Another school shooting

[coryfly]

I've never heard the invasion theory before. I think there are a lot of other reasons why other countries haven't tried to invade us that make a lot more sense than our citizens being armed. However, I'm also not for taking guns away. Sensible stricter gun laws is what I think most people are wanting here. We aren't talking about abolition.

 

[Dattier]

Why has no country ever tried to invade the United States, Dat? I know you’re just trying to be a smart ass, but the amount of guns in this country keeps us safe in more ways than one. Also, please tag the posters who have blamed dead kids in this thread. TIA

I'm being a bit sarcastic, but not very.

Every poster who wants to talk about school bullying before we really know anything about the murder's social situation instead of his access to a legal gun is essentially blaming the dead kids.

 

[bkingUK]

Why has no country ever tried to invade the United States, Dat? I know you’re just trying to be a smart ass, but the amount of guns in this country keeps us safe in more ways than one. Also, please tag the posters who have blamed dead kids in this thread. TIA

A country did try to invade the US and it wasn't stopped by handguns.

 

[JimboBBN]

A country did try to invade the US and it wasn't stopped by handguns.

When was this?

 

[bkingUK]

When was this?

December 7, 1941?

 

[JimboBBN]

December 7, 1941?

Oh yea, when zero enemy troops were on the ground. Quite the reach

 

[bkingUK]

Oh yea, when zero enemy troops were on the ground. Quite the reach

lol it's a pretty famous date

 

[JimboBBN]

lol it's a pretty famous date

Obviously, still a reach. All airplanes and thousands of miles away from the mainland. Come on.

 

[bkingUK]

Obviously, still a reach. All airplanes and thousands of miles away from the mainland. Come on.

We can argue about the semantics of the word invasion but it doesn't really matter.

Let's assume no citizens have guns for the point of your argument. The US has 300 million people, has a landmass that spans into two oceans, has neighbors whose military might pails in comparison, has allies on all hemispheres, has cutting edge aerial/naval technologies AND the logistics and resources for sending troops over an ocean for land occupation would be gigantic challenges to overcome for any country on earth. On top of all of this, full scale land occupation is not a common occurrence for any major country in the first place.

So, if we are listing reasons there hasn't been a land occupation in the US, citizens owning handguns is near the bottom of the list.

 

[IU_Btown_Chicago]

@IU_Btown_Chicago , gun nuts -- if you want to call them that -- have the upper hand here. You're not going to get anywhere calling them stupid. Be civil and don't give them an excuse to drag this into the gutter. Nothing changes and nobody wins that way.

People like SNU disregard logic and common sense. Having guns isn't going to save you from the government. This isn't the 1700s anymore. They aren't going to change. They don't want to change. His response is more guns especially when no country touches us in the amount of guns we have in this country. They have a third world mentality.

 

[IU_Btown_Chicago]

We can argue about the semantics of the word invasion but it doesn't really matter.

Let's assume no citizens have guns for the point of your argument. The US has 300 million people, has a landmass that spans into two oceans, has neighbors whose military might pails in comparison, has allies on all hemispheres, has cutting edge aerial/naval technologies AND the logistics and resources for sending troops over an ocean for land occupation would be gigantic challenges to overcome for any country on earth. On top of all of this, full scale land occupation is not a common occurrence for any major country in the first place.

So, if we are listing reasons there hasn't been a land occupation in the US, citizens owning handguns is near the bottom of the list.

And US citizens who fight gun control think they can defend themselves with guns if the US Government wanted to demolish them....shows the lack of logic, shows delusion on their part, and lack of common sense.

 

[treyforuk]

Dude. No need to qualify it or placate anyone. Some people have already made up their minds to blame schools and dead kids so that they don't have to worry about the possibility of not being able to defend themselves from the entire US military w/ the caché of guns from their safe space -- er, safe room.

Yeah, let's ignore the mental health issue and focus on the guns. You are right. You are the smartest on here.

 

[Dattier]

Yeah, let's ignore the mental health issue and focus on the guns. You are right. You are the smartest on here.

Is bullying really going to the back of the line, or is it going to cut in front of guns yet again?

 

[treyforuk]

Obviously, still a reach. All airplanes and thousands of miles away from the mainland. Come on.

