I'm at 37K now. Poor or middleclass? The posts keep moving. I feel poor..
Richest forum members?
- Thread starter TheDude1
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I also didn't mean that in a negative way towards your opinion. I just know I have friends that consider themselves middle class and upper middle class----when I certainly would not. Sep if you have kids. But like we have mentioned earlier---small business owners usually have a different take on things b/c we see first hand what things cost, know how much money you have to make each month....before you make any money. For example, my sister had no idea how much her insurance actually cost working for the VA....she just knew the portion she had to pay for her share. Im not kidding you, she pays like $396 month for her and her daughter and the govt pays the other $1300.
Before taxes/after taxes? Married? Kids? I think you had mentioned you fell on some hard times and are just getting started again?
3k a month is definitely livable, but you have to know where every dollar is going. Thats roughly 700-800 per week. Things that make your salary disappear lightening quick are health insurance, car payment, rent payment, groceries, and gas.
126k for family of three doesn’t seem upper class to me. Especially when you’re looking at 13k a year for private education in grade school, closer to 20k in high school and that or more for college.
When I think upper class, need like 250k+ and that’s not even that rich.
Also, this is why I don’t want kids. Though my girlfriend won’t shut up about marrying and popping one out.
When I think upper class, need like 250k+ and that’s not even that rich.
Also, this is why I don’t want kids. Though my girlfriend won’t shut up about marrying and popping one out.
You and I are on the same page. Th point I was trying to make to others was the the middle class is really broad in the sense $40k is a lot different than $100k. I’m stressed, but I know how lucky I am as well.
We just let go of an employee who never considered the fact we paid for her insurance, matched her 401k by 3%, gave her a childcare credit of $350 per child monthly, flex hours, and kept a bad ass office full of food and drinks as benefits. She’s gonna be in for a surprise at her next job.
Those benefits you offer take so much attention and paperwork---I don't know how you do it. Thats stressed magnified.
There is a wild gap bt 40k-126K. Almost cant even compare it. I think expectations on what being middle class are pretty different as well. I think it would shock people if they knew what it took to live in this house with this car, or this house and this car. What age are the people that live in these homes and drives these cars. How long it took them to save, what they have left over every month for discretionary income.
Pretax. Paycheck was 500+. 4 grandkids. Mortgage will be paid in 3 years. Wife brings in 300bucks week part time. I went from 55K to 37K. Each payday I'm getting farther behind. Waiting for results from a supervisor interview..
We have an HR person and we use ADP for our benefits. The fee they charge isn’t bad and they provide a ton of service. We are also grouped into their health plans so our rates are pretty damn good considering.
To your later point, I have no clue what people think anymore. Nothing surprises me. I was a banker before jumping into this gig and saw all kinds of crazy stuff. I do know that almost everyone secretly thinks others are making way more than what they actually earn.
Well good luck to you...I know it isn't easy. Its even harder when you were making more and now you're making less. You never expect to move down. Keep up the good fight.
One things for sure . . . there's people a hell of a lot worse off than all of us raising kids.
Where you live plays a huge role. My mother lived in NYC. Retired nurse, and waitress. Her income is roughly $2,800 month, plus her What she saved. It was hard for her to live in NY die to cost of living. She now lives in Utah. Doing just fine.
The Dude is a very weird dude. Who the fuk cares how much other people earn?
Bruh I am not upper class. I don't think people understand what upper class is. It isn't me , I could be wiped out very easily. Went thru bad times financially from 2010-2012 with the housing industry. I was just turning 27 years old and didn't quite have the experience to make myself in high of demand as I made myself a few years later. You can come up with a statistic to argue anything.
Again, you’re making my point for me. You don’t feel upperclass, but you are. Mean household income in this country is less than $50k, yet you want to tell me the middle class is strong.
You said $42K to 126K is considered middle class. That is a large range. Better indicator would be income based on zip code or at least market someone is living in. This is just lazy and doesn't account for cost of living.
You're off base brother. If we are talking upper class, we're looking at household incomes of $350,000 or more. Household incomes of $100K - $350K are considered upper 'middle' class; not upper class.
I've seen some pundits or financial reporting agencies try to categorize upper class as anyone earning household income that is two times the median Household income in the US (median household income in the US was about $59K as of January). That is just not accurate; not even close.
I have two kids and a wife, few pets, two cars, house. I make way above two times the median household income in this country, and I am no where close to upper class. I feel smack dab in the middle of the middle class.
Now I have a friend with a dental practice in Pinehurst, NC - that bitch is upper class. He pulls in about $500K-$600K annually. He's got a nice set up.
You’re applying anecdotal evidence where I’ve provided empirical evidence. You keep unwittingly supporting my point. Mean household income in the USA is around $50k which supports the argument that the Middle Class ranges from low $40s to $120s. By definition, when you start to get beyond those numbers you fall into lower or upper class. That range accounts for zip codes. How is this not making sense to you?
As I’ve stayed above and in other posts, Middle Class is defined when you look at the broad spectrum of incomes across all families. $50k is the mean income for families in this country. When you adjust for everything, the middle class fall from $40-126k. Anything outside of that is, by definition, not middle class.
My point is the Middle Class is shrinking. It is not as strong as it used to be. Middle Class income is not keeping up with inflation.
This has been good discussion. Solid read.
I think a few of y'all are right even if it sounds like y'all are disagreeing.
To me, the middle class is in decent shape in the abstract sense. @Matt Laurer is right--the middle class is weaker than 50 years ago. But it still seems decent to me.
The PROBLEM is, most people in the middle class want to and try to live an upper class lifestyle. Part of the reason why the middle class was stronger 50 years ago is because the middle class didn't drive Mercedes and take fancy vacations every year. They didn't own massive homes and buy all the latest gadgets.
