LeBron Declares Himself GOAT

[coryfly]

i know. a bit of hyperbole on my part, but at the same time there is truth behind it. nobody remembers the shots MJ missed. everybody remembers lebron's shortcomings. it is fact. prove me wrong.

and there are folks on this thread saying mj's competitiveness and will to win are "unrivaled". that is as subjective a statement as one can make when it comes to athletics. nobody knows what is going on inside someone's head.

Prove me wrong? That is even more silly. I could say the same in contrast and say 'prove me wrong'. That's dumb. Neither is possible, though people have discussed MJ's shortcomings plenty.

I think we can fairly easily agree MJ's will is greater than Lebron's. Lebron lost the right to that argument when he decided to not try to win. That doens't mean Lebron isn't a great competitor almost all the time though.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

You do realize that I asked a question of you and did not claim you said anything. (Usually thats why people ask questions when they aren’t sure what a person is saying) After that question was asked I typed if you believe that then take a step back.All of my posts remain in regards to this topic, unedited.

Your question was bullshit. Don't play coy.

Me: "LeBron is arguably the most versatile player in the history of any one sport."

You: "You think Jordan wasn’t versatile? If you do, take a step back man."


How did anything I say imply I think Jordan wasn't versatile?

 

[knockoutgame]

It doesn't seem like that is the minority opinion here. You can't play the nostalgia card as a knock (for those who do) without accepting recency bias as well. Both could impact how people perceive things.

I think Lebron should think he is the GOAT. I think several guys in the league probably think the same of themselves. I don't think that was ever the discussion (maybe I missed it though) regarding him saying that though. I thought it was his need to say it, which comes from his sensitivity and sort of need to make sure he is being talked about. None of that impacts whether or not he is the GOAT though.

recency bias shows LeBron losing the last two NBA finals in not so close fashion. his game, and his game alone, is speaking for him at the moment. and i agree, i don't speak for everyone and this thread seems roughly 50/50, but i'd venture a guess most still hold Michael in hollowed, untouchable ground.

i think lebron's NBA longevity, the fact that he might be better now than he was 10 years ago, and his political and social stances (in that he has the balls to speak up even if you don't agree) will likely tell another story in this debate 10 or 15 years down the road though. that and the fact that mj might still hold cultural significance, but that he has been usurped in recent years.

 

[knockoutgame]

Prove me wrong? That is even more silly. I could say the same in contrast and say 'prove me wrong'. That's dumb. Neither is possible, though people have discussed MJ's shortcomings plenty.

I think we can fairly easily agree MJ's will is greater than Lebron's. Lebron lost the right to that argument when he decided to not try to win. That doens't mean Lebron isn't a great competitor almost all the time though.

mj's shortcomings (the bad boy pistons) have, in time, been turned around into being a net positive for him and his legacy. lebron's shortcomings, the fact that he couldn't get over the finals hurdle against vastly superiors western conference foes has always hurt his legacy. that might not be fact of life to everyone on planet earth, but to those of us that weren't born last night it is. ie i can't speak for everyone, but i feel confident i speak for the vast majority of sane people of this world.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Jordan did play some PG in his career and was quite good at it when he did.

You saying LeBron can't pass? If so, take a step back.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

One thing is for sure, Lebron loves himself some Lebron.

You saying LeBron can't rebound? If so, take a step back.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Too*

my second "O" key doesn't work...

 

[IUfanBorden]

Amount of games? He had a couple months to prepare no? Also, do you think a year and a half off basketball saved his legs some for later in his career or no? Lebron played 82 games last year, not counting the playoffs. Jordan was playing his last season with the Wiz, not really doing MJ things.

Don't you think a yer and a half of being away from basketball didn't have an impact? Nothing to do with the physical aspect. MJ took very good care of his body. Plus its not like he was out fishing, playing golf...He was playing pro baseball.

He joined the Bulls with them being 33-31. They went 13-4. Lost to a very good Orlando team in 6 games. Don't you think that season may have been different had the Bulls had his services for 82 games----instead of 17?

 

[829305]

Don't you think a yer and a half of being away from basketball didn't have an impact? Nothing to do with the physical aspect. MJ took very good care of his body. Plus its not like he was out fishing, playing golf...He was playing pro baseball.

He joined the Bulls with them being 33-31. They went 13-4. Lost to a very good Orlando team in 6 games. Don't you think that season may have been different had the Bulls had his services for 82 games----instead of 17?

