That's where you are wrong. The "truth" you say, is the Jeffy truth. Doesn't mean it is validated by any other person or an actual documented fact. It is YOUR opinion.
Hurt To Duke
- Thread starter kl40504
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Jeff. You've already admitted that it was your jealousy of the coverage Duke got that upset you. Stop trying to use stats to make your bitterness seem reasonable.
Let's look at Reddish. He averaged 13.5 points a game. And so what that he was inconsistent, right? Well he didn't score his average in any tournament game. Seeing how close two of our wins were and our loss was, I wouldn't just say so what. Would have been nice if he scored 10 points against MSU instead of 8. That might have made the difference. But anyways, let's keep looking at this 13.5 ppg since paper stats are the only real measure of success here. It's not like he got that 13.5 by being a reliable, yet modest scorer. That would have been better. It's always better to know what you're going to get out of someone. He did that by having 8 games with 20+. I am not complaining about getting 8 games of 20+ from a freshman. The problem here is he had 13 games in single digits. He had 21 games where he didn't reach his average in points. So that is 17 games that he scored 14 or more. So yeah, who cares if he was inconsistent when we can be lazy and just look at his averages.
Let's look at Reddish. He averaged 13.5 points a game. And so what that he was inconsistent, right? Well he didn't score his average in any tournament game. Seeing how close two of our wins were and our loss was, I wouldn't just say so what. Would have been nice if he scored 10 points against MSU instead of 8. That might have made the difference. But anyways, let's keep looking at this 13.5 ppg since paper stats are the only real measure of success here. It's not like he got that 13.5 by being a reliable, yet modest scorer. That would have been better. It's always better to know what you're going to get out of someone. He did that by having 8 games with 20+. I am not complaining about getting 8 games of 20+ from a freshman. The problem here is he had 13 games in single digits. He had 21 games where he didn't reach his average in points. So that is 17 games that he scored 14 or more. So yeah, who cares if he was inconsistent when we can be lazy and just look at his averages.
Exactly and there's no reason for anyone to get bent out of shape over.
I'll say this, I have no problem with anyone that wants to say that UK/Cal underachieved with that 2010 team. Any team with Wall, Bledsoe and Cousins should get to a FF. That one hurt. 2015 hurt worse, but they at least made it to a FF.
I don't think any of us have a problem saying Duke underachieved. That's just it. You (not only you) just aren't understanding how Duke fans, while believing that they were a very good team, did not find it to be the biggest surprise ever that they lost, or the biggest failure ever as some like to paint it. Not making it to the FF is definitely a disappointment. But the way you are acting about Duke is exactly what you said you were tired of from the sports media. You are letting your bitterness towards them effect your ability to reflect on what kind of team Duke was.
It's just funny that a Kentucky fan is making this argument. Kings of the youth excuse.
Using your logic, and assuming that Cal can coach, you should have breezed to the title in 2010, 2014 and 2015. And some other teams should have gone deeper.
Guess K and Cal are both failures.
That's all good and well and I see the point you are trying to make, but let's take a look at Texas Tech. Culver, their best player and only pro prospect, averaged 18ppg, but against Michigan State, he only scored 10 points, went 3-12 from the field and had 2 assists. But TT won by 10.
Again, Culver was their best player, he got shut down and they still won, Reddish was Duke's 3rd option.
I'll say this, the NCAAT is more pressure than most freshmen can handle. It happened to UK too. Herro was a ghost against Wofford and Auburn, Hagans might as well have been wearing Auburn's jersey, he had more assists for them than he did UK, Montgomery disappeared and Quickly wilted.
So yeah, trying to win with freshmen playing key roles is damn near impossible, but 2019 Duke had not one, but two transcendent players + coach K.
We may never see another Zion again. He's a once in a lifetime talent, K had the pieces, he just didn't get the job done. Calipari did the same thing in 2010, but nobody is claiming Cal is the GOAT.
Probably has something to do with him being 4 titles and 8 Final Fours short of being in the conversation.
There's a little bit of bitterness with the media. K has had the most talent these last few years and keeps coming up short. The media stays quiet, but that's after they pumped Duke all year like they were the 96 Bulls.
However, I just think it's funny that the comments now are that Duke really wasn't as good as non Duke fans thought and the roster was flawed when the truth is that Duke was the best team with the most talent and the best coach. I didn't see any Duke fans disputing these claims until after they lost.
