Busting Brackets' top 25 back courts for 20/21

[dukedevilz]

People are sleeping on our backcourt.

PG- Marcus Carr- Top returning PG in the Big Ten

SG- Gabe Kalscheur- Second most made three's (153) in the Big Ten, the past two seasons, behind Cassius Winston (157).

SF- Both Gach- Averaged 10.7 ppg and 2.9 apg in the PAC-12 last season.

I considered Minnesota, actually. Gach has not yet received a waiver, if I'm not mistaken. Carr certainly has All-American potential. Kalescheur shooting percentages dipped a bit last season, but if he returns to form and Gach is eligible, this could easily be a top 25 backcourt.

 

[Deathclutch]

I considered Minnesota, actually. Gach has not yet received a waiver, if I'm not mistaken. Carr certainly has All-American potential. Kalescheur shooting percentages dipped a bit last season, but if he returns to form and Gach is eligible, this could easily be a top 25 backcourt.

Gach hasn't received a waiver yet, but it would be pretty shocking if he didn't as he is from Minnesota. The NCAA hasn't been denying many waivers this year either. You never know with the NCAA though.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Here's my top 30. I'm simply basing this off of who I think will get the most minutes at the 1, 2, and 3 positions. Depth isn't really factored into my rankings.

1. Gonzaga: Jalen Suggs, Joel Ayayi, Corey Kispert
2. Villanova: Collin Gillespie, Justin Moore, Caleb Daniels
3. Baylor: Jared Butler, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague
4. Creighton: Marcus Zegarowski, Mitch Ballock, Denzel Mahoney
5. Kansas: Marcus Garrett, Bryce Thompson, Ochai Agbaji
6. Arizona State: Remy Martin, Alonzo Verge, Josh Christopher
7. Kentucky: Davion Mintz, BJ Boston, Terrence Clarke
8. Duke: Jeremy Roach, Wendell Moore, Jalen Johnson
9. Houston: DeJon Jarreau, Caleb Mills, Quentin Grimes
10. Louisville: Carlik Jones, David Johnson, Samuell Williamson
11. Illinois: Ayo Dosunmu, Trent Frazier, Adam Miller
12. Tennessee: Santiago Vescovi, Jaden Springer, Josiah-Jordan James
13. Texas: Matt Coleman, Courtney Ramey, Andrew Jones
14. Michigan State: Rocket Watts, Aaron Henry, Gabe Brown
15. Georgia Tech: Jose Alvarado, Michael Devoe, Jordan Usher
16. Oklahoma State: Isaac Likele, Ferron Flavors, Cade Cunningham
17. Texas Tech: Nimari Burnett, Kyler Edwards, Terrence Shannon
18. Alabama: Jahvon Quinerly, Jaden Shackelford, John Petty
19. Oregon: Will Richardson, Amauri Hardy, Chris Duarte
20. Richmond: Jacob Gilyard, Blake Francis, Nick Sherod
21. FSU: Anthony Polite, MJ Walker, Scottie Barnes
22. UConn: RJ Cole, James Bouknight, Tyrese Martin
23. Florida: Tre Mann, Noah Locke, Scottie Lewis
24. Ohio State: CJ Walker, Duane Washington, Justice Sueing
25. LSU: Ja'vonte Smart, Cam Thomas, Charles Manning
26. Michigan: Mike Smith, Eli Brooks, Franz Wagner
27. Virginia: Kihei Clark, Tomas Woldetenase, Jabri Abdur-Rahim
28. Dayton: Jalen Crutcher, Rodney Chatman, Ibi Watson
29. Memphis: Boogie Ellis, Landers Nolley, Lester Quinones
30. UNC: Caleb Love, RJ Davis, Leaky Black

How was UNC #7 and Arkansas #13? Arkansas lost Isaiah Joe recently. They'll have Desi Sills (10.6 ppg), Moses Moody (top 50 recruit), and a pair of mid-major transfers. As well as 2 other freshmen. Depth looks good, just don't think they have the star-power to have an elite backcourt. UNC will most likely start two freshmen and a very average Leaky Black. They might be better than last season, but not a top 10 backcourt. Hard to see Kentucky as the #1 backcourt, unless Devin Askew explodes and assumes the starting role.

