***Baylor vs Gonzaga: National Title Thread***

[dukedevilz]

Yes, Gonzaga has beat a lot of good teams in the tournament. Apparently more than anyone recently, save Michigan State. It's still pretty telling when you can't win against a top 3 seed.

And sure, it took K and Duke a while to get over the hump. But 11 years vs 22 years and counting is a huge difference. And Few has really been on that coaching staff for 30+ years.

So, what is it, a top 3-seed against Utah? Or top 10 KenPom wins against West Virginia and USC? Either way, they've clearly beaten a 3 seed, no matter how you define it.

And obviously Duke and Gonzaga aren't the same programs. Pre-1999, Gonzaga had exactly 0 zero tournament wins. Coach K had been a top 3 seed 8 times before winning it all... Mark Few just hit his 8th time as a top 3 seed. So really not that far off.

I don't think Few will ever catch K in titles, but if he can sustain this type of success, he should have a title eventually. I just know championships aren't easy to come by. We were a 1 seed 8 times in a 9 year span (98-06), and only came away with one ship. Gonzaga has only been a 1 seed four times in program history.

 

[tw3301]

Southern people are natural born losers. Can't win a war and they have shitty basketball for the most part.

You do realize that the ACC is mostly southern schools and has dominated college basketball for the past 30+ years right?

 

[LeroyOU12]

It’s always the dumb ones who are so confident. I’m pretty sure you can say ass over here, sorry you fvcks lost that privilege.

congratulation for being privilege one on here.

 

[tw3301]

So, what is it, a top 3-seed against Utah? Or top 10 KenPom wins against West Virginia and USC? Either way, they've clearly beaten a 3 seed, no matter how you define it.

And obviously Duke and Gonzaga aren't the same programs. Pre-1999, Gonzaga had exactly 0 zero tournament wins. Coach K had been a top 3 seed 8 times before winning it all... Mark Few just hit his 8th time as a top 3 seed. So really not that far off.

I don't think Few will ever catch K in titles, but if he can sustain this type of success, he should have a title eventually. I just know championships aren't easy to come by. We were a 1 seed 8 times in a 9 year span (98-06), and only came away with one ship. Gonzaga has only been a 1 seed four times in program history.

Gonzaga sucks.

 

[dukedevilz]

Gonzaga sucks.

Excellent rebuttal.

Are they overrated and overhyped? Probably a little. But, hard to say a team is completely overrated when they have the most NCAAT wins from the past 6 tournaments.

Most Tournament Wins Since 2015:
Gonzaga- 20
Villanova- 17
North Carolina- 16
Duke- 15
Kansas- 13
Michigan- 13
Kentucky- 13
Oregon- 11
Michigan State- 10
Virginia- 10

 

[JimboBBN]

I will hold the same opinion of Gonzaga until they prove they don’t shit themselves when it matters most.

 

[jhmossy]

Gonzaga is just the most current version of UVA. Something about them is a fatal flaw that prevents them from winning it all...until they win it all. Then, when Gonzaga does win it all, the fatal flaw will go to the next most dominant team that hasn't won it all.

 

[SpartanJD]

Is there a more overrated coach than Mark Few? Dude is 0-8 against 1 seeds and has only made two FFs. And he beat absolutely no one to get to the finals this year.

 

[LeroyOU12]

Gonzaga is just the most current version of UVA. Something about them is a fatal flaw that prevents them from winning it all...until they win it all. Then, when Gonzaga does win it all, the fatal flaw will go to the next most dominant team that hasn't won it all.

We didn't have internet back then, but I remember most sportcasters and papers were saying the same thing about Virginia when they didn't win any NC with Ralph Samson and a loaded roster. They were a dominant during Sampson years there.

 

[jhmossy]

We didn't have internet back then, but I remember most sportcasters and papers were saying the same thing about Virginia when they didn't win any NC with Ralph Samson and a loaded roster. They were a dominant during Sampson years there.