911 could have had some responsible folks on planes armed to maybe prevent 1000s from dying. An ounce of prevention...

 

[treyforuk]

Is bullying really going to the back of the line, or is it going to cut in front of guns yet again?

That's your choice. You are the educator.

 

[JimboBBN]

We can argue about the semantics of the word invasion but it doesn't really matter.

Let's assume no citizens have guns for the point of your argument. The US has 300 million people, has a landmass that spans into two oceans, has neighbors whose military might pails in comparison, has allies on all hemispheres, has cutting edge aerial/naval technologies AND the logistics and resources for sending troops over an ocean for land occupation would be gigantic challenges to overcome for any country on earth. On top of all of this, full scale land occupation is not a common occurrence for any major country in the first place.

So, if we are listing reasons there hasn't been a land occupation in the US, citizens owning handguns is near the bottom of the list.

I think citizens should be able to have AR15’s, it should be hard to get them though. LOL if you think the government could overtake citizens in this country. Other than nuking us, which would do absolutely nothing for them, they are highly outnumbered in both people and guns.

 

[SNU0821]

People like SNU disregard logic and common sense. Having guns isn't going to save you from the government. This isn't the 1700s anymore. They aren't going to change. They don't want to change. His response is more guns especially when no country touches us in the amount of guns we have in this country. They have a third world mentality.

Nah bro it’s liberal idiots like yourself that think taking all guns away is going end all crime. I bet If we tickle the bad guns they’ll just go away, right? What’s it like to believe everything is all puppy dogs and rainbows? I literaly laugh out loud at how completely dumb you are. Honestly makes me embarrassed you’re associated with IU and The KSB. But please, keep it up. You’re gonna get Trump re-elected!

 

[JimboBBN]

And US citizens who fight gun control think they can defend themselves with guns if the US Government wanted to demolish them....shows the lack of logic, shows delusion on their part, and lack of common sense.

Lefties can be such clowns.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

They don't need a minority party to meet them halfway on a clean mental health bill. They don't even need a single Democratic vote. They can pass a mental health bill having nothing to do with guns.

Only one side politicizes it? Perhaps you're not surprised how these threads turn out b/c you're contributing to how they turn out.

Dat, did you ever take a Civics class in school?

The Senate rules require 60 votes. The majority have a total of 51. Schumer will salivate over such a vote. He votes on pure hatred.

 

[TheDude1]

If the military or law enforcement wants you, they'll take you. You think a bunch of civilians who think they are hot shit will be able to deal with actual trained shooters, who would flashbang you first and slaughter you second? Come on now. I am a decent shooter, and a decent shot on the move, and I know a little bit about CQB, and I would have absolutely zero chance against a trained individual. I shoot with some trained folks, and it is an absolutely ENTIRELY different animal.

And if we are REALLY sitting here having a conversation about how the US military and law enforcement would fair in a war against American civilians... that's a bit nutty.


It is AMAZING that EVERYONE on the left has said "We need better mental health care!"... and lefties tend to REALLY advocate for spending for that... but it seems like nobody on the right is acknowledging that... instead, the rightie folks seem to be insisting that lefties just want to ban all guns. I don't get it. Its like people cannot understand that you can take several approaches to minimizing risks.


BTW, some perspective...

More American school kids have been killed than American service members in 2018.

American teens are 82 times more likely to be killed in gun violence than children of other first world nations.

And no; no country has invaded the United States (unless of course you want to count 1812 and the whole mess at the Rio Grande with Mexico) because of two whopping great oceans, radar, a capable navy, and a dangerous airforce. It has absolutely nothing to do with us having guns. Nothing. NOTHING. That's a fact.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Shitty shitty shitty. Rense, repeat next time.

If one abortion is thwarted by @hailtoyourvictor 's or @Bert Higginbotha 's efforts on this board, consider that saving a child's life.

Yes.

The political divide in the U.S. is now so stark that I don't know how it can be fixed.

Abortion is murder. The government should not be involved with it until the 31st day (arbitrary number). I am pro-choice, but I will never touch any abortion because I may have to justify such shit to my Maker someday.

The liberal left is coming after our guns. They will not get mine. I think that there are about 200,000,000 more Americans who feel like me.