That is how I would have the Big 12

1 Baylor
2. Kansas
3. Texas
4 Texas Tech
5 Oklahoma State
I would give Tech a slight edge because of depth.
But Oklahoma State has two great guards. Cunningham and Likele

 

[kyjeff1]

Number one grad transfer
A 5 star McDonald’s All American
Also a soph in DJ who went into CIS and got 19/7/4 as a frosh.

Okay, so are you saying that UofL's backcourt is better than any/all/some of the backcourts ranked ahead of them? If so, who? I mean, David Johnson averaged 6ppg and 16mpg and it sounds like he's the centerpiece of your backcourt, let me know if I'm wrong.
So, yeah, we all expect David will be a much better player this year, but you also have to assume the guys in the backcourts ranked ahead of UofL are going to improve too.
Hey, I get it, I didn't like seeing most of the 14 teams ranked in front of UK in the frontcourt ratings, but I can't complain, especially when UK only brings back one guy.
Is what it is, but when you look at the numbers, I don’t think you can argue with the ranking.

 

[UL_1986]

Okay, so are you saying that UofL's backcourt is better than any/all/some of the backcourts ranked ahead of them? If so, who? I mean, David Johnson averaged 6ppg and 16mpg and it sounds like he's the centerpiece of your backcourt, let me know if I'm wrong.
So, yeah, we all expect David will be a much better player this year, but you also have to assume the guys in the backcourts ranked ahead of UofL are going to improve too.
Hey, I get it, I didn't like seeing most of the 14 teams ranked in front of UK in the frontcourt ratings, but I can't complain, especially when UK only brings back one guy.
Is what it is, but when you look at the numbers, I don’t think you can argue with the ranking.

Carlik is damn good if you haven’t watched him play. David and Sam should take big leaps their soph year. I’m not saying we should be top 5 or anything, I’d say Devilz list is more accurate. I’d put us ahead of UT in the list you posted. Our back court has been our weakness the past few years but that isn’t the case this year is my point. Our front court was loaded last year, but that seems to be the question mark this season. Who knows. I wouldn’t put much stock into DJs stats last year. He’s a pure point with NBA height, and he’s probably going to play combo with Carlik.

 

[kyjeff1]

Carlik is damn good if you haven’t watched him play. David and Sam should take big leaps their soph year. I’m not saying we should be top 5 or anything, I’d say Devilz list is more accurate. I’d put us ahead of UT in the list you posted. Our back court has been our weakness the past few years but that isn’t the case this year is my point. Our front court was loaded last year, but that seems to be the question mark this season. Who knows. I wouldn’t put much stock into DJs stats last year. He’s a pure point with NBA height, and he’s probably going to play combo with Carlik.

The thing is, if you are a guard or sf on any of the teams on these lists, you’re "damn good". All these guys are good and most of them have the size, athletic ability and coaching to become breakout players, so it comes down to who can guess correctly.
One other thing to consider is, covid is going to play a role here. There might be times where key players have to sit out for two weeks. If that happens right before the tournament, there goes your chemistry.

 

[UL_1986]

The thing is, if you are a guard or sf on any of the teams on these lists, you’re "damn good". All these guys are good and most of them have the size, athletic ability and coaching to become breakout players, so it comes down to who can guess correctly.
One other thing to consider is, covid is going to play a role here. There might be times where key players have to sit out for two weeks. If that happens right before the tournament, there goes your chemistry.

If it’s anything like the NFL yes, but haven’t they discussed doing a bubble for the NCAA?

 

[Villian07]

Okay, so are you saying that UofL's backcourt is better than any/all/some of the backcourts ranked ahead of them? If so, who? I mean, David Johnson averaged 6ppg and 16mpg and it sounds like he's the centerpiece of your backcourt, let me know if I'm wrong.
So, yeah, we all expect David will be a much better player this year, but you also have to assume the guys in the backcourts ranked ahead of UofL are going to improve too.
Hey, I get it, I didn't like seeing most of the 14 teams ranked in front of UK in the frontcourt ratings, but I can't complain, especially when UK only brings back one guy.
Is what it is, but when you look at the numbers, I don’t think you can argue with the ranking.