The bottom line is Duke had 4 legit scorers, two of them were elite scorers and one of them was a once in a lifetime talent, but they lost to a team that was depleted by injuries and lost their next game by 10.
Sorry, but there is going to he critisism when that happens.
No doubt. But my point is, Cal takes a beating when he comes up short, K's failures get swept under the rug.
Cal was ruining college basketball when he started the one and done stuff, but as soon as k started doing it, we haven't heard a peep out of the "One and done is ruining college basketball" crowd.
I don't know. I don't really pay much attention to that stuff. Did you read those articles that @TheDude1 posted in response to you earlier ITT? Those all seemed to be saying what you think nobody else was saying all year about Duke.
So why did KenPom have duke's offense rated top 5? He wasn't playing favorites, Duke had one of the most efficient offenses in the country. They also had a top 5 rated defense.
Duke didn’t just have 2 legit scorers, legit scorers are guys that average 10+ a game, Duke had two guys that averaged 22.6ppg… .TWENTY TWO POINT SIX POINTS PER GAME, that's not just "legit", that's elite and Duke had 2 of them.
Reddish at 13.5 was a legit scorer, Zion and RJ were elite. Defenses in "the greatest conference in the country" tried to slow those two guys down all season and couldn't do it.
I just can't believe you guys are going to sit here and belittle the weapons that K had at his disposal this year. He had more firepower on both ends of the court than anyone else and it wasn't close.
This is hilarious.
No, I'm calling a spade a spade, you guys are the ones making excuses and trying to protect coach K.
I still think he's the best coach, but that doesn't mean he should avoid criticism for not making the FF with what he had.
Yeah, everyone was saying it all year. Listen, ESPN was blowing the balls out of us (and specifically Zion) all year, but everyone who paid attention was VERY aware of Duke's shortcomings.
And yes, Cal took a ton of shit about ruining college basketball. He sort of started the entire idea of multiple OADs, and its tough that he had to take that shit. Turns out he didn't really deserve it. But that doesn't mean you then turn around and start being a douche because you are mad about something from the past. Two wrongs don't make a right.
No, I didn't read all that, I am going to try to purchase the cliffs notes on Amazon. Sheesh.
Quit looking at averages. Games against Eastern Michigan, Kentucky and other div II teams help pad those averages. Look at the tournament. Look at the last game. Duke had 5 players score in that game. Jones had 4 pts, Reddish doubled him up with 8. Javin had 10, 6 were on putbacks. This is just getting silly. Looking back, Duke may have overachieved. Their defense is what made them great.
Except nobody is "protecting K." That's just so dumb. The media has LITERALLY been discussing this.
https://www.theringer.com/march-madness/2019/4/1/18290521/duke-coach-k-one-and-done-failure
https://www.sbnation.com/college-ba...-march-madness-michigan-state-ncaa-tournament
https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/duke-historically-failed-this-year-because-of-coach-k
https://www.si.com/college-basketba...-rj-barrett-coach-k-michigan-state-final-four
https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...ketball-Coach-K-NCAA-March-Madness-130805298/
You keep insisting that Cam Reddish was some great third scoring option. He wasn't. You clearly didn't watch Duke and don't know what you are talking about; he is maybe the biggest recruiting dud I've seen at Duke.
Duke had an amazing duo in Zion and RJ. But the rest of the cast didn't live up to expectations.
As for K, sure, he could have made changes. But those of us who are not short sighted morons realize that the difference between the Final Four and not was about 1 percentage point in shooting for a single team in a single game.
Whatever, I'm done with you. You are a ****ing moron. A butt-hurt-by-Duke-and-K-and-ESPN moron.
He ignores anything that damages his argument. Because then he'd have to stop typing inane short stories that everybody skims at best.
Sorry you think I'm mad, that's funny, I'm not. This has nothing to do with the media or what was said about Calipari. I listed those things, but those were examples of how K gets a pass while others get run down.
You say that Duke had flaws, well duh, everyone had flaws. michigan State was missing 2 key players and a 3rd (Ward) had a fractured hand.
But, how can you say Duke wasn't as good as ESPN, Bilas, Greenburg and Jay Williams said? Kenpom had duke top 5 in offensive and defensive efficiency.
Show me a stat that proves that Duke was somehow flawed. You can't. That team had more talent, more elite scorers, the best coach, a once in a lifetime player, a defensive POY candidate (Bilas said he was the best perimeter defender in the country) and more resources than any other school, but actually should have lost in the third round against CFU.
