Covid: Your Town
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No. I know you don’t particularly like me, and you want to get into some political fight, but that is not the case. I am somewhat reassured by some of what Letsgo posted. But I do not think his overall take is on point. Why? It is a combination of A) I don’t know if Letsgo is correct about some of what he posts or that it encompasses the entire picture because there is SO much involved in this discussion that we, as lay people, simply do not know B) I know he has some wacky beliefs about a national conspiracy which make me question some of his takes, and C) I trust actual experts in the field more than a message board poster, even if he seems to do a relatively good job posting.
As long as I keep reading things like....
“What we saw before us was the somewhat frightening but nonetheless real emergence of a true global pandemic. It just went on and on and got worse and worse. And worse, There were responses that were sometimes favorable in that countries got it under control. But my own country is in the middle, right as we speak, of a very serious problem.” - Dr Anthony Fauci
“I’m frantic. Everybody is frantic. The public health officer is frantic. Because there is no leadership from the top, and we are not going to be able to control this regionally or locally... an overwhelming crisis...” - Dr. Jeffrey Smith, county executive, Santa Clara
"The fact that going out to socialize in a bar environment is even an option — it just doesn't make sense... (in regions seeing surges) there shouldn't be any options like that. They just have to suck it up and turn it off.” - Dr. Jake Deutsch, Director, Cure Urgent Care
“(Covid creates) long-standing lung injury, cardiovascular injury, heart injury, and neurologic injury as well that could make it difficult or impossible to work... In many ways, we're going to be producing a generation of disabled individuals.” - Dr. Pete Hotez, Dean, Baylor College of Medicine
“Withdrawing U.S. membership (from the WHO) could, among other things, interfere with clinical trials that are essential to the development of vaccines, which citizens of the United States as well as others in the world need.” - Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., Chairman, Senate Health Committee
“When I look at other countries and say, ‘What have they done that we haven’t?’ I could give you a list of things, but the single most important thing I would say is: Other countries have taken it seriously and we have not.” - Ashish Jha, Director, Harvard Global Health Institute.
... and I see tons of stats like this....
and this...
and this...
In California, hospitalizations are up 50% from two weeks ago. In Arizona, more than 90% of its ICU beds were filled, and the percentage was growing. In Savannah, Georgia, hospitalizations have nearly quadrupled in a month. In Florida at least 56 hospital intensive care units have reached capacity.
... well, forgive me if I do not completely accept Letsgos position that we are taking a particularly effective approach against this virus and everything is working out and it’s maybe even mostly a conspiracy.
Anyway... I’m not going to get into a personal back and forth about how I never listen to people because I am a liberal or whatever nonsense you are spewing... shit, none of you have ever changed you stance on a single thing because of some point I’ve made, so let’s not pretend that I am the big stubborn one here. I appreciate Letsgo posting his information, and I “enjoy” reading it, so much as I can enjoy reading about bad stuff, because it can fill in information. But I may not accept his takes as gospel.
And you can leave the political sniping in the political thread.
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Says all that and then ends on this quote.
Nothing I said was about any posters politics, and I wasn’t taking personal shots at anyone.
Hah!
Just not up for it anymore.
Thankfully the basement is fixed! Carpet guys came a few days ago. As I put it all back together I felt so much damn stress lifting... having your fav place in such destroyed disarray is more stressful than I guess I had realized?
Hey, first world problems, I suppose
I LOVE AMERICA!1!!!Hah!
Just not up for it anymore.
Thankfully the basement is fixed! Carpet guys came a few days ago. As I put it all back together I felt so much damn stress lifting... having your fav place in such destroyed disarray is more stressful than I guess I had realized?
Hey, first world problems, I suppose
Just a few responses. I won't hassle you after this.
You still haven't said what other countries have done differently. You say they took it seriously and we did not. Um. I think we took it pretty damned seriously. But what is it specifically that other countries have done that we haven't?
About the bars. You do realize that a lot of the countries that are doing so much better than us have been wide open for a long time. They were very critical of Spain for opening their bars and kept pointing out that cases were still rising. Well, their death rates plummeted anyways and you stopped hearing about it.
You are still talking about the hospitalizations without acknowledging that it is a very misleading stat. But I have whack views, so. I won't convince you to not be terrified.
