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Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by Noahtogo24, Jan 12, 2020.
K has won 3 championships since 2000
But are there? There are only two teams ranked ahead of Duke, and when you look at who they've actually played... well, per KenPom Gonzaga has the 255th most difficult SOS while Baylor has the 202nd most difficult SOS. As DukeDevilz pointed out, Duke is #3 in NET, #1 in KenPom, #1 in BPI, #1 in Sagarin, and #1 in KPI. So Mark Few and Scott Drew are better because they've won the same number of games against WAY inferior competition, and their teams are largely lower ranked in every objective poll?
Keep in mind, K wasn't even in the original post, and nobody but Duke fans seem to think he should be in the running, despite all of this. So if I am taking a side between A) K should be a strong candidate for COY and B) K shouldn't be in consideration for COY... well, I'm going with option A.
BTW... Brandon has done well locking me up for the most part, and MAN Red has struggled with his SG. That's why I was a bit reluctant there, and you know it... I'm not a guaranteed ten ppg against B, and you alone contribute more offensive than Red and Jungle combined (with Jungles new guy we are lucky to get 4 PPG) and we both know it
Holy cow, how did I get that wrong?
Corrected in the OP. Thanks
He should absolutely be considered, but I'm just looking at the other jobs done by Drew and even Pearl, and to me they are more impressive given the talent they are working with compared to Duke. You throw recruiting out the door with this award, its about how you are coaching your players for THIS season. Pearl and Drew are coaching up guys way less talented than K is. If they gave out awards for recruiting, Duke and Kentucky would be back to back to back champions.
I was surprised I was getting the best of J last night. I dropped like 16 and 13 on him back to back. I really thought red would provide more offense for you guys but maybe not. We were talking about our best team on the floor (me, b, red) and they were trying to argue that Brandon's big and reds SG were a better combo than reds big and B's offensive threat. I told them they were crazy
See, I think part of coaching is recruiting. It's a BIG part of it... entire coaching staffs spend months and months on it, you know? So if you are going to say "They've done the same as Duke but with worse rosters" as an advantage for them I think you have to put equal weight on "They've done really well and have great talent."
And yeah, Reds big and Brandons offensive threat is a MILLION times better. Red is absolutely NASTY with his big at the 3 spot, but I think is still sort of learning to be a guard... he tends just goes one on one, and has a tougher time finding his jumpshot, especially in the mid range, I think because he still isn't fluid with using screens... like, a screen will hit, but he will still be dribbling back and forth a bit instead of using that moment to get to an open spot 18 feet out and hitting a mid range jumper?
And I'm not surprised, your primary guy is an offensive beast and you have a ton of experience with him. Jungle's guy still isn't badged up at ALL, which makes it very hard to contain you. I will say... I wish Jungle had made a red/green player... without him generating much offense, it puts a ton of pressure on the other two players. If it is, say, you and me I think it's generally fine... I can generally get some buckets, and you can fill it up regularly. But like a team of me/J/Red, when Red isn't playing great and I've got Brandon on me... it can be very hit or miss.
I could be wrong, but it sounded like you were pretty much dismissing him as a candidate in your original post.
The National Coach of the Year almost always goes to someone who finishes the regular season in the top 5. And I'm more than okay if a team that wasn't talked about as much in the preseason like Baylor, Butler, or West Virginia has their coach awarded as NCOY. But, if Duke maintains this level of play over the next two month, K absolutely has to be considered one of the candidates. Maybe not the lead candidate, but he's at least in the running.
Not dismissing K at all. I actually like K for the most part, unlike most Kentucky fans. I just don't think he's as deserving as some of the other coaches this year. I would probably have him at 4 or 5 right now.
