Which Active NBA player has best chance at all time top 10?

SheriffBufordTJustice

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You just need to stop, man. You’re making it apparent you don’t know anything about hoops. I’ve watched Warriors games since RunTMC. And I’ve been a big fan of Dame his whole career. But one is the best shooter in the history of basketball and one is a good shooter who has deep range.

Steph’s NBA career average (11 seasons, the vast majority being the best player on his team) from 3 is more than 3 percentage points higher than Dame’s BEST season.

Let that sink in. The best that Dame has ever done, is worse than Steph’s career average...by a significant margin.

And it’s the same at the FT line too. Steph’s career average is better than all but two of Dame’s seasons. Thats not a result of Steph having help. He’s just a better shooter.

Steph’s career average in steals is better than Dame’s best season.

Steph’s career average efg% is better than Dame’s best season.
Cherry Picking stats...

You have a low basketball IQ. This has been proven numerous times on this message board

You can admit this and learn something or continue in your own stupidity.

The difference between the two is based on the team.

If you want to make a point you would make one about the fact that Lillard isn't really making the players around him that much better.
But this is something hard to prove because you cant just change players to see what will happen.
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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You mean Steph’s 103.2 win shares and his .207 win shares per 48, vs Dame’s 81.9 win shares and his .176 win share per 48?

Are those the ones you’re talking about?

Dame’s best season was a 12.6 win share. Steph has 4 seasons equal to that or greater...consecutively.
Not a huge gap...

Neither of them will be ever considered Top 10 players..

But point is Lillard has as much of an argument as Curry even without the NBA Championships
 

GE Nole

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Cherry Picking stats...

You have a low basketball IQ. This has been proven numerous times on this message board

You can admit this and learn something or continue in your own stupidity.

The difference between the two is based on the team.

If you want to make a point you would make one about the fact that Lillard isn't really making the players around him that much better.
But this is something hard to prove because you cant just change players to see what will happen.
Hahahaha. Okay, boss. The guy who routinely finishes in the top of the pickems has a low hoops IQ. I literally stated on this board like 20 min ago that what separates Steph is that he elevates the play of those around him.

How exactly is picking stats about shooting cherry picking when we are talking about the difference between them as shooters?

Steph’s WS/48 in the 2016 season is the 8th most in the history of the NBA. Only players above him are some dudes named Kareem, Wilt, MJ, and Lebron. But tell us more about how he wasn’t an elite player.

FWIW, Dame’s best season (2018) is ranked 217th all time.
 
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SheriffBufordTJustice

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Hahahaha. Okay, boss. The guy who routinely finishes in the top of the pickems has a low hoops IQ. I literally stated on this board like 20 min ago that what separates Steph is that he elevates the play of those around him.

How exactly is picking stats about shooting cherry picking when we are talking about the difference between them as shooters?

Steph’s WS/48 in the 2016 season is the 8th most in the history of the NBA. Only players above him are some dudes named Kareem, Wilt, MJ, and Lebron. But tell us more about how he wasn’t an elite player.

FWIW, Dame’s best season (2018) is ranked 217th all time.
You would be incorrect...

Because Curry was there with the Warriors and they weren't any good.

If you followed the Warriors like you claim you would know what turned them from a Lottery Team to a Playoff Team.

Wasn't just Curry
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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Look at Curry's first three seasons

Like people say....Size matters

His fourth season there was a change with the Warriors and it came from a player who also doesn't get enough credit for the Warriors success and that was Draymond Green.
I know Barnes was a rookie that year. But the difference with the Warriors like I said earlier was when Draymond Green was put in the starting lineup.


So like I said earlier
Klay/Curry/Draymond Green formed one of the greatest teams in NBA History

But by themselves they wouldn't be the same.
Even if you think Curry makes the players around him better. But the proof was that Draymond Green made that team better and not Curry.
 

AWilli6995

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Better to look like a fool to the ignorant than be an actual fool...

Damian Lillard is an elite player.
Guards can't carry their teams much further than he has.

Individually Lillard is probably a better player
But basketball is a team game. You win by having elite teams and not elite players...

