heard on the phi slamma jamma 30 for 30, the first time Hakeem came to America, he was being recruited super hard by Louisville and HOUSTON, and he came in for his college visits. And his plane landed in NYC and it was middle of the winter, freezing cold, super windy. And as fate has it the guy carrying his luggage that worked at the airport was an immigrant from Africa who spoke the same language as Hakeem, and Hakeem asked him which city, Houston or Louisville was more like the country Hakeem is from, climate wise, and dude was like Houston no doubt lol. Man if we could have landed Hakeem We could have possibly had a legit dynasty Second to only UCLA. Help Bridge the gap between Unseld and Pervis Ellison down low. Our guard play in the early 80s was super good as well, Darrell Griffith, junior Bridgeman, Rodney and scooter McCray, Kevin Walls, plus I know I’m leaving ppl out, was just a tot way back when. But if ifs and buts we’re wishes and nuts we’d all be living the dream.

Houston shoulda won more titles with hakeem and drexeler and the cocky ass PG imo, the coach gave the PG to long a leash aka puttin his first name (which is escaping me) on the back of his jersey. Or letting him party all night before ncaa tourney games (also from the 30 for 30) not Suprisingly dude flamed out of the league despite being ultra talented. I’m by no means the hardest working dude on the block, but damn if I had elite talent that could make my entire family rich playing a game professionally, I just can’t see throwing that away. Everyone battles different demons though.

The Bulls lost Horace Grant and John Paxon after 1994. The Rockets added Clyde Drexler.

 

[JimboBBN]

These whiny bitches gonna get back out there today?

 

[WeAreDePaul]

These whiny bitches gonna get back out there today?

I think tomorrow.

 

[toonces11]

Im not a shut up and dribble guy, but how is it wrong that I want to watch sports and have it be about sports and competition and listen to coaches and players talk about the actual game? This is for any sport.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Im not a shut up and dribble guy, but how is it wrong that I want to watch sports and have it be about sports and competition and listen to coaches and players talk about the actual game? This is for any sport.

you're not wrong for wanting that and they're not wrong for wanting you to be uncomfortable and forced to think about the issues of systemic racism and police brutality while you try and enjoy a basketball game.

 

[Villian07]

The Bulls lost Horace Grant and John Paxon after 1994. The Rockets added Clyde Drexler.

Ahh Touche. Maybe they would have won it anyways, it’s fun to play what if sometimes.

Regardless I would have had my hypothetical $$$ on Jordan if he never stepped away, but either way that would have been an epic series. And again respect the hell out of ur opinion.

 

[dukedevilz]

The Bulls lost Horace Grant and John Paxon after 1994. The Rockets added Clyde Drexler.

Horace Grant was a huge loss. 1995 was the only year where the Bulls didn't have an elite power forward. So, even if MJ never retired, they would have been more vulnerable during that season. Paxson, however, was dispensable. He's remembered for making the game-winning shot against Phoenix in 93, but he didn't add a whole lot of value to the '94 team... and that was his last year in the league.

 

[GE Nole]

Ahh Touche. Maybe they would have won it anyways, it’s fun to play what if sometimes.

Regardless I would have had my hypothetical $$$ on Jordan if he never stepped away, but either way that would have been an epic series. And again respect the hell out of ur opinion.

Likewise, good convo! And yes, would have been an awesome series.

 

[GE Nole]

Horace Grant was a huge loss. 1995 was the only year where the Bulls didn't have an elite power forward. So, even if MJ never retired, they would have been more vulnerable during that season. Paxson, however, was dispensable. He's remembered for making the game-winning shot against Phoenix in 93, but he didn't add a whole lot of value to the '94 team... and that was his last year in the league.

Grant was a massive massive loss, indeed. He has sort of been lost to time, but for those who watched him live back then, he was a boss. Perfect for those early Bulls’ teams.

Obviously with Horace on the 1995 team my opinion about a hypothetical series with the Rockets would be way different.

 

[dtgold88]

No way Steph is below Dame. Steph has just torched the Blazers when they have played in the playoffs. They are both average defenders but Steph is a FAR superior shooter.

Top 10 players if there was an active player NBA draft for next season

1. Freak
2. Lebron
3. Kawhi
4. Steph
5. Luka
6. Jokic
7. PG13
8. Embiid
9. AD
10. Harden

While I cannot say that is a crazy notion, I think GS could have had similar/same success with Dame and not sure Portland goes further with Curry.

 

[dtgold88]

Am I wrong in saying it finally seems somewhat justified to start dropping bron down some of these lists?

If by some you mean he's not the clear "best player in the game"? I guess. But in a draft of entire league for next season I doubt he goes outside top 3-5 at worst.

 

[dtgold88]

Because Luka does far more than Dame. He’s an elite rebounder. He’s an elite playmaker. He’s a bully in the paint. He’s just a better overall player than Dame.

No disagreement, but he does not make the cut of a top 5 player on the criteria you used to leave Dame out of top 5.

