So we are onto something here.
What would you want to put around that.
Wheeler is probably capable of enough to continue this
What's your pre season rankings?
- Thread starter ThePhog08
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So we are onto something here.
What would you want to put around that.
Wheeler is probably capable of enough to continue this
I've been doing that a lot with him lmao
Recruiting picked up After he created a job to hire former card milt wagner (which i have no prob with bc we would have hired him if first if he had his degree, cal just got creative) to land his son dejuan, milt then introduced cal to www, and cal used those connections to become the greatest recruiter ever.
Then he Goes on historic tear when hired at uk, until.......he asks www to step out of the spotlight of the UK basketball program, and cal then stopped landing the top 5 receuits (more specifically the top recruit) like he did hisfirst few years when www was sitting behind the bench.
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He’s admitted that he basically follows nothing outside of Big 12 ball, yet he wants us to treat him like the ultimate authority.
Guy needs attention in a bad way.
Where did I say that though? He took a program, UMass, that had been to the tournament ONCE to the final four, losing to arguably the best college team ever (who they beat in the regular season). Memphis wasn't anything to write home about when he got there either, and once again turned them into a dangerous program. That is my whole point. He got elite results at not elite programs before Kentucky. Also, AFAIK Cal is at least .500 against K, Roy and Self at Kentucky. That's pretty good against three other elite programs.
I'm not saying Cal is the best coach, especially today. I think he has struggled to adapt to modern offenses the way others have. Roy was the same way tbh. Just that the fans on here who say he sucks and can't coach are morons. This year will be a real interesting test to see if he can change. They have a bunch of shooters but also a lot of bigs. If he goes back to playing three bigs like he did last year I'll fully believe he's done.
It just gets tricky trying to seperate the recruiting aspect with the actual coaching aspect. There is a very distinct diff if the two, But again i understand its all part of the job.
considering everything a coach is required to do as part of his job description, cal is absolutely a HOF coach.
Just Xs and Os and in game coaching, im not so sure. And i dont think he cant coach or just rolls the ball out but i also dont think hes one of the top game coaches in cbb. I think he closes that gap with almost always having better talent. Jmo
But at the end of the day its always gonna be about wins and losses and sans last year his record speaks for itself, hence why hes in the hall of fame.
considering everything a coach is required to do as part of his job description, cal is absolutely a HOF coach.
Just Xs and Os and in game coaching, im not so sure. And i dont think he cant coach or just rolls the ball out but i also dont think hes one of the top game coaches in cbb. I think he closes that gap with almost always having better talent. Jmo
But at the end of the day its always gonna be about wins and losses and sans last year his record speaks for itself, hence why hes in the hall of fame.
You didn't---but you didn't acknowledge the difference either. Recruiting at Kentucky is different than recruiting at TTU. If you are gonna say recruiting is part of being a coach---that is fine. I agree. But you also gotta realize the differences in recruiting at a blue blood, opposed to that of a baseball school.
No doubt he took a bad Umass program to great heights...Great job there. MOF, probably one of the most underrated coaching jobs ever. UMass was a shit show. He turned them into a power.
Memphis on the other hand was a decent, solid, established program, that had some success. ---17 NCAAT, 2 FF's, before Cal got there. Finch had a lot of success. After him, the prgram was meh. Cal restored what was, and took them to heoghts not seen since Dana Kirk.
Cal is a Top 10, X and O's guy. No argument there. I just think the talent he's had, hid some of his flaws, more so than others. Sure this is true for most coaches---just seems a tad more obvious with Calipari. ANd maybe thats b/c as his talent has dropped, his results have also dropped. His early numbers at UK were absurd...But now that has leveled off a ton...Coincidence? I dunno.
You really think he’s top 10 in Xs and Os?
I don’t see that. I think he’s a good motivator and knows defense, but is lacking in offensive coaching and in-game adjustments.
Ill give him above average, but not top ten imo either.
Again only 1 ff without the number 1 draft pick on the roster. And only 1 title with what 5 number 1 picks in his career? And that took the 1st and 2nd pick and 2 more first rounders, as well as 2 others that played in the league.
Granted march madness is the ultimate crapshoot and he never flames out early. Plus Success.
He's definitely deserving of HOF status based on the overall resume, but I don't think he's the sort of coach who could consistently beat teams with similar or better talent by way of Xs and Os.
I understand hang-ups on him, but there's no denying his talents as a coach. Dribble drive, winning %, HOF status.