I was gonna say it’s rich how you talk about the list guessing who will improve instead of known commodities when UK at one has the transfer from creighton and 3 freshmen, who while I’m sure are talented aren’t known commodities. But you hit that’s point with the FC. I actually think UKs fc is underrated and BC is overrated on this list but my opinion doesn’t mean much bc brooks and Sarr are the only ones I’ve seen play.

And again 6ppg and 16 mpg is skewed when u miss half the season and have to ease your way back in during the conference slate.

Also Carlik Jones was rated the number 1 grad transfer by some.

 

[kyjeff1]

If it’s anything like the NFL yes, but haven’t they discussed doing a bubble for the NCAA?

The season is like a month away, if there was a bubble, or a bunch of bubbles, we would surely know that by now.

 

[kyjeff1]

I was gonna say it’s rich how you talk about the list guessing who will improve instead of known commodities when UK at one has the transfer from creighton and 3 freshmen, who while I’m sure are talented aren’t known commodities. But you hit that’s point with the FC. I actually think UKs fc is underrated and BC is overrated on this list but my opinion doesn’t mean much bc brooks and Sarr are the only ones I’ve seen play.

And again 6ppg and 16 mpg is skewed when u miss half the season and have to ease your way back in during the conference slate.

Also Carlik Jones was rated the number 1 grad transfer by some.

The conversation was never about UK. I never complained about where UK was ranked in either list and I never puffed my chest out. Obviously they put UK's bc at #1, because there are several highly talented and highly ranked guys back there, but #1 is way too high, for now at least and the #15th ranked fc is about right. Brooks is the only returning player, so I'm glad to see they're at least ranked.

As far as Johnson's numbers, no, they’re not skewed. Why do you think they're skewed? He averaged 16mpg in the games he played and he averaged 6.3ppg and 2.3rpg in the games he played. He also shot 21% from 3 point range. Those numbers are not skewed, those are what he averaged.

 

[Villian07]

The season is like a month away, if there was a bubble, or a bunch of bubbles, we would surely know that by now.

Louisville is hosting a “mini bubble” with a bunch of scrub teams. Not sure how the scheduling is made out though. I assume the small schools will play each other in Louisville as well. WKU was in the mix but suddenly dropped out for some reason. Would have been nice to have a in state squad with some talent in there. I have no idea if any other schools are entertaining such an idea.

It’s a damn shame it’s all such a money grab bc it would have been pretty awesome to have a bubble consisting of good regional programs like UK, Cincy, Xavier, Purdue, Indiana, Ohio State, Tennessee etc. play round robin except ur conference foes maybe idk.

 

[JimboBBN]

So nuts. Big Blue Madness has already gone down in most years. College basketball is right around the corner and it feels like it couldn't be further away.

 

[Villian07]

The conversation was never about UK. I never complained about where UK was ranked in either list and I never puffed my chest out. Obviously they put UK's bc at #1, because there are several highly talented and highly ranked guys back there, but #1 is way too high, for now at least and the #15th ranked fc is about right. Brooks is the only returning player, so I'm glad to see they're at least ranked.

As far as Johnson's numbers, no, they’re not skewed. Why do you think they're skewed? He averaged 16mpg in the games he played and he averaged 6.3ppg and 2.3rpg in the games he played. He also shot 21% from 3 point range. Those numbers are not skewed, those are what he averaged.

They are skewed bc they eased him back in after his injury and he only played maybe half the season.

I don’t know his exact box scores, but if he only played 1 min against UK and didn’t score, then that would bring his average ppg and mpg down, and it’s especially magnified when he didn’t play 30 games. We will have to wait and see on the outside shooting, it was a shoulder injury so it could have affected him, not being able to put up shots while he had his arm in a sling, idk definitely something we are hoping he has improved on. But the ppg and mpg are most definitely skewed bc of the injury. If you can’t understand that, we will have to agree to disagree.

Regarding UK, I was just pointing out that you said the whole list was predicated I’m guessing who will improve and who won’t, not known commodities, when the same can be said for any of the freshmen, regardless of how talented. They aren’t known commodities at the college level either.

Coming into last year UK had very highly touted guys and recruits in the backcourt, and You already mentioned guys like EJ and Whitney who were highly touted and never lived up to the hype. Brooks showed flashes and I expect him to make a huge leap this year, and obv Richards had a phenomenal year. But before the season UKs FC looked better on paper than they turned out to be.

