For those craving some college basketball in early August

[ExitFlagger]

I didn't compare SEC teams to KU. I was saying that teams not named Kentucky have one more title throughout history than B12 teams not named KU. Remember, you were rambling on about no one in the Big 12 having titles.

Since 2000, the Big 12 teams not named KU have more final fours than the SEC outside of Kentucky. And I won't be able to find the stat anywhere, but I'm relatively certain they have more overall tourney wins. Yet you keep telling me that the SEC is "much more accomplished." Pure homerism. The only way you can spin the SEC being much more accomplished than any power conference is by including Kentucky. But, last I checked, Kentucky doesn't have to play themselves.

And the fact that you're arrogantly boasting about the SEC winning the B12 challenge for the first time ever? Funny.

You made a hell of a case for the SEC being "simply better." Nice job.

BTW, I'm sick of hearing about poor Cal having to "roll the dice" with 20 5-star freshmen every year. Nearly any coach would trade rosters with him in ANY given year. If that fool is struggling so much with his annual roster of 13 of the most talented players in the country, maybe he should change up his recruiting strategy? But we all know it's just a lame excuse and UK fans wouldn't change anything about his recruiting.

Self won the Big 12 with an extremely young roster (with less heralded recruits than the average Calipari haul) in '06. Oh, and he also beat Kentucky by about 30 with that team. He's won it with other teams that were young. Lame card to pull.

As for the history of losing to midmajors, that might hold some water if Self hadn't won 13 straight vs Calipari, K, Roy and Huggins (several being in the tourney), and if KU weren't #1 in tourney wins this millennium. Nice try.

 

[kyjeff1]

I didn't compare SEC teams to KU. I was saying that teams not named Kentucky have one more title throughout history than B12 teams not named KU. Remember, you were rambling on about no one in the Big 12 having titles.

Since 2000, the Big 12 teams not named KU have more final fours than the SEC outside of Kentucky. And I won't be able to find the stat anywhere, but I'm relatively certain they have more overall tourney wins. Yet you keep telling me that the SEC is "much more accomplished." Pure homerism. The only way you can spin the SEC being much more accomplished than any power conference is by including Kentucky. But, last I checked, Kentucky doesn't have to play themselves.

Oh, and the fact that you're arrogantly boasting about the SEC winning the B12 challenge for the first time ever? Pretty f***ing hilarious.

You really made a hell of a case for the SEC being "simply better." Nice job.

BTW, I'm sick of hearing about poor Cal having to "roll the dice" with 20 5-star freshmen every year. Nearly any coach would trade rosters with him in ANY given year. If that fool is struggling so much with his annual roster of 13 of the most talented players in the country, maybe he should change up his recruiting strategy? But we all know it's just a lame excuse and UK fans wouldn't change anything about his recruiting.

Self won the Big 12 with an extremely young roster (with less heralded recruits than the average Calipari haul) in 2006. Oh, and he also beat Kentucky by about 30 with that team. He's won it with other teams that were very young. Just a lame excuse.

As for the history of losing to midmajors, that might hold some water if y'know, Self hadn't won 13 straight vs Calipari, K, Roy and Huggins (several of which were in the tourney), and if KU weren't #1 in tourney wins this millennium. Nice try.

LOL, there's a lot of cherry picking in there. All the sudden it's "since 2000… .." Yeah whatever.
Remember, you're the one who has something to say about UK everytime you post. I'm just pointing out the fact that there are many flaws on KU's resume too.
But hey, enjoy KU's 15th straight BIG12 title, it's a no brainer this year, but it wouldn't happen if KU was in the SEC.

 

[ExitFlagger]

LOL, there's a lot of cherry picking in there. All the sudden it's "since 2000… .." Yeah whatever.
Remember, you're the one who has something to say about UK everytime you post. I'm just pointing out the fact that there are many flaws on KU's resume too.
But hey, enjoy KU's 15th straight BIG12 title, it's a no brainer this year, but it wouldn't happen if KU was in the SEC.

I like how it's supposed to be a burn to suggest that KU wouldn't win FIFTEEN straight in every conference. RollLaugh

I picked since 2000 because that was the timeframe used in the article I found. I'm not going to go through and count every tourney win or final four for each league.

