Helms Titles
- Thread starter Five Nattys
- Start date
The schedule results tell you what you need to know about the competition. That’s the point I’m making. You know who beat good teams and who beat bad teams.
There would be no world where Helms would’ve considered JMU for the championship, because they’d see the competition they played.
The idea that the championships were awarded without consideration of strength of schedule is bunk. The idea that you need intimate knowledge of the sport to assess strength of schedule is inaccurate.
The idea that you can’t crown a champion without a championship game I guess is the problem for you guys?
If that’s a problem, why are we okay with most seasons ending without the two best teams ever playing each other? We’ve crowned champions who sometimes didn’t face a top 5 or 10 team the whole tournament.
Back to my original argument, what about evaluating strength of schedule and wins to determine the best team is more or less silly than a tournament that often doesn’t pit the best teams against each other?
If that’s a problem, why are we okay with most seasons ending without the two best teams ever playing each other? We’ve crowned champions who sometimes didn’t face a top 5 or 10 team the whole tournament.
Back to my original argument, what about evaluating strength of schedule and wins to determine the best team is more or less silly than a tournament that often doesn’t pit the best teams against each other?
You guys were just playing against schools for the blind and deaf, I guess.
LOL. No, a fan of the supposed greatest program of all time should not brag regularly about that one time they beat the eventual champ in January. Even fans of most mid-level programs don’t do that. Then again, Calipari’s record against ranked teams the past several years is worse than a midmajor’s, so I get it.
Speaking of dumb statements, hasn’t Calipari won an extremely high percentage of games in Rupp? Also, in case you weren’t aware, those four games weren’t all played in the last few years.
Watching you twist yourself into a pretzel is solid entertainment.
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Why am I arguing about this? Haha. Got lost in the sauce.
At the end of the day, who cares
At the end of the day, who cares
Because it was just a random group of guys deciding who the best teams were and they did it many years after the fact.
In a tournament, it is proven on the court, if you lose, you are out, but at least your team controlled its own destiny.
Nobody is bragging about 'the eventual champion', like always, you're making shit up.
UK fans are simply bragging about a 20 point win against a top 5 team in what might be the toughest place to get a win. That’s it. But nice try.
Kansas fans, they want to say they have 6 titles so they feel more relevant.
Yeah but the teams pre-1939 controlled their destiny in the regular season. Beat good teams a lot and you become the best team.
I don't agree with the premise that the NCAA tourney doesn't pit the best teams playing each other. They're all in the tourney, all they have to do is win the games in front of them to prove they are in fact the best team.
If the two best teams (according to subjective standards) don't face off in the championship game then I would argue that they weren't the two best teams.
if it was a round robin or playoff series style tournament, I’d see your point. Those are designed to parse out the best teams. The NCAAT is not designed to determine the best team. That’s just what we have so that’s what we go by.
round robin would be really cool. 4 team pods, each team plays each other. Top 2 teams advance to S16.
Then they could even pod the S16 and do it again. Top team advances to F4. From there I would say single elimination is sufficient.
Issues:
Format would ruin betting pools which are a massive part of the overall interest in the tourney.
Would add extra games (not a major issue)
There would still be injuries and reasons why people would claim such and such team had a much easier path than such and such team
Then, since we've established that play on the court/field matters most of all and agree there, they should have proven it on the field (by playing somebody).
I remember Kentucky fans routinely pulling that card in pissing matches after the tourney. “Yeah, you’re national champions, but we beat your asses in Lawrence! Take that!” 😂
Hilarious that somebody could say that with a straight face, let alone repeat it endlessly. There's definitely no ambiguity about what your Super Bowl is.
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Not true, of course. Only insecure UK fans bring it up.
And KU's more relevant than Kentucky in the modern era no matter how you slice it.
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I think a bunch of us UK fans ought to just retroactively claim UK the champs those years. Means about as much as some pud with flour on his balls.Yeah, you read Wikipedia, which is what I just did.
This was just group of guys that formed a fan group and went back in time and made picks on who they thought was the best team each year.
From what I can tell, none of these guys knows squat bout basketball, they were just fans, like us. It’s all opinions by non basketball guys. So basically, it's fake.
