Duke was too Zion dependent
- Thread starter SpartanJD
- Start date
What a bizarre take.
He didn’t get a touch at all in the last 3 mins of the game. If actuality, they didn’t depend on him enough.
No because we played denial defense and furced Duke into several turnovers trying to get him the ball. Not going to Zion down the stretch wasn’t as simple as you think. You also know the data—R.J. ball hogs end of games.
Things I didn't like:
-Over-helping on Winston. Last two buckets MSU guys had wide-open shots. Winston is a great player, but we don't need multiple guys collapsing on him.
-Turnovers. Forcing passes and just clumsy turnovers
-MSU averages 13 turnovers per game (bottom-half of the NCAAs), and they had just 7 last night. I don't think we had any transition points. This right here may have been the biggest factor. Duke doesn't play a great half-court game, and we played the entire game in the halfcourt.
Great game. Just sucks to end that way.
-Over-helping on Winston. Last two buckets MSU guys had wide-open shots. Winston is a great player, but we don't need multiple guys collapsing on him.
-Turnovers. Forcing passes and just clumsy turnovers
-MSU averages 13 turnovers per game (bottom-half of the NCAAs), and they had just 7 last night. I don't think we had any transition points. This right here may have been the biggest factor. Duke doesn't play a great half-court game, and we played the entire game in the halfcourt.
Great game. Just sucks to end that way.
Duke played 2 on 5 most of the season on offense with no 3 point shooting and a blown defensive assignment that led to a wide open 3 point shot and Barrett missing free throws kept them from the final four. It's a credit to Zion that they got as far as they did. We've been talking about it on the Duke premium board, Cam Reddish being any kind of 3 point threat this season (or anyone on the team) would have helped the spacing quite a bit... instead teams were able to pack the lane and make it more difficult on Zion/Barrett who are most effective driving the ball.
What is the purpose here? You beat us, we don't need your analysis and if you don't have Winston you lose. Should we say you only won because of Winston and his push off.
- No reliable go to shooter
- No true threat off of the bench
- Poor free throw shooting team
- Progressively got worse at taking care of the ball.
- Had a PG that was very limited offensively
- The closest thing to a 2 and one of the only decent FT shooters on the team couldn't drive to the basket without mowing down the defender.
All of those were bigger downfalls for Duke.
- No true threat off of the bench
- Poor free throw shooting team
- Progressively got worse at taking care of the ball.
- Had a PG that was very limited offensively
- The closest thing to a 2 and one of the only decent FT shooters on the team couldn't drive to the basket without mowing down the defender.
All of those were bigger downfalls for Duke.
Jack White was that guy before he died a horrible death against Syracuse. He will be remembered.
Duke's issue was beyond Zion and Barrett they didn't have enough firepower. Being a horrible perimeter and free throw team is bound to cause issues eventually, especially when the two cornerstones themselves cannot shoot free throws and the college game employs a 1 and 1.
There were red flags when Zion came back, played a perfect game against Syracuse (100% from the floor), and they were neck and neck going into the final 10 minutes of the game. When you are getting full production out of your best player and struggling to put away a run of the mill tournament opponent, odds are you are not going to win the national title.
There were red flags when Zion came back, played a perfect game against Syracuse (100% from the floor), and they were neck and neck going into the final 10 minutes of the game. When you are getting full production out of your best player and struggling to put away a run of the mill tournament opponent, odds are you are not going to win the national title.
Duke never really got better as a team over the year.
Wish I could say you’re wrong, but you’re not.
Duke was basically the same team at the end of the season as we were on the preseason Canada tour. Carried on offense by Zion and RJ.
You could say the same about Zion... some of those fouls he drew were pretty questionable (Tillman standing with his hands straight up, Zion jumping into defenders, etc).
It was a great game. Zion and K were all class afterwards. I was super worried that Zion was going to make a play there at the end, but luckily for MSU it went into Barrett's hands.
I have said all year that Duke relies heavily on creating turnovers and scoring in transition. Yesterday Duke turned the ball over 10 more times than MSU did and had zero transition points. Just one fewer turnover or one basket in transition could have made the difference. But oh well.
Exactly! Props to MSU, but we gave that game away. Like you said, one less turnover, 2 made FT’s and Duke is in the FF. We gave the game away.
Certainly most Duke fans are closer to the team and probably have better insight than I do. Although I just looked at the list of games I watched this year and I watched them 16 times plus 3 times in the tournament (I may have a bit of a problem in terms of watching too much basketball).
