Corruption

[toonces11]

Because his base eats that shit up, and sane republicans won't speak up about it. That is literally the only reason.

I think people are too dumb to comprehend the truth. I don't care what side you like--a lie is a lie----and as much as this man has run his mouth about others, he should be squeaky clean. I wont pretend to know someone isn't lying when their is evidence they did. You can argue the severity of importance of the lie---but to ignore the fact someone said one thing and now flip flops without any acknowledgement.....christ

 

[mebeblue2]

Some trade deals were put in place a long time ago when the other side of the deal from us was struggling or needed the help. Many of those scenarios aren't necessary any longer. Nobody hear has implied (to my knowledge) that a trade deficit means we're losing. More people have said fair trade is something they want or agree with. We can still have a trade deficit with a country and have a fair agreement.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/22/its...-to-start-caring-about-trumps-legal-woes.html

Good article to read.

it amazes me how many struggle to understand that

speaking of tariffs, when Obama was in office he put a short term (i think it was 1 year) 100% tariff on Chinese tires coming into the US
why was there no outcry on tariffs when Obama did that

 

[mebeblue2]

Unfortunately we’ve reached this crazy spot where people literally will ignore reality if it goes against what they WANT to believe. Trump was the ringleader of what I think was the worst one... the whole “Obama is a Muslim foreigner” thing. There was literally zero evidence of this... in fact, there was famous evidence AGAINST it (that Obama had a pastor) and yet nearly two thirds of Trump backers belief that Obama is a Muslim. And there is no talking them out of it... they’ll just say “Well, that’s my opinion, and I’m allowed to have an opinion” or something inane like that. People (and this isn’t limited to right wing folks) just believe what they want to believe, evidence or facts be damned.

Our country is in a really scary place right now, in some ways.

like Russian collusion

 

[Global Havok]

it amazes me how many struggle to understand that

speaking of tariffs, when Obama was in office he put a short term (i think it was 1 year) 100% tariff on Chinese tires coming into the US
why was there no outcry on tariffs when Obama did that

Did you just compare tariffs on chinese tires to tariffs on raw materials? Please don't speak on economics.

 

[SNU0821]

Did you just compare tariffs on chinese tires to tariffs on raw materials? Please don't speak on economics.

I'd recommend the same for you good sir.

 

[Global Havok]

I'd recommend the same for you good sir.

You make lots of statements with no supporting facts. What have I said that is remotely incorrect?

You should avoid debate in general. You arent built for it. Dont have the intellect for it apparently.

 

[bkingUK]

BTW, because I'm afraid folks missed this pretty important tidbit...

View embedded media

Uh... that's a pretty big thing, if it all plays out like that...?

Just getting back to the topic of the thread

It should be a big thing. Like the biggest thing to ever happen to a US President. If our government is incapable of holding the President accountable for that if collusion is proven, then it’s seriously time that overthrow the government.

 

[TheDude1]

like Russian collusion

So, @mebeblue2 , can I ask, as someone who is genuinely curious... how do you come up with this?

The Obama/Muslim thing I think everyone knows is fake. There is literally nothing to support it, and the fact that the guy had a pastor and went to church before he was a public figure and all of that makes it clear.

But how do you equate something so demonstrably false with something that isn't? I mean... Russian collusion is literally believable enough that a former head of the FBI has spent years looking into it, Trump has been connected to a number of people who have been found guilty (note: GUILTY) of crimes, including some illicit dealings involving Russia (Flynn, Manafort, Gates, Papadopoulos, van der Zwaan, and 13 Russian nationals), we know that Trumps son had a meeting with Russians which they denied for a long time and in many ways, a former CIA head said "Mr. Trump’s claims of no collusion are, in a word, hogwash," and Trump himself stood up in front of the world next to the President of Russia and publicly denounced the US intelligence community and instead sided with Russia involving Russian involvement in our election (all after saying, publicly, that he wanted Russia to hack his political opponent... and the Russians then tried to hack Clinton's personal emails for the first time that night.)

