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How good is this Gonzaga team?

Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
They are good but it's a watered down era. They have no shot blocking no real tough guys down low... and really there is nobody in today's game getting dirty if they ran into a team with a Kenyon Martin mindset who knows how they'd react.

These guys have a nice free flowing offense their guys are no doubt skilled the shooting %'s are thru the roof...but I question how they'd handle getting knocked around. Nobody does that these days. Instead of wanting to compete guys just want to transfer, if you can't beat 'em join 'em!

RollLaugh
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This is kind of why I think next year could be even better. They'll have Chet and Kessler as rim protection. They can be truly dominant on defense. It'll be interesting to see how the offense is.
 
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Original_Irish said:
This is kind of why I think next year could be even better. They'll have Chet and Kessler as rim protection. They can be truly dominant on defense. It'll be interesting to see how the offense is.
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Big picture - they have perhaps become the "it" program right now, for sure. And I applaud Few for putting together a monster in Spokane of all places.

It just gets tricky trying to cross/compare programs in different eras.
 
ExitFlagger said:
We're giving opinions, right?

My opinion is that 09 UNC wasn't as dominant as they looked relative to the field. Kenpom would seem to back that up. Same for 2012 Kentucky. They didn't exactly face a gauntlet that year.

I think this Gonzaga team looks more dominant than they would in many years past, but I think they're better than either of those teams.
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I do not agree Gonzaga has played better competition than either of those teams and I don’t think it’s close. Carolina in the ACC is proof enough for me. Kentucky played a tough schedule. Actual roads games as well. This Gonzaga team might crack my top 10 of the 2000s. Might.
 
Original_Irish said:
This is kind of why I think next year could be even better. They'll have Chet and Kessler as rim protection. They can be truly dominant on defense. It'll be interesting to see how the offense is.
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You think they'll be better without the big three?

LOL. Seems pretty unlikely.
 
Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
Big picture - they have perhaps become the "it" program right now, for sure. And I applaud Few for putting together a monster in Spokane of all places.

It just gets tricky trying to cross/compare programs in different eras.
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Ya I just think it's funny how people choose to compare eras. No one had a problem with this era in the 2019 season as many of the good teams came from the ACC. But since the ACC hasn't been awesome the last two years, college basketball as a whole isn't very good.

Everyone wanted to crown that 2019 Duke team that ran a middle school offense and couldn't shoot. But this Zags team has 3 potential first rounders too and they play beautiful offense.
 
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Not change subjects.
What the hell happened to Kentucky this year!?
They finished with a losing season this year overall and in conference. That had not happened since 1989.
They have a real good coach and great talent. I was shocked to see how much they stunk this year. I think they'll be back next season tho. This year was a hiccup for them.
 
JimboBBN said:
I do not agree Gonzaga has played better competition than either of those teams and I don’t think it’s close. Carolina in the ACC is proof enough for me. Kentucky played a tough schedule. Actual roads games as well. This Gonzaga team might crack my top 10 of the 2000s. Might.
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I'm not saying that Gonzaga has played better competition. I just think they're probably better than those teams. And I don't think those teams would have looked nearly as dominant in '08, '10, '15, '17, etc.
 
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Original_Irish said:
Ya I just think it's funny how people choose to compare eras. No one had a problem with this era in the 2019 season as many of the good teams came from the ACC. But since the ACC hasn't been awesome the last two years, college basketball as a whole isn't very good.

Everyone wanted to crown that 2019 Duke team that ran a middle school offense and couldn't shoot. But this Zags team has 3 potential first rounders too and they play beautiful offense.
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I think the game has been in decline for years. But I can't lie, I am a hater. Though oddly I respect a lot of programs.

Some of these teams are just so bad, and they should be. Players bounce don't stick around to learn a system, etc.
 
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ExitFlagger said:
You think they'll be better without the big three?

LOL. Seems pretty unlikely.
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Maybe, but not really. They are bringing in the #1 overall recruit, the #7 overall recruit, and a 5 star from the previous class too.

Also those scrubs that Few brings in at the end of games are all highly rated freshmen.
 
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Original_Irish said:
Ya I just think it's funny how people choose to compare eras. No one had a problem with this era in the 2019 season as many of the good teams came from the ACC. But since the ACC hasn't been awesome the last two years, college basketball as a whole isn't very good.

Everyone wanted to crown that 2019 Duke team that ran a middle school offense and couldn't shoot. But this Zags team has 3 potential first rounders too and they play beautiful offense.
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The Zags run their offense real well. Fast breaks are almost NBA like. They also play good defense now, that used to be their weakness in the past.
 
dukedevilz said:
Here are the top 25 KenPom teams of all-time (20th season). This Gonzaga team is evidently okay.

