The "Indiana University Rebuild" Thread

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by KYtotheCore, Nov 21, 2018.

  1. pig1960

    pig1960 Well-Known Member
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    Sure...just convenient that depending on your view injuries are a reason or an excuse. As you pointed out you feel Purdue fans bring up Hummel’s injuries as an excuse for Purdue failing to reach a FF. Many IU fans feel that is an excuse. What’s your point of view on that issue? More to the point if you feel it is a valid reason how does that impact your view on Painter? e,.g Purdue makes FF makes Painter a better coach. Either way it points out how ludicrous it is to base a coaches value on FF appearances.
     
  2. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    I've always said the injuries to Hummell, etc, etc...cost painter a legit shot at a FF. Now, that doesn't explain the other 12 years, or what not. Painters a fine coach. Needs to recruit better. But all in all, he's solid coach. BUT...........he needs to eventually get past a SW16----Dont you agree?

    BTW----Set our injuries aside this season(especially Hunter) and I thin we are seeing a totally different team. Time will tell I guess.
     
  3. pig1960

    pig1960 Well-Known Member
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    I’d like to see it. Other than a post Hummel drop Painter has a very good record. And using injuries as a reason rather than an excuse losing Haas could arguably have cost Purdue a Great 8 and possibly a FF. Villanova was legit though. Losing Haas really changed the dynamic of that team. No excuse though / they lost.
     
  4. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Man you are diggin in here. I get it. I really do. You use it(injuries) as "A" reason, then you have to accept IU's early struggles being due to injuries. So, yeah, I get it.

    I'll say this----Injuries have certainly hampered IU's early season progress. Getting close to being healthy. So we shall see.
     
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  5. pig1960

    pig1960 Well-Known Member
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    Yes I guess we will.
     
  6. jace46555

    jace46555 Well-Known Member
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    ? He didn't shame the university...he shamed himself.
     
  7. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    47 Random UK Fan, Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  8. Da_Bull

    Da_Bull Well-Known Member
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  9. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    Program. I really enjoyed watching the IU/UK series of the past. I want the old IU to come back.
     
  10. klize17

    klize17 Well-Known Member
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    I think we will have a much better idea after next year. Even with losing Juwan and Romeo leaving this program has to have a better season. Which I think can happen
     
  11. Da_Bull

    Da_Bull Well-Known Member
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    Still improving. Recruiting pretty well so far, would have been nice to get Brooks. Phinisee is good to see how well he’s played being a 100ish type recruit. Hope to see Hunter back next year, he was supposed to have had an impact this year.
     
  12. Da_Bull

    Da_Bull Well-Known Member
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    As bad as losing 12 of 13 looks he still gets credit for regaining control of the locker room and playing well at end of the year, beating MSU twice . Still disappointing at times, last years BTT against Rutgers after they had looked to be playing pretty well at end of the year and this years OSU game. Archie’s Young he’s still learning too but much better than watching Creans teams.
     
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  13. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    I was watching a little of the game tonight, and they look good, even though Romeo is done. I keep feeling they’re just on the precipice of making that run that the spark starts to show again for the program’s future.
     
  14. pig1960

    pig1960 Well-Known Member
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    I think they plateaued around 1997 or so. But I’m overly critical. In the last decade I’ve enjoyed the following ...The Movement....We’re Back...It’s Indiana. To be fair they are competing against Purdue, MSU, Wisky and UM so it’s tough to get traction.
     
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  15. boilerzz

    boilerzz Well-Known Member
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    I think the verdict is very much out on whether Archie can resurrect the program. There is no doubt the IU brand still matters in the state. But Crean had recruiting success early and it didn't translate into consistent team success. Archie has likewise had some recruiting success but it certainly hasn't translated either.

    I think even with the injuries, Archie's team underperformed this year and IU fans have a right to be a little disgruntled.
     
    55 boilerzz, Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  16. Da_Bull

    Da_Bull Well-Known Member
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    Certainly better than the 10 wins Crean’s 2nd year.
     
  17. boilerzz

    boilerzz Well-Known Member
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    Archie inherited a much better team.
     