Note that all of this stuff I just posted is factual. Like, actual fact. I can give you links for all of them, even links to Fox News that confirms it all.

So help me understand. How do you equate what is provably false with something that is not? Are you just trolling? Do you genuinely believe it? If you DO genuinely believe it, how do you balance this belief all of the facts I posted earlier?

 

[I am stupid]

1. The first sentence you bolded says the tariffs are to blame, are you being serious right now? The default of a large account "added greatly to the problem". As in it was not the main cause of the problem.

2. From my link earlier in the thread:
Harley-Davidson announced it would be moving some of its U.S. production elsewhere after retaliatory tariffs from the European Union raised U.S. motorcycle tariffs from 6% to 31%, adding nearly $2,200 to the average cost of one of its bikes. The company has not said how many jobs will be affected by this move.

Care to try again?

About Harley, read the Snopes link. It rated them blaming trump as mostly false. They were already moving production over seas before the tariffs.

On caselabs, the tariffs were a "major role" using the words of the owner. Not the only reason. The parts shortage increased the prices much more than the tariffs. Plus one of their major markets was plummeting in 2017.

The tariffs are certainly hurting people out there. No denying that. But it is being used as political fodder similar to certain coal companies laying off or closing down under Obama before elections.

 

[Global Havok]

About Harley, read the Snopes link. It rated them blaming trump as mostly false. They were already moving production over seas before the tariffs.

On caselabs, the tariffs were a "major role" using the words of the owner. Not the only reason. The parts shortage increased the prices much more than the tariffs. Plus one of their major markets was plummeting in 2017.

The tariffs are certainly hurting people out there. No denying that. But it is being used as political fodder similar to certain coal companies laying off or closing down under Obama before elections.

Nice try at spin.
"A major role in raising prices by almost 80%" is actually what they said. Try reading entire sentences instead of looking for phrases that support your argument. As in, the major cause of the price of manufacturing increasing was the tariffs. They go on to say that associated shortages (ie people rushing to buy the materials before prices rise even more) made up the rest of the price increases. Had they not have had a large account default, they possibly could have weathered the shitshow of raw material costs. What part of that could possibly lead you to believe that they would still be shutting down if not for the tariffs?

As for HD.... They were already moving some. They are moving MORE production due to the tariffs (and I've already given you a link to this that you apparently would like to ignore?). The snopes link is about them closing the entire Wisconsin factory. You are trying to refute a claim that I did not make. If you think that moving more production overseas isn't going to result in more lost jobs, I have some beachfront property in Arizona I'd love to give you a great deal on.

 

[SNU0821]

So, @mebeblue2 , can I ask, as someone who is genuinely curious... how do you come up with this?

The Obama/Muslim thing I think everyone knows is fake. There is literally nothing to support it, and the fact that the guy had a pastor and went to church before he was a public figure and all of that makes it clear.

But how do you equate something so demonstrably false with something that isn't? I mean... Russian collusion is literally believable enough that a former head of the FBI has spent years looking into it, Trump has been connected to a number of people who have been found guilty (note: GUILTY) of illicit dealings involving Russia (Flynn, Manafort, Gates, Papadopoulos, van der Zwaan, and 13 Russian nationals) a former CIA head said "Mr. Trump’s claims of no collusion are, in a word, hogwash," and Trump himself stood up in front of the world next to the President of Russia and publicly denounced the US intelligence community and instead sided with Russia involving Russian involvement in our election (all after saying, publicly, that he wanted Russia to hack his political opponent... and the Russians then tried to hack Clinton's personal emails for the first time that night.)

Note that all of this stuff I just posted is factual. Like, actual fact. I can give you links for all of them, even links to Fox News that confirms it all.

So help me understand. How do you equate what is provably false with something that is not? Are you just trolling? Do you genuinely believe it? If you DO genuinely believe it, how do you balance this belief all of the facts I posted earlier?