 

[GE Nole]

While I cannot say that is a crazy notion, I think GS could have had similar/same success with Dame and not sure Portland goes further with Curry.

Nope. Steph is better in every single shooting category, some times way much better. Far more efficient. Defenses know this and play accordingly.

Consider this: Dame Lillard was incredible this year. Multiple weeks of him looking unstoppable. And his TS% this season is the same as Steph Curry’s career average TS%.

Think about that. Dame’s best shooting season in his career is Steph’s career average. The numbers Curry was putting up in 2014-2017 were astounding.

 

[dtgold88]

Steph is the greatest shooter in the history of basketball. His shooting is FAR superior to Dame’s.

Luka impacts the game in a lot more ways than just scoring.

Y’all seriously can’t see the difference between someone like Dame and someone like Luka? Come on now.

I can, but by your own rules, Luca is not top 5. Maybe your rules need amending?

Unless your rules were only for smaller PGs?

 

[dtgold88]

You seriously underestimate playoff Lebron. Dame was cooking when they were already in do or die playoff mode, while the rest of the league was easing themselves in and working out the kinks.

Dame has consistently had brilliant games...and consistently been unable to lead his team to deep playoff runs.

While I did think Portland would take a couple games, I've also said I wont bet against playoff Lebron until someone other than GS beats him.

 

[GE Nole]

No disagreement, but he does not make the cut of a top 5 player on the criteria you used to leave Dame out of top 5.

Huh? I was never comparing Luka and Dame. There is no comparison. It’s like comparing Kawhi Leonard and Bradley Beal. They are just two different players.

 

[GE Nole]

I can, but by your own rules, Luca is not top 5. Maybe your rules need amending?

Unless your rules were only for smaller PGs?

Yes, it was just for undersized guards.

 

[dtgold88]

Facts. And I also believe he's number two all time. His playoff stats are definitely inflated due to competition. I guess that counter point to that would be, if he was in the West, he would be 3 - 0 in title series.

Seems in the MJ?Lebron comparison it's pretty simple. MJ better in Finals because he faced lesser teams. Lebron got to more Finals because East was weaker.

 

[dtgold88]

Huh? I was never comparing Luka and Dame. There is no comparison. It’s like comparing Kawhi Leonard and Bradley Beal. They are just two different players.

You made a blanket statement about if you want to put a guy top 5 he needs to be an elite shooter and/or plus defender (or something like that).

 

[dtgold88]

Ha, agree on the last part for sure. But you do realize at some point, he will slow down, right? Father Time is undefeated, and at some point, LeBron will no longer be LeBron. I’m not calling someone crazy if they thought it would be this year and show a little.

I wont predcit him to lose a playoff series again until he does but agree was not crazy after he was finally mortal and had an injury to think this was the year he slowed down.

 

[dtgold88]

I was exclusively referencing the 1st Round match-ups. He's been playing a Gonzaga-type schedule in the opening round. Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the hype. Just noting that no player in the West could ever go 13 consecutive years playing a team with 44 wins or fewer on the season. Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and everyone else has lost in the 1st Round in the West, mostly because the competition is infinitely better.



The only completely underwhelming roster was the '07 Cleveland squad. His 50-point performance against Detroit was impressive. And yes, LeBron put the team on his back. I'd say being in the East was a bigger factor to advancing to the finals, however, as I don't think they would have made it to the Western Conference Finals... they would have lost in the 1st round to San Antonio if they were in the West in '07. Some of the Cleveland squads had injuries, but they still was Kyrie and Kevin Love. Miami, of course, had Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.

That 2018 team was nothing to write home about. I don't see MJ winning a title against that GS team if he was the same age on tha cavs' team instead of Lebron.

In fact, I cannot recall MJ ever winning a series in which he was not considered at least even money if not a heavy favorite to win (as Lebron has done a few times). Isn't to say it hasn't happened, but I cannot recall it happening.

 

[dtgold88]

I'm not a fan of his at all but I do think it would be kina neat to see him and his son play against each other in the NBA

My dream would be for Cavs to pick his son, Lebron asks to come back and Gilbert says "thanks but no thanks.'

 

[dtgold88]

No way he plays college ball

If still a one and done rule, why not? Or are you saying that rule will be gone?

 

[dtgold88]

He'll go to Duke for sure if he goes. Lebron is a massive Coach K fan.

also a massive OSU fan with his own locker there already.

 

[dtgold88]

Nope. Steph is better in every single shooting category, some times way much better. Far more efficient. Defenses know this and play accordingly.

Consider this: Dame Lillard was incredible this year. Multiple weeks of him looking unstoppable. And his TS% this season is the same as Steph Curry’s career average TS%.

Think about that. Dame’s best shooting season in his career is Steph’s career average. The numbers Curry was putting up in 2014-2017 were astounding.

steph also had a little more talent to take pressure off him. so there's that. I have zero doubt GS wins title when they had Durant healthy with Dame as opposed to Curry.

also have zero doubt they win it with Dame instead of Curry on Cavs team missing Love/Kyrie. Curry lost the other years, so I'm sure Dame does no worse.