Your first tweet. Why did he do testing per capita but total cases and total deaths? Seems like it was to fit a narrative. Also, the United States is a huge country with vastly different populations spread across a massive landscape. There are literally millions of people who have never been exposed and wouldn't need to be tested, so the test per capita is hardly a good measurement.
Your second tweet. Some of what I said about the first tweet applies here too. How can you compare a country of 330,000,000 people with countries that are mostly under 10,000,000? You also have yet to acknowledge that we are a month behind Europe and up to 3 months behind Asia. And there is clear and undeniable evidence that we are manipulating data to make it look like there are more cases. Now you might think that this is one of my whacky conspiracy theories. But do you think it is a lie that in Texas they count contacts as covid cases? Do you think it is a lie that in Florida they count each positive test from the SAME person as two NEW cases? There is only one explanation for why they do this. To pad the numbers.
And I know you have a lot of respect for Fauci. But this dude just praised Cuomo and DeBlasio for what an incredible job they did handling the virus. Cuomo, the guy who killed thousands of nursing home patients. DeBlasio, the man who kept his subways open and encouraged people to get out and celebrate the Chinese new year or whatever Chinese holiday it was. Just to show that he isn't racist like the president is. This is our "expert" the chameleon dr Fauci.
Anyways, I have done everything I can. I hope at the very least you look into slme of it and realize that we are not being told the truth and that we can live with this virus and stop running from it. If you want to continue to believe that we are so much worse than other countries without considering the differences in the situation, go right ahead. I will continue to believe that certain politicians, the media and bureaucrats want that vision and want that belief to be present because, you know. Election year and all. I know. Whacky.
iT re3aly is amazing to watch the perceptions. The MSM is out of control, it's out of control to for the reaction of 3 letters of MSM.
Go to media sites and look at the disclaimers of "opinion', "Editiorals" etc.
The ppl most triggered by it, seems the most gullible to be sold on the "news".
"Go on, tell me 12 paragraphs about how you figured it out." I'll read it as entertainment.
Yellow journalism. Does the color yellow bother anyone?
Go to media sites and look at the disclaimers of "opinion', "Editiorals" etc.
The ppl most triggered by it, seems the most gullible to be sold on the "news".
"Go on, tell me 12 paragraphs about how you figured it out." I'll read it as entertainment.
Yellow journalism. Does the color yellow bother anyone?
Well. You’ll have to let us know which one of the following it is because it can’t be both or even another alternative.
Either you’re not capable of analyzing multiple data points surrounding COVID so you actually understand the issue at hand. Which is weird considering how intelligent you try and tell us you are.
OR
You are purposefully ignoring them for some other reason which, in this case, is likely political which in turn makes you look like a bad person.
By continuing to put so much emphasis on just the rise in cases seems VERY disingenuous. Hell, even one of the pieces of information you posted above about us not testing as much as other countries per capita
like that has any damn significance when the TOTAL number of positive cases is what you’re focused on. Shouldn’t you then want to look at the TOTAL test conducted by other countries? That’s what a person genuinely looking to analyze the entire situation free from political bias. But here you are, making apples to oranges points.
This is more par for the course from you. Claim you don’t know or haven’t seen some information brought to you that’s counter to your bullshit narrative.
I used to think you were genuinely concerned over the pandemic. Now you just look even more partisan which make me think even less of you considering the impact this is having in peoples lives.
Oh, and leave the “none of you have ever changed your stance on a single thing” bullshit out of here. That’s completely untrue and VERY rich coming from the king of never coming back and admitting you had a bad take.....On ANYTHING of actual substance.
Liberals cried about Trump not having enough testing early on and now cry when we are world leaders in number of tests.
Orange man bad.
Orange man bad.
You should have gone with tile. Especially if it floods. Carpet is a mess.Hah!
Just not up for it anymore.
Thankfully the basement is fixed! Carpet guys came a few days ago. As I put it all back together I felt so much damn stress lifting... having your fav place in such destroyed disarray is more stressful than I guess I had realized?
Hey, first world problems, I suppose
"I trust experts" is exactly the cop out that had you worried about half a million U.S. deaths in two months.
when I was talking about flooding I was thinking about your situation to keep perspective
If there is a 2nd wave of rona, Sweden will likely be the least affected. No masks either.