Not to derail this thread with our basketball talk (gets me giddy) but yea I can see where you're coming from. Plus, red isn't the passer that I am. He has a score first mentality where as I typically will look for another option when I bring the ball up, at least at first. But when I have to score I feel like I can do it in just about any way I need to. Hurts us sometimes when i'm that ball dominant because I turn it over a lot
Overall I think your A:TO rate is pretty good, given that your ball handling ratings aren't that high and you don't have a bevy of playmaking badges. Red, I think part of it is his naturally aggressive instinct, and part of it is inexperience with a guard. I do sometimes think he could post me up a bit more... when I have those mismatches, I feel like he should REALLY know it, given that he spends so much time as a big. I think I was on fire three games in a row yesterday, and only touched the ball like twice in that time
2.9 to 1. Not bad
Better than Tre Jones!
PS Is it crazy to consider ditching my bronze pogo in order to get silver brick wall? I feel like my screens just don't hit like I want them to.
I almost feel like your pogo should be way higher than just bronze. We will have to talk about that tonight
He's a dirty talker. Very dirty
The problem is that I don't have the space. I have 8 defensive upgrades total.
Rebound chaser gold
Brick wall bronze
Box out bronze
That's it. I feel like the rebounding on gold has been REALLY key to my guy being a pretty good rebounder, given that my rebounding stats are actually pretty low.
Dude, I miss my defensive badges SO much. I did max out both my finishing and defensive badges with my 6'11 guy, and almost want to break him out a bit
Seems Jeff Goodman agrees with Jimbo and I :
1) Scott Drew, Baylor – Drew lost Mario Kegler prior to the season and big man Tristan Clark – the team’s leading scorer a year ago before he went down with a knee injury – is a shell of himself. However, the Bears are 13-1 and have the best resume in the country right now with road wins at Kansas and Texas Tech, a victory in Myrtle Beach against Villanova as well as wins against Butler and Arizona in Waco. Drew has done an incredible job this season.
2) LaVall Jordan, Butler – The Bulldogs were picked eighth in the Big East preseason poll after a 16-17 season a year ago, but Jordan has Butler firmly in the top 10 with a resume that includes wins over Purdue, Creighton and Florida, and a lone loss that came against Baylor in Waco. The 40-year-old Butler alum was hired after one season at Milwaukee and is making AD Barry Collier look pretty damn good right now.
3) Brian Dutcher, San Diego State – Dutch was the coach-in-waiting and was Steve Fisher’s right-hand man for decades at both Michigan and San Diego State. The first two seasons of the Dutcher regime were a little uninspiring, but the 60-year-old has the Aztecs as one of the final two unbeatens and has silenced the skeptics.
4) Bob Huggins, West Virginia – The Mountaineers were a mess last season, but Huggins has flipped it this season with some new faces and an inside duo of Oscar Tshiebwe and Derek Culver. West Virginia is 13-2 with wins over Ohio State, Texas Tech and Wichita State.
5) Bruce Pearl, Auburn – It’s truly insane what Pearl has done with the Tigers. After going to the Final Four a year ago, Auburn is one of two teams still without a loss. Sure, the schedule has hardly been overwhelming, but it’s mid-January and Auburn still doesn’t have a blemish. Pearl is one of the elite coaches in the game and has now proven it at various stops.
6) Mark Few, Gonzaga – Few lost two first-rounders from last year’s team in Rui Hachimura and Brandon Clarke, as well as two other starters in point guard Josh Perkins and Zach Norvell. There were probably more questions about this team coming into the season than any in Spokane in recent memory, and all Few has done is have the ‘Zags at 18-1 and in line for a No. 1 overall seed. He’s done it with a balanced group, and with seven players that average between 9.2 and 16.6 points per game.
7) Dane Fischer, William & Mary – To say the expectations for the Tribe were low is an understatement. They were picked seventh in the CAA after a mass exodus in the offseason following the surprising departure of Tony Shaver. I hammered the move, but Fischer has made AD Samantha Huge look smart as the former Bucknell and George Mason assistant has W&M 13-5 overall and 5-0 in CAA play.
8) Leonard Hamilton, Florida State – Hamilton is the youngest-looking 71-year-old on the planet, and has done another terrific job in Tallahassee. The guy just doesn’t get enough credit, but the ‘Noles are 14-2, a legit top 10 team right now and boast one of the most impressive wins this season at Louisville.