This is a great example of why conservatives hate listening to liberals. You claim Trump has been connected with a number of people who have been found guilty of illicit dealings involving Russia. Wrong. Flynn is in trouble for lying to the FBI (or another agency). Manafort is in financial/tax trouble and failing to disclose himself as a foreign agent for Ukraine or something like that. Papadopolous I believe got caught lying to the government as well. I could be somewhat wrong with the above, but most of those who are connected with Trump so far haven't been convicted of "illicit dealings with Russia." I believe what you stated is factually wrong yet here you are pawning it off as though there are clear cut Russian ties directly to Trump. You're wrong.

 

[loublue22]

This is a great example of why conservatives hate listening to liberals. You claim Trump has been connected with a number of people who have been found guilty of illicit dealings involving Russia. Wrong. Flynn is in trouble for lying to the FBI (or another agency). Manafort is in financial/tax trouble and failing to disclose himself as a foreign agent for Ukraine or something like that. Papadopolous I believe got caught lying to the government as well. I could be somewhat wrong with the above, but most of those who are connected with Trump so far haven't been convicted of "illicit dealings with Russia." I believe what you stated is factually wrong yet here you are pawning it off as though there are clear cut Russian ties directly to Trump. You're wrong.

That's all they're doing, none of this shit has any connection to the stupid "russian interference" nonsense, which is what Mueller is supposed to be investigating. Instead he pursues people for tax fraud years before Trump ever ran for office and process offenses where someone was asked a million questions and gave a few wrong answers. NONE of it ties back to the original reason for the investigation, and the media is so thoroughly dishonest they spend all day and night plastering "GUILTY" all over the screen. And gullible or willfully ignorant idiots like the one you quoted eat it up.

 

[Global Havok]

That's all they're doing, none of this shit has any connection to the stupid "russian interference" nonsense, which is what Mueller is supposed to be investigating. Instead he pursues people for tax fraud years before Trump ever ran for office and process offenses where someone was asked a million questions and gave a few wrong answers. NONE of it ties back to the original reason for the investigation, and the media is so thoroughly dishonest they spend all day and night plastering "GUILTY" all over the screen. And gullible or willfully ignorant idiots like the one you quoted eat it up.

You have no clue what you are talking about. His job is to persue all criminal activity he uncovers during the investigation. The same job of every special prosecutor. Ken Starr didn't start looking into Clinton over a blowie, but the investigation led him there and it was his job to persue. The same is true for Mueller.

You realize democrats have been charged as a result of the Mueller investigation as well, right? And you realize the investigation is still on going and you have no clue what Meuller does or doesnt have, right?

This witch hunt sure is finding tons of witches.

 

[TheDude1]

That's all they're doing, none of this shit has any connection to the stupid "russian interference" nonsense, which is what Mueller is supposed to be investigating. Instead he pursues people for tax fraud years before Trump ever ran for office and process offenses where someone was asked a million questions and gave a few wrong answers. NONE of it ties back to the original reason for the investigation, and the media is so thoroughly dishonest they spend all day and night plastering "GUILTY" all over the screen. And gullible or willfully ignorant idiots like the one you quoted eat it up.

Do you know why Al Capone went to jail?

Going after criminals that then help you go after another criminal is exactly what the FBI and people like it do, and sometimes it is not the crime you were originally thinking about that breaks the case.

And it is strange when random internet folks bash heads of the CIA and FBI as gullible or willfully ignorant idiots. I suppose the average poster here IS super smart, but...

 

[SNU0821]

Do you know why Al Capone went to jail?

Going after criminals that then help you go after another criminal is exactly what the FBI and people like it do, and sometimes it is not the crime you were originally thinking about that breaks the case.

That tin foil hat you constantly wear isn’t a great look. Just sayin...

 

[Global Havok]

That tin foil hat you constantly wear isn’t a great look. Just sayin...

Good god you are horrible at this. That is literally what Mueller did when prosecuting John Gotti. Learn some damn history before you insult people who are obviously better versed in this stuff than you.

 

[SNU0821]

Good god you are horrible at this. That is literally what Mueller did when prosecuting John Gotti. Learn some damn history before you insult people who are obviously better versed in this stuff than you.

