This was called a foul on TyTy

[IUfanBorden]

I though you said, "we can just agree to disagree" but here you are still being all fired up about it. 😆

We can....And I'm not that fired up---But ignorance pisses me off. Don't call me out, question my integrity, over a call that is a ****ing easy call....Dude runs across the floor...steps into the offensive players path, and there is contact----that is 100% a foul on the defense----every single time.

Watch the video with the info I gave you...

Legal guarding position(on a dribbler)---You must have both feet on the ground, and be FACING the dribbler.. TyTy never did this.

Two---his last two/three steps led him into a firect path of the VU guards movement to the basket...Which caused there to be contact.---Watch the VU guards left foot---in a direct path to the basket...Watch TyTy's left foot---it clearly steps INTO his path. Rather VU guard contacted TyTy first or not, is irrelevant. Its irrelevant b/c of the illegal positioning of TyTy..

Its not a hard call at all...

 

[Kevin Bryan]

That picture shows him arm on the back. May want to get that vision checked

You have X-ray vision? Go watch the video again, the arm clearly never contacts his back.

 

[I am stupid]

I want to know what part of Tyty's arm is touching his back. You can see his shoulder is above Pippens, his elbow isn't touching him, and he has his hand on his own leg.

I'm not saying it wasn't a foul on tyty, but no where in that picture is he touching his back.

 

[rockycard]

That is part of the FT disparity I mentioned. Nice reading skillz, rock.

I’m a selective reader 😀

 

[rockycard]

^^^^^^Soooooooo stupid.

Finally we agree on something….

You do realize that the arrows are pointing at your name don’t you?

 

[JC for 3]

Finally we agree on something….

You do realize that the arrows are pointing at your name don’t you?

In message board terms, those are in reference to the above post, BLOCKHEAD.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Its a foul on TyTy---people see the discard, push----they pay no intention to the initial contact initiated by TyTy, whp was not in a legal guarding position....

yea it was obviously a foul on TyTy prior to the push.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

yea it was obviously a foul on TyTy prior to the push.

Spoken like a true defense lawyer...

 

[IUfanBorden]

I want to know what part of Tyty's arm is touching his back. You can see his shoulder is above Pippens, his elbow isn't touching him, and he has his hand on his own leg.

I'm not saying it wasn't a foul on tyty, but no where in that picture is he touching his back.

I don't if he was(touching) him or not....What I do know is his(TyTy) path created the contact. It doesn't matter who hit who first----it just matters there was contact. And there was contact BEFORZE the shove----and that is a foul on the defense. Not so sure why this is so hard for some(not you), to understand.

TyTy's illegal defensive position, which caused contact, is why its a foul in him. LIke I said, it would be like me running a red light, and you hitting me. You hit me---your fault, then---right? Well, no. Me running the red light creatd the collision....

Same here----TyTy's "running the red light", created the collision...

Pretty simple, really.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Spoken like a true defense lawyer...

Ha, I’m no defense lawyer. I’m an offensive lawyer.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Ha, I’m no defense lawyer. I’m an offensive lawyer.

Spoken like a true offensive lawyer. 😆

 

[Random UK Fan]

. Get fuc’t UK fans.

 

[TechFan88]

Really?

sure, I'll define it...

Legal guarding position----When defending the dribble, has to have both feet on the floor, AND facing the opponent...

Freedom of movement----See above^^^^^. But it also pertains to a player who is holding the ball. YOu have to give them room to make a basketball play.

So when is the push off an offense foul? When they run in RB? How far can the offensive player extend the arm?

 

[kyjeff1]

Someone on here told me this was a foul too, I can't recall who that was… hmmmm

uconn flop — Postimages

postimg.cc

 

[IUfanBorden]

So when is the push off an offense foul? When they run in RB? How far can the offensive player extend the arm?

Just a guess here---but gonna go out on a limb and say, when a player is in a legal, guarding position? Remember, there are two different scenario's here, and other examples.....Like the difference between a dribbler/non-dribbler. Or, say dribbler is moving forward, defense is right beside him, no contact, doesn't impede his forward movement to the basket, and dribbler simply gives a forearm to the chest----Offensive foul. Or if non-dribbler pushes off to gain space, as long as the defense hasn't violted the cylinder rule. Or if you have established legal guarding position on a dribbler, there is contact, and offensive player extends/pushes off...