Yep. I can readily admit that UVA is one of the chokiest programs in sports. Some of the choke jobs across our programs over the years have been laughable. But we also have a good number of nattys in multiple sports too.

 

[LeroyOU12]

Yep. I can readily admit that UVA is one of the chokiest programs in sports. Some of the choke jobs across our programs over the years have been laughable. But we also have a good number of nattys in multiple sports too.

the beauty about BB tourney is the best teams don't always win but the ones that got hot at the right time. NC State had no business of being the on the same floor with Houston in the 80s but they won, so was Villanova vs Georgetown.

 

[dukedevilz]

lol nice.

 

[jhmossy]

lol nice.

and then two days later it means almost nothing

 

[LeroyOU12]

and then two days later it means almost nothing

had they won, it will be would be greatest shot just like Lorenzo Charles dunk vs Houston.

 

[dukedevilz]

and then two days later it means almost nothing

Sort-of. But, not quite. A few years ago I posted this picture on Facebook and captioned it, "Happy Anniversary!"

One of the sisters of a Carolina player commented on the photo, mentioning how the follow-up game in Cameron was the worst home loss for Duke in 23 years. I replied something to the effect of, "like anyone is going to remember that? The only thing people will remember about Duke-Carolina from 2012 is that Rivers made a buzzer-beater over Zeller." And ESPN continues to replay the Rivers shot over and over again. Same thing will happen with the Jalen Suggs shot. Yes, Gonzaga lost the grand prize, but Suggs is forever immortalized with one of the most iconic shots in NCAA Tournament history. CBS will never stop showing that buzzer-beater.

 

[SpartanJD]

You do realize that the ACC is mostly southern schools and has dominated college basketball for the past 30+ years right?

I wonder how many FFs the ACC has in the last 30 years that aren't UNC or Duke.

Maryland made it in 2001 and 2002. UVA in 2019 so that's three. Ga Tech lost to Uconn in the finals like 14 years ago or something right?


Zero programs outside of two in the ACC has had tournament success outside a random year or two in the last 30 years.

Virginia had been to zero FFs and only two Elite 8s in the last 30 years prior to 2019.

The rest of the ACC combined having only 4 final fours in the last 30 years is bad.

 

[jhmossy]

I wonder how many FFs the ACC has in the last 30 years that aren't UNC or Duke.

Maryland made it in 2001 and 2002. UVA in 2019 so that's three. Ga Tech lost to Uconn in the finals like 14 years ago or something right?


Zero programs outside of two in the ACC has had tournament success outside a random year or two in the last 30 years.

Virginia had been to zero FFs and only two Elite 8s in the last 30 years prior to 2019.

The rest of the ACC combined having only 4 final fours in the last 30 years is bad.

Would you rather be 1 for 1 in Final Fours or 0 for however many Final Fours for MSU since 2000?

 

[bMORE607]

I wonder how many FFs the ACC has in the last 30 years that aren't UNC or Duke.

Maryland made it in 2001 and 2002. UVA in 2019 so that's three. Ga Tech lost to Uconn in the finals like 14 years ago or something right?


Zero programs outside of two in the ACC has had tournament success outside a random year or two in the last 30 years.

Virginia had been to zero FFs and only two Elite 8s in the last 30 years prior to 2019.

The rest of the ACC combined having only 4 final fours in the last 30 years is bad.

You can't just eliminate UNC and Duke and say your argument is good. Do the same thing for the B1G, but eliminate UM and MSU.

 

[GhostOf301]

I wonder how many FFs the ACC has in the last 30 years that aren't UNC or Duke.

Maryland made it in 2001 and 2002. UVA in 2019 so that's three. Ga Tech lost to Uconn in the finals like 14 years ago or something right?


Zero programs outside of two in the ACC has had tournament success outside a random year or two in the last 30 years.

Virginia had been to zero FFs and only two Elite 8s in the last 30 years prior to 2019.

The rest of the ACC combined having only 4 final fours in the last 30 years is bad.