It doesn't take much effort to focus on negatives. If motivated, I can point out flaws of every coach, player, poster.
Point being, he's pretty good at coaching basketball.
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That was exactly my point in one of the previous posts, that recruiting is part of a college coaches job. Of course it's easier to recruit at Kentucky. That doesn't need to be said.
Now? Probably not. Before last year, yes. You don't go to what, 4 final fours, in a decade without being a damn good coach.
Stripping a coach down to just X's and O's is a bit unfair lol. That is just one aspect of coaching. We've had extremely few chemistry problems under Cal. He takes top talent and gets them to mesh. Manages one of the most difficult programs and does it well. Top 10 active coaches. I would say he fits in there somewhere.
We had Pitino who couldn't coach X's and O's worth a lick in tight games. Still successful.
Let's see how he gets it done this year. Total different style of offense. He was successful at what all the pundits said he couldn't. One and Dones..... Now let's see how he does in the mass transfer market.
damn straight on pitino, ive seen us be down one or down two at the end of the game and dribble 20 secs off the shot clock before shooting like we were tied. Used to blow my mind like wtf.
Will admit that matchup zone was so filthy when everyone was on the same page, i mean just overwhelming at times.
Will admit that matchup zone was so filthy when everyone was on the same page, i mean just overwhelming at times.
So he forgot how to coach over a 9 month span?
That’s not something that you just lose overnight.
Coaches don’t often go to 4 final fours in a decade, but they also don’t often have their pick of the talent pool like he had. We have no idea what other coaches could have done with that.
Arguing that he may not be top 10 in the nation in Xs and Os isn’t exactly an insult. If it were clear that he’s top 10 in that dept, combined with being one of the top recruiters to ever coach, there wouldn’t be a single fan questioning whether he’s the right guy for the job. He would have everyone’s blessing to coach until he dies.
And hed have like 4 titles, at least, if he was. one at memphis with rose and then 2010wall/cuz/bledsoe/patterson, the one he got in 2012 and obv 2015 as well with like 7 nba players or something silly, 2 being kat and booker.
But he kinda already does have a lifetime contract so the last sentence doesnt make sense. Can u take those back as a school???
But he kinda already does have a lifetime contract so the last sentence doesnt make sense. Can u take those back as a school???
About his 4 Final Fours....Two of those came from teams that could be argued among some of the best ever....2012/2015. Among his other two, the 2014 was loaded with talent. Both Harrison's, Randle, WCS, Young, Johnson and Lee were all 5 stars.. Young team that took some time. But nonetheless, crazy talent.
I like Cal. Good coach. But since the talent has somewhat dried up, well not so sure its no coincidence he hasn't been to a FF in 6 years; though one could argue his 2020 team was playing some good ball.
The Ducks are probably worthy of that top 10 ranking. The services have then 14-16ish.
Richardson was never 100% last year and they have tons of transfer and Fr talent coming in. Could be a bumpy start, but don't be surprised if they end up in the EE of even FF
Altman is one of the better late season coaches still at it.
Richardson was never 100% last year and they have tons of transfer and Fr talent coming in. Could be a bumpy start, but don't be surprised if they end up in the EE of even FF
Altman is one of the better late season coaches still at it.
The fans didn’t give him a lifetime contract and many wanted to run him out of town a few months ago.
He hasn't lost it overnight, but slowly you can see the sport changing and Cal being resistant against it. This year will be the year to show. He has a lot of pieces but no real star. Most fans still don't question him. His "down" period since 2015 is still like 3 conference titles and multiple elite 8s. Most coaches would kill for that success.
This is incredibly reductive. The 2014 team was an 8 seed and went through an undefeated Wichita State who was better than the year before when they made the final four. Beat defending champs and arch rival UL. Then knocked off runner up Michigan and a very good Wisconsin team. All 4 of those teams were super talented too. Recruiting rankings obviously matter but it's not as simple as getting highly ranked guys and winning. Indiana wouldn't still be shit if it was.
I'm not arguing the results haven't been as good. But they had an E8 team in 2017 and 2019. A couple different bounces and they make the final four. 2020 they ran away with the SEC and had Maxey who LOVED the bright lights. They had a decent shot there.
2014 had no business being an 8 seed. That team, though young, was crazy talented. And arguably one of the worst shit jobs by the NCAA putting UK as WSU, 8 seed, TBH. Undefeated and you get THAT UK team, as your 8? JFC. UK went on that run, well, because they were really good, with really good players. They were an 8 seed due to lack of OOC wins---lost to UNC, Baylor and MSU. Beat UL. Not to mention losing 4 of their last 7 games. Albeit, 2 of those were to #1 FLorida. Them being an 8 seed was ridiculous, TBH. Probably one of the times where I felt UK was yacked on seeding.