Hahaha! It’s amazing how I have to explain everything to you. I was making fun of him about the Russian Collusion hoax he was purposely lying about. I honestly feel bad for how dumb you clearly are as you can’t even follow along with a basic conversation.

 

[Global Havok]

Hahaha! It’s amazing how I have to explain everything to you. I was making fun of him about the Russian Collusion hoax he was purposely lying about. I honestly feel bad for how dumb you clearly are as I’ve had to explain things to you all day.

Yeah, I'm the one that looks dumb here.

BTW, where was his purposeful lie in the post you quoted? Learn to coherantly put together an argument and get back to me. I would suggest a high school English class.

 

[SNU0821]

Yeah, I'm the one that looks dumb here.

Glad we agree.

 

[Global Havok]

Glad we agree.

I'm sorry, is sarcasm beyond your reading level?

 

[Global Havok]

Hahaha! It’s amazing how I have to explain everything to you. I was making fun of him about the Russian Collusion hoax he was purposely lying about. I honestly feel bad for how dumb you clearly are as you can’t even follow along with a basic conversation.

"Where was his purposeful lie in the post you quoted? Learn to coherently put together an argument and get back to me. I would suggest a high school English class." Since you missed my edit... and he didn't mention Russia at all.

 

[SNU0821]

I'm sorry, is sarcasm beyond your reading level?

No more than your inability to follow along in a conversation.

 

[TheDude1]

Yeah, I'm the one that looks dumb here.

BTW, where was his purposeful lie in the post you quoted? Learn to coherantly put together an argument and get back to me. I would suggest a high school English class.

Uh oh. Is this about me?

 

[proudopete]

This back and forth will only increase until this matter is settled. Probably best for all parties involved to just have Trump resign so justice can be served by having him indicted. Let Pence run the show as he is actually much more of a centrist than Trump. The GOP can possibly save face from putting crooks in the highest offices in the world and the liberals can probably deal with over zealous religion running the government better than an unqualified criminal and his criminal buddies.

Now, let me say this, most folks in politics are criminal in one way or the other. I am not sure I have seen any of them be exposed at this level...ever, but Hilldog is no saint for sure. Let the career guys get us back on track and hopefully get a reset in 2020 ana let the chips fall where they may.

This type of environment of disorder, lawlessness and division isn’t sustainable and we all need to realize no matter if Trump colluded or not, which isn’t crime just ask him, our behavior during this period is exactly what Russia wanted in the first place. We are being played and for some reason or another, we all have our reasons whether it be border security or civil rights, we have hunkered down and refuse to meet in the middle. We are killing ourselves and the folks who fought WWII would tell us to wake up and fight the real enemy. But alas, the media feeds us what we want, whether it be a feel good story or drama at the highest levels. The US has become the biggest reality TV show ever and I am sure Trump is proud. We need to stop it however. Find a compromise ana get back to the good ole days of being mad about tan suits and Oliver North.

 

[TheDude1]

This back and forth will only increase until this matter is settled. Probably best for all parties involved to just have Trump resign so justice can be served by having him indicted. Let Pence run the show as he is actually much more of a centrist than Trump. The GOP can possibly save face from putting crooks in the highest offices in the world and the liberals can probably deal with over zealous religion running the government better than an unqualified criminal and his criminal buddies.

Now, let me say this, most folks in politics are criminal in one way or the other. I am not sure I have seen any of them be exposed at this level...ever, but Hilldog is no saint for sure. Let the career guys get us back on track and hopefully get a reset in 2020 ana let the chips fall where they may.

This type of environment of disorder, lawlessness and division isn’t sustainable and we all need to realize no matter if Trump colluded or not, which isn’t crime just ask him, our behavior during this period is exactly what Russia wanted in the first place. We are being played and for some reason or another, we all have our reasons whether it be border security or civil rights, we have hunkered down and refuse to meet in the middle. We are killing ourselves and the folks who fought WWII would tell us to wake up and fight the real enemy. But alas, the media feeds us what we want, whether it be a feel good story or drama at the highest levels. The US has become the biggest reality TV show ever and I am sure Trump is proud. We need to stop it however. Find a compromise ana get back to the good ole days of being mad about tan suits and Oliver North.