Fvck the conference pride bullshit. But the argument was that southern people are natural born losers. Not that every player on southern teams are southern people. But southern schools win most of the titles in basketball and football. Hardly a case for someone from white trash and meth country to make when he said that southern people are natural born losers. Over the past 20 champions (yep B1G can no longer claim a title in the last 20 years) 12 titles are from southern schools. Maryland is south of the Mason Dixon line and Kansas would probably identify more southern than northern. But we won't count them. The 8 titles from non southern schools are from 5 schools. UCONN (3), Villanova (2) Maryland, Kansas and Syracuse.

All that said, I recognize that the comment was mostly tongue and cheek.

 

[ExitFlagger]

I wonder how many FFs the ACC has in the last 30 years that aren't UNC or Duke.

Maryland made it in 2001 and 2002. UVA in 2019 so that's three. Ga Tech lost to Uconn in the finals like 14 years ago or something right?


Zero programs outside of two in the ACC has had tournament success outside a random year or two in the last 30 years.

Virginia had been to zero FFs and only two Elite 8s in the last 30 years prior to 2019.

The rest of the ACC combined having only 4 final fours in the last 30 years is bad.

Wait...outside of Duke/UNC, they have 4 final fours in 30 years?

 

[bMORE607]

Fvck the conference pride bullshit. But the argument was that southern people are natural born losers. Not that every player on southern teams are southern people. But southern schools win most of the titles in basketball and football. Hardly a case for someone from white trash and meth country to make when he said that southern people are natural born losers. Over the past 20 champions (yep B1G can no longer claim a title in the last 20 years) 12 titles are from southern schools. Maryland is south of the Mason Dixon line and Kansas would probably identify more southern than northern. But we won't count them. The 8 titles from non southern schools are from 5 schools. UCONN (3), Villanova (2) Maryland, Kansas and Syracuse.

All that said, I recognize that the comment was mostly tongue and cheek.

Yea if you're going old school, Maryland is technically in the south. But we're really Mid-Atlantic with Villanova, UVA, and GTown in that region as well.

 

[bignish]

Its misleading as ****...

In 2001 they were a 12 seed....Lost to #1 seed MSU in the SW 16..
2003--- 9 seed---lost to 1 seed AZ, 96-95 in 2 OT
2006- 3 seed----Lost to 2 seed UCLA
2009 4 seed---lost to 1 seed UNC
2010---8 seed----lost to 1 seed Syracuse
2011---11 seed----lost to 3 seed BYU
2012--- 7 seed----lost to 2nd seed OSU
2014--- 8 seed---lost to 1 seed AZ
2015----2 seed----lost to 1 seed Duke
2017----1 seed----lost to 1 seed UNC in title game
2019---1 seed---lost to 3 seed TT
2021--1 seed---lost to 1 seed Baylor in title game.

Only twice in those 13 games, was Gonzaga the higher seed: vs Texas Tech. and Baylor. And Baylor was the seocnd overall #1 seed.

People like throwing out stats, with no context. Makes them look smarter.

Some people are just braindead man, don't bother reasoning with them.

The Zags have been the most consistent and highest performing program in the NCAAT this century and its not even close.

I only wish my Duke Blue Devils could be similarily consistent. Clearly the Zags schedule doesn't affect them from doing great in the NCAAT.

 

[JimboBBN]

Some people are just braindead man, don't bother reasoning with them.

The Zags have been the most consistent and highest performing program in the NCAAT this century and its not even close.

I only wish my Duke Blue Devils could be similarily consistent. Clearly the Zags schedule doesn't affect them from doing great in the NCAAT.

Good lord. I’m sure you would trade your three championships this decade for “the highest performing program in the NCAAT”

You guys are something. If Gonzaga nut huggers keep screaming at the top of their lungs Gonzaga will win a title, eventually you might be right. But as of now, you keep getting told Gonzaga will choke in the biggest moments. And sure enough.

 

[TechFan88]

You definitely could have won. Should have is hard to argue. We were in control for most of that second half and had a pretty sizable lead until the end.