Yes. Chances are they win. I just think it’s funny nobody ever really talks about that season. That and the fact that Bron is still playing like he’s in his prime while MJ’s career was over right now. And I know all the reasons why, but the fact is he’s in his 16th season, something MJ never saw, and playing like he’s 25.

 

[brooky03]

MJ was more entertaining to watch, by a wide margin

 

[KyFaninNC]

This ended well.

 

[brooky03]

Yes. Chances are they win. I just think it’s funny nobody ever really talks about that season. That and the fact that Bron is still playing like he’s in his prime while MJ’s career was over right now. And I know all the reasons why, but the fact is he’s in his 16th season, something MJ never saw, and playing like he’s 25.

Longevity isn't that impressive though.

Edit: comparing age makes more sense than comparing number of NBA seasons, anyway. Look at their numbers at age 34.

 

[precise02]

I can't stand that guy...what a narcissistic, egomaniac.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Yes. Chances are they win. I just think it’s funny nobody ever really talks about that season. That and the fact that Bron is still playing like he’s in his prime while MJ’s career was over right now. And I know all the reasons why, but the fact is he’s in his 16th season, something MJ never saw, and playing like he’s 25.

I don't think its talked about, because he played 17 games. Then the playoffs. Dude was out the game for a year and half, yet averaged 32ppg; 31.3 in the playoffs. Thats crazy.

LeBron entered the league as a 18 year old. He's ONLY 34.

At 34, Jordan was winning his 5th NBA title... His 5th NBA finals MVP.. And at 35, he was winning #6. ALong with his MVP.

At 40, Jordan scored 20 or more 42 times...30 or more 9 times and three times dropped 40; Only person to score 40 or more in the NBA, at the age of 40.

So after sitting out, again, he returns to the NBA, and as a 40 year old, averages 20ppg, 6rpg and 3.8apg. Not bad for a 40 year old.

I'd safe it's safe to assume had MJ not retired twice, he would've probably stayed in better basketball shape. Maybe not. But to average those numbers, at 40, is impressive. And a testament to how good he was.

 

[UKcats1988]

I think Jordan is still the GOAT with Lebron at 2 or 3. But he’s not done yet, still has a few more prime years left with the way he takes care of his body.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Better resume? Michael Jordan
Better scorer? Michael Jordan
Better overall player? LeBron James


my opinion

 

[RonEJones]

So if I am to get this correct, you can’t be a Duke fan if you haven’t got any of those checked off above?

You can but you’re a bandwagon, front runner. Probably a Yankees and Patriots fan also.

 

[AWilli6995]

LBJ went to sleep against Dallas in the finals, that right there is a major mark against him. As for MJ, he’s undefeated. Your best player MIA in the NBA finals and he calls himself the GOAT. Can’t see it.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

In my world the GOAT doesn't quit on his team in the NBA finals like Lebron did last spring. And then showing up to the presser flaunting a massive cast as a prop to try and justify his actions? Pathetic.

Absolutely insulting to even consider this clown in the same class as a warrior like MJ.

 

[AWilli6995]

You can but you’re a bandwagon, front runner. Probably a Yankees and Patriots fan also.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

It's pretty amazing how passionate people are while discussing Lebron James. If you don't think he's the GOAT, you have alternative reasons. If you do think he's the GOAT, you're a fvcking moron.

He's an undeniable talent that anyone would want to have on their team. But he has obvious flaws that make the argument that he is not the best of all time. If you are making your decision based on his politics, that's not very reasonable. He is definitely not likeable, IMO. But mostly because of his snootiness on the court and how he flails around sometimes or how he whines with that shit face he makes when he doesn't get the treatment he wants. But on pure basketball talent, he is number one or number two. Really not a winnable argument for either side.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

In my world the GOAT doesn't quit on his team in the NBA finals like Lebron did last spring. And then showing up to the presser flaunting a massive cast as a prop to try and justify his actions? Pathetic.

Absolutely insulting to even consider this clown in the same class as a warrior like MJ.

So MJ quit on his team to play baseball, Lebron quit on his team in the finals, who does that make your GOAT? Magic?

 

[WeAreDePaul]

So MJ quit on his team to play baseball, Lebron quit on his team in the finals, who does that make your GOAT? Magic?

Retiring AFTER the season for whatever reason you want after you just led your team to 3 straight titles is not quitting. You really need that ****** logic pointed out to you? No wonder you couldn't get into Michigan and had to settle for Ferris Buehler University.