There are plenty of examples....The TyTy play is not one of them.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Someone on here told me this was a foul too, I can't recall who that was… hmmmm

uconn flop — Postimages

postimg.cc

Probably same guy who saw the right arm extend, give a slight push to his back?

Am I close?

 

[kyjeff1]

Probably same guy who saw the right arm extend, give a slight push to his back?

Am I close?

Anybody that calls that a foul, should never ever officiate a game… ever. That was an obvious flop and not only that, you can clearly tell he made it look like Miller grabbed his hand.

 

[TechFan88]

Just a guess here---but gonna go out on a limb and say, when a player is in a legal, guarding position? Remember, there are two different scenario's here, and other examples.....Like the difference between a dribbler/non-dribbler. Or, say dribbler is moving forward, defense is right beside him, no contact, doesn't impede his forward movement to the basket, and dribbler simply gives a forearm to the chest----Offensive foul. Or if non-dribbler pushes off to gain space, as long as the defense hasn't violted the cylinder rule. Or if you have established legal guarding position on a dribbler, there is contact, and offensive player extends/pushes off...

There are plenty of examples....The TyTy play is not one of them.

If you are running with the dribbler beside him are you ever in a legal guarding position according to the definition you gave? If one foot comes off the floor wouldn't you no longer be in legal guarding position?

Also at one point do you violate the cylinder rule? How close can you get? People are always accusing us of violating the cylinder on defense at TTU but I see the opposing team players creating space by giving a forearm to the chest or extending the arm fully from the body to create space.

This isn't about TyTy play I'm just picking your brain. I'm trying to educate myself and not hate refs as much.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Anybody that calls that a foul, should never ever officiate a game… ever. That was an obvious flop and not only that, you can clearly tell he made it look like Miller grabbed his hand.

Just b/c someone flops, doesn't mean they were not fouled. Yeah, he flopped....But he was clearly PUSHED....Its obvious he was. Right hand, to the back. And the dead give away is UK player quickly putting his hands up....Players do that when they know their ass has been caught.

WIth that being said, if that was IU, I would have been furious, and pissed. It was ticky-tack. Not gonna deny that. BUT, he was pushed.

I tell ya, there are days I wish I never told a soul I officiate...Its endless. Officials have bad days....make badd calls....Stink the place up...I know--I've have many of games where shit just went sideways. But I feel comfortbale in saying that 95+ percent of the time, what I call,. or what another offical calls is right. Unfortunately we are in a business where anything less than 100% is unacceptable...

But I still love it.

 

[kyjeff1]

Just b/c someone flops, doesn't mean they were not fouled. Yeah, he flopped....But he was clearly PUSHED....Its obvious he was. Right hand, to the back. And the dead give away is UK player quickly putting his hands up....Players do that when they know their ass has been caught.

WIth that being said, if that was IU, I would have been furious, and pissed. It was ticky-tack. Not gonna deny that. BUT, he was pushed.

I tell ya, there are days I wish I never told a soul I officiate...Its endless. Officials have bad days....make badd calls....Stink the place up...I know--I've have many of games where shit just went sideways. But I feel comfortbale in saying that 95+ percent of the time, what I call,. or what another offical calls is right. Unfortunately we are in a business where anything less than 100% is unacceptable...

But I still love it.

😂😂😂😂 @ he was pushed. He fell like he was shot out of a cannon.

Darius Miller was pretty strong in 2011, but he wasn't Mr. Universe strong.

That should never, ever be a foul and that was in a final 4 game. That was Higgins too, surprise, surprise.

I mean, you should never reward a player for acting like that.

If you fall for that kind of bad acting, just get out if the business. There is more contact then that during literally every play.

 

[UL_1986]

Someone on here told me this was a foul too, I can't recall who that was… hmmmm

uconn flop — Postimages

postimg.cc

Flagrant II

 

[IUfanBorden]

If you are running with the dribbler beside him are you ever in a legal guarding position according to the definition you gave? If one foot comes off the floor wouldn't you no longer be in legal guarding position?

Also at one point do you violate the cylinder rule? How close can you get? People are always accusing us of violating the cylinder on defense at TTU but I see the opposing team players creating space by giving a forearm to the chest or extending the arm fully from the body to create space.

This isn't about TyTy play I'm just picking your brain. I'm trying to educate myself and not hate refs as much.