The media definitely dragged duke's nutsack across our faces all season long, but facts are facts, Duke was the favorite to win the title (again) and it was supposed to be close. They were a top 5 rated offense according to KP, but you guys are trying to say duke had a flawed offense because they only had 2 elite scorers.
Unreal.
I mean, you should read the articles he’s posting. They really don’t help your argument here ITT unless you think the media is only limited to Jay Williams and Jay Bilas.
Critisism. It's the only explanation that makes sense. He's the one that looks bad here, he's supposed to be the GOAT, but since they.lost, you guys are putting the blame on Reddish and anyone else that didn't score enough points.From who? From what?
It's funny to see you duke fans backpeddling now.
How about two of them?
Duke was 327th in three point shooting this year, 320 spots lower than Virginia and 259 spots lower than Texas Tech.
Duke was 252nd in free throw shooting this year, 200 spots lower than Virginia and 150 spots lower than Texas Tech.
I just did, same way I showed you how many people saw Duke's flaws, but you are too busy being an idiot to actually... you know... read.
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We didn’t have 4 legit scorers. We wished we did, and many Duke fans kept thinking the light was going to come on for Cam and stay on. That didn’t happen. His average is very deceptive. The kid was not consistent.
Zion and RJ made the offense look more efficient than it was. Zion was probably the most efficient player in the country.
The media pumped Duke up, and some of our fans bought it back early in the season. But the rational fan begged for someone else to step up.
If you want to blame some on K, go ahead. But if I’m being honest, Herro was much better than Cam.
Give him all the fair and deserved criticism he deserves. You just are doing a shit job of it. Just because a team doesn't live up to ridiculous standards set by people who make a living off of hyping athletes, doesn't mean that the coach failed. Obviously there were some games where K didn't adjust, and there are some arguments to be made that Duke may have faired better had he made some changes here and there. But to just say, you had Zion and Barrett and didn't even make it to the FF, that means this was the biggest choke job by a coach ever, is just ignorant.
Let me ask you this. Did Calipari choke this year?
BTW, I love this moron's bullshit... Duke fans backpeddling NOW?
Here is a thread I started on the Duke home forum about our team regressing as the year went on, that I posted during the regular season.
https://duke.forums.rivals.com/threads/development-regression-of-our-role-players.10858218/
And here is a thread I started on the Duke home forum about how badly Cam Reddish was playing, posted BACK IN DECEMBER.
https://duke.forums.rivals.com/threads/cams-struggles.10857508/
And here is one about our offense being too static, from November.
https://duke.forums.rivals.com/threads/our-offense-felt-a-bit-static.10857345/
And here is one about Alex O'Connell, who was expected to be a big player off the bench, not contributing, also from November.
https://duke.forums.rivals.com/threads/a-little-surprised-about-aoc.10857322/
But sure, nobody noticed any problems with Duke until after we lost to MSU.
"Whatever, I'm done with you. You are a ****ing moron. A butt-hurt-by-Duke-and-K-and-ESPN moron"
Why are you so upset? Jeez man, can you have a conversation without hurling insults?
Then you're just going to take your ball and go home huh?
It's just a message board, don't get so rustled.
You are a terrible troll.
I was not insulting you; I was merely being factual.
And if you think I'm the one coming off as upset in these conversations... well, why don't you tell us more about where your vile is coming from?
Just show us on the doll where K and ESPN touched you.
Wow, more name calling.
So why was Duke rated top 5 in offensive efficiency if they sucked so bad from three point range and the ft line?
Must mean they were incredibly elite at all other aspects by my count.
There are plenty of examples on THIS board of most of the regular Duke fans going back months ago. Even in the middle of the hype. But I am not doing his leg work.
I'm just as relaxed as can be. You don't seesee my calling you names. You seem very upset for no reason. Do you want to talk about your anger issues?
I'm no troll, sorry you feel that way.
This has already been explained to you by multiple people. You're either incredibly dense or a deliberate fool.
do you know any other insults besides "moron"?
You're really rustled over my opinion.
Has to be
Has to be deliberate. Even a UK fan should be able to understand this.
Yup, Calipari defininitely choked this year. So did PJ Washington. Missing free throws cost UK the last two years.
Cal Also choked in 2010 and 2015.
But he did a great job in 11, 12, 14 and 17.
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