9) Anthony Grant, Dayton – Grant came back home and has put the Flyers back on the national map this season with the help of Obi Toppin. Grant came back to college after a stint with Billy Donovan in the NBA, and has the Flyers at 14-2 with the two losses coming on neutral courts to Kansas and Colorado.
10) Steve Pikiell, Rutgers – The Scarlet Knights are 12-4 and have wins over Seton Hall, Wisconsin and Penn State. Pikiell has Rutgers in position to go to its first NCAA tourney since 1991.
11) Ritchie McKay, Liberty – The Flames are 18-1 with their lone loss coming in Baton Rouge against LSU. The 18-1 record says it all.
12) Gregg Marshall, Wichita State – After a down year by Shockers standards a season ago, Marshall has Wichita State back. The Shockers are 15-1 with the lone setback coming against West Virginia.
13) Kyle Keller, Stephen F. Austin – The guy beat Duke at Cameron. Need I say more?
14) Pat Chambers, Penn State – It’s considered one of the more difficult jobs in the country, but Chambers has a chance to get the Nittany Lions to the NCAA tourney this season, his ninth at the helm. Penn State is 12-4 overall and a fringe top 25 team.
15) Jerod Haase, Stanford – The Cardinal were picked 10th in the Pac-12, but Haase has the team at 14-2 and 3-0 in league play. The two losses came to a pair of top 10 teams: Butler and Kansas.
16) Eric Musselman, Arkansas – I’m not sure how good the Razorbacks are, but what I know is that Musselman has them on the verge of cracking the top 25 in his first season. Musselman rebuilt Nevada, and now he’s trying to do the same with Arkansas in Fayetteville.
17) Mike Young, Virginia Tech – Picked to finish only in front of Wake Forest, Young has led the Hokies to a dozen wins already, including one over Michigan State. Virginia Tech also boasts three league victories with two coming over Syracuse and NC State.
18) Keith Dambrot, Duquesne – Dambrot has the Dukes at 14-2 overall and 3-0 in A-10 play. The last time Duquesne made the NCAA tourney was back in 1977.
19) Geno Ford, Stony Brook – Geno Ford got a second chance after being promoted following the departure of Jeff Boals, and he has the Seawolves at 12-6 overall and 3-0 in America East play, including a road win over league favorite Vermont.
20) David Patrick, UC Riverside – At 12-6 and 2-0 in league play, UC Riverside has beaten Nebraska and a pair of Mountain West teams in Fresno State and San Jose State.
21) Rob Senderoff, Kent State – Picked to finish in the middle in the east division, the Golden Flashes are 13-3 overall and 3-0 in the MAC with wins over Bowling Green and Toledo, two teams picked to win their divisions. The losses have come to Ohio State, Mississippi State and UC Irvine.
22) Austin Claunch, Nicholls – I had to get the youngest D-1 head coach in the country on here, but he’s earned it. Picked 11th in the Southland, the 30-year-old Claunch has led the Colonels to an 11-6 overall mark and a league-leading 5-1 record.
23) Herb Sendek, Santa Clara – The former NC State and Arizona State head coach has quietly done a nice job in Santa Clara, leading the Broncos to a 15-3 record with wins over Pac-12 teams and also a road victory over Saint Mary’s.
24) Damon Stoudamire, Pacific – The former Arizona and NBA star guard has turned it around at one of the most difficult jobs in the league. The Tigers are 14-5 overall, 2-1 in WCC play with a win over Saint Mary’s and also a non-league victory against UNLV.
25) Rick Croy, Cal Baptist – In just his second season in the D-1 ranks, Croy has the Lancers in second in the WAC behind New Mexico State. Cal Baptist is 12-5 overall and has conference wins over Bakersfield and Grand Canyon on the road.
That’s a ****ing ******ed list. Are we really going to argue that the guy who constructed and coached a team that depends so heavily on freshmen and has only a single top ten high school player and is starting a guy who was ranked around 400 in high school, that has moved between first and fourth in the nation, that has a single loss by a single bucket in a fluke game for a young team, and has beaten half of the top top of KenPom (one on a neutral site, and one at their home court) is doing a worse job than the head coach of UC Riverside and Cal Baptist?