You say Dame is elite but Steph isn't? That's crazy. Elite players make elite teams but the only team that won a title were the Detroit Pistons when Larry Brown was coaching them. Chauncey, Ben/Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton were not household names.
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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You say Dame is elite but Steph isn't? That's crazy. Elite players make elite teams but the only team that won a title were the Detroit Pistons when Larry Brown was coaching them. Chauncey, Ben/Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton were not household names.
Both are elite players

But only one had an elite team.

Point is that Lillard and Curry by themselves are about the same.

Elite guards don't make elite teams.
Because guards can't impact the game as much as a big can.

What made the Warriors an elite team was Steve Kerr putting Draymond Green as a full time starter and giving him 10 more minutes than Mark Jackson did.

Compare 2013-2014 Warriors vs the 2014-2015 Warriors
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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I thought Memphis was going to knock out the Golden State Warriors that year.
2014-2015

They came close. They landed some early punches.

But that series changed quickly.
If you really want to understand the Warriors watch that second round series vs Memphis

Because Memphis had size and they were a bully. They tired to bully Golden State.
 

GE Nole

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Look at Curry's first three seasons

Like people say....Size matters

His fourth season there was a change with the Warriors and it came from a player who also doesn't get enough credit for the Warriors success and that was Draymond Green.
I know Barnes was a rookie that year. But the difference with the Warriors like I said earlier was when Draymond Green was put in the starting lineup.


So like I said earlier
Klay/Curry/Draymond Green formed one of the greatest teams in NBA History

But by themselves they wouldn't be the same.
Even if you think Curry makes the players around him better. But the proof was that Draymond Green made that team better and not Curry.
Written in 2010:
Written in 2017:


Draymond isn’t Draymond without Steph and Kerr. The Warriors brass literally shipped out Monta Ellis because they knew they had something special with Curry. The team, the system, the coaching staff, it was all built around him and his unique talents.
 

GE Nole

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Both are elite players

But only one had an elite team.

Point is that Lillard and Curry by themselves are about the same.

Elite guards don't make elite teams.
Because guards can't impact the game as much as a big can.

What made the Warriors an elite team was Steve Kerr putting Draymond Green as a full time starter and giving him 10 more minutes than Mark Jackson did.

Compare 2013-2014 Warriors vs the 2014-2015 Warriors
Bogut was the big difference maker underneath against Memphis.

Steph led the series in points, assists, and steals.
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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Draymond Green gives the Warriors the ability to play small and not lose anything.

This is why Steve Kerr increased the minutes of Green.

Why without Green the Warriors struggled against LeBron.

There is so much proof that Draymond Green is the one who made the Warriors an elite team.

Nothing against Curry he is an unbelievable player and I enjoy watching him.

But Green is a dog.
Not winning in the NBA without dogs. Without a player who will and can do anything to win.

Not many players who have walked on the court like Draymond Green.

Most great players like him want to score 20 plus points.
Green has never cared about any of that
 

GE Nole

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Yes, every title team has guys like Green. That’s of course true. Water is wet and NBA teams need guys like Green to be elite.

Rajon Rondo, Dennis Rodman, Sam Cassell. Guys like that.

But Draymond isn’t carrying a team. He isn’t someone you can build a title team around. They are a critical part, but not THE guy.

Heck, you’re the one who seems to like win shares. Just look at the win shares for Golden State those years.
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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The first thing I have always told people playing basketball....

Can you be the best player on the court without putting the ball in the basket

How about just without the ball. Can you impact the game when the ball isn't in your hands


Especially after MJ not a lot of players understood this

So when I see players like this I am going to make sure they get their credit


If you ask me. I am rolling with Green.

If I had the choice of one player off that team to play with it would be Draymond Green.
Nothing against Curry.
 
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GE Nole

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The first thing I have always told people playing basketball....

Can you be the best player on the court without putting the ball in the basket

How about just without the ball. Can you impact the game when the ball isn't in your hands


Especially after MJ not a lot of players understood this

So when I see players like this I am going to make sure they get their credit


If you ask me. I am rolling with Green.