It went to OT. A few plays here or there.

Auburn has a far better claim to that title then tech does. Without okeke our best player and a botched call at the end

I mean the refs loved UVA that tournament we got called for a foul after they tripped over their own teammate. Fouling Moretti but then it just being a ball outoff Moretti.

 

[AuHoosier420]

It went to OT. A few plays here or there.



I mean the refs loved UVA that tournament we got called for a foul after they tripped over their own teammate. Fouling Moretti but then it just being a ball outoff Moretti.

fair point. Uva did catch every break possible from the officials in that tourney

 

[ExitFlagger]

It went to OT. A few plays here or there.



I mean the refs loved UVA that tournament we got called for a foul after they tripped over their own teammate. Fouling Moretti but then it just being a ball outoff Moretti.

Fix was in?

Or Bennett sold his soul?

 

[SpartanJD]

You can't just eliminate UNC and Duke and say your argument is good. Do the same thing for the B1G, but eliminate UM and MSU.

Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin and Ohio State have all played for a title in the last 15 years.

And yes I can do that because the ACC isnt some great league top to bottom as the guy was trying to argue. Its a two program league.

Yes, it matters. 1 FF every 8 years for the REST of the programs combined paints a dark picture for the state of ACC basketball outside Duke and UNC.

 

[SpartanJD]

Wait...outside of Duke/UNC, they have 4 final fours in 30 years?

Yeah. Pretty bad for supposedly the best basketball conference.

 

[JimboBBN]

Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin and Ohio State have all played for a title in the last 15 years.

And yes I can do that because the ACC isnt some great league top to bottom as the guy was trying to argue. Its a two program league.

Yes, it matters. 1 FF every 8 years for the REST of the programs combined paints a dark picture for the state of ACC basketball outside Duke and UNC.

Indiana hasn’t played for a title since 2002, brah

 

[SpartanJD]

Would you rather be 1 for 1 in Final Fours or 0 for however many Final Fours for MSU since 2000?

Easy. Id take continued elite success over the course of decades over a unicorn year any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[LeroyOU12]

Yeah. Pretty bad for supposedly the best basketball conference.

they're the best bc Dick Vitale said so.

 

[AuHoosier420]

Easy. Id take continued elite success over the course of decades over a unicorn year any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Nah. You are either first or you are last. I agree with mossy here.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Nah. You are either first or you are last. I agree with mossy here.

Says the guy who still brags about his team’s one fluke run. 😆

 

[bMORE607]

Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin and Ohio State have all played for a title in the last 15 years.

And yes I can do that because the ACC isnt some great league top to bottom as the guy was trying to argue. Its a two program league.

Yes, it matters. 1 FF every 8 years for the REST of the programs combined paints a dark picture for the state of ACC basketball outside Duke and UNC.

You can't eliminate two teams and call it a valid argument. Eliminate Kansas and the Big 12 looks like dog shit. Eliminate UCLA and Arizona and the PAC is a mid major.

The Big Ten hasn't won a championship in 20 years. Shut the fvck up.

 

[LeroyOU12]

Baylor/Waco party like old time, packed bar and no masks and that's freedom.

 

[hawkit3113]

Says the guy who still brags about his team’s one fluke run. 😆

Your anus belongs to me

 

[bMORE607]

Baylor/Waco party like old time, packed bar and no masks and that's freedom.

View embedded media

I wonder which sports journalist will complain about it first.

 

[LeroyOU12]

I wonder which sports journalist will complain about it first.

oh we all know they will, just don't know which one.

 

[AuHoosier420]

Says the guy who still brags about his team’s one fluke run. 😆

Because being first was taken away from us

 

[GhostOf301]

Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin and Ohio State have all played for a title in the last 15 years.

And yes I can do that because the ACC isnt some great league top to bottom as the guy was trying to argue. Its a two program league.

Yes, it matters. 1 FF every 8 years for the REST of the programs combined paints a dark picture for the state of ACC basketball outside Duke and UNC.

3 of those lost to ACC teams. Lol