Just gotta say, not sure Pence is more of a centrist. But I do think he is a professional, and not a childish thin skinned douche with negative self control and who is profiting from the office

 

[Global Havok]

Uh oh. Is this about me?

Just trying to teach a guy to have a conversation without having to avoid questions pointing out his obviously stupid logic. As you can see, it doesn't seem to be helping. Lost cause I suppose. Still wondering what your purposeful lie about Russia was, when the word Russia never appeared in your post.

 

[TheDude1]

Just trying to teach a guy to have a conversation without having to avoid questions pointing out his obviously stupid logic. As you can see, it doesn't seem to be helping. Lost cause I suppose. Still wondering what your purposeful lie about Russia was, when the word Russia never appeared in your post.

Oh, it WAS about me? Hm, was it the angry stalker, or the troll stalker?

And yeah, people love to say "You are lying about this or that!" on this forum when they've lost. I generally don't lie. Certainly didn't lie anywhere about Russia that I know of?

Damn your eyes, now I want to hit "show ignored content" to see what I've missed!

 

[Global Havok]

Oh, it WAS about me? Hm, was it the angry stalker, or the troll stalker?

And yeah, people love to say "You are lying about this or that!" on this forum when they've lost. I generally don't lie. Certainly didn't lie anywhere about Russia that I know of?

Damn your eyes, now I want to hit "show ignored content" to see what I've missed!

It isn't worth the temptation.

 

[TheDude1]

It isn't worth the temptation.

Wait, at least tell me what I lied about?

 

[Global Havok]

Wait, at least tell me what I lied about?

That is what I couldn't figure out. You lied about Russia without mentioning the word Russia. Skills.

 

[ThroughBlue]

I thought I just read that pence was more a centrist that trump

 

[proudopete]

Just gotta say, not sure Pence is more of a centrist. But I do think he is a professional, and not a childish thin skinned douche with negative self control and who is profiting from the office

Even the far right is closer to the center than wherever Trump is right now.
I agree about the professional part. His decisions wouldn’t be his own whims. He would actually have advisors do real research and hopefully not break anything while in office.
I prefer that the house be split or at least controlled by the opposition as it used to keep us on track. It’s now become a way to keep anything from happening and I am not sure I don’t prefer that to what we currently are witnessing.

I am from Indiana originally, so I get where Pence is coming from. I may not fully agree, but I’m pretty sure he isn’t going to suck up to Putin or Kim while spatting with Canada and the UK.

 

[TheDude1]

That is what I couldn't figure out. You lied about Russia without mentioning the word Russia. Skills.

Well, lemme know when he DOES pick out my lie, would you? I'm so curious!

 

[SNU0821]

That is what I couldn't figure out. You lied about Russia without mentioning the word Russia. Skills.

Jesus. You really are an idiot. He said people close to Trump have been convicted of illicit dealings involving Russia. Tell me who that is? It would be major news. Manafort? Flynn? They were all convicted of lying to the feds or financial crimes. But he calls it illicit dealings with Russia. Lies.

Over the last two years, what was the topic conservatives have accused others of having a conspiracy about? Here’s a hint. Russia. Shocker, I know. But since you’re incapable of following along, Figured I’d spell it out for you like a toddler.

 

[BasketBallJunkie-UK]

Even the far right is closer to the center than wherever Trump is right now.
I agree about the professional part. His decisions wouldn’t be his own whims. He would actually have advisors do real research and hopefully not break anything while in office.
I prefer that the house be split or at least controlled by the opposition as it used to keep us on track. It’s now become a way to keep anything from happening and I am not sure I don’t prefer that to what we currently are witnessing.

I am from Indiana originally, so I get where Pence is coming from. I may not fully agree, but I’m pretty sure he isn’t going to suck up to Putin or Kim while spatting with Canada and the UK.

