Missouri bb

npreston

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KisteK

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How funny was it when they squeezed out their future at point guard and then ol' Phillips got hit with a Title IX suspension?
 

Jaycg15

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Cuonzo is garbage.

Going to look forward to beating them again next year. Possibly with Ramey on the squad even.
 

Kevin Bryan

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Solid road win against Alabama last night. That geek Lunardi had them as the 1st team out before that game. They need some more good wins to sneak in. Hopefully Saturday isn't one of them. o_O
 
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RR30

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Cuonzo is garbage. Missouri won 8 games last year. He came in sits at a 14-8 record, top 50 rpi. In the SEC that’s really deep this year. Illinois is 12-11

Lost their best player first game of the year too.
 
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Jaycg15

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Cuonzo is garbage. Missouri won 8 games last year. He came in sits at a 14-8 record, top 50 rpi. In the SEC that’s really deep this year. Illinois is 12-11

Can't coach anything but defense. Never has, never will. You'll have a collection of decent seasons, but you'll never exceed. Same Cuonzo as always.

Couldn't be happier that we passed on him.
 
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pig1960

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Can't coach anything but defense. Never has, never will. You'll have a collection of decent seasons, but you'll never exceed. Same Cuonzo as always.

Couldn't be happier that we passed on him.
Never say never. I'm guessing Martin may have found a home and will continue to improve as a coach on both sides of the ball.
 

Jaycg15

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Never say never. I'm guessing Martin may have found a home and will continue to improve as a coach on both sides of the ball.
He's been coaching for 9 seasons. He is who he is. He may make marginal improvements, but he's not all of a sudden going to turn into a great offensive tactician. He is a guy that gets his players to play hard on defense. He isn't a guy that can make in-game adjustments on offense. I was being hyperbolic when I said he was garbage. He's exactly what @npreston said he is, a mediocre coach. If he lands another stud, or hires another dad, he can have a 20+ win season that will keep the fanbase happy. But, he will never do anything above that without the talent to drag him along.

He's also terrible at constructing rosters. Not the same as a recruiting. He has jumped ship 2x ahead of the storm. His teams went from 4th to 10th (UT) and 5th to 11th (Cal) when he left. The cupboards were bare. With this in mind, I'd be worried about what I'm seeing moving forward. Pickett is a MM+ guy, Santos is just ok (may end up a solid 3 and D guy by the end of his career), Watson is solid. They have no ball handlers currently and none signed. MPJ isn't coming back.
 
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pig1960

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He's been coaching for 9 seasons. He is who he is. He may make marginal improvements, but he's not all of a sudden going to turn into a great offensive tactician. He is a guy that gets his players to play hard on defense. He isn't a guy that can make in-game adjustments on offense. I was being hyperbolic when I said he was garbage. He's exactly what @npreston said he is, a mediocre coach. If he lands another stud, or hires another dad, he can have a 20+ win season that will keep the fanbase happy. But, he will never do anything above that without the talent to drag him along.

He's also terrible at constructing rosters. Not the same as a recruiting. He has jumped ship 2x ahead of the storm. His teams went from 4th to 10th (UT) and 5th to 11th (Cal) when he left. The cupboards were bare. With this in mind, I'd be worried about what I'm seeing moving forward. Pickett is a MM+ guy, Santos is just ok (may end up a solid 3 and D guy by the end of his career), Watson is solid. They have no ball handlers currently and none signed. MPJ isn't coming back.
I don't expect many successful people would agree that after nine years on the job they quit learning. I've heard the same stuff about Painter for years. No offense intended but I wouldn't rely on Preston for an unbiased view on anything related to Missouri basketball.
 

Jaycg15

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I don't expect many successful people would agree that after nine years on the job they quit learning. I've heard the same stuff about Painter for years. No offense intended but I wouldn't rely on Preston for an unbiased view on anything related to Missouri basketball.
I'm not insinuating he won't quit learning. All coaches learn as they progress through their career. That doesn't mean when he turns 70 that he will have accumulated enough knowledge to be Coach K. It's like anything in life, you progress with experience, but you are limited in how much you progress. It's been plain as day ever since the first time I watched Cuonzo coach. Solid defense, frustrating offense. Not much has changed since UT.
 
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KisteK

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Never say never. I'm guessing Martin may have found a home and will continue to improve as a coach on both sides of the ball.

Esp because there's like a dozen lil Porters in the local grade schools..

Where they will hurt is dumping those two point guards they had brought in, unless they sign one even better.. I'm not about to look into who they are recruiting. I really thought they had a decent one in Harris.
 