Florida had a run a decade ago, and Arkansas had a decent run a decade before that. That's all you need to know about the SEC.

 

[kyjeff1]

I like how it's supposed to be a burn to suggest that KU wouldn't win FIFTEEN straight in every conference. RollLaugh

I picked since 2000 because that was the timeframe used in the article I found. I'm not going to go through and count every tourney win or final four for each league, sorry.

Florida had a little run a decade ago, and Arkansas had a decent run a decade before that. That's all you need to know about the SEC.

Florida was in the FF just a few years ago (2014), you know, the sme FF UK was in. Two SEC teams in the final four in the same year. Not bad for such a crap conference huh?
Your hatred for UK overrides the common sense part of your brain.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Florida was in the FF just a few years ago (2014), you know, the sme FF UK was in. Two SEC teams in the final four in the same year. Not bad for such a crap conference huh?
Your hatred for UK overrides the common sense part of your brain.

I wasn't implying that those were the only final fours.

What you don't realize is that my remarks about the SEC are in response to your fanbase's complete obsession with the B12. You guys consistently bag on the B12 for the sole purpose of downplaying KU's streak. Because you can't stand seeing another program get any recognition whatsoever. That's all it boils down to. Same reason you guys trash Duke and UNC relentlessly.

And I'm sure you'll say something about generalization, but your B12 comment could've been lifted straight off Rafters.

 

[Montana81]

outside of Kansas the big 12 only has 3 final fours since 2000. Texas 2003, Ok State 2004 and OU 2016.

The SEC has Florida 2006, 2007, 2014, LSU 2006 and South Carolina 2017.

Am I missing someone from the big 12? Oh yeah Oklahoma 2002.

The big 12 has been solid but it gets more hype than deserved. The SEC has gotten crapped on as a b-ball conference as long as I can remember as a counter argument to kentucky’s historical dominance of the sport(all time wins, tourney appearances, conference titles, etc).

Maybe it’s because I live in Louisville and I’m just used to hearing cardinal fans use that as their go to when trying to downplay how good Kentucky has been. But I see plenty of non uofl fans on here and other message boards use it as an excuse as well. And it’s actually a pretty weak argument upon closer examination.

While the big 12 has been solid outside of Kansas there’s no one other program that’s been great at any point for any amount of time. West Virginia has been very good another Huggins. Texas was solid under Barnes. Oklahoma has been strong off and on under Sampson and Kruger and had one good season under Capel with Blake griffin. Ok state has had some solid teams under Sutton. But none of those programs were as strong as Florida was under Donovan, or Arkansas under Nolan Richardson.

Florida and Arkansas were both perennial top 10 teams for extended periods of time with multiple final fours and a ship. Kansas has never had that level of competition in their conference.

 

[kyjeff1]

I wasn't implying that those were the only final fours.

What you don't realize is that my remarks about the SEC are in response to your fanbase's complete obsession with the B12. You guys consistently bag on the B12 for the sole purpose of downplaying KU's streak. Because you can't stand seeing another program get any recognition whatsoever. That's all it boils down to. Same reason you guys trash Duke and UNC relentlessly.

And I'm sure you'll say something about generalization, but your B12 comment could've been lifted straight off Rafters.

Personally, I think the streak is pretty amazing. I don't care what conference it is, winning 15 straight is an incredible accomplishment.
I just don't think the B12 is as good as it's thought to be.
In addition, I have zero hatred for KU or duke. UNC can kiss my ass, they cheated and got away with it.

 

[kyjeff1]

outside of Kansas the big 12 only has 3 final fours since 2000. Texas 2003, Ok State 2004 and OU 2016.

The SEC has Florida 2006, 2007, 2014, LSU 2006 and South Carolina 2017.

Am I missing someone from the big 12? Oh yeah Oklahoma 2002.

The big 12 has been solid but it gets more hype than deserved. The SEC has gotten crapped on as a b-ball conference as long as I can remember as a counter argument to kentucky’s historical dominance of the sport(all time wins, tourney appearances, conference titles, etc).

Maybe it’s because I live in Louisville and I’m just used to hearing cardinal fans use that as their go to when trying to downplay how good Kentucky has been. But I see plenty of non uofl fans on here and other message boards use it as an excuse as well. And it’s actually a pretty weak argument upon closer examination.