Anyway, I think the OP is somewhat true, somewhat not. Based on the way the team was playing at the end of the season, they did not ride Zion enough. They more or less should have gone to him every single possession in the second half. The guy is unstoppable and RJ is the only other person on that team that you can trust offensively.
With that being said, if you have the season to do over again I think you aim for a state in which you don't have to rely on Zion as much. As someone else pointed out, did anyone outside of Zion and RJ get better this year? From my eyes most of them actually got worse (lost confidence maybe?). So that was the big story to me. The team didn't seem to get better throughout the course of the year, whereas all sorts of other teams got much better. That resulted in a situation in which the only way they could win was to go to Zion every time down the floor and ask him to bail them out.
It was a very strange season and an odd dynamic to the team. They have guys that are supposed to be able to shoot the ball. Reddish for sure. O'Connell too. I know White missed 28 consecutive 3's in the middle of the season, but isn't he supposed to be an adequate shooter as well? It's been pointed out countless times, but if you surrounded RJ and Zion with shooters they'd score 120 a game. I have no idea what's going on inside the team, but the fact that all their role players became completely inept suggests to me a loss of confidence or some other issue with the team dynamic/coaching. Do any Duke fans have insight on this aspect? (Even if it's just to tell me I'm completely wrong)
Anyway, I think the OP is somewhat true, somewhat not. Based on the way the team was playing at the end of the season, they did not ride Zion enough. They more or less should have gone to him every single possession in the second half. The guy is unstoppable and RJ is the only other person on that team that you can trust offensively.
With that being said, if you have the season to do over again I think you aim for a state in which you don't have to rely on Zion as much. As someone else pointed out, did anyone outside of Zion and RJ get better this year? From my eyes most of them actually got worse (lost confidence maybe?). So that was the big story to me. The team didn't seem to get better throughout the course of the year, whereas all sorts of other teams got much better. That resulted in a situation in which the only way they could win was to go to Zion every time down the floor and ask him to bail them out.
It was a very strange season and an odd dynamic to the team. They have guys that are supposed to be able to shoot the ball. Reddish for sure. O'Connell too. I know White missed 28 consecutive 3's in the middle of the season, but isn't he supposed to be an adequate shooter as well? It's been pointed out countless times, but if you surrounded RJ and Zion with shooters they'd score 120 a game. I have no idea what's going on inside the team, but the fact that all their role players became completely inept suggests to me a loss of confidence or some other issue with the team dynamic/coaching. Do any Duke fans have insight on this aspect? (Even if it's just to tell me I'm completely wrong)
What does that have to do with anything?
I didn’t think we would once Langford was done for year.
I think MSU took the game more than we gave it away. But I suppose we'd be splitting hairs.
The game plan for beating Duke has always been pretty clear. Double/triple team Zion/RJ and let other guys beat you. I posted this on March 26th of last year. No one on the team is a reliable 3-point shooter. Maybe Alex O'Connell, but his offense is negated by very pedestrian play on the defensive end. Some people thought Reddish was a good shooter, because he does have a nice looking stroke. But, he was 43 for 145 from 3 (29.7%) in EYBL games. Tre Jones was 10 for 41 in EYBL games (24.4%), while RJ Barrett was 10 for 32 (31.2%).
I don't understand with Barrett's ability to penetrate, and Zion commanding the attention he does, how was Duke not good at 3s? You would think on a drive and kick from Barrett any of the other 3 Duke players on the floor are standing wide open?
Good post. I don't follow players very closely until they arrive as freshman, so I wasn't aware of their actual stats. I guess I'd just bought into the talking heads calling Reddish a shooter....I should have known better than to listen to them.
Saying if we just did (full in blank) better works both ways. MSU missed a ton of easy shots and free throws. What if they make those?
Ward missed several point blank shots.
At what point to have to question the job K did this season? You would think he could really mold a group of talented freshmen that had never received high level coaching before, but instead he kind of just rolled the balls out there and let them play. Didn't seem like he had any answers when Plan A wasn't working.
Agree.
Well, you could interpret it as a slightly more sophisticated version of "If we only had 2 more points..."
I know it's everyone's favorite thing to do, questioning K's job. But if we're going to question what he's doing, I think it is more with recruiting. But that's for another conversation.
Krzyzewski has made plenty of adjustments during games this year when plan A wasn't working. Won some, lost some. The Louisville game and the ACCT unc game are big examples of him making adjustments that led to wins. The first unc game was a big example of him failing to adjust, but give me a coach who hasn't had a couple of those games. Fact is, Duke didn't have enough horses, when you are this limited, there's only so many adjustments to be made. And again, this is by his own making starting with recruiting. But I think it is unreasonable to question how he coached this year's team.
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