2 Transgender boys
- Thread starter oldsports_
- Start date
How so? I don't think its necessary to celebrate it as if it was some sort of special achievement but transgenders who get a successful sex change operation should absolutely be able to participate in the same events for their new gender.
Are you saying that a boy-turned-girl should be banned from participating in the girls' events?
We're talking about very special cases here; a division between male and female within sports exists from grade school to the Olympics.
And therein lies the rub... there is a division because there IS such a difference, physically, between men and women, a difference that makes men dominant in sports.
So when you have something like a sex change, which is an incomplete process and which obviously cannot completely change the physical nature of a man or woman, how do you account for that fairly?
Renee Richards started this crap. Man, that was creepy in the 70s. (No pun intended).
For the young ones who don't know Renee Richards.
To quote Superman's tag line.
Look it's a Bill Waton, It's a Caitlyn Jenner, No it's Renee Richards.
You can't but I'd rather let that transgendered individual have an inherent biological advantage over the other girls than marginalize and discriminate against that individual.
What sort of message are we sending if we are telling that girl you can't participate in the event for your officially recognized gender? We either give her full rights/privileges as the girl she now or we're undermining her operation.
Separate but equal is inherently unequal.
Geeze are you sick?
Where did God or Government give you the "right" to "change your sex"?
Your "official" gender is the sex you were born in. If you want to change it that is fine with me, but you don't then go and compete against your opposite sex. Damn!
good lord, are we really legitimately considering not letting boys compete against girls as discrimination? IDGAF what surgery or hormones you're taking, unless you're a mutant born with both male and female genitalia you don't get to pick your gender. are we going to get to pick our race next? Everyone should go apologize to Rachel Dolezal for running her out of the NAACP. Jesus tap dancing Christ... We have to eventually draw the line somewhere and say, hey this is crazy- maybe we shouldn't let minors whose brains haven't fully developed make life altering decisions with hormones and puberty blockers. Or maybe I'm a bigot and we should start letting 5 year olds that identify as golden retrievers begin transitioning and competing in dog shows.
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You have a very extreme stance on this, one that does not logically makes sense unless you’re just trying to shelters trans people and their feelings.
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Men are stronger and faster than woman, it doesn’t take a genius to know that. Any guy turned girl will have an extreme upper hand in any woman’s competition.
Again, what you said makes zero sense logically. You are basing your position off of trying to shelter people and not hurt their feelings.
So it’s fair to let guys turned girls compete against normal girls? Not at all. If you do that you are letting the trans person get what they want, but at the same time hurting everyone else’s chances who are their fairly. The girls who have trained and busted their ass to try and win the right way can’t because we can’t afford to let a trans person feel left out. So silly.
anon_0astpxev9h4gk
Well-Known Member
Separation of Church and State. You should know, seeing as how you’ve been involved in legislation..
anon_0astpxev9h4gk
Well-Known Member
Easy target. Path of least resistance.
You're making a generalization that men are stronger and faster than women first off. Ronda Rousey can beat the crap out of both of us, no? Diana Taurasi would beat most men 1 on 1 in hoops.
Even among the same biological gender, people are born with distinct advantages. Kawhi Leonard is taller and has a much larger wingspan than him so he has an advantage over me in a sport like basketball even if I put in the same level of effort as him at it since birth.
It's not about sheltering these individuals Jimbo as much as it is about recognizing their gender selection as being legitimate post operation.
You can't say you're in support of the LGBT community if you place endless restrictions on what they can or cannot do.
You're either all in or you're all out. A former boy having a physical advantage over other girls is more acceptable to me than discriminating against her based on her chosen gender based on some preconceived notion that all men are athletically superior to all women.
While I think I disagree, I do get your point. If we recognize a gender change, then it should be all or nothing; otherwise, are you really recognizing it?
That said, I think that the "fairness" of the sports competition might overrule, for me, the gender discrimination. I am not usually a slippery slope guy, and it ABSOLUTELY creates this weird category for trans athletes, but...
You sure can support the lgbt community and also not agree with all their demands. They don’t get free reign over what people think is acceptable.