I know how this thread will come out. The liberal ******s will demand gun banning and at the same time justify the murder of millions of babies.

I don't need to be part of this. I could get banned.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

America loves guns more than it loves kids. Now that that's out the way. What are we going to do?

Make abortion easier. Hell, it is killing black kids and you support such murder.

God damn, Quavarius, do you want black genocide? That is what we are getting.

 

[IU_Btown_Chicago]

Yes.

The political divide in the U.S. is now so stark that I don't know how it can be fixed.

Abortion is murder. The government should not be involved with it until the 31st day (arbitrary number). I am pro-choice, but I will never touch any abortion because I may have to justify such shit to my Maker someday.

The liberal left is coming after our guns. They will not get mine. I think that there are about 200,000,000 more Americans who feel like me.

I know how this thread will come out. The liberal ******s will demand gun banning and at the same time justify the murder of millions of babies.

I don't need to be part of this. I could get banned.

Nobody is talking about taking away everyone’s guns. This is where idiots start making crap up. They want to get rid of some guns, get it out of the hands of crazies and make gun owners be more responsible.

 

[IU_Btown_Chicago]

Nah bro it’s liberal idiots like yourself that think taking all guns away is going end all crime. I bet If we tickle the bad guns they’ll just go away, right? What’s it like to believe everything is all puppy dogs and rainbows? I literaly laugh out loud at how completely dumb you are. Honestly makes me embarrassed you’re associated with IU and The KSB. But please, keep it up. You’re gonna get Trump re-elected!

You’re a moron and I am all cool for two separate countries if I didn’t have to deal with gun touting morons like yourself. The red states will realize how third world they are without blue state $$$$. Red states are the most dependable on federal money and Blue states put the most in.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Nobody is talking about taking away everyone’s guns. This is where idiots start making crap up. They want to get rid of some guns, get it out of the hands of crazies and make gun owners be more responsible.

I am not the idiot here, but you may be based on that post.

They want our guns. Hell, all you have to do is listen to your gd mayor.

Where are these "not responsible" gun owners? What have I ever done that should give the government the right to take my guns? I have owned a gun since my dad bought me a 410 shotgun for my 8th birthday. I have never shot at a human, never accidentally discharged a gun or anything else. Most gun owners are just like me.

You can't answer that, can you?

Guys like you are the reason that guys like me continue to send the NRA and my two Senators money.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

People like SNU disregard logic and common sense. Having guns isn't going to save you from the government. This isn't the 1700s anymore. They aren't going to change. They don't want to change. His response is more guns especially when no country touches us in the amount of guns we have in this country. They have a third world mentality.

And US citizens who fight gun control think they can defend themselves with guns if the US Government wanted to demolish them....shows the lack of logic, shows delusion on their part, and lack of common sense.

Nobody is talking about taking away everyone’s guns. This is where idiots start making crap up. They want to get rid of some guns, get it out of the hands of crazies and make gun owners be more responsible.

You’re a moron and I am all cool for two separate countries if I didn’t have to deal with gun touting morons like yourself. The red states will realize how third world they are without blue state $$$$. Red states are the most dependable on federal money and Blue states put the most in.

Poor red states folks are so stupid.

IU Btown chicago is a genius amounst fools.

 

[Dattier]

Guys like you are the reason that guys like me continue to send the NRA and my two Senators money.

Contributions like yours are why the NRA keeps telling you ghost stories about lib'ruls coming for your guns.

 

[IU_Btown_Chicago]

I am not the idiot here, but you may be based on that post.

They want our guns. Hell, all you have to do is listen to your gd mayor.

Where are these "not responsible" gun owners? What have I ever done that should give the government the right to take my guns? I have owned a gun since my dad bought me a 410 shotgun for my 8th birthday. I have never shot at a human, never accidentally discharged a gun or anything else. Most gun owners are just like me.

You can't answer that, can you?

Guys like you are the reason that guys like me continue to send the NRA and my two Senators money.

And see here is your problem. You only look at yourself. There are numerous examples of bad gun ownership on a daily basis. Parents leave guns unlocked and out. I was at someone’s house when I was a kid and they had ammunition on the kitchen table. People need to be more responsible and accountable if there guns aren’t probably stored and they happen in a crime like yesterday. Parent should be held accountable for yesterday if found his guns weren’t properly stored, locked up or whatever.