Wiki link:
Helms Athletic Foundation - Wikipedia
Helms Athletic Foundation - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
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“Our Super Bowl” lol. We led KU this year by quite a few points with a couple of our tallest guys on the bench still. If Bradshaw had played, KU would have lost. HD isn’t the superstar center you like to pretend he is. He’s just taller than most other players - except Bradshaw. We wouldn’t be bragging about beating you. No UK fan would be dancing like it’d be the first time we’ve beaten you guys. It’s not uncommon.
We didn’t just beat you at your place. We jizzed in your hair too.
Considering you've won 2 of your last 8 vs KU, going back a decade, I'd say it's pretty uncommon. 5 of 14 vs Self. 8 of 19 vs KU in the modern era. With a 55 pt loss in there. 🤣
Outside of catching KU on an off night, like a few years ago, you basically need one of the most talented rosters of all time to get it done.
Well it’s happened often enough to know that even our short handed teams with a bunch of kids who were at prom a few months earlier had no trouble going up a dozen or so points on KU this year. Was that just an “off night” for KU too or was it just due to our short bench?
Holy shit. Now you’re bragging about having a lead in a game you lost.
I don’t even have to say anything. I can just sit back and watch you make fools of yourselves. 😂
I dont see anybody bragging. We lost because Bradshaw didnt play. The whole country saw that. It’s the perfect illustration that the entire sports world watched a bunch of short handed freshman hand KU their asses for a while until the lack of Bradshaw was just the missing factor. KU escaped. No brag. We all saw it.
Look at this excuse factory. In Self’s only loss in Rupp, he was without Azubuike. A far better player than Bradshaw. Unlike you, we don’t cry about it and make excuses.
Did it ever occur to you that Bradshaw playing would have taken points and rebounds away from Thiero’s career night?
Kentucky has six players projected to be drafted higher than anyone on KU’s roster. How much talent does Calipari need to compete with Bill? 😂
Evidently he just needs a bunch of kids that just got out of prom. Also, SHOWCASING HELMS TITLES!!! RollLaughRollLaughRollLaugh
UCF's self-awarded FB title is more legit than a Helmans Mayo banner.
Just think….you’re probably only one or two generational talents away from cracking 35% next time!Evidently he just needs a bunch of kids that just got out of prom. Also, SHOWCASING HELMS TITLES!!! RollLaughRollLaughRollLaugh
Why is anyting before 1939, nonsense? No different than football. Not to mention, up until the mid-50's, the NIT was considered the more prestigious tournament. So what is more important----NCAA titles from 1939 to say 1960, OR Nit titles from 1938 to 1960?
I am not talking about all 16 of Alabama's titles.....12 were "won" before BCS/CFP. WHo is disputing Bama's titles in 79, 1992, etc, etc...
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Do better research...
Paul Helms was from Cali, bro....Helms Athletic FOundation's headquarters was in LA.....
Helms Hall in LA is/ws widely considered the best Sports Museum in the country. It was developed by William Schroder----also from LA.
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Lol Alabama and football awared titles based off polls THAT YEAR. Helms went back 15-20-30 years later and retroactively awared a ''national title''. Kentucky has 7 helms titles btw. Lol.
One of those ''national titles'' Kansas claims they lost to missouri that year or lost the conference to missouri forgot now. Just lmfao.
It used to be '88 & '08, but now I'm pretty sure my two favorite titles are whentfever Kansas "won" those bread tittttttttles. Woooooo Rock Chalk, bitties.
It doesn't matter that the tournament isn’t 'the best way' to determine a champion, but it is, by far, the most logical way.
You can’t do a best of 3, 5, or 7, it's not practical, but it’s still far better than a group of dudes determining champions 10, 20 and 30 years after the fact.
I don't even see how that's debatable. They proved it on the court.
What do you do with football then? At 4 teams in the playoff, the 5th team has an argument. Now, they're going to 12 teams. Should they do best of 3 there?
The NFL doesn't do that. In fact, there are always some NFL teams that make the playoffs with far worse records than teams that weren't even 'in the hunt'.
They don't get to choose their schedule.
JMU did challenge themselves though, they played at Michigan state, who just blew the doors off Baylor.