Question 1: If you are running with the dribbler, beside him, are you ever in a legal guarding position?

Answer: No

Question # 2: If one foot comes off the floor, wouldn't you no longer be in a legal guarding position?

Answer: Yes, you would be. Once you have maintained/established a legal guarding position, you are allowed to move. Which rewuires you to move/raise your foot/feet. You can move side to side, or backwards, and ,maintain a legal guarding position.

Cylinder rule: You must give the offense(non ball handler/dribbler) room, i.e. a step, to make a basketball move. If you "get into " the offensive player, with contact, OR do not give him room to make a basketball play, and he moves, and there is contact, its a defensive foul, via the cylinder rule..

With the cylinder rule the issue I have is what you said----offense extending arm/forearm to the chest. I don't like that. And IMO, if you feel the cylinder rule hasn't been violated, that should be an offensive foul. TBH, I don't like the rule, but think the intent is needed. Just think the rule needs tweaked.

Hope that helps

 

[kyjeff1]

Flagrant II

I know right.

If that is the definition of a foul and they ever started calling that, I would stop watching. That would do it for me.

 

[UL_1986]

I know right.

If that is the definition of a foul and they ever started calling that, I would stop watching. That would do it for me.

I’m still butthurt over our game with UNC (even though I know we weren’t making the tourney) I still can’t believe those calls towards the end, but I also can.

 

[IUfanBorden]

😂😂😂😂 @ he was pushed. He fell like he was shot out of a cannon.

Darius Miller was pretty strong in 2011, but he wasn't Mr. Universe strong.

That should never, ever be a foul and that was in a final 4 game. That was Higgins too, surprise, surprise.

I mean, you should never reward a player for acting like that.

If you fall for that kind of bad acting, just get out if the business. There is more contact then that during literally every play.

So you don't think Miller pushed him?

You guys need to get Higgins out of your heads.....MOF, any official. I;ve never seen a fan base so traumatized by officials...

"fall for that type of bad acting, just get out of the business..."? SO basically, all 2,000+ officials should quit? Eyes will fool you.....SOme of you act as if officials are robots, or something----and not human beings just like everyone else.

FTR, Higgins, who I do not like, is one of the most respected, well liked officials in CBB. He's an arrogant prick, a smart ass, on the floor. Off the floor, he's just like you and I...

I have said this a million times---I have the connections. Whenever you feel you wanna give officiating a shot, give me a call...

812 270 2754.....And I ain't scared to give you UK folk my #----after all, I don't own my own business...

 

[kyjeff1]

I’m still butthurt over our game with UNC (even though I know we weren’t making the tourney) I still can’t believe those calls towards the end, but I also can.

You guys got jobbed and it wasn't just 1 call either. That was awful officiating.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Doesn’t look good but I can see what Borden’s saying.

TyTy going for the Primetime Emmy made it look a lot worse.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Flagrant II

Meh, probably just an F1....

 

[UL_1986]

You guys got jobbed and it wasn't just 1 call either. That was awful officiating.

Probably 4 calls tbh. Detrimental ones at that.

 

[kyjeff1]

So you don't think Miller pushed him?

You guys need to get Higgins out of your heads.....MOF, any official. I;ve never seen a fan base so traumatized by officials...

"fall for that type of bad acting, just get out of the business..."? SO basically, all 2,000+ officials should quit? Eyes will fool you.....SOme of you act as if officials are robots, or something----and not human beings just like everyone else.

FTR, Higgins, who I do not like, is one of the most respected, well liked officials in CBB. He's an arrogant prick, a smart ass, on the floor. Off the floor, he's just like you and I...

I have said this a million times---I have the connections. Whenever you feel you wanna give officiating a shot, give me a call...

812 270 2754.....And I ain't scared to give you UK folk my #----after all, I don't own my own business...

LOL, officials are not in my head, but if you watched that 2011 game and the 2017 uNC game and come away thinking that mother fvcker isn't deliberately screwing UK over, you're blind.

Officials can literally control any game they want and that’s exactly what that bastard does.

I never said all 2000 officials should quit, it was only one dumbass that made that call.

I never said officials need to be perfect, but most are awful at telling the difference between a flop and a true foul. I applaud the flop warnings, but it should be getting called more often.