Also, reported deaths that have occurred in the month of July give us a daily average of 12.5 deaths per day in a country of 330million. That is not to say that there haven't been more. But what is being reported by worldmeters based on the cdc reports is almost 500 a day. Wake up people. We are making great progress.
Also, reported deaths that have occurred in the month of July give us a daily average of 12.5 deaths per day in a country of 330million. That is not to say that there haven't been more. But what is being reported by worldmeters based on the cdc reports is almost 500 a day. Wake up people. We are making great progress.
Belgium is an outlier, please educate yourself on this. Sweden paid dearly in human lives by not locking down compared to its Scandinavian neighbors and it didn't end up helping out its economy in the short term either.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html
Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent. The unemployment rate jumped to 9 percent in May from 7.1 percent in March. “The overall damage to the economy means the recovery will be protracted, with unemployment remaining elevated,” Oxford Economics concluded in a recent research note.
This is more or less how damage caused by the pandemic has played out in Denmark, where the central bank expects that the economy will shrink 4.1 percent this year, and where joblessness has edged up to 5.6 percent in May from 4.1 percent in March.
In short, Sweden suffered a vastly higher death rate while failing to collect on the expected economic gains.
Sweden's policy is not going to be determined by the initial wave of the pandemic. And it was also not based solely on economic pros and cons. It is about long term health as well. We won't know if they made the right decision until a second wave that every expert predicts will happen. That's what herd immunity is. You can say that Belgium is an outlier, but truth is, there are many outliers. Like Florida vs New York. Like Wisconsin vs Michigan. Georgia vs New Jersey.
Stop playing the victim, it makes you look silly. Our caseload is out of control even if our testing is a lot better.
Orange Man is bad because he's our President and is supposed to set an example yet he refuses to wear a mask.
I'm a Moderate and I blame every leader in out country on both parties for causing this mess. Fauci didn't advise wearing masks early, Cuomo sent thousands of New Yorkers to their graves by sending seniors from hospitals to nursing homes, Trump underplayed the virus the entire time and Republican governors have taken zero actions to contain this virus in their states.
The victim? Are you stupid?
My state is doing great. Hospitalizations and deaths matter to me a lot more than cases.
Go to the coronavirus thread on tMB. He is hilarious.
Imaging living life that miserable and then accusing others of using the victim card.
We live in the same country, why is it your state vs my state? Lol.
I said victim because you said "Orange Man Bad" which is what weak minded Trump fanatics say when faced with facts and stats because they think the world is out to get Trump.
Michigan is the 6th worst state in deaths per capita by the way and has the 7th most deaths in the state so you're certainly not doing great by any metric.
What long term health are you talking about? All the Scandinavian and Northern European countries have more or less defeated the virus and are reporting a negligible amount of cases now. Sweden had to suffer thousands of more deaths to get to the same conclusion.
We"ll see if there's a second wave and what impact that has on Sweden but that hasn't happened yet so I don't know how you can say that the Swedish response has been anything other than a failure based on the data we have.
He's not even in Michigan. He is in Wisconsin. Which is doing substantially better than Michigan despite having much lighter regulations and no masks.
I live in Wisconsin, and yes we are doing great. Deaths and hospitalizations continue to trend down.
I am not saying that it is a failure or a success. But you are cherry picking what you are using as outliers. Sweden's goal was to infect the most healthy people as possible. The other countries were trying to prevent the spread. So we can't compare how they handled it until the virus has ran its course. If there is no second wave or there is a formidable vaccine before the second wave. Then obviously they made the wrong decision.
Either way, they have faired better than a lot of countries and a lot of different states of our own country while not shutting down. That illustrates just how differently the virus affects communities and is something that we can learn from when studying in the future.
Dude thought he had me in a "gotcha" moment by shitting on Gretchen Whitmer's state
Meanwhile
I think it is funny that he went with "why is it my state vs your state?" As if that isn't relevant. He wants to use countries that have populations of 5,6 8 million people vs our country that has a population of 330million. We can literally break our country's covid cases down to counties if we wanted. But that would give the impression that our country is doing overwhelmingly great.Dude thought he had me in a "gotcha" moment by shitting on Gretchen Whitmer's state
Meanwhile
Nish is on team death. He won't accept anything but negative data.
Deaths/Hospitalizations are trending up and will increase in the coming weeks because we're having 60,000+ cases daily now.
It's true that more young people are being infected and that we've gotten better at treating at risk patients but with such a staggering rise in cases, you"ll be dealing with a rise in deaths once again.