People look at themselves and are like well I am fine....they don’t want to take away your guns. Countries that have stricter gun laws don’t do that. They do ban assault rifles but that’s it. They just have longer waiting periods, psych evaluations on the regular, gun safety classes that are mandatory, etc. Why don’t you guys want this? It sounds like common sense.

They don’t want your guns. They just want the assault rifles and common sense to prevail.

 

[IU_Btown_Chicago]

Poor red states folks are so stupid.

IU Btown chicago is a genius amounst fools.

Well you are a fool with what you posted...so in relation to you, yes I am.

 

[SNU0821]

And see here is your problem. You only look at yourself. There are numerous examples of bad gun ownership on a daily basis. Parents leave guns unlocked and out. I was at someone’s house when I was a kid and they had ammunition on the kitchen table. People need to be more responsible and accountable if there guns aren’t probably stored and they happen in a crime like yesterday. Parent should be held accountable for yesterday if found his guns weren’t properly stored, locked up or whatever.

People look at themselves and are like well I am fine....they don’t want to take away your guns. Countries that have stricter gun laws don’t do that. They do ban assault rifles but that’s it. They just have longer waiting periods, psych evaluations on the regular, gun safety classes that are mandatory, etc. Why don’t you guys want this? It sounds like common sense.

They don’t want your guns. They just want the assault rifles and common sense to prevail.

Here’s the problem. Let’s say they ban assault rifles. What’s next when the school shootings continue? Take the incident yesterday where the kid had a shotgun and a pistol. What then? Ban those types of guns? What happens then when kids use knives or bombs? Where does it stop? I think what most conservatives are fearful of is once the policies don’t result in the intended outcome, new policies will be provided. So then we continue diving down this hole where our 2nd Amendment is chipped away at until it’s gone. Taking away the tool isn’t the answer here because crazy people will find something to get the job done. Plus, criminals and people who kill others don’t care about the laws. It’s like all the kids in FL after Parkland screaming about taking away assault rifles. They actually thought that would stop school shootings. Welp. The kid yesterday used a shotgun and a pistol. So
Much for that movement....

Side note, I’m not really worried about having guns to protect myself from the government. I carry my guns because I want to make sure I can protect my family if ever need be. I have my assault rifles for fun (hog hunting/sport shooting).

 

[SNU0821]

Oh, and one other thing. Kid used a sawed off shotgun. Interesting point is it’s illegal. He also used pipe bombs which are also illegal. You know what wouldn’t have stopped yesterday from happening? Additional gun control. What could have stopped yesterday? Additional school safety measures.

 

[TheDude1]

Research shows that it isn’t mental health care or frayed racial relations or a more violent culture that leads to more mass shootings; it’s actually far more simple and logical: more guns = more shootings. Shocking.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/...-international.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

 

[SNU0821]

Research shows that it isn’t mental health care or frayed racial relations or a more violent culture that leads to more mass shootings; it’s actually far more simple and logical: more guns = more shootings. Shocking.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/...-international.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Oh look a NY Times article. No bias here. None I tell ya. But the most idiotic liberal on this board posts an article like this? Shocking (not really).

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Contributions like yours are why the NRA keeps telling you ghost stories about lib'ruls coming for your guns.

You bet.

Plus, my ears work, and I watch CNN and MSNBC. Those bastards don't let their guard down at all; they expressly tell us their plans; up front and honestly: they want ever damned gun in the U.S.so they can institute Marxist socialism.

I am not paranoid about my guns and I would love to see some compromises made; however, those “progressive” bastards are not going to let any reasonable compromises be made and agreed to by them. I am armed (pun intended) with the second amendment of the U.S. Constitution. That gives us Americans the “right” to own a gun. Fvck “progressives”, the dudes that want to take guns away.

You “progressives” must hate my Second Cousin, James Madison, for writhing that damned Constitution and the “Bill of Rights”. He really crammed it up the Socialists butt.

The “progressive” dudes that want my guns don’t have the power to amend the U.S. constitution to remove the second amendment, so the only thing that they can do is to chip around the foundation of the second amendment. They can stick it up their asses on that. I send money to the NRA and my Senators and my Congressman every year, to make damned sure that they know my positions. Additionally, I know my Senators and Congressman on a personal basis and they all agree with me on this subject.