You said yourself that the guy is an arrogant prick, that certainly doesn’t surprise me one bit and it shouldn’t surprise you that he might have a hard on for Cal. If he does (he does), it would not be hard for him to send a message.

I get it, your first instict is to defend officials, but I just don't see how you can defend the calls Higgins made in those 2 games and the Darius Miller foul I posted earlier, we need to use common sense, that’s just not a foul.

 

[kyjeff1]

Doesn’t look good but I can see what Borden’s saying.

TyTy going for the Primetime Emmy made it look a lot worse.

Yeah, I'm definitely not going to argue the Tyty call, he rushed to get in front of the dribbler. Is what it is.

 

[IUfanBorden]

You guys got jobbed and it wasn't just 1 call either. That was awful officiating.

Were any of the 15 fouls vs UBC awful? FR disparity was 20-15---most came when UL had to foul. Fouls were 21-14(UL)....SOme of those also came when UL had to foul, and at least a few were legit---right?

The call were UL coached was "T'd" up, was 110% awful...No idea what he thought he saw---but yikes.

Officials are easy to blame when you LOSE----but even easier to defend when you WIN. Its a no win situation for officials----One fan base is gonna love ya, the other is gonna try an ruin your business...

Bad calls, bad officiacted games are always going to happen. Officials today haven't invented the wheel with bad calls, or poorly officiated games. Its gone on since the first time officials were used. ANd TBH, officiating today, compared to 10, 20 or 30 years ago, is just as good, if not better, and its certainly not worse....Here the thing....Back in 80's/90s, the technology wasn't there. You didn't get to see 400 different replays, via 400 different angles, via super slow motion, from every single angle in the arena. SO now, a bad call/calls that went unoticed 20 years ago, is now a lot more visible. And to make it even worse---its talked about over and over, and over and over, and over----Shown 300, 000 times via ESPN, FB, Twitter, and of course, on here.

I get it...I'm a fan as well. But what I have that you don't, is the experience of calling these games. I know what the speed of the game is like...the pace....the intensity....the constant movement....the crazy athletic ability these kids have....Until you step on the floor with that, and then have to make a call in a split second, you have no idea how tough of a job it actually is.

 

[kyjeff1]

Probably 4 calls tbh. Detrimental ones at that.

Your guy took a forearm to the face and got called for the foul.

I mean, what are these officials even looking at?

 

[coryfly]

 

[kyjeff1]

Were any of the 15 fouls vs UBC awful? FR disparity was 20-15---most came when UL had to foul. Fouls were 21-14(UL)....SOme of those also came when UL had to foul, and at least a few were legit---right?

The call were UL coached was "T'd" up, was 110% awful...No idea what he thought he saw---but yikes.

Officials are easy to blame when you LOSE----but even easier to defend when you WIN. Its a no win situation for officials----One fan base is gonna love ya, the other is gonna try an ruin your business...

Bad calls, bad officiacted games are always going to happen. Officials today haven't invented the wheel with bad calls, or poorly officiated games. Its gone on since the first time officials were used. ANd TBH, officiating today, compared to 10, 20 or 30 years ago, is just as good, if not better, and its certainly not worse....Here the thing....Back in 80's/90s, the technology wasn't there. You didn't get to see 400 different replays, via 400 different angles, via super slow motion, from every single angle in the arena. SO now, a bad call/calls that went unoticed 20 years ago, is now a lot more visible. And to make it even worse---its talked about over and over, and over and over, and over----Shown 300, 000 times via ESPN, FB, Twitter, and of course, on here.

I get it...I'm a fan as well. But what I have that you don't, is the experience of calling these games. I know what the speed of the game is like...the pace....the intensity....the constant movement....the crazy athletic ability these kids have....Until you step on the floor with that, and then have to make a call in a split second, you have no idea how tough of a job it actually is.

In a close game, those officials are as critical to every play as the point guard on each team.

Officials have the most power out of everyone out on the court. Every time they blow the whistle, the game is affected.

I saw 2 absolutely horrible calls in that UofL/uNC game and they basically cost UofL the game.

You brought up the amount of fouls for both teams, why? That has nothing to do with it, both teams play different styles, so that's really what dictates the amount of fouls called. Some teams try to draw fouls, some avoid contact.

Even if UL only had those fouls called on them all game long, they were still bad calls.