Top25-Ken-Pom-All-Time.png
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My issue with using KenPom is that you're comparing teams from different eras of college basketball. I truly believe that the 2021 field of college basketball is meaningfully worse than the 2001 field of college basketball so the fact that the Zags efficiency ratings are so high is somewhat diluted for me.

Would this Zags team really be a favorite over 2001 Duke which was the year before KenPom started it rankings? Or 2018 Nova? Or 2009 UNC? Or 2008 KU?
 
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ExitFlagger said:
I'm not saying that Gonzaga has played better competition. I just think they're probably better than those teams. And I don't think those teams would have looked nearly as dominant in '08, '10, '15, '17, etc.
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Agree to disagree. I think 09 Carolina and 12 Kentucky would win more times than not against this team.
 
Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
Seriously though he absolutely changed games defensively like no other player in decades.
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Ya no doubt, he was really good defensively. But Mobly is gonna get drafted top 3 and his NBA comp is Anthony Davis. And USC had the #1 2pt% defense because of the Mobly brothers and it didn't seem to bother Timme.
 
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They are exceptionally good, definitely the best team this year. Though this is an one and done tournament, so anything can happen. We've seen 1991 UNLV and 2015 UK failing to win it all, its not best of seven and one bad game will end all the good things you have. Lets wait and see, a truly great team will be able to prepare for this kind of pressure and overcome every adversity.
 
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thebasketballreasons said:
They are exceptionally good, definitely the best team this year. Though this is an one and done tournament, so anything can happen. We've seen 1991 UNLV and 2015 UK failing to win it all, its not best of seven and one bad game will end all the good things you have. Lets wait and see, a truly great team will be able to prepare for this kind of pressure and overcome every adversity.
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That 1991 UNLV team was coming off a NC (1990) the yr before. It's very hard to repeat as NC in mens hoops. Florida (2000s) and UCLA (1970s) were the last ones to do so recently. Duke as well (early '90s) when they knocked off UNLV.
Well, TBH, hard to repeat in most sports.
 
bignish said:
How would Teague stop Suggs? Could TJones stop Kispert? Nembhardt and Ayayi are way better than Lamb and Miller.
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Could Kispert stop Jones? Kentucky had the best perimeter defender and post defender in the country. Lamb is so ridiculously underrated it's not even funny. Miller was a starter every year until MKG came in and was really good too. Suggs is the only player on that team that's a lot better than the UK player.

I think Gonzaga is as good as any team in the last 20 YEARS but some matchups would be worse than others.
 
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Gonzaga is just a joy to watch play...so under control...so many different ways to bet you. The entire team seems to know what they are trying to do and does not panic when their first option is taken away. The defense is much better than I thought but really it is extremely entertaining basketball.

On the KENPOM list...did he not include teams from 2020?
 
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RR30 said:
Could Kispert stop Jones? Kentucky had the best perimeter defender and post defender in the country. Lamb is so ridiculously underrated it's not even funny. Miller was a starter every year until MKG came in and was really good too. Suggs is the only player on that team that's a lot better than the UK player.

I think Gonzaga is as good as any team in the last 20 YEARS but some matchups would be worse than others.
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I don't disagree with much of this. It is a matchup game and Gonzaga has been fortunate that they haven't had to go up against teams with more dominant post play.
 
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Original_Irish said:
I don't disagree with much of this. It is a matchup game and Gonzaga has been fortunate that they haven't had to go up against teams with more dominant post play.
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Their defense is a weak point, but I'm not sure it would matter considering how damn good they are offensively.
 
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RR30 said:
Their defense is a weak point, but I'm not sure it would matter considering how damn good they are offensively.
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It's not their strong point for sure. But regardless, the team that is playing them has to figure out how to score 80+ to beat them. And that's easier said than done.
 
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cooljeff said:
t they are trying to do and does not panic when their first option is taken away. The defense is much better than I thought but really it is extremely entertaining basketball.

On the KENPOM list...did he not include teams from 2020?
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I complied the list myself. Kansas '20 had an Adjusted Efficiency Margin of 30.23, which is a little below Florida's 30.81, for 25th all-time.
 
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Original_Irish said:
Ya no doubt, he was really good defensively. But Mobly is gonna get drafted top 3 and his NBA comp is Anthony Davis. And USC had the #1 2pt% defense because of the Mobly brothers and it didn't seem to bother Timme.
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Mobley us just not on par with Anthony Davis at same stage. It's not really close there. I get it. You like these Zags. No biggie. I hate everybody. Including Anthony Davis.
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
Mobley us just not on par with Anthony Davis at same stage. It's not really close there. I get it. You like these Zags. No biggie. I hate everybody. Including Anthony Davis.
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Mobley is really good but you shouldn't ever really compare players to the best players of the last 20 years.
 
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