  18. Da_Bull

    Da_Bull Well-Known Member
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    Yes but he should have won more than 10 in his 2nd and 12 in his 3rd. 3 years in and you win 12 games?
     
  19. boilerzz

    boilerzz Well-Known Member
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    No doubt. That team had some talent. Jones and Watford were good building blocks. If I recall correctly though, Jordan Hulls' defense that early in his career made Jesus Bohannon look like Aaron Craft.
     
  20. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    As did Painter in year one----he won 9 games. Since IU has became healthy, they are 5-1. They were 12-2 before injuries took over.

    Still waaaaaay to early. I'm not happy. But I am also understanding. A lot of shit out of his control happened. Look, if it were your guy, you'd be on this side, fighting too. If IU struggles this bad next year, then a revisit is needed.
     
  21. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    When IU only won 10 games in Creans 3rd season, I believe we all knew what was coming. Bad hire from Day One.
     
  22. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Meh, c'mon now Boiler. Even with the injuries? This team was 12-2, ranked 20th, before the rash of injuries took over. Finally get healthy at the end, win 4 straight. As this team got healthier, they became better. Lost to you guys on a tip in at the buzzer. A hip chuk three by OSU....Lost in OT @ Iowa.
    I don't think the verdict is anywhere near out. I mean he hasn't even had a full recruiting class. Two years isn't long enough.
     
  23. boilerzz

    boilerzz Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, I meant jury is out, not verdict.

    As for the start of the season, you started 12-2 but your three Big Ten wins were a 2 point home win over NW, a 2 point road win at PSU when they couldn't beat anyone (started 0-10 in the Big Ten), and an 8 point home win over Illinois (which started 1-7 in the Big Ten). The Marquette win was phenomonal and the Louisville win was nice but little else was impressive about that 12-2 start.
     
  24. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    No one said it was an earth shattering 12-2 start. But they were playing well. And if not for a missed tip, IU is 13-1 with lone loss being Duke. At the time IU beat PSU and NW, neither was projected to be as bad as they were. MOF, those wins were Top 50 wins for quite some time.

    Edit: Yes I know what the "verdict is out"means. I misread. My apologies.
     
  25. JohnHoosierr

    JohnHoosierr Well-Known Member
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    Iu still recruits at a high level no matter who is in charge. For whatever reason they continue to make terrible hire after terrible hire. If they ever hire a decent coach they'll be annually be competing for the b1g title. Not sure they'll ever be a duke or Kansas level. Knight was a one of a kind coach. All the top programs also seem to heavily cheat, and i don't see iu nor any other b1g program going that route so that factors in as well.
     
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  26. boilerzz

    boilerzz Well-Known Member
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  27. sgrooms

    sgrooms Well-Known Member
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    Clearly Indiana is the best team.
     
  28. bkingUK

    bkingUK Well-Known Member
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    I remember under Mike Davis that I wanted IU to be good again. It was almost nostalgic. We have a good 7-8 to let IU flounder in mediocrity before I get back to that point. Just do you, IU.
     
  29. SIhoosier26

    SIhoosier26 Well-Known Member
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    One of the better, more level headed posts I've seen from you. Good post, although I don't think every top program cheats some do for sure. One thing for certain, IU doesn't have to cheat to be way better than they've been the last 3 years.
     
  30. JohnHoosierr

    JohnHoosierr Well-Known Member
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    By top i really just meant the bluebloods. Kansas and North Carolina have already been caught. I have no doubt duke and Kentucky do as well.
     
  31. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  32. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    I was just noticing the back and forth in the “Best Teams ‘10, etc” thread between @MrBaracus, @schoonerwest, et al. and @IUfanBorden about past teams. I’m glad to see that IU was headed for the tourney. I think they belong there. It looks like Miller is on a positive trajectory.

    Beyond the debating of past teams, what do you all think of the rebuilding process there now? Could you ever see IU becoming competitive again similar to KU’s level?
     
    72 Random UK Fan, Mar 22, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  33. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    Until Indiana becomes consistently good again I’ll just continue to look at them as I have for the last 25 years. An average program with a lot of potential.

