Top 3 in each conference

[jhmossy]

That wasn't meant to come off as a jab at the ACC if it seemed that way, just the best and most recent example I could think of. Also last year, the SEC (who was what, probably 5th or 6th in RPI?) comprised 3 of the 8 teams in the Elite Eight, with no other conference having more than 1 representative. That is why I don't base my opinions on those metrics as the gospel like some of these Jonah Hill nerds do.

You just base your opinions off the results of a 6-game single elimination tournament instead

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Advanced metrics say this:
Team A: 20-0 in the Greater Southeastern Alaskan Peninsula League, whose player of the year last season was a 5'3" legally blind one-legged Eskimo. Opponent's combined record: 220-43. Opponent's opponents' combined record: 854-317

Team B: 20-0 in the ACC. Opponent's combined record: 220-43. Opponent's opponents' combined record: 854-317.

Advanced metrics say these teams are equally as good. So, based on that we should expect a great game between 2017 UNC and the Lower Talkeetna College Fightin' Seal Clubbers.

 

[Mgkcbb]

SOS is based 100% exclusively on wins and losses, period. Nothing else. 2/3 is opponent's record and 1/3 is their opponent's record.

Im almost positive thats not actually how KenPom or Sagarins SOS is calculated but Im also not 100% sure either.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

That wasn't meant to come off as a jab at the ACC if it seemed that way, just the best and most recent example I could think of. Also last year, the SEC (who was what, probably 5th or 6th in RPI?) comprised 3 of the 8 teams in the Elite Eight, with no other conference having more than 1 representative. That is why I don't base my opinions on those metrics as the gospel like some of these Jonah Hill nerds do.

The West Coast Conference was the second best conference in basketball because Gonzaga made the national championship game then?

 

[Kevin Bryan]

You just base your opinions off the results of a 6-game single elimination tournament instead

Comprised of what "advanced metrics" say are the best teams in the country....

 

[Mgkcbb]

Advanced metrics say this:
Team A: 20-0 in the Greater Southeastern Alaskan Peninsula League, whose player of the year last season was a 5'3" legally blind one-legged Eskimo. Opponent's combined record: 220-43. Opponent's opponents' combined record: 854-317

Team B: 20-0 in the ACC. Opponent's combined record: 220-43. Opponent's opponents' combined record: 854-317.

Advanced metrics say these teams are equally as good. So, based on that we should expect a great game between 2017 UNC and the Lower Talkeetna College Fightin' Seal Clubbers.

None of this is actually true its just made up gibberish.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Im almost positive thats not actually how KenPom or Sagarins SOS is calculated but Im also not 100% sure either.

I'm not either, then again I haven't ever delved that deep into it.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

None of this is actually true its just made up gibberish.

Explain.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

The West Coast Conference was the second best conference in basketball because Gonzaga made the national championship game then?

Is Gonzaga the only team in the WCC?

 

[silerbr2]

Explain.

This should be entertaining..

 

[Mgkcbb]

Explain.

Its completely made up gibberish. Youre accusing advanced metrics of rating an imaginary team as the same as UNC.

Its quite possibly the worst post Ive read in months

 

[pig1960]

None of this is actually true its just made up gibberish.

I have this weird feeling that some on this thread consider RPI an advanced metric. Which would be truly ignorant.

 

[kyjeff1]

I copy and pasted from BPI. Thats literally all I did.

You're using BPI in December, that's your first problem.
Your second problem is you're a Purdon't fan.
You're third problem is you think Purdon't is actually going to do something of note this year or anytime soon.
You're fourth problem is you haven't learned yet that Purdon't always falls flat on their face when it counts, yet you guys are here talking smack on the daily, as if you're some blue blood.
You're fifth problem is you think Purdon't would be the best team in ANY conference with the absolute slowest big man I have ever seen play the game.
And your last problem is you're a Purdon't fan that's using BPI as a barometer in December.
Some people are going to say I doubled up on your problems list, but they were so bad I had to list them twice.
Have a Merry Christmas

 

[pig1960]

You're using BPI in December, that's your first problem.
Your second problem is you're a Purdon't fan.
You're third problem is you think Purdon't is actually going to do something of note this year or anytime soon.
You're fourth problem is you haven't learned yet that Purdon't always falls flat on their face when it counts, yet you guys are here talking smack on the daily, as if you're some blue blood.
You're fifth problem is you think Purdon't would be the best team in ANY conference with the absolute slowest big man I have ever seen play the game.
And your last problem is you're a Purdon't fan that's using BPI as a barometer in December.
Some people are going to say I doubled up on your problems list, but they were so bad I had to list them twice.
Have a Merry Christmas

Wow! That was quite a lengthy post just to prove you're a dick. Shorten it up next time and just say " I'm a dick".