If I had the choice of one player off that team to play with it would be Draymond Green.
Nothing against Curry.
And this is what you’re clearly failing to understand. The gravitational pull of Curry.

It’s been studied in depth by NBA folks. He impacts the game so so so much without the ball, because of the threat he presents. He literally changed the geometry of the court, creating massive amounts of space for his teammates to operate within. This isn’t a new concept.

It’s like Bonds with his intentional walks. Steph Curry made a massive impact just when he was standing on the court without the ball.
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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And this is what you’re clearly failing to understand. The gravitational pull of Curry.

It’s been studied in depth by NBA folks. He impacts the game so so so much without the ball, because of the threat he presents. He literally changed the geometry of the court, creating massive amounts of space for his teammates to operate within. This isn’t a new concept.

It’s like Bonds with his intentional walks. Steph Curry made a massive impact just when he was standing on the court without the ball.

No one saying it isn't...

But like I said. Look at the Memphis series

The series didn't change because of Curry nor Klay Thompson
It changed because Draymond Green was tired of the Warriors getting pushed around and people thinking they were soft


Regarding the NBA...

They like to promote players.

Green is a hard player to promote because he is an asshole.

But Curry is a lot more likeable.
Promotion of Curry is the reason you believe the way you do
But remove the noise and you see how underappreciated Green really is.

Draymond Green himself said that series is what changed the Warriors.
 
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Original_Irish

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2019 Conference Finals. Portland vs Golden State without Durant (Which equates to $30 million in salary cap).

Golden State Swept 4-0
Steph 36-8-7 on 47% 43% and 94% shooting
Dame 22-5-8 on 37% 37% and 89% shooting

You're so wrong Sheriff that I can't take you seriously....... again
 

Original_Irish

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Steph has career playoff stats of 26 5 and 6 on 50% 40% and 90% shooting

He is a 50-40-90 guy for his career in the playoffs........
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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2019 Conference Finals. Portland vs Golden State without Durant (Which equates to $30 million in salary cap).

Golden State Swept 4-0
Steph 36-8-7 on 47% 43% and 94% shooting
Dame 22-5-8 on 37% 37% and 89% shooting

You're so wrong Sheriff that I can't take you seriously....... again
What does that prove....

Lillard is doing it by himself.

For him to take a team like Portland to the Conference Finals is an accomplishment in itself

I don't care how great a guard is...
He can't carry a team by himself. This belief has always been the case in basketball.


It is a big man's game
Even today with people spreading the floor
 

Original_Irish

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Steph's Finals Stats

2015: 26.0 pts, 6.3 ast, 5.2 reb
2016: 22.6 pts, 3.7 ast, 4.9 reb
2017: 26.8 pts, 5.4 ast, 8.2 reb
2018: 27.5 pts, 6.8 ast, 6.0 reb
2019: 30.5 pts, 6.0 ast, 5.2 reb
 

Original_Irish

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What does that prove....

Lillard is doing it by himself.

For him to take a team like Portland to the Conference Finals is an accomplishment in itself

I don't care how great a guard is...
He can't carry a team by himself. This belief has always been the case in basketball.


It is a big man's game
Even today with people spreading the floor
No Dame isn't. But Steph did it against Dame without 20% of his Salary Cap. You seriously can't make this argument. You have zero proof or numbers to say that Dame has been better. It's just your opinion and your opinion sucks.
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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No Dame isn't. But Steph did it against Dame without 20% of his Salary Cap. You seriously can't make this argument. You have zero proof or numbers to say that Dame has been better. It's just your opinion and your opinion sucks.
They still were the best team in the West without KD....

Lillard has a ceiling as a PG.
All PGs have the same ceiling. Even Curry.

Curry wouldn't make Portland a NBA Championship caliber team.

No PG can.
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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Disagree again. Isaiah did it, Magic did it, Jason Kidd did it.
????

Magic played with Kareem. All Magic's NBA championships were with Kareem

The year they went without Kareem they had James Worthy still and a young Divac.

Magic was also 6-9...
Size matters like I said


Regarding Isaiah.

Joe Dumars and Dennis Rodman were keys to that team among others.

I don't see the Pistons winning without some of the players they had.

