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ExitFlagger said:
Wright’s played to seed or better 9x in his 14 tourneys. He’s overachieved as much as he’s underachieved. 4 second round losses as a 1 or 2 isn’t good, but I think the titles more than make up for it. They were also two of the most dominant tourney runs of this era. The ‘18 team was as good as any team in recent memory.

At some point, one has to acknowledge that no one plays to seed every year. K has fallen on his face numerous times in the tourney and he’s considered the GOAT.
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K's also won 5 National titles and been to 13 FF's...

His two titles cannot be dismissed---And I am not doing that..BUT, losing in the 1st or 2nd round 4 times as a 1/2 seed, out of 7 trips, is well, not very good...I mean its not like he'slost 4 times as a 1/2 seed, out of 10, 11 or 12 times....But FOUR/SEVEN. Roughly 60% of the time, as a 1/2 seed, he is losing in the 1st weekend...

Great he payed to seed 9X's....Of those 9, three times he was a 9-seed, and in 2019 he was a 6. So that is expected...What is NOT expected, is losing 60% of the time as a 1/2 seed in the first weekend.

I like Jay...Seems like a class act...I just think those 2 titles have clouded views...
 
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SheriffBufordTJustice said:
He is the best basketball coach not at Duke, UNC, Kentucky or Kansas.
As soon as Roy Williams and Coach K retire might be considered the best coach in the game
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Possibly....That guy in East Lansing might not agree...Or the new dude they hired at Iona...Or that dude up in Spokane...Possibly the "other guy" that has won over a 1,000+- games...
 
IUfanBorden said:
Possibly....That guy in East Lansing might not agree...Or the new dude they hired at Iona...Or that dude up in Spokane...Possibly the "other guy" that has won over a 1,000+- games...
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Mark Few???

We have been through this before

There is a difference between Villanova and Gonzaga .

Gonzaga should try to get into the Big East IMO.
They have Creighton and Marquette. Already halfway there

Might give them that toughness that is lacking
 
IUfanBorden said:
Oh, I would take him...He's good...decent...sometimes very good...But I mean, look, when you have lost 8x's in the past 11 NCAAT's, in the 1st or 2nd round....4 of those times being a 1 or a 2 seed, I just have a difficult time proclaiming you as great...

JMO....
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I hear your argument and understand your point, again disagree. Iyou like consistency I would counter 477 wins at nova with a .722 win pct (also 122 wins at Hofstra) 7 regular season championships , 3 BET championships, 3FF and 2 NC's to date will get you in the Hall of Fame...and, he is only 60 years old... a few years left in the tank.
 
SheriffBufordTJustice said:
Coach K won only two NC in the time Jay Wright has been at Villanova

Give him 20 more years he may have 5 as well.

He was at Duke 20+ more years...
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Oh, the , "he has been coaching longer, thingy...." Got it... BUt hey, Jay could coach until he' 80...And stay at the same level....Pretty realistic...
 
IUfanBorden said:
K's also won 5 National titles and been to 13 FF's...

His two titles cannot be dismissed---And I am not doing that..BUT, losing in the 1st or 2nd round 4 times as a 1/2 seed, out of 7 trips, is well, not very good...I mean its not like he'slost 4 times as a 1/2 seed, out of 10, 11 or 12 times....But FOUR/SEVEN. Roughly 60% of the time, as a 1/2 seed, he is losing in the 1st weekend...

Great he payed to seed 9X's....Of those 9, three times he was a 9-seed, and in 2019 he was a 6. So that is expected...What is NOT expected, is losing 60% of the time as a 1/2 seed in the first weekend.

I like Jay...Seems like a class act...I just think those 2 titles have clouded views...
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Well, since we apparently don’t care that K has been at Duke since 1980, let me point out that he has 5 second round losses as a 1 or 2, plus a first round loss as a 6 and many more years in which he failed to play to seed.

Wright is actually on pace for more titles than K if he were to coach that long.
 
SheriffBufordTJustice said:
Mark Few???

We have been through this before

There is a difference between Villanova and Gonzaga .

Gonzaga should try to get into the Big East IMO.
They have Creighton and Marquette. Already halfway there

Might give them that toughness that is lacking
Click to expand...
Just curious---I mean, you seem pretty full of yourself....Illinois ain't a FF team....Few is ,well whatever you think it is....Big 10 not athletic....You seem to have self-appointed yourself as , well, the "know it all " here on Rivals....As if your word for some reason is the end of all means...

Funny thing, though---I rarely see anyone agree with you.