 

[IUfanBorden]

LOL, officials are not in my head, but if you watched that 2011 game and the 2017 uNC game and come away thinking that mother fvcker isn't deliberately screwing UK over, you're blind.

Officials can literally control any game they want and that’s exactly what that bastard does.

I never said all 2000 officials should quit, it was only one dumbass that made that call.

I never said officials need to be perfect, but most are awful at telling the difference between a flop and a true foul. I applaud the flop warnings, but it should be getting called more often.

You said yourself that the guy is an arrogant prick, that certainly doesn’t surprise me one bit and it shouldn’t surprise you that he might have a hard on for Cal. If he does (he does), it would not be hard for him to send a message.

I get it, your first instict is to defend officials, but I just don't see how you can defend the calls Higgins made in those 2 games and the Darius Miller foul I posted earlier, we need to use common sense, that’s just not a foul.

I have never once defended officials....I give explanations. SOmetimes those explanations , you or others don't like, and to you its defending the officials. Weird when I agree with something, nothing is said....

No you never said all 2,000 officials should quit----but then again, you did----You said if you can be fooled by that, then you should quit....Well, I assure you, Higgins isn't the only official to ever be "fooled". There's not one guy wearing a whistle who hasn't made a mistake, or been fooled. Not one.

Deliberately screwing a team is almost impossible. The game/action happens to fast. You don't have time to process such a thought...Kid is bearing down, full speed, defender is trying to get back, theres a collision, and in a matter of a second or less, you have to decide...

1. Was the defender in a legal guarding position
2. Did he slide under
3. Did the offense lower his shoulder, extend his arm
4. Was is nust incidental basketball contact
5. Did the defender beat him to the spot..
6. Was he in or outside of the arc....
7. Was the offensive player out of control....was he making a basketball move/play
8. Was he in the act of shooting...

You have to decipher all the above in a matter of a second or two....You really think as an official you have time to go, "Yep, I'm gonna **** Cal on this one"?

He is a prick....he is arrogant. But that doesn't mean he's a cheater. Hell I can be a prick----arrogant, etc, etc...But I have never sacrificed my integrity b/c I may , or may not like a coach. Now, I cannot speak for JOhn, but I do know him....sort of. I'd be shocked if the dude ever slighted a team/coach. It just seems like that, b/c well, he's worked some very high profile games that included UK, and had some calls go against you...

$100 bucks says if that game was Duke/UNC, or UConn/BUtler, you wouldn't have jack shit to say.

 

[coryfly]

In a close game, those officials are as critical to every play as the point guard on each team.

Officials have the most power out of everyone out on the court. Every time they blow the whistle, the game is affected.

I saw 2 absolutely horrible calls in that UofL/uNC game and they basically cost UofL the game.

You brought up the amount of fouls for both teams, why? That has nothing to do with it, both teams play different styles, so that's really what dictates the amount of fouls called. Some teams try to draw fouls, some avoid contact.

Even if UL only had those fouls called on them all game long, they were still bad calls.

But you ignore all the fouls that weren't called on them throughout the game until they got to OT. The last foul on Bacot was a bad call. Everyone admits that. But even if that call is made percentages say UNC still wins anyway.

 

[coryfly]

Every official misses calls. Every team thinks they get f'ed. Common sense tells you that fans don't have an objective eye when it comes to fouls.

 

[IUfanBorden]

In a close game, those officials are as critical to every play as the point guard on each team.

Officials have the most power out of everyone out on the court. Every time they blow the whistle, the game is affected.

I saw 2 absolutely horrible calls in that UofL/uNC game and they basically cost UofL the game.

Well I mean, officials do have the most power---after all----they are the officials....

In a close game, a bad call is no more damaging than a turnover, missed FT, missed lay-up, missed shots, missed assignment, giving up an offensive rebound, that leads to a bucket.

I've told players, and coaches----when you play the perfect game, you can then expect me to call the perfect game.

If you are down 2, have the ball with 10 seconds left, get fouled, miss two FT's...then the other team goes down, ref makes a horrendous block call, and they hit 2 FT's tying the game with 2 seconds left, sending the game to OT, where you eventually lose----What wasmore damaging? Missing two freebies that puts you up 4, with 1o seconds left, or the bad call?

 

[coryfly]

Some fans would rather blame someone else than their own team. Especially fans who think their team is so superior and should never lose. Some people are just that way.