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pig1960

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I'm not insinuating he won't quit learning. All coaches learn as they progress through their career. That doesn't mean when he turns 70 that he will have accumulated enough knowledge to be Coach K. It's like anything in life, you progress with experience, but you are limited in how much you progress. It's been plain as day ever since the first time I watched Cuonzo coach. Solid defense, frustrating offense. Not much has changed since UT.
He had a #15 OE at UT and currently is at #36 with UMo. Underwood currently sitting at #130. Let the parsing begin.
 

Jaycg15

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He had a #15 OE at UT and currently is at #36 with UMo. Underwood currently sitting at #130. Let the parsing begin.
If you want to cherry pick stats, that's fine. Prior to this season, Martin hasn't had a season as good as Underwood's worst. Martin averages a 126th place finish to Underwood's 9th. In Martin's 9 seasons, he's finished top 30 twice, top 40 thrice, higher than 100 5x, and higher than 220 3x. I'd wager a good amount of money that Illinois moves up a good amount next season, and Missouri drops below Illinois.

Not sure what site you got your efficiency stats from, but I used teamrankings.com. These are the PPP rankings for each coach.

Underwood

2014. 9 SFA
2015. 9 SFA
2016. 12 SFA
2017. 5 Ok St

Martin
2009. 256 Missouri St
2010. 35 Missouri St
2011. 17 Missouri St
2012. 132 Tennessee
2013. 127 Tennessee
2014. 29 Tennessee
2015. 224 California
2016. 84 California
2017. 233 California
 

Brizoom

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If you want to cherry pick stats, that's fine. Prior to this season, Martin hasn't had a season as good as Underwood's worst. Martin averages a 126th place finish to Underwood's 9th. In Martin's 9 seasons, he's finished top 30 twice, top 40 thrice, higher than 100 5x, and higher than 220 3x. I'd wager a good amount of money that Illinois moves up a good amount next season, and Missouri drops below Illinois.

Not sure what site you got your efficiency stats from, but I used teamrankings.com. These are the PPP rankings for each coach.

Underwood

2014. 9 SFA
2015. 9 SFA
2016. 12 SFA
2017. 5 Ok St

Martin
2009. 256 Missouri St
2010. 35 Missouri St
2011. 17 Missouri St
2012. 132 Tennessee
2013. 127 Tennessee
2014. 29 Tennessee
2015. 224 California
2016. 84 California
2017. 233 California

Underwood is trash.

His former assistant is under FBI indictment. He made a deal with the devil in Nick Irvin in Chicago, leading him to pull a kid's scholarship offer the day he wanted to commit.

Plus, he looks like the love child of Gene Keady and Bull Connor. He probably has the bodies of some old Freedom Riders buried in his backyard. I'm not saying he personally lynched any Negroes, but he knows who did.

Illinois fans will turn on him just like they turn on every coach they ever have. He'll go 3-15 in the B1G this year and stay below .500 next. They'll be longing for John Groce and Bruce Weber after 2 more years of this brill-creamed maniac screaming at everyone on the sidelines.
 
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Jaycg15

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Underwood is trash.

His former assistant is under FBI indictment. He made a deal with the devil in Nick Irvin in Chicago, leading him to pull a kid's scholarship offer the day he wanted to commit.

Plus, he looks like the love child of Gene Keady and Bull Connor. He probably has the bodies of some old Freedom Riders buried in his backyard. I'm not saying he personally lynched any Negroes, but he knows who did.

Illinois fans will turn on him just like the turn on every coach they have. He'll go 3-15 in the B1G this year and stay below .500 next. They'll be longing for John Groce and Bruce Weber after 2 more years of this brill-creamed maniac screaming at everyone on the sidelines.
This is some grade D material. I'd say I expect more, but I don't.
 

Akrause84

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With Porter Mizzou probably starts the season 17-1. Mizzou was on the right side of the bubble until a recent 3 game skid. Now they have some work to do to get back in it but regardless I’m happy with what Cuonzo has done. He’s taken a team that won 8 games last season, lost the top player in the country, and is playing with 8 scholarship guys, 2 of which don’t belong on a P5 team and he has them in position to possibly get to the tourney. So far I couldn’t ask for more, but we will see how the next few years play out.
 

Akrause84

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Esp because there's like a dozen lil Porters in the local grade schools..

Where they will hurt is dumping those two point guards they had brought in, unless they sign one even better.. I'm not about to look into who they are recruiting. I really thought they had a decent one in Harris.