Also, why does Gonzaga need to be in the BE? Currently, the Zags have the nations longest consecutive SW 16 appearances wtih 5.... Elite 8, SW 16, Runner-up, SW 16, Elite 8...What, if in the BE, they what---??? Imean sure their conference is dog shit...Doesn't mean Gonzaga is...For the past 5/6 years, Gonzaga would easily compete in ANY P5 conference. ANY. Probably win a few titles(conference).

I like Wright...I just don't think he's elite.
 
IUfanBorden said:
Oh, the , "he has been coaching longer, thingy...." Got it... BUt hey, Jay could coach until he' 80...And stay at the same level....Pretty realistic...
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Point is...
The guy is going to have more success because he has coached at Duke for 20 seasons longer

Jay Wright may not ever win a NC again. He may win 4 more and finish with 6 .
We just don't know

But at this stage of his career he has the same amount as Coach K

2 a piece
But he better win another to keep pace by next year
 
IUfanBorden said:
Just curious---I mean, you seem pretty full of yourself....Illinois ain't a FF team....Few is ,well whatever you think it is....Big 10 not athletic....You seem to have self-appointed yourself as , well, the "know it all " here on Rivals....As if your word for some reason is the end of all means...

Funny thing, though---I rarely see anyone agree with you.

Also, why does Gonzaga need to be in the BE? Currently, the Zags have the nations longest consecutive SW 16 appearances wtih 5.... Elite 8, SW 16, Runner-up, SW 16, Elite 8...What, if in the BE, they what---??? Imean sure their conference is dog shit...Doesn't mean Gonzaga is...For the past 5/6 years, Gonzaga would easily compete in ANY P5 conference. ANY. Probably win a few titles(conference).

I like Wright...I just don't think he's elite.
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You celebrate accomplishments like Elite 8's and Sweet 16s

While I look at Final 4s and NC

To me Mark Few is closer to Frank Martin than he is Jay Wright
 
ExitFlagger said:
Well, since we apparently don’t care that K has been at Duke since 1980, let me point out that he has 5 second round losses as a 1 or 2, plus a first round loss as a 6 and many more years in which he failed to play to seed.

Wright is actually on pace for more titles than K if he were to coach that long.
Click to expand...
So, what you are saying is----Is that in 40 years, K has lost a mind-popping 5 times, as a 1 or 2, in the 1st second round?

Damn how did he ever keep his, job? Man this is gonna take a minute, but oh, well..

1986- 1 seed--Runner-up
1988--2 seed--Final Four
1989---2 seed--Final Four
1991----2 seed--Champions
1992--- 1 seed---Champions
1994---2 seed---Runner-up
1997----2 seed-- 2nd round
1998--- 1 seed---Elite 8
1999--- 1 seed---Runner-
2000-- 1 seed---SW 16
2001--1 seed---Champions
2002---1 seed --SW 16
2004--1 seed---Final FOur
2005-- 1 seed---SW 16
2006---1 seed---SW 16
2008---2 seed---2nd round
2009---2seed ---SW 16
2010--1 seed---Champions
2011--1 seed--- SW 16
2012--2 seed---2nd round
2013--2 seed---ELite 8
2015--1 seed---Champions
2017---2 seed--2nd round
2018---2 seed --Elite 8
2019---1 seed---Elite 8

So, 25 times K has been a 1 or a 2...Four of those times he failed to get past 2nd round...Or 12% of the time.....On the other hand.... 11 of those times, he reached the Final Four...Winning 5 titles, 4 times he made the Elite 8.

In other words, 15 times as a 1/2 seed, our of 25 times, K went to at least the Elite 8...

Yeah, lets keep comparing...JFC...
 
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SheriffBufordTJustice said:
You celebrate accomplishments like Elite 8's and Sweet 16s

While I look at Final 4s and NC

To me Mark Few is closer to Frank Martin than he is Jay Wright
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Yeah, sure....🤣

Not celebrating anyting...I just think to much is put on "winning a title". Its hard to do...Very hard. You think Kevin Ollie is on par with Bill Self? Or Tubby Smith is on par with Calipari or Izzo? You think Jay Wright is a better coach than Rick Pitino? YOu think Wright is better than Self? Where do rank Branch McCracken? To you, is John Wooden the best?

My answers are...NO---to all the questions.

Few "closer" to Frank Martin...JFC dude. You should be banned for that dumb shit. Frank Martin has won just over 60% of his games....55% currently @ South CArolina.. Been to ONE NCAAT in his 7 seasons in Columbia... BUt, but.....he went to a Final Four.

JFC....You gotta be a troll..
 
IUfanBorden said:
Yeah, sure....🤣

Not celebrating anyting...I just think to much is put on "winning a title". Its hard to do...Very hard. You think Kevin Ollie is on par with Bill Self? Or Tubby Smith is on par with Calipari or Izzo? You think Jay Wright is a better coach than Rick Pitino? YOu think Wright is better than Self? Where do rank Branch McCracken? To you, is John Wooden the best?