Isaiah was the leader but he was leading great players

Regarding J Kidd.
There were at least 5 better teams in the West that year.
Kidd did get the Nets to the NBA Championship without much outside of Collins and Richard Jefferson but the East was very weak that year.
 

Original_Irish

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????

Magic played with Kareem. All Magic's NBA championships were with Kareem

The year they went without Kareem they had James Worthy still and a young Divac.

Magic was also 6-9...
Size matters like I said


Regarding Isaiah.

Joe Dumars and Dennis Rodman were keys to that team among others.

I don't see the Pistons winning without some of the players they had.

Isaiah was the leader but he was leading great players

Regarding J Kidd.
There were at least 5 better teams in the West that year.
Kidd did get the Nets to the NBA Championship without much outside of Collins and Richard Jefferson but the East was very weak that year.
Just so I'm clear, who won it for the Warriors in 2015?
 

AWilli6995

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????

Magic played with Kareem. All Magic's NBA championships were with Kareem

The year they went without Kareem they had James Worthy still and a young Divac.

Magic was also 6-9...
Size matters like I said


Regarding Isaiah.

Joe Dumars and Dennis Rodman were keys to that team among others.

I don't see the Pistons winning without some of the players they had.

Isaiah was the leader but he was leading great players

Regarding J Kidd.
There were at least 5 better teams in the West that year.
Kidd did get the Nets to the NBA Championship without much outside of Collins and Richard Jefferson but the East was very weak that year.


You're all over the place. You said PG, you didn't list any height requirements nor who they played with. Elite players make elite teams, something you're arguing against.
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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You're all over the place. You said PG, you didn't list any height requirements nor who they played with. Elite players make elite teams, something you're arguing against.
But you are claiming that is was the PG...

J Kidd made the Nets a great team.

I think you can make an argument there. But the Lakers were tested more in the West.

Nets would have been the sixth maybe seventh best team in the West.

Magic didn't carry the Lakers by himself

Kareem played a large part as well as James Worthy.

Same thing with Isaiah.

Detroit was loaded. Joe Dumars is considered one of the best defensive shooting guards in the history of basketball.
Definitely one of the better two way guards in basketball

This isn't even mentioning their front court plus Vinnie Johnson
 

GE Nole

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They still were the best team in the West without KD....

Lillard has a ceiling as a PG.
All PGs have the same ceiling. Even Curry.

Curry wouldn't make Portland a NBA Championship caliber team.

No PG can.
They were still the best team in the west because of Steph lol.

4-0 Sweep without a hall of famer. Because Steph is that much better than Dame.
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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They were still the best team in the west because of Steph lol.

4-0 Sweep without a hall of famer. Because Steph is that much better than Dame.
They were already the best team in the West without Durant.
That series didn't prove that.


You continue to accept the point that I am making.

The Warriors aren't great because of an individual player ...

They are great because they played team basketball.

They changed how a lot of people look at the NBA.
Teams like Portland and Houston still get by playing iso ball.
But they can't ever get through Golden State. Has nothing to do with Curry.
 

GE Nole

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They were already the best team in the West without Durant.
That series didn't prove that.


You continue to accept the point that I am making.

The Warriors aren't great because of an individual player ...

They are great because they played team basketball.

They changed how a lot of people look at the NBA.
Teams like Portland and Houston still get by playing iso ball.
But they can't ever get through Golden State. Has nothing to do with Curry.
So even though the entire style and roster was built around Curry, and even though he’s the selfless leader who encapsulates team-ball better than any other PG in the league, and even though he’s the straw that stirs the drink with and without the ball, and even though the efficiency numbers plummet when he’s not playing...it “has nothing to do with Curry.”

Smh. I’ve read a lot of crappy takes on here, but damn.
 
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SheriffBufordTJustice

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So even though the entire style and roster was built around Curry, and even though he’s the selfless leader who encapsulates team-ball better than any other PG in the league, and even though he’s the straw that stirs the drink with and without the ball, and even though the efficiency numbers plummet when he’s not playing...it “has nothing to do with Curry.”