    They definitely could become as competitive as KU but they most likely won’t. Really only Duke has been as consistent as Kansas has been for the last 30 years. North Carolina and Kentucky as well but they had a few more down years. But I absolutely think Indiana has the potential to be as good as them. Until then though they’ll just be on the same level as Tennessee or Kansas State and programs like that.

    I only gave Borden shit because he thought a 27-9 #4 seed team was worth mentioning in a thread that was about the GOAT’s who missed the Final Four.
     
  34. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    I must have misread the thread...I thought it said, "best teams not to make a FF....I didn't realize it meant GOAT teams, not to reach a FF. My apologies.
     
  35. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Cannot argue any of this. The potential IS there. Always has been. Indiana's just made terrible, knee-jerk hires. Sampson , as a coach, was a terrific hire. BUT....well, we all know that story. Its a shame too. Dude can coach. I firmly believe had he been able to keep shit clean, he'd probably have at worse a FF or two, by now. Maybe a title. He is that good. IU set themselves up for this. Firing of Knight, to the hiring of Mike Davis. Look, I love Davis. He just wasn't ready. I've always said the worst/best thing to happen, was IU playing for the title in 2002. It handcuffed Indiana. One thing that is haunting though----IU could've have Belien. Opted for Sampson. Man, oh, man. After, that---Meh. Crean was a panic hire. But to be fair, no one wanted the IU job. It wasn't that attractive...Program a mess...probation, sanctions, etc, etc...So I applaud Crean for setting a decent foundation.]
    Now----Well, its time for Miller to produce. Year 4. A very good core returning,plus adding a 5* guard in Lander. This is HIS team now. Time to win.
     
  36. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    You certainly didn’t understand the point of the thread by including a 27-9 team in there.
     
  37. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    I guess. Weird, though. You are "up in arms" about a 27-9 team.....but have no issues with me including a 29-7, team? Okie, doke. BTW, Sporting news list 2017-18 Duke as one of Top 36 teams not to WIN A TITLE. That team was 29-8. One game better than 2012 Indiana. You simply get stuck on numbers. Its ok. Lot of folks do.
     
  38. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    I’m not up in arms. I’m just stating facts.

    Let’s do something like this. I’m picking random tournaments off of wiki and random good teams that never get talked about around here. None of them made the Final Four. Do you think that Indiana team better than any of these teams?

    1995 Wake Forest
    2003 Kentucky
    2004 St. Joseph’s
    2006 Connecticut
    2015 Arizona
    2017 Kansas
     
  39. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Well, lets see:

    1995 Wake was a 3-seed. 26-6. 2012 Indiana was a 4 seed....27-9. Wake had a soph in Tim Duncan, and a senior Randolph Childress. IU had two Top 5 picks in Zeller and Oladipo. I mean, it ain't inconceivable is it?

    2003 UK---No. That team didn't go to a FF for two reasons: Wade and Bogans being hurt. Very, very good team.
    2004 St, Joe---Good team with West and Nelson. I don't think its a stretch at all to think 2012 Indiana was better---or as good. They played a meh schedule. But make no mistake, they were good.

    2006 Uconn--No. Very good team that simply lost to an inferior team. That happens.

    2015--Arizona....Meh, I dunno. They were a 2-seed. Lost to 1 seed Wisconsin. Grat player is Holis-Jefferson. Ashley was a baller as well. But nothing screams, they were that much better.

    2017 Kansas--- Well, I mean I think Indiana's 2012 team was better than the 2016/17 Indiana team that beat that Kansas team, soooo........


    Look, we can agree to disagree. I think the 2012 IU team is/was an underrated team. I think they got shafted with their seed, and the region they were sent too. Its not the end of the world, brother.
     
  40. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    The answer is no. 2012 Indiana was not as good as any of those teams. And that Wake Forest team was a 1 seed.

    Periodically I’ll pick random teams from random years and see if you think 2012 Indiana was better than them. I wasn’t joking when I said they weren’t a top 100 team on this list since 1985 (the more I think about it the more I realize we could probably stretch it out to top 250) and are a borderline top 100 team this decade alone.

    And remember, I don’t get upset on here. I’m here for the fun and the discussion of dumb topics. This certainly falls into the category of dumb topics.
     
    80 schoonerwest, Mar 22, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020

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