While the big 12 has been solid outside of Kansas there’s no one other program that’s been great at any point for any amount of time. West Virginia has been very good another Huggins. Texas was solid under Barnes. Oklahoma has been strong off and on under Sampson and Kruger and had one good season under Capel with Blake griffin. Ok state has had some solid teams under Sutton. But none of those programs were as strong as Florida was under Donovan, or Arkansas under Nolan Richardson.

Florida and Arkansas were both perennial top 10 teams for extended periods of time with multiple final fours and a ship. Kansas has never had that level of competition in their conference.

Add Florida 2000 to the list of SEC teams in the FF since 2000.

 

[ExitFlagger]

I'm sure Louisville fans do it for that reason, but the only time I've knocked the SEC was in response to B12 bashing. The way some talk, you'd think the SEC had won the Big 12/SEC challenge 9-1 every year.

I remember the SEC going something like 1-30 in major conference OOC games a few years back and losing the B12 challenge, and fans STILL bagged on the B12. That's the kind of thing that gets to me. If the B12 is mediocre (like it might be this year), I'm not going to sugarcoat it.

The B12 has gotten a surprising amount of national hype in recent years (probably overhyped at times), but in the past the hype always centered around the ACC and old Big East. I think national analysts have focused more on the B12 lately because there's been a steady string of exciting players like Trae Young, Buddy Hield, Griffin, Durant, Beasley, and some of the KU guys. Plus exciting games in recent years like the KU-OU triple OT game. And even though it hasn't produced many final four teams, it's had solid depth with almost every game being competitive.

The way I see it, the two leagues are pretty similar historically. The Big 12, as you said, hasn't had anyone make a run like Florida's recently (Oklahoma St won back to back in the 40s) but has several programs that are either historically solid or have had sporadic success at a pretty high level. K-State was actually considered near KU's stature until the 90s. Oklahoma's a solid program and would've won it all in '88 if not for being upset by a fellow Big 8 team.

I was wrong about the final four totals since 2000, but when you take out Kentucky and KU, the Big 12 has 23 final fours, SEC 18. Not sure about overall tourney or regular season wins.

Like I said, they seem fairly comparable historically. Although it does seem like there have been more years where it was Kentucky and a sea of unranked teams. But the Big 12 has had some too.

 

[KYtotheCore]

Like I said, they seem fairly comparable historically.

Unfortunately the last few years the Jayhawks have showed up vs UK. We need to remedy that immediately.

Damn you, KU!

 

[kyjeff1]

I'm sure Louisville fans do it for that reason, but the only time I've knocked the SEC was in response to B12 bashing. The way some talk, you'd think the SEC had won the Big 12/SEC challenge 9-1 every year.

I remember the SEC going something like 1-30 in major conference OOC games a few years back and losing the B12 challenge, and fans STILL bagged on the B12. That's the kind of thing that gets to me. If the B12 is mediocre (like it might be this year), I'm not going to sugarcoat it.

The B12 has gotten a surprising amount of national hype in recent years (probably overhyped at times), but in the past the hype always centered around the ACC and old Big East. I think national analysts have focused more on the B12 lately because there's been a steady string of exciting players like Trae Young, Buddy Hield, Griffin, Durant, Beasley, and some of the KU guys. Plus exciting games in recent years like the KU-OU triple OT game. And even though it hasn't produced many final four teams, it's had solid depth with almost every game being competitive.

The way I see it, the two leagues are pretty similar historically. The Big 12, as you said, hasn't had anyone make a run like Florida's recently (Oklahoma St won back to back in the 40s) but has several programs that are either historically solid or have had sporadic success at a pretty high level. K-State was actually considered near KU's stature until the 90s. Oklahoma's a solid program and would've won it all in '88 if not for being upset by a fellow Big 8 team.

I was wrong about the final four totals since 2000, but when you take out Kentucky and KU, the Big 12 has 23 final fours, SEC 18. Not sure about overall tourney or regular season wins.

Like I said, they seem fairly comparable historically. Although it does seem like there have been more years where it was Kentucky and a sea of unranked teams. But the Big 12 has had some too.