Smh. I’ve read a lot of crappy takes on here, but damn.
Not exactly because the Warriors had major issues with Curry for about 5-6 seasons.
What changed the Warriors wasn't as much Curry as was Steve Kerr.

You are throwing all the credit towards one player in a system not built around one player but an entire team.


Watch the Warriors in 2012 and 2013
Compare that to the Warriors in 2015 and 2016
 

IUfanBorden

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top 10 players of all time shouldn't be fighting for MVPs with role players.
Was Kevin Durant a role player? He won the other 2 MVP's.

Also, it was criminal that Steph wasn't named MVP of the 2015 Finals. He avg 26ppg for the series...Led GS in scoring 5 of the 6 games(Iggy tied him for game high honors twice). Iggy was lauded by Stein for his defense on LBJ, as to why he voted for him....Yeah Marc, that :"D" by Iggy held LeBron to a series avg of 35ppg... Laughing
 
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IUfanBorden

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The first thing I have always told people playing basketball....

Can you be the best player on the court without putting the ball in the basket

How about just without the ball. Can you impact the game when the ball isn't in your hands


Especially after MJ not a lot of players understood this

So when I see players like this I am going to make sure they get their credit


If you ask me. I am rolling with Green.

If I had the choice of one player off that team to play with it would be Draymond Green.
Nothing against Curry.
There is absolutely NO WAY you are being serious...If you had to choose ONE player, who could impact the game, w/o the ball in his hands, you are choosing.....

Draymond Green?

Wow....As one poster said, Curry had the Bonds effect. I mean dude, Bonds was once intentionally walked----with the bases ****ing loaded. That is having an impact by simply being in the box.

Same with Curry. You have to account for his EVERY move. Where he is at all times. Dude could stand in the corner for 48 minutes, and have more of an impact on the game, than Draymond could ever have(w/o the ball).

Dude this has to be the worst take I have ever read on here...Wow.
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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There is absolutely NO WAY you are being serious...If you had to choose ONE player, who could impact the game, w/o the ball in his hands, you are choosing.....

Draymond Green?

Wow....As one poster said, Curry had the Bonds effect. I mean dude, Bonds was once intentionally walked----with the bases ****ing loaded. That is having an impact by simply being in the box.

Same with Curry. You have to account for his EVERY move. Where he is at all times. Dude could stand in the corner for 48 minutes, and have more of an impact on the game, than Draymond could ever have(w/o the ball).

Dude this has to be the worst take I have ever read on here...Wow.
Some of you didn't watch the Warriors too much when they weren't an elite team.

Do me a favor. Watch the 2013-2014 Warriors vs the 2014-2015 Warriors
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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No need to...To insinuate that Green can impact the game more than Curry, w/o the ball, is ****ing ignorant, dude....

Why not?

Curry was on the team doing his thing but there was a major change with the Warriors

I am attempting to get some you to realize the difference between the 45 win Warriors with pretty much the same players as the 60 win Warriors

Draymond Green played a major part...
 

IUfanBorden

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Why not?

Curry was on the team doing his thing but there was a major change with the Warriors

I am attempting to get some you to realize the difference between the 45 win Warriors with pretty much the same players as the 60 win Warriors

Draymond Green played a major part...
I agree...Green played a major part. It still doesn't justify saying Green would be/is, more impactful without the ball, than Curry.

Man, think about that---Ok? Curry is one the greatest shooters of ALL-TIME. Him just being on the floor, makes him a threat----And from ANYWHERE. Dude could stand in the corner, and draw more attention than Green would alone, under the fukin basket, bro... Laughing

Its a very, very bad take. No way would Draymond Green impact the game more...Wow.
 
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SheriffBufordTJustice

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I agree...Green played a major part. It still doesn't justify saying Green would be/is, more impactful without the ball, than Curry.

Man, think about that---Ok? Curry is one the greatest shooters of ALL-TIME. Him just being on the floor, makes him a threat----And from ANYWHERE. Dude could stand in the corner, and draw more attention than Green would alone, under the fukin basket, bro... Laughing

Its a very, very bad take. No way would Draymond Green impact the game more...Wow.
Yet you are only looking at a small part of basketball