Dattier, there is a reason why there is an NRA. Folks like me know exactly why we contribute to the NRA. I don't agree totally with the NRA. We do not need assault rifles like the AR-15; however, the "progressives" will not let us ban them because they will define it so that I lose my hundred-year-old guns because they will shoot as fast as an AR-15. If we agree to an “assault rifle” ban they will instantly redefine what an “assault rifle” IS and it will include my pump Winchester .22 as an “assault rifle”. You probably don’t remember that Bill Clinton personally removed that from the “assault rifle” laws back in the 1990’s. So, don't give me that song and dance about "assault" rifles.

Additionally, I have a bunch of pistols and the "progressives" want them all. Not just a few, but ALL.

How damned stupid do you think we gun owners are?

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

And see here is your problem. You only look at yourself. There are numerous examples of bad gun ownership on a daily basis. Parents leave guns unlocked and out. I was at someone’s house when I was a kid and they had ammunition on the kitchen table. People need to be more responsible and accountable if there guns aren’t probably stored and they happen in a crime like yesterday. Parent should be held accountable for yesterday if found his guns weren’t properly stored, locked up or whatever.

People look at themselves and are like well I am fine....they don’t want to take away your guns. Countries that have stricter gun laws don’t do that. They do ban assault rifles but that’s it. They just have longer waiting periods, psych evaluations on the regular, gun safety classes that are mandatory, etc. Why don’t you guys want this? It sounds like common sense.

They don’t want your guns. They just want the assault rifles and common sense to prevail.

Bull shit.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Well you are a fool with what you posted...so in relation to you, yes I am.

I know what my IQ is.

You?

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Oh, and one other thing. Kid used a sawed off shotgun. Interesting point is it’s illegal. He also used pipe bombs which are also illegal. You know what wouldn’t have stopped yesterday from happening? Additional gun control. What could have stopped yesterday? Additional school safety measures.

Don't confuse the "progressives" with facts. They are too stupid to understand FACTS.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

I don’t think it is interesting and the disparity doesn’t shock me. Poverty or people in poverty are more likely to commit crimes or be in that lifestyle. I see that list and go down. I am like that makes sense. Why is more crime in the US caused in high poverty areas? Same logic. We are richer overall which makes their numbers per capita larger.

Research shows that it isn’t mental health care or frayed racial relations or a more violent culture that leads to more mass shootings; it’s actually far more simple and logical: more guns = more shootings. Shocking.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/...-international.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Ooh so when other countries out pace us in murders per capita it’s becsuse of their violent culture but when to the U.S. it has nothing to do with culture. Shocker.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Well you are a fool with what you posted...so in relation to you, yes I am.

Bert is a smart guy. I disagree with him quite a bit but that doesn’t take away from the fact that he is intelligent. No need to insult him.

 

[Dattier]

Here’s the problem. Let’s say they ban assault rifles. What’s next when the school shootings continue? Take the incident yesterday where the kid had a shotgun and a pistol. What then? Ban those types of guns? What happens then when kids use knives or bombs? Where does it stop? I think what most conservatives are fearful of is once the policies don’t result in the intended outcome, new policies will be provided. So then we continue diving down this hole where our 2nd Amendment is chipped away at until it’s gone. Taking away the tool isn’t the answer here because crazy people will find something to get the job done. Plus, criminals and people who kill others don’t care about the laws. It’s like all the kids in FL after Parkland screaming about taking away assault rifles. They actually thought that would stop school shootings. Welp. The kid yesterday used a shotgun and a pistol. So
Much for that movement....

Side note, I’m not really worried about having guns to protect myself from the government. I carry my guns because I want to make sure I can protect my family if ever need be. I have my assault rifles for fun (hog hunting/sport shooting).

While yes, there are some people who are so intent to kill that they'll use whatever is at their disposal to do it, there is also pretty compelling evidence out there that removing the easiest means of doing so reduces the incidents, let alone the extent of the damage. There's no legit comparison between the physical exertion required to pull a trigger and the effort it takes to stab or bludgeon someone to death.