Also, according to your "logic" it couldn't be Magic either since he quit on his team to pursue AIDS.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Retiring AFTER the season for whatever reason you want after you just led your team to 3 straight titles is not quitting. You really need that ****** logic pointed out to you? No wonder you couldn't get into Michigan and had to settle for Ferris Buehler University.

Also, according to your "logic" it couldn't be Magic either since he quit on his team to pursue AIDS.

It's a shame that this is the route you choose to take things, man. My post wasn't rude or aggressive and you come back with this? A bit trolly, sure, but this thread is filled with 7 pages of people trolling MJ/LBJ. To resort to personal attacks over my post is not a good look. Happy New Years to you.

 

[AWilli6995]

So MJ quit on his team to play baseball, Lebron quit on his team in the finals, who does that make your GOAT? Magic?

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

This is the correct response to my post. There's no need to get personal over it.

 

[IUfanBorden]

It's a shame that this is the route you choose to take things, man. My post wasn't rude or aggressive and you come back with this? A bit trolly, sure, but this thread is filled with 7 pages of people trolling MJ/LBJ. To resort to personal attacks over my post is not a good look. Happy New Years to you.

I gotta agree with ya, Hail.

 

[IUfanBorden]

So MJ quit on his team to play baseball, Lebron quit on his team in the finals, who does that make your GOAT? Magic?

Meh.....

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Meh.....

 

[Random UK Fan]

Damn! I posted the OP this AM, went on a day trip, came back to this board and this thing has gone 7 pages?!

 

[IUfanBorden]

So MJ quit on his team to play baseball,

At least he didn't hold a press conference, proclaiming he was taking his talents to..............


The Birmingham Barons..

 

[Random UK Fan]

Meh...Jordan's desire to win was unrivaled. One of the biggest difference's to me, is Michael demanded the best from his teammates. LeBron demanded better teammates, i.e. super teams, etc, etc..Nothing wrong with either. Just to me, one speaks louder than the other. LeBron made the decision to jump around. SHopping for rings IMO. Jordan held the course s Chicago built mostly through the draft. I understand MJ had a better supporting cast, for the most part...But lets not forget, LeBron had Bosh and Wade, at Miami. That's as good of a trio than Mike had while in Chitown. Not to mention that MJ won titles in an era where centers were centers, and played huge roles. Jordan had Bill Cartwright and Will Perdue. I know, I know...Scottie Pippen/Dennis Rodman. But Wade and Bosh....I mean, that's a solid 1/2 counter. I'm not so sure you can argue MJ doesn't win the titles he won, with the talent LeBron had. I mean you substitute MJ for LeBron, in Miami---with Bosh and Wade? Goodness. Put him on a team Irving, Love and Thompson? Yeah---he's winning.

Speaking of NBA finals track record. MJ went to 6. WON 6. Never went past a Game 6. Had he not retired, its conceivable the Bulls could have won 7, 8 or 9 straight. James has gotten there frequently. And that's impressive. He's also lost frequently...That is not.

IMO, biggest difference was MJ's desire to win. To push guys. Demanded it. To me, that's what sets MJ apart. Dude was just an assassin.

 

[UL_1986]

I don’t think he’s wrong for thinking that. I also don’t think people are wrong for saying Jordan is the GOAT. They’re both amazing players and we’re lucky to have witnessed either of them play at such a high level for almost all of the last 30+ years.

This.

 

[UL_1986]

LeBron rustles many people, it’s funny.

 

[IUfanBorden]

LeBron rustles many people, it’s funny.

On here? Who?

 

[Random UK Fan]

@Dattier - I have to say man, you have upped your response/brutality game. No offense to anyone you've played verbal ping-pong with, but some of your retorts have had me rolling! Something seems pleasantly "different". There's an eye-of-the-tiger edge I haven't noticed before.

Did you go to a camp or something?! You've developed some claws!

 

[UL_1986]

On here? Who?

It’s quite obvious, but mostly people in comment sections on social media.

 

[IUfanBorden]

LeBron is a Ray Allen missed 3 and a Draymond Green suspension away from being 1-8 in the Finals....

Just saying...This<> close to only having ONE title.

 

[IUfanBorden]

It’s quite obvious, but mostly people in comment sections on social media.

Outside of social media, can you fill me in on this obvious answer?

 

[WeAreDePaul]

It's a shame that this is the route you choose to take things, man. My post wasn't rude or aggressive and you come back with this? A bit trolly, sure, but this thread is filled with 7 pages of people trolling MJ/LBJ. To resort to personal attacks over my post is not a good look. Happy New Years to you.

#victim