Not saying that will happen in this years class, just saying they aren’t known commodities either, just people guessing they will be sure fire studs, like people guessing who will and won’t improve. But like I said I’ve never seen any of the incoming guys play.

 

[Villian07]

So nuts. Big Blue Madness has already gone down in most years. College basketball is right around the corner and it feels like it couldn't be further away.

I know right. I haven’t heard if anyone is doing a midnight madness event. Seems pointless with little to no fans, but I know it’s all for the fans and recruits anyways so who knows.

Pretty bummed we probly won’t get to play down on 4th street or whatever though. One of Mack’s better off season ideas imo.

 

[Villian07]

Back to DJ when he came back his first few games he played 8 mins vs Akron scoring 9 pts, against SC Upstate 3 mins 4 points, vs WKU 9 mins 0 pts, Vs Michigan 4 mins 0 points, against Pitt 1 min 0 points, against TTech 7 mins 4 pts, then UK 1 min 0 points.

If you don’t see how those games coming back from an injury, as a freshmen, trying to find your roll within a team who had a GT pg emerge as a solid player and leader after DJs injury, Playing on a top 15-20 team, I don’t know what to tell you.

I was very mistaken on his number of games though, he appeared in 25 games not 15. Just seemed like way less bc of the games he barely played enough to break a sweat. But regardless, you remove the games where he played under 5 mins then his ppg and mpg are gonna go up drastically, imo. And I know I know u can’t just remove games, but he had 2 games he played 1 minute and the 2 more where he played 3 and 4 respectively. Plus he missed all the annual early season games against the scrubs sans SC Upstate and Akron (who played our asses off), where he would have gotten a chance to play in mop up duty a lot and pad his stats more.

Plus according to Mack he was gaining steam to becoming our starting PG before the injury right before the season starts.

This is why I believe his stats are skewed by the injury. And I get it, stats are stats, it’s Just my opinion he would have had better stats if he hadn’t got hurt before the season.

 

[UL_1986]

The conversation was never about UK. I never complained about where UK was ranked in either list and I never puffed my chest out. Obviously they put UK's bc at #1, because there are several highly talented and highly ranked guys back there, but #1 is way too high, for now at least and the #15th ranked fc is about right. Brooks is the only returning player, so I'm glad to see they're at least ranked.

As far as Johnson's numbers, no, they’re not skewed. Why do you think they're skewed? He averaged 16mpg in the games he played and he averaged 6.3ppg and 2.3rpg in the games he played. He also shot 21% from 3 point range. Those numbers are not skewed, those are what he averaged.

Those are what he averaged with limited minutes under a starter GT, and he didn’t shoot 3’s at a high volume. The man is a pure point who distributes the ball very nicely. Idrc to explain any of this to you though, because you clearly didn’t watch him play, which several others ITT have mentioned. There’s a reason he’s on a bunch of mock draft boards already for ‘21

 

[kyjeff1]

Those are what he averaged with limited minutes under a starter GT, and he didn’t shoot 3’s at a high volume. The man is a pure point who distributes the ball very nicely. Idrc to explain any of this to you though, because you clearly didn’t watch him play, which several others ITT have mentioned. There’s a reason he’s on a bunch of mock draft boards already for ‘21

Him being in mock draft boards means nothing. All you need is measurables (length, height, size) and athletic ability. They don’t care what you accomplish in college.
But again, I'm sure he's awesome, but if you're good enough to play in any of the backcourts listed in the link, you’re damn good too and you can improve just as much as David Johnson can. But lastly, it’s about the entire backcourt, not just one dude.

 

[UL_1986]

Him being in mock draft boards means nothing. All you need is measurables (length, height, size) and athletic ability. They don’t care what you accomplish in college.
But again, I'm sure he's awesome, but if you're good enough to play in any of the backcourts listed in the link, you’re damn good too and you can improve just as much as David Johnson can. But lastly, it’s about the entire backcourt, not just one dude.

That was my final point. DJ is an integral part of the backcourt, but Carlik Jones is receiving the most hype bc he’s already a proven product. How that translates to the ACC is the question. From what I’ve heard, he’s the real deal.