 

[Mgkcbb]

You're using BPI in December, that's your first problem.
Your second problem is you're a Purdon't fan.
You're third problem is you think Purdon't is actually going to do something of note this year or anytime soon.
You're fourth problem is you haven't learned yet that Purdon't always falls flat on their face when it counts, yet you guys are here talking smack on the daily, as if you're some blue blood.
You're fifth problem is you think Purdon't would be the best team in ANY conference with the absolute slowest big man I have ever seen play the game.
And your last problem is you're a Purdon't fan that's using BPI as a barometer in December.
Some people are going to say I doubled up on your problems list, but they were so bad I had to list them twice.
Have a Merry Christmas

Yup, this is the evidence. "Everything shows your team is better than my team so Ill dismiss it so I can use my own narrative."

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Its completely made up gibberish. Youre accusing advanced metrics of rating an imaginary team as the same as UNC.

Its quite possibly the worst post Ive read in months

Well of course it's made up, it's a damn example of how advanced metrics sees it. I am asking you to explain what is incorrect about it.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

I have this weird feeling that some on this thread consider RPI an advanced metric. Which would be truly ignorant.

Exactly.

 

[Mgkcbb]

Well of course it's made up, it's a damn example of how advanced metrics sees it. I am asking you to explain what is incorrect about it.

The incorrect portion is the made up part in case that wasnt clear.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

The incorrect portion is the made up part in case that wasnt clear.

You really aren't comprehending my point here?

 

[Mgkcbb]

You really aren't comprehending my point here?

Because your point doesnt make sense. KenPom rates teams on points per possession both off and def efficiency and strength of schedule.

Youre just making up an example since you cant find a real one where advanced metrics way overrate or underrate a team.

Youre asking me to explain a hypothetical??

I mean seriously, are you just bored and trolling or something?

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Because your point doesnt make sense. KenPom rates teams on points per possession both off and def efficiency and strength of schedule.

Youre just making up an example since you cant find a real one where advanced metrics way overrate or underrate a team.

Youre asking me to explain a hypothetical??

I mean seriously, are you just bored and trolling or something?

Example (noun) - a thing characteristic of its kind or illustrating a general rule.

It makes absolutely ZERO difference if my example is hypothetical or not. You are completely missing the point, obviously.

 

[Mgkcbb]

Example (noun) - a thing characteristic of its kind or illustrating a general rule.

It makes absolutely ZERO difference if my example is hypothetical or not. You are completely missing the point, obviously.

Lol wat?

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Lol wat?

Do I need to explain it in advanced metrics for you?

 

[Mgkcbb]

Bryan go find a real example. Im not going to explain something that never happened.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Is Gonzaga the only team in the WCC?

If a WCC team survived a one game single elimination tournament over 329 other teams in the country it must be because the WCC is 2nd best. Surely it has nothing to do with Gonzaga having a good team indecent of the WCC and luck of the draw in a single elimination format.......

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Bryan go find a real example. Im not going to explain something that never happened.

Whether it happened or not makes no difference. That is what I am trying to tell you. It's all good, my friend. You put more stock into advanced metrics than I do. Doesn't mean either one of us is wrong. Opinions are opinions.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

If a WCC team survived a one game single elimination tournament over 329 other teams in the country it must be because the WCC is 2nd best. Surely it has nothing to do with Gonzaga having a good team indecent of the WCC and luck of the draw in a single elimination format.......

Hail, your comprehension skills are severely lacking in this thread.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Advanced metrics say this:
Team A: 20-0 in the Greater Southeastern Alaskan Peninsula League, whose player of the year last season was a 5'3" legally blind one-legged Eskimo. Opponent's combined record: 220-43. Opponent's opponents' combined record: 854-317

Team B: 20-0 in the ACC. Opponent's combined record: 220-43. Opponent's opponents' combined record: 854-317.

Advanced metrics say these teams are equally as good. So, based on that we should expect a great game between 2017 UNC and the Lower Talkeetna College Fightin' Seal Clubbers.

How about the opponents opponents opponents combined records etc etc because every game gets built into overall efficiency and SOS ratings. Eventually somewhere down the line (and usually not far down the line at all) there is a significant drop in SOS so simply comparing records doesn’t hold weight.

It’s really not a difficult concept.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Hail, your comprehension skills are severely lacking in this thread.