That team was really good. But even then, they were multiple shots away from losing---including in the 2nd round game with WSU. Shot missed....UK shots went in---Next stop, NCAA title game. But in that game, the shot didn't go in.
Again----I like Cal. But he did what he did early on the coattails of WWW, i.e., grabbing not just the top talent, but THE top talent. He doesn't have that connect anymore, not to mention Duke dipping its hand in the pool. Add it up, and it has slow down the train quite a bit. With equal or lesser talent, Cal just isn't that dangerous. And even when he does have it---he's shown that isn't always enough either.
Ive pointed out a few times that hes only got 1 that he didnt have the #1 pick on the roster, and that was 2014.
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Not to mention in 2014 we were a 4 seed in the same damn region where we had beat wich state and michigan the previous year in the final four,plus our arch rival UK being as criminally underseeded as Louisville bc we were ranked like 5-6th in the nation and got a gd 4 seed.
Ill also pay @IUfanBorden a crisp 100$ bill if he will rewatch that UK/UL game and say it was officiated fairly with a straight face. We have a dude who went a bit bananas and broke down every damn possession and call, against us and them, bad call, good call, non calls rhat should have been or questionable and the non/bad and questionable were around 60-40% favoring UK, and thats being generous. I dont remember the actual number. Dude was a bit over the top screen shotting every possession, but its not like he wasnt pointing out the calls they missed or called that benefitted us as well there were just many more that benefitted UK. He literally did every possession, some would be like not much to say here, randle scored on post up or russ hits a mid range jumper off a screen. And he even acknowledged some were 50/50 calls, tough to make either way ie questionable calls that could have feasibly went the other way.
My fave is always the ref looking right at harrisons foot on the baseline as he made a pass and not blowing the whistle. Or the main pic the CJ used after the game of dakari smacking mangoks forearm as he went up for a hook shot with no call of course. Or poythress drawing a foul on hancock by pump faking and when luke jumped Poythress used his off arm and pushed luke smooth Out of bounds and goes up for an and 1 😂 It was laughable. Hancock fouled out and had prolly 2 legit fouls. Same with trez, i remember 2 specifically that were garbage, one a charge he got for landing on harrison who undercut him on a high pass he had to jump for at the elbow.
Guess just have been more to vacate had we made a run anyways tho, but at the time it was pure trash.
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Our teams were pretty even last year and we bring in a lot more than you guys do.
Torvik has us #3 with Kofi, and that’s with Hutcherson (who will start) not even having stats in the database.
Cal needs to get at least 1 if not 2 of the "can't miss" 5 stars each year and he's failed to do that since 2015.
2021: Chet, Banchero, Jaden Hardy
2020: Green, Cunningham, Mobley
2019: Wiseman
2018: Barrett, Zion, Reddish
2017: Bagley, MPJ, Ayton
2016: Jackson, Giles, Ball, Tatum
Fox and Bam were borderline in 2017 and played up to that level and that was the best UK team in recent history.
I know some of these guys opted to go to the G League and I forget which of these guys Cal was targeting but if you're that elite recruiter, you need to close the deal on these guys.
I think UK's floor will be much higher with the transfers though. I still think you need to have one superstar OAD to have that high ceiling.
Elite freshman recruits being underrated as usual on this board. I"ll take an uproven Caleb Houstan all day over Jaden Ivy despite having only seen clips of the former play based on what the scouts have said.
Michigan should run away in the B1G.
I think purdue will def be in the mix. Wouldnt surprise me to see either win imo, id give michigan the slight edge tho.
Andni think its more of ppl need to see it. What if houston plays like similarly ranked BJ Boston? I have no clue if their games are even comprable im just saying all 5 stars arent the same. You pointed that out yourself in your prev post.
Don't disagree, though Boston was supposed to be that dude last year. And he was absolute shit. Clarke (RIP) was very highly ranked too.
Cal has made all the right changes this offseason. Got rid of dead weight on the coaching staff. He added multiple excellent shooters. Returned multiple contributors. If he adds Kofi that's an All American and elite player. The team has a ton of depth. I am a bit concerned about high end talent, but I'm looking forward to seeing how he does this year. It'll be quite telling.
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