This is exactly what I mean by trying to be too smart. It’s an issue a good number of sports reporters suffer from.
Leonard Hamilton should definitely be in the discussion. FSU is a top 10 team and half the teams in the ACC have better basketball facilities and are able to recruit better than FSU. It’s really impressive FSU is as good as they are after losing Kabengele, Mann, Koumadje, Cofer, Savoy, and Nichols.
GD thedude is ****ing triggered over this
It's a weird flex when your coach lost at home as a 28.5 point favorite. That's the biggest college basketball upset in recorded history. I'm pretty sure 99% of people on this board think K is the GOAT. You're getting way too worked up over this lol
Jordan, or the guy at San Diego State.
It isn’t a flex, and I’m not that worked up... I’m just pointing out facts, and I get a bit irritated when people get silly. Sure, we lost to a team that is ranked 122 on KenPom (higher, btw, than a host of teams, including UCLA and UNLV and Nebraska and Vandy and BC, not to mention a number of teams coached by guys on that Top 25 list above.) Losses, even upsets, happen, especially with teams which feature a ton of freshmen who aren’t in that top level of elite recruits, and point spreads don’t mean much outside of expectations, which often turn out to be wrong (although I know they make for fun headlines.)
But the idea that K wouldn’t even be in the top 25 of coaches in the country as of yesterday afternoon, and the coaches of worse teams with worse results would be ranked ahead of him, is just silly, and shows how hard some people will work in order to deny the obvious in favor of trying to seem smarter than everyone else. I mean, come on... did you read that list? The guy at number 20, his team is 12-6, and his first listed great accomplishment is beating Nebraska... a team ranked lower than Stephen F Austin in Kenpom.
Just saying... often experts (and even fans) resist giving some people their due, sometimes because those people have been successful for a long time and it’s taken for granted by fans and the experts (although it doesn’t take any less work on the part of the person accomplishing that success; success should never be assumed, and doesn’t just happen), sometimes because the experts want to seem smart by picking something controversial or unexpected. It’s silly.
Btw, obviously I know we lost to Clemson. It doesn’t change the argument as of yesterday afternoon, although it changes it now. But my point stands.
Scott Drew is the runaway candidate for COY right now...which is weird because this is a coach that hoop heads make fun of all the time for doing less with more, especially in the NCAAT.
Team was trash last year. Ran guys off, rebuilt his roster in one off season and has a top 10 team in the running for a 1 seed. Lot of basketball to be played though.
I think he’s in the convo considering the losses off last years team. Still a skeptic tho. They whip UL at UL and yet nearly lose to some very poor small schools. Guess you could say that about many ranked teams tho. Shaky season, better than I expected...so far. I was thinking 10-12 losses. UVA coming up. Rebounding may kill FSU in this one.
Darkhorse candidate -Kevin Willard at Seton Hall...
If that's the tune you play every year, though, why is K even considered an all-time great at all?
It's sort of like racism: If you dismiss every allegation, why not claim it doesn't exist anymore?
What are you even talking about? Are you dukies still arguing he should be coach of the year after back to back Ls? He wasn’t coach of the year before that either. Other coaches had done better. It’s really that simple. Not surprised you would try and bring racism into a thread like this.
Chris Mack is doing pretty good for his second year, having a bunch of players he didn’t even recruit. 15-3 not too shabby. We will see if he can have some decent post season success this year though.
agreed, but just in the ACC I would have Hamilton ranked ahead of him for COY award
No doubt. Ham has been deserving.
might be a bit of a homer pick but Leonard Hamilton
F*** Pat Chambers and F*** Penn State.
IMO, guys like Roy, Cal, K, Self, etc, etc...don't get the respect they deserve. A punishment of their success, so to speak. To me, a COY in today's CBB is kind of a "god damn, we thought you sucked ass---but man, you fooled us----THis year anyways", kind of award. I just think what guys like K, Self, Cal and Roy---Few, Izzo and Wright, do year in and year out gets overlooked b/c of how good they have been , for so long.
It was an anaaaaaaaaalooooogyyyyyyyyy.