Your points just suck, regardless of my level of comprehension.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

How about the opponents opponents opponents combined records etc etc because every game gets built into overall efficiency and SOS ratings. Eventually somewhere down the line (and usually not far down the line at all) there is a significant drop in SOS so simply comparing records doesn’t hold weight.

It’s really not a difficult concept.

You are nearly flat-lining at this point. I am worried about you.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Your points just suck, regardless of my level of comprehension.

Well, you were actually agreeing with my points, but you didn't comprehend them correctly.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

If a WCC team survived a one game single elimination tournament over 329 other teams in the country it must be because the WCC is 2nd best. Surely it has nothing to do with Gonzaga having a good team indecent of the WCC and luck of the draw in a single elimination format.......

For real, bro. Go back and read what you are responding to. Did I say the ACC was the best conference because UNC won the tournament? No. I said the ACC was obviously overrated as a whole because the other 8 teams that made the dance got bounced before the first weekend was over.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

For real, bro. Go back and read what you are responding to. Did I say the ACC was the best conference because UNC won the tournament? No. I said the ACC was obviously overrated as a whole because the other 8 teams that made the dance got bounced before the first weekend was over.

You are struggling to comprehend that a small percentage of the conference winning a couple games in a single elimination tournament doesn’t make the conference overall better.

Wofford isn’t better than North Carolina because of one game. Teams getting bounced from one game in the tournament does not negate an entire body of work.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

You are nearly flat-lining at this point. I am worried about you.

I figured you understood how math worked but apparently not. Keep looking silly, bub.

 

[pig1960]

Because your point doesnt make sense. KenPom rates teams on points per possession both off and def efficiency and strength of schedule.

Youre just making up an example since you cant find a real one where advanced metrics way overrate or underrate a team.

Youre asking me to explain a hypothetical??

I mean seriously, are you just bored and trolling or something?

For those parsing Kpom - please go check out his #'s and point out the major over or under ratings. Duke is #1 in Oe and UVA is #1 in De. MSU is #2 in De.

I don't have space to point out the nonsensical swings of the eye test. The one norm in the eye test is name teams are consistently over ranked...resulting in being consistently over seeded in the dance.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

You are struggling to comprehend that a small percentage of the conference winning a couple games in a single elimination tournament doesn’t make the conference overall better.

Wofford isn’t better than North Carolina because of one game. Teams getting bounced from one game in the tournament does not negate an entire body of work.

Come on, dude. I never said freakin' Wofford is a better team than UNC (although obviously they were last night). However, when half your conference gets bounced from a single-elimination tourney in the 1st weekend it is indicative that maybe they were overrated. I don't see why that seems so far-fetched to some people. You talk about the "entire body of work". Well, 65% or so of that body of work for the entire season is against the conference in question.....

 

[duckboy33]

AAC:
Wichita State
Cincy
SMU

ACC:
Duke
Miami FL
Virginia

Big 12:
Kansas
TCU
Oklahoma

Big East
Villanova
Xavier
Seton Hall

Big Ten:
Michigan State
Purdue
Minnesota

MWC:
UNLV
Nevada
Boise State

PAC 12:
Arizona
Arizona State
Oregon

SEC:
Kentucky
Arkansas
Texas A&M

 

[GE Nole]

I'm not totally against analytics/metrics, they have their place when it comes to certain things like when trying to be as fair as possible when determining why team A deserves a dance bid over team B, etc. But as a whole, nope... I will go with what I see and what actually happens in reality. Besides, when you base opinions on metrics that have been established based on playing a quarter of the season, they are going to be skewed. I don't know the metrics of the ACC as a whole last year (I assume they were the #1 ranked conference in basketball by all metrics), but how did those metrics play out in the tournament? Something like 8 of 9 ACC teams didn't make it past the first weekend? They finished 11-8 as a conference with 6 of those wins belonging to UNC.

Basing opinions off the results of a 1 and done tourney isn't really ideal. March is fun and it's never going away, but it's not exactly the most accurate way of determining the best teams.

Also, as an aside, I think the Big 12 was the best conference according to the metrics.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Your predictions seem heavily influenced by what you saw in the Bahamas over thanksgiving.

Especially considering we already beat Maryland at Maryland.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Basing opinions off the results of a 1 and done tourney isn't really ideal. March is fun and it's never going away, but it's not exactly the most accurate way of determining the best teams.

Also, as an aside, I think the Big 12 was the best conference according to the metrics.

Again, merely an example, that's certainly not the only thing I base my own opinions of teams on. Not even close. It's simply one of the only "real" things we can base teams on. Teams from all conferences actually playing each other on the court. The results are definitive, not determined by metrics.