NC State is going to be Blake Harris’ 6th school in 5 years I believe so it’s no shock he transferred the kid never stays in one place. He came to Mizzou to play with MPJ and then when he got hurt he had no reason to stay. Had heard he may have just been in it at Mizzou for a year to play with MPJ before transferring after the season anyways.
 
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npreston

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With Porter Mizzou probably starts the season 17-1. Mizzou was on the right side of the bubble until a recent 3 game skid. Now they have some work to do to get back in it but regardless I’m happy with what Cuonzo has done. He’s taken a team that won 8 games last season, lost the top player in the country, and is playing with 8 scholarship guys, 2 of which don’t belong on a P5 team and he has them in position to possibly get to the tourney. So far I couldn’t ask for more, but we will see how the next few years play out.
Barely making the tourney, or qualifying for the NIT, is all you could ask for? Losing Porter (the really good one), definitely hurt, but the expectations must be extremely low for you to be satisfied with what he’s done thus far.
 

Akrause84

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Barely making the tourney, or qualifying for the NIT, is all you could ask for? Losing Porter (the really good one), definitely hurt, but the expectations must be extremely low for you to be satisfied with what he’s done thus far.

Are you aware Mizzou won 27 games the past 3 season combined? The team won 8 games last year and are a possible tourney team this year. Would I be happy if MPJ were playing and this was their record? No but expectations had to be adjusted. They are going to more than double their win total from last year with many of the same players they had last year. Why would I not be happy about that?
 

milky4524

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Barely making the tourney, or qualifying for the NIT, is all you could ask for? Losing Porter (the really good one), definitely hurt, but the expectations must be extremely low for you to be satisfied with what he’s done thus far.

You can’t ask for much more than what Cuonzo has done with the roster he had left. 3 of our 4 good players are the ones he brought in.
 

npreston

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Are you aware Mizzou won 27 games the past 3 season combined? The team won 8 games last year and are a possible tourney team this year. Would I be happy if MPJ were playing and this was their record? No but expectations had to be adjusted. They are going to more than double their win total from last year with many of the same players they had last year. Why would I not be happy about that?
Doubling a win total, when the previous year had single didgit wins, isn’t much to be proud of. I mean, it would be hard to do much worse, so the only real way to go was up.

Everyone outside of Missouri fan, and I mean everyone, knows Martin is a average coach, and a hell of a recruiter. I understand his crown jewel recruit has been hurt, but he still brought in some studs. MU guys were stoked about Tillmon, until they realized he’s a foul-per-minute, type of player. Being a bubble team, and on the verge of a NIT appearance, shouldn’t satisfy anyone, regardless how bad you guys have been.
 

Akrause84

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Doubling a win total, when the previous year had single didgit wins, isn’t much to be proud of. I mean, it would be hard to do much worse, so the only real way to go was up.

Everyone outside of Missouri fan, and I mean everyone, knows Martin is a average coach, and a hell of a recruiter. I understand his crown jewel recruit has been hurt, but he still brought in some studs. MU guys were stoked about Tillmon, until they realized he’s a foul-per-minute, type of player. Being a bubble team, and on the verge of a NIT appearance, shouldn’t satisfy anyone, regardless how bad you guys have been.

Lol okay dude. Apparently you think a non blue blood school should be able to rebuild completely in one year. You’re ignorance is ridiculous. I guess Oklahoma’s turnaround hasn’t been good enough either?
 
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npreston

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Lol okay dude. Apparently you think a non blue blood school should be able to rebuild completely in one year. You’re ignorance is ridiculous. I guess Oklahoma’s turnaround hasn’t been good enough either?
Oklahoma’s a one man show. Granted, he’s a POY candidate. Also, OK wasn’t bad last year. They really haven’t “turned it around.” Blue blood’s have nothing to do with it. It would be the same if someone was talking shit on KU football. We won 1 game last year. So by your logic, doubling that would be a success.
 
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Montana81

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He underachieved for all the talent he had ad California.

His teams compete. But they also play up and down to competition. They'll play a ranked team toe to toe and then lose to a bottom feeder.
 

Jaycg15

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Doubling a win total, when the previous year had single didgit wins, isn’t much to be proud of. I mean, it would be hard to do much worse, so the only real way to go was up.