You’re just wrong on this. Rhonda would get her ass whooped by any male MMA fighter and it wouldn’t be close. Comparison you made is way off. It is all about sheltering them. I’ll say it because it’s true. They aren’t real men and they aren’t real women. Would I say that to them in real life? No. I’m not an asshole. But since this is a message board and we are debating, I see no problem calling a spade a spade. Those are facts.
And you're using extreme examples to prove a point. Could Ronda Rousey and Diana Taurasi beat most guys in their respective sports? Yes, of course! But they're both in the 99.9999%. The 2010 Census recorded 112 million Americans between the ages of 18-44. So you're looking at 56 million guys. If we're looking at someone who is in 50 percentile, is it really that impressive when a female is beating a guy who's not even in the top 28 million for his own gender?
The women's world record for the mile is 4:12, which is pretty darn solid. I'll even admit that it's a little faster than my mile time. But I literally know dozens of guys (probably 40+) that have faster mile times than that.
Not sure what the current status is, but previously the government was funding cosmetic surgery for those serving in the military that were seeking a sex change. Expenses can easily exceed $100,000 for all of the mutilating processes/procedures and maintenance that takes place.
Eh, yeah, but they cover most medical costs, no? Not sure if that is really a great example?
Ok, you're anti-LGBT then which is your prerogative. No one's sheltering anybody. You just can't empathize with someone whose brain doesn't identify with the sex they were born with and thus associate with the other gender.
I think a lot of you are confusing gender and sex. They aren't just interchangeable; a person's sex is determined by their physical biology. While gender on the other hand is who a person is, their personality, sense of self, likes/dislikes, etc. Gender is innate, it's something that isn't chosen, it's who you are.
All a trans person is doing is trying to physically alter their appearance so their outward self matches their true personality. Would you want to live the rest of your life knowing you identify with being a man/woman but the rest of society sees you as a different gender?
There's definitely some chemical/hormonal imbalance at play during birth that resulted in but a trans woman deserves just as much right to be female than forced to be a male as a lesbian deserves to have society accept that she is attracted to women and not men instead of having to hide the fact for the rest of her life.
I mentioned extremes for sure but that's all I need to do to illustrate my point. A trans woman isn't going to just dominate all the other females because she was born a man; its going to come down to a combination of her work ethic, physical development, skills, etc as well.
Again, I'm not denying there isn't a physical advantage in *most* situations but my point is that's life, it's not designed to be fair.
I'm much more keen on preventing racial and gender discrimination than upholding the fairness of athletic competition if I have to choose.
I'm picking the lesser of two evils.
You're either all in or you're all out.
If calling a spade a spade in the discussion of sports means I’m anti LGBT then that’s fine. I’m dealing with facts and you aren’t.
Every should compete against everyone. Life isn’t fair so why ever divide a sport by sex?
Nope. A man dressed like a woman player in my wife’s softball league but he was terrible so it didn’t rustle me. If he was smoking 98 mph hot shots at her I would have called him out.
Again, why ever split up divisions anywhere then? Why not have a single 100m dash where men and women both race and the fastest human wins? Why have a women’s 100 and men’s 100?
Yeah, I've heard transgender softball leagues like than can be pretty tough.
I'm sure it's not the first time balls have flown at your wife's face either though to be fair.
What're you talking about? I've stated my position clearly.
I'm agreeing in most cases that there's an advantage in sports for a trans woman but I'm saying I don't care. The amount of discrimination and intolerance these individuals face on a day to day basis dwarfs whatever physical advantage they would have in a sporting event.
If we're calling a spade a spade, I would definitely advocate that a trans man should only participate in male sporting events even though his biological sex is female. This would give him a disadvantage in this case so it works both ways.
Jimbo, you're a good person and I know you would never insult someone in public even if you disapprove of their lifestyle or orientation. We can just agree to disagree here.
I'm honestly fine if they remove all divisions in sports. I was just referring to the status quo in society as it stands today.
I have a few gay friends that are against this whole gender choosing junk and are tired of it getting mentioned along with gays and lesbians. Guess they're anti-T not LGB, we don't need to lump everything in together.
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