Trump is straight out of Atlas Shrugged. Objectivism...

 

[SNU0821]

Oh, it WAS about me? Hm, was it the angry stalker, or the troll stalker?

And yeah, people love to say "You are lying about this or that!" on this forum when they've lost. I generally don't lie. Certainly didn't lie anywhere about Russia that I know of?

Damn your eyes, now I want to hit "show ignored content" to see what I've missed!

So you’re not lying, you’re just ignorant. Got it. Good to know.

 

[loublue22]

Do you know why Al Capone went to jail?

Going after criminals that then help you go after another criminal is exactly what the FBI and people like it do, and sometimes it is not the crime you were originally thinking about that breaks the case.

And it is strange when random internet folks bash heads of the CIA and FBI as gullible or willfully ignorant idiots. I suppose the average poster here IS super smart, but...

Just continuing intellectual dishonesty, the president of the united states is not al capone and that's a ridiculous comparison. Mueller has found nothing regarding any americans and the reason he was appointed as "special prosecutor". I have no doubt rich people with international business connections fudge their taxes and don't keep 100% accurate books, I don't give a shit. It has nothing to do with whether or not Trump was lawfully elected president, which of course he was. Stop trying to undermine the leader of our country because you're mad he got elected. There is ZERO evidence anyone connected to the Trump campaign had anything to do with DNC emails getting leaked, and there never will be. Mueller can go on investigating people's tax returns until at least the mid-terms, which I'm sure he will, and the media will continue its breathless reporting of any new development regardless of any connection to Russia (it won't have any), and it won't change anything. Trump is the President and he's not going anywhere.

 

[Global Havok]

Do you know why Al Capone went to jail?

Going after criminals that then help you go after another criminal is exactly what the FBI and people like it do, and sometimes it is not the crime you were originally thinking about that breaks the case.

And it is strange when random internet folks bash heads of the CIA and FBI as gullible or willfully ignorant idiots. I suppose the average poster here IS super smart, but...

Jesus. You really are an idiot. He said people close to Trump have been convicted of illicit dealings involving Russia. Tell me who that is? It would be major news. Manafort? Flynn? They were all convicted of lying to the feds or financial crimes. But he calls it illicit dealings with Russia. Lies.

Over the last two years, what was the topic conservatives have accused others of having a conspiracy about? Here’s a hint. Russia. Shocker, I know. But since you’re incapable of following along, Figured I’d spell it out for you like a toddler.

Are you really this freaking idiotic?

So where in the post you quoted (which is quoted in this post as well) did he mention Russia? You said he was wearing a tinfoil hat due to this post. Then when I called you out on your stupid post, you said you were responding to his blatant lie about Russia. Where is the lie about Russia? I bet your IQ is right around the same ballpark as your age.

 

[toonces11]

Even the far right is closer to the center than wherever Trump is right now.
I agree about the professional part. His decisions wouldn’t be his own whims. He would actually have advisors do real research and hopefully not break anything while in office.
I prefer that the house be split or at least controlled by the opposition as it used to keep us on track. It’s now become a way to keep anything from happening and I am not sure I don’t prefer that to what we currently are witnessing.

I am from Indiana originally, so I get where Pence is coming from. I may not fully agree, but I’m pretty sure he isn’t going to suck up to Putin or Kim while spatting with Canada and the UK.

Anybody that has spats with UK is okay in my book---and every other non UK poster on here---sans kevin jumbo and lurker

 

[Global Havok]

Well, lemme know when he DOES pick out my lie, would you? I'm so curious!

"Jesus. You really are an idiot. He said people close to Trump have been convicted of illicit dealings involving Russia. Tell me who that is? It would be major news. Manafort? Flynn? They were all convicted of lying to the feds or financial crimes. But he calls it illicit dealings with Russia. Lies."

Even though he quoted your post about Capone while making his initial statement. I have no clue if/where you said what he claims, but it is entirely irrelevant to the actual conversation the adults were having before he starting have a seizure on his keyboard.