Everyone outside of Missouri fan, and I mean everyone, knows Martin is a average coach, and a hell of a recruiter. I understand his crown jewel recruit has been hurt, but he still brought in some studs. MU guys were stoked about Tillmon, until they realized he’s a foul-per-minute, type of player. Being a bubble team, and on the verge of a NIT appearance, shouldn’t satisfy anyone, regardless how bad you guys have been.
His issue has never been bringing in studs. His filler guys aren't ever good enough, and when the studs leave, he's left with garbage. Your team next year is a perfect example of the imbalance that you're going to experience every other year.
 

Jaycg15

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Love that Mizzou fans are hurt that Ramey wants nothing to do with them, and we're gaining a lot of momentum with him. Cuonzo really locked down StL right off the bat.
 

Akrause84

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Oklahoma’s a one man show. Granted, he’s a POY candidate. Also, OK wasn’t bad last year. They really haven’t “turned it around.” Blue blood’s have nothing to do with it. It would be the same if someone was talking shit on KU football. We won 1 game last year. So by your logic, doubling that would be a success.

That is not he same thing. Lol doubling 8 and doubling 1 is not even close. The point isn’t that they are doubling their win total. It’s that they are going from worst P5 team in the country to a postseason in 1 year. So a more accurate comparison would be Kansas winning 1 game last year and improving to 6 wins and a bowl the next year. Obviously though nothing can get through your head because you’re just gonna continue believing what you wanna believe.
 

Jaycg15

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That is not he same thing. Lol doubling 8 and doubling 1 is not even close. The point isn’t that they are doubling their win total. It’s that they are going from worst P5 team in the country to a postseason in 1 year. So a more accurate comparison would be Kansas winning 1 game last year and improving to 6 wins and a bowl the next year. Obviously though nothing can get through your head because you’re just gonna continue believing what you wanna believe.
I think there's no doubt that Cuonzo has improved the team. He's certainly better than his predecessor, but that's not saying much.
 

Akrause84

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Love that Mizzou fans are hurt that Ramey wants nothing to do with them, and we're gaining a lot of momentum with him. Cuonzo really locked down StL right off the bat.

Cuonzo isn’t even recruiting Ramey. I know you used to lurk around the Mizzou board, I’m not sure if you still do but it was mentioned that the Ramey’s want to be recruited by Mizzou but Mizzou hasn’t been in too much contact since they had an in home a while ago. Not sure Mizzou would’ve even had a good chance anyways but Cuonzo isn’t after him too hard. I would rather get EJ Liddell in 2019 than Ramey.
 

cooljeff

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Mizzou has been better than I expected and it has been a few years since you can say that...it has to feel good for the fan base. I would say Mizzou has exceeded expectations this season and that is all the MU fans seem to be saying...not that martin is building a good program or anything just that it is not a complete and utter embarrassment like it has been. I know Kim little bit and think he is a good coach but he was just never able to ramp up his recruiting to a p5 level...some of those mizzou teams he had would have walked through the MIAA though!
 

Jaycg15

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Cuonzo isn’t even recruiting Ramey. I know you used to lurk around the Mizzou board, I’m not sure if you still do but it was mentioned that the Ramey’s want to be recruited by Mizzou but Mizzou hasn’t been in too much contact since they had an in home a while ago. Not sure Mizzou would’ve even had a good chance anyways but Cuonzo isn’t after him too hard. I would rather get EJ Liddell in 2019 than Ramey.
I don't subscribe to the board anymore, but I do have access to information around StL.

That's about the opposite of everything that I know. I've since heard it spun the other way by Mizzou folk. The Ramey's have no interest in Mizzou/Cuonzo, and they have made no secret about it. Does it really make since that Cuonzo doesn't want a top 50 player from StL at a position of need?
 

Akrause84

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I don't subscribe to the board anymore, but I do have access to information around StL.

That's about the opposite of everything that I know. I've since heard it spun the other way by Mizzou folk. The Ramey's have no interest in Mizzou/Cuonzo, and they have made no secret about it. Does it really make since that Cuonzo doesn't want a top 50 player from StL at a position of need?

There are a few posters on our board plugged into the STL basketball scene and one of them ran into the Ramey’s. Long story short he was told Ramey’s would listen but for some reason or another Cuonzo backed off. This happened recently which is why the narrative is recently changing around from Mizzou fans. Who knows what is actually happening but regardless I don’t think Mizzou had a great chance with Ramey to begin with so maybe they just decided not to waste the time and move on. Ramey has mentioned Mizzou in almost all of his interviews so I wouldn’t necessarily say he (Ramey) shut them out and told them no but I also think it was clear that it was unlikely he was going to choose them.
 
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