I agree with most of what you said here except for a couple things.
1) I don't think I've ever seen or heard a UK fan state that the SEC was anything but awful up until the last couple years. I've stated it was pretty good in the 90's, but this discussion is more about recent years. The SEC sucked.

2) I don't the anyone has really bagged on the BIG12 all that much. Certainly not as much as the SEC has been bagged on. But it looks like the B12 is as weak as the SEC was a few years ago.

But programs like KSU, Baylor, Oklahoma, OSU, Wva and Texas Tech have the facilities and talent pools to be really good programs. There's no reason they can't field competitive teams. They just aren't doing it right now.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Unfortunately the last few years the Jayhawks have showed up vs UK. We need to remedy that immediately.

Damn you, KU!

Winning in Rupp twice in a row seems like a tall order. Pisses me off that they have to play two straight there.

 

[mebeblue2]

to solve this argument KU needs to join the SEC

 

[ExitFlagger]

I agree with most of what you said here except for a couple things.
1) I don't think I've ever seen or heard a UK fan state that the SEC was anything but awful up until the last couple years. I've stated it was pretty good in the 90's, but this discussion is more about recent years. The SEC sucked.

2) I don't the anyone has really bagged on the BIG12 all that much. Certainly not as much as the SEC has been bagged on. But it looks like the B12 is as weak as the SEC was a few years ago.

But programs like KSU, Baylor, Oklahoma, OSU, Wva and Texas Tech have the facilities and talent pools to be really good programs. There's no reason they can't field competitive teams. They just aren't doing it right now.

I've seen it a lot on Rafters. Then again, they bag on everybody.

Honestly, the ACC is the only league with multiple powers. And some haven't been there long.

Edit: Before the Big 10 fans get their panties knotted, it's a solid league historically.

 

[ExitFlagger]

to solve this argument KU needs to join the SEC

We'll join as soon as someone snaps the streak.

See you in 2030.

 

[mebeblue2]

We'll join as soon as someone snaps the streak.

See you in 2030.

those conference championships do not compare to being in the SEC

 

[ExitFlagger]

those conference championships do not compare to being in the SEC

If you swapped KU for Kentucky, Florida would have won 2 or 3 of those, but Self still would have dominated overall.

 

[mebeblue2]

If you swapped KU for Kentucky, Florida would have won 2 or 3 of those, but Self still would have dominated overall.

if KU could ever get into the SEC they would get a financial boom
i have no doubt KU would dominate the SEC almost as much as UK has

 

[schoonerwest]

if KU could ever get into the SEC they would get a financial boom

Well that's never going to happen. More likely they end up in the Big 10. So I've heard...

 

[mebeblue2]

Well that's never going to happen. More likely they end up in the Big 10. So I've heard...

the SEC or B10 would be a huge financial boom for KU
i would love for the SEC to take KU the next time they expand
i would also love for them to take USF but i think UF would have to sign off on that

 

[schoonerwest]

the SEC or B10 would be a huge financial boom for KU
i would love for the SEC to take KU the next time they expand
i would also love for them to take USF but i think UF would have to sign off on that

Yeah, I think I remember reading something about how any state with a lone SEC team had the power to not allow another SEC team from their state into the conference. Well maybe not have the power to stop it, but would definitely push for the vote against and be successful.

I'm pretty contempt with where KU is now. I realize they'd probably make more money in the Big 10 or SEC but they seem to be doing just fine where they are now. I'd rather them remain in the same conference for less money but that's just me resisting change. I miss the old Big 8 that I grew up watching.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

the SEC or B10 would be a huge financial boom for KU
i would love for the SEC to take KU the next time they expand
i would also love for them to take USF but i think UF would have to sign off on that

They would. As would any team currently in the SEC with just one team in their state.

 

[mebeblue2]

Yeah, I think I remember reading something about how any state with a lone SEC team had the power to not allow another SEC team from their state into the conference. Well maybe not have the power to stop it, but would definitely push for the vote against and be successful.

I'm pretty contempt with where KU is now. I realize they'd probably make more money in the Big 10 or SEC but they seem to be doing just fine where they are now. I'd rather them remain in the same conference for less money but that's just me resisting change. I miss the old Big 8 that I grew up watching.

i hear ya
i miss the old SEC
i hate these unbalanced schedules

in FB i think we play TAM for the first time since they joined the SEC