My answers are...NO---to all the questions.

Few "closer" to Frank Martin...JFC dude. You should be banned for that dumb shit. Frank Martin has won just over 60% of his games....55% currently @ South CArolina.. Been to ONE NCAAT in his 7 seasons in Columbia... BUt, but.....he went to a Final Four.

JFC....You gotta be a troll..
Click to expand...

Frank Martin recruited my nephew when he was at Northeastern
Good guy

But end of the day he has the same amount of Final 4s as Few .
 
Y'all enjoy the rest of your night

Interesting how some people view coaches.

Like I have said before. If the choice was Wright or Few
I would pick Wright to hang around for a day to learn about the game

Nothing against Few. The stuff Jay Wright puts out there is outstanding. One of the best basketball minds out there
Maybe if you switch places you would see more of a tougher program with Few

But in my mind

Toughness is created by the program while some programs just have tough players every once in awhile.

Big difference.
 
IUfanBorden said:
So, what you are saying is----Is that in 40 years, K has lost a mind-popping 5 times, as a 1 or 2, in the 1st second round?

Damn how did he ever keep his, job? Man this is gonna take a minute, but oh, well..

1986- 1 seed--Runner-up
1988--2 seed--Final Four
1989---2 seed--Final Four
1991----2 seed--Champions
1992--- 1 seed---Champions
1994---2 seed---Runner-up
1997----2 seed-- 2nd round
1998--- 1 seed---Elite 8
1999--- 1 seed---Runner-
2000-- 1 seed---SW 16
2001--1 seed---Champions
2002---1 seed --SW 16
2004--1 seed---Final FOur
2005-- 1 seed---SW 16
2006---1 seed---SW 16
2008---2 seed---2nd round
2009---2seed ---SW 16
2010--1 seed---Champions
2011--1 seed--- SW 16
2012--2 seed---2nd round
2013--2 seed---ELite 8
2015--1 seed---Champions
2017---2 seed--2nd round
2018---2 seed --Elite 8
2019---1 seed---Elite 8

So, 25 times K has been a 1 or a 2...Four of those times he failed to get past 2nd round...Or 12% of the time.....On the other hand.... 11 of those times, he reached the Final Four...Winning 5 titles, 4 times he made the Elite 8.

In other words, 15 times as a 1/2 seed, our of 25 times, K went to at least the Elite 8...

Yeah, lets keep comparing...JFC...
Click to expand...

That was the point. Why are you comparing titles when one of the coaches has been at a top school for 20+ years longer? You want to use titles in his favor and then dismiss the failures. Can’t have it both ways.

Like he said, Wright has as many titles as K had at this point in his career. That’s all that needs to be said about that.

By my count, K has failed to play to seed 50% of the time. Yet he’s considered by many to be the greatest ever. Again, the point is that even the best fail in March Madness and fail a lot.
 
ExitFlagger said:
That was the point. Why are you comparing titles when one of the coaches has been at a top school for 20+ years longer? You want to use titles in his favor and then dismiss the failures. Can’t have it both ways.

Like he said, Wright has as many titles as K had at this point in his career. That’s all that needs to be said about that.

By my count, K has failed to play to seed 50% of the time. Yet he’s considered by many to be the greatest ever. Again, the point is that even the best fail in March Madness and fail a lot.
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Where did I compare titles? I didn't. I simply pointed out that over his career, Wright has underachieved, with elite teams---And he has.

Fact that coaches fail a lot---even guys like K. Again---NOT THE POINT. Point is---AGAIN---that Jay Wright has underachieved with elite teams: Has lost 4 of 7 times in the 1st/2nd round as a 1/2 seed. He is losing as a 1/2 seed in the 1st/2nd round, 58% of the time....
 
ExitFlagger said:
That was the point. Why are you comparing titles when one of the coaches has been at a top school for 20+ years longer? You want to use titles in his favor and then dismiss the failures. Can’t have it both ways.

Like he said, Wright has as many titles as K had at this point in his career. That’s all that needs to be said about that.
Click to expand...
I'm not.....But why are you?

Also, I didn;t use K's titles in his favor, then dismiss his failures...You or the other dude---TexMex, brought up "K",and his failures...I simply pointed out that a coach with 5 titles and 12 FF's; 16 Elite 8's, is gonna get a little more slack, than a guy with 2 titles, who has constantly lost in the 1st/2nd round, as a 1/2 seed....
 
Jaycg15 said:
Yup, you're a moron if you believe this last sentence. Few is top 5 in the business.
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Dude is a troll....All over the place...That or he is just fukin stupid...I mean who compares Mark Few to Frank Martin?? Who?
 