It won't approach the peak in April because of the nursing home disaster in NY and NJ but you"ll be seeing deaths range from 1,000-1,500 on Tuesday-Friday which are normal reporting days.
I expect this new peak to last for a long time now because we're not going to lock down again so the virus will just continue to eat away at us.
I don't give a fvck about where you live, just saw that you're a Michigan fan. Congrats on being in a state that's not that affected by COVID I guess? I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove here.Dude thought he had me in a "gotcha" moment by shitting on Gretchen Whitmer's state
Meanwhile
It isn't relevant because we're one country. You're the one comparing Sweden, a country of 10 Million, to the US my man. I
What exactly is "team death"? I'm in my early 30s and want to see bars fully reopened, go to concerts and go to a baseball game with friends but I can't because our country completely botched its response to this virus and the blame stretches across federal to local government and across party lines.
Go ahead and pray to God to get rid of the virus or keep getting false data from far right wing sources that says that the virus has been eradicated if it makes you feel better.
It's not going to change the reality that our death rate and hospitalizations are already spiking and are going to balloon over the coming weeks.
Jesus man. I never claimed the virus has been eradicated. And I had no idea that the cdc was a far right wing source. Also. I have extensively said that it is silly, stupid really, to compare countries with populations of at or under 10 million to the United States. I only compare Sweden to other countries of similar populations and STATES of similar populations. You're the idiot who thinks that it is logical to compare our country's situation to other countries. Read your first paragraph. You are telling me that comparing states is irrelevant because we are one country just so you can claim that I am comparing our country to a much less populated country.
In fact, I only bring up Sweden because they took a completely different approach than most of the rest of the world. They are an interesting case study. I am not necessarily comparing them as much as discussing their handling.
There are 3 states that have had a moderate rise in hospitalizations. Again, you need to add full context when talking about hospitalizations. Look harder and you will see how they are using this as a fear tactic and you are fully bought in. Also 75% of the deaths that have been reported in July occurred prior to June. So it's difficult to say that deaths are rising.
I can't seem to get a single person to say specifically what we have done differently than the rest of the world that makes our response so much worse. It would only be fair to judge per 100,000 to Europe in late May to early June. And if you look at how the northeast was affected along with Europe, it definitely seems like the European strain was more deadly. Either that or Asians had the T-cells from previous exposures to coronaviruses. But even then, it would be difficult.
Here's where I think we messed up.
- We should have shud down travel to and from Europe sooner.
- We should have shut down state to state travel
- We should have shut down all subway systems and busses.
- We shouldn't have sent thousands of sick people to nursing homes
- We should have done everything in our power to discourage gathering in the streets in mass crowds instead of actually encouraging it.
Trying to catch me in a "gotcha" moment by citing Whitmer's state.
What says a lot about you is that rather than being legit happy for our state that we are doing well, you seem triggered but it. You had erection when you thought you were telling me my state is doing shitty and then when you find out my state is doing good you "don't give a fvck where I live".
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Exactly what a home board ICU physician said to me 3 weeks ago. She admitted she was wrong now.
"Hail to be honest not sure why I'm responding since it seems you have your mind made up about how you see this pandemic. But here goes nothing. as you are probably aware of especially if you are in the health care industry, both hospitalizations and fatality numbers are lagging indicators so with the newest headlines in Wisconsin warning residents that the number of new cases are a warning sign for the state doing poorly. Now those increase of new cases will show up in an increases of both hospitalizations as well as deaths in approximately 14-21 days accordingly. So if in those allotted days the hospitalization is still on the downward trend then that would be something to be happy about. Honestly I hope it does but having colleagues and myself deal with this crap I wouldn't bet money against both hospitalization and death rates increasing since its what the data from most states have shown, but I would still be happy for your state if it did."
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Part of that is on local/state governments, too. Not all this is Trumps fault, but Orange man bad, so I get it. Look how NY and NJ messed things up. Even looking at their numbers now versus other places (a lot) aren’t comparable.
The number of deaths isn’t spiking like the increase in cases. The mortality rate and number of deaths do lag but at this point haven’t followed the increase in cases and we’ve seen cases spike for multiple weeks now. That’s a good thing.
60k per day? Do we have enough body bags.......or is the percentage of those that die astronomically low?
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