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SheriffBufordTJustice said:
Y'all enjoy the rest of your night

Interesting how some people view coaches.

Like I have said before. If the choice was Wright or Few
I would pick Wright to hang around for a day to learn about the game

Nothing against Few. The stuff Jay Wright puts out there is outstanding. One of the best basketball minds out there
Maybe if you switch places you would see more of a tougher program with Few

But in my mind

Toughness is created by the program while some programs just have tough players every once in awhile.

Big difference.
Click to expand...
How do you view coaches? Oh, never mind---titles/FF's, etc, etc...

If toughness were that important---Frank Martin would have multiple titles. I'll take mentally tough dudes over physically tough dudes---All day.

Tougher program from GU, if they were in the BE? Are you serious? DO you even watch Gonzaga?

Also----Stick to football.
 
WCC vs Big 12/SEC

Competition isn't the same.

Nothing against Few. He enjoys where he is at but that is two different levels.

Martin is a hustler. Like I said he recruited my nephew so I am familiar with his get down.

But end of the Day...
They both have 1 Final 4

That is what you are trying to reach so you have a chance at a NC

A coach who has accomplished that in his career deserves credit

Who knows what Martin could do if he was handed a program at the mid major level that was about to take off.

I do know Few learned a lot from watching Dan Monson fail and has been smart to stay at Gonzaga

He is a great coach and runs a great program.

But we really don't know how elite he is until he gets more than 1 Final Four or coaches at a major conference

Do you think Few would have that type of success at a school in a major conference

Almost all the coaches in a major conference won at a mid major

Jay Wright is maybe one of the greatest coaches Hofstra ever had
 
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Novachp said:
Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion. But I'd be curious to see how many folks on this board wouldn't take him as their coach in a heartbeat. The good news is, you're coming along. You've gone from calling him a decent coach to a very good coach. Keep going, you'll get there!
Click to expand...

Jay Wright is an elite coach. Could get interesting as the dinosaurs head out to pasture. Meaning, does he take one of those elite jobs, or does he stay at Nova and become even MORE successful there?
 
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Question about "Benefit of the Doubt" and/or "Track Record"

Not saying I agree or disagree with that theory, but it seems to be selectively applied.

Another example, the strong opinions everyone has for Baylor reaching the FF. They haven't been to the FF since 1950.

Drew has been there 15+ years. Done a decent job. But if we are talking Final Four, benefit of the doubt, and track record... Baylor fails to fit the Final Four profile.

I think the bottom line is all posters have opinions and then use some info to fit their agenda but leave out the stuff that doesn't.

There are probably 30-40 Final Four contenders, maybe more.
 
Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
Kenpom has Duke #11. I like Kenpom but every poll will have a few glitches I guess.
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Never say never, but looks like he is there for life. Offered other gigs and said no to really big $$$. Often thought NBA would be what he would leave for, but as a born and bred philly guy with deep roots, when he took himself out of the Sixers latest search... nova fans breathed a huge sigh of relief.
 
SheriffBufordTJustice said:
Frank Martin recruited my nephew when he was at Northeastern
Good guy

But end of the day he has the same amount of Final 4s as Few .
Click to expand...
Your qualifiers are awful, inconsistent, and shallow. Few has 300+ more wins than Martin and 20% higher win percentage. It's not even a contest. If the Duke job opened, Few would be a candidate. Martin would not.

Mindboggling display of basketball acumen from someone pretending to be informed.
 
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Jaycg15 said:
What's the difference?
Click to expand...

Mark Few is a predator in a little pool of water.

So I look at his success much different than I would if he accomplished it in a major conference

But Gonzaga still has to win those preseason games.
Even though those games are a lot more important to Few and Gonzaga it is still an accomplishment.

They don't have as many chances as say a school in a major conference to earn Quad 1 wins.
 
SheriffBufordTJustice said:
Mark Few is a predator in a little pool of water.

So I look at his success much different than I would if he accomplished it in a major conference

But Gonzaga still has to win those preseason games.
Even though those games are a lot more important to Few and Gonzaga it is still an accomplishment.

They don't have as many chances as say a school in a major conference to earn Quad 1 wins.
Click to expand...
He's won 40 games against top 20 opponents. Let's stop the ignorance.
 
SheriffBufordTJustice said:
You play two Top 10 teams a year compared to six or seven.

You are going to put a greater importance on those two.

Still have to win the games but that is who Gonzaga is
A program who puts a greater importance on these early season matchups.
Click to expand...
Cool. Few's a top 10 coach in the game. That's consensus in cbb.
 
If Illinois loses tonight, you're still not right. It's dynamic, and Underwood's teams finish strong.
 
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