True middle class isn't taking Viking Cruises or going out to nice restaurants 3 times a week. True middle class isn't having season tickets and a beach house.
Unfortunately, most of the middle class doesn't realize that. And this is why you see half the country with less than a couple grand in cash reserves or savings.
I think a few of y'all are right even if it sounds like y'all are disagreeing.
To me, the middle class is in decent shape in the abstract sense. @Matt Laurer is right--the middle class is weaker than 50 years ago. But it still seems decent to me.
The PROBLEM is, most people in the middle class want to and try to live an upper class lifestyle. Part of the reason why the middle class was stronger 50 years ago is because the middle class didn't drive Mercedes and take fancy vacations every year. They didn't own massive homes and buy all the latest gadgets.
True middle class isn't taking Viking Cruises or going out to nice restaurants 3 times a week. True middle class isn't having season tickets and a beach house.
Unfortunately, most of the middle class doesn't realize that. And this is why you see half the country with less than a couple grand in cash reserves or savings.
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Why the heck do you need to spend $10K+ on elementary school? Or any money for that matter?
I'm definitely middle class and do not drive a Mercedes, have a beach house or season tickets, lol. That is probably why I have more than a couple grand in savings. Then again, I do play golf every weekend. That probably isn't the smartest thing in the world.
Yeah, that's a good point. I could probably buy that new Rogue driver I want if I could just lay off the MW. But how much can one enjoy life without Miracle Whip, right?
That’s another aspect to consider. I pay $108 dollars a month for health care and it’s damn good care with all sorts of cool stuff (ie. free Skype appointments from home with a nurse practitioner for simple things).
Yeah, our HC is good and not expensive (maybe like 300 a month or something) compared to some I know. The summer job I used to work charged their guys like $800 a week for insurance and these guys were making like $12 an hour or something. Just absurd. Benefits are certainly a part of compensation that has to be considered.
No I am providing more variables to get more accurate data. Middle class earnings in NYC aren't the same as Cedar Rapids , Iowa.
The middle class is shrinking while the lower class levels remain the same. This shows that the people leaving the middle class are moving up, not down.
The middle class is an enigma anyway. It has only existed for 65 years or so and was created during the industrial boom. A better name for it would be working class, or labor class. The world is moving away from laboring as a means of existence and now has chosen to consume above all else. This is why everyone seems to be struggling as we didn’t plan ahead for the change we saw happening in the 70’s.
Hard to explain. My kid would be 4th generation at one private high school. But that’s but that’s not unusual with Catholics here.
So not only do you give tithes, but you have to pay 5 figures a year for your kid to get an education from the church? Man, sounds like if there is a priest on here he'd be one of the wealthier posters.
Wow---I'd be lying if i said I'm not jealous. I did however just complete an on-line eye exam and ordered more contacts via simple contacts. I couldn't believe it was legal. Very basic
126k being upper class is hard for me to accept. I always figured around 250+. One of our drivers made north of 80k last year and his wife is a nurse likely at least at 50k. I wouldn't consider a truck driver and a nurse as upper class.
Yup. One thing I'll add is that the middle class hasn't grown at the rate the upper class has in terms of income. It's lagged the growth rate of the upper class, yet materialism has skyrocketed. So in a sense it probably feels as though things have gone backwards for the middle class. Just because you WANT to have nice things doesn't always NEED them. Some people think, hey I can afford a $1,000 car payment a month. Yeah, I'm only making $1,500 a month, but I can make that work. People just let their desires get ahead of reality. Hell, I'd really like to buy a second home in Lake Tahoe. I can afford it, but that doesn't mean I should. I have young kids and other, more important, things to save/plan for in the future.
The day people stop relying on credit cards and debt (exclusive of reasonable homes, cars and school) to live their lives, the better off we will be. Need to do what our parents did and not buy anything unless you've got the cash for it.
That's crazy. I didn't even know that was a thing. Really good idea. I hope that's catching on everywhere.
We have a combined income of around $146k. Though we are not hurting, we certainly don't fell like upper class.
Yes, I understand the variances in cost of living. I grew up in rural eastern, NC and now live just outside of DC in one of the wealthiest counties in the country.
If I was trying to say a much smaller range of salaries comprised the middle class, your point would be valid. But the broad range of
$40-125k accounts for the variance of cost of living. $125k is hard to get by on in many areas of the country as a family of 3.
You keep trying to regionalize middle class, where I (and by definition) am accounting for it on a national scale.
So your next reply would be to say those who can’t earn more that that should stay out of the expensive areas. That’s good in theory but everywhere needs garbage men, taxi drivers, servers, etc. Hence my point, the middle class is shrinking. They are becoming limited on where they can live. And that’s a problem.
Actually both the upper and lower classes are growing.
Thanks for helping to continue to make my point. The dollar ain’t what it used to. Salaries haven’t kept up with inflation.
So since this thread has turned into more of a financial advisory thread. Let me get some advice on a personal issue.
We recently had a plumbing pipe break and it destroyed the subflooring in an area about 15x15. Sheetrock damage and the carpet in that area too. Our deductible is $2,500 and the estimate was around $4,000 to repair and put in hardwoods in place of the carpet. I opted to do a temporary repair and hold off on making a claim. Mainly because I am planning on replacing our A/C unit and figured we would get a personal loan to do that and new hardwoods throughout the house. Our credit union gave us a rough estimate of 4% apr on a five year loan.
Thoughts? Good/bad idea?
We recently had a plumbing pipe break and it destroyed the subflooring in an area about 15x15. Sheetrock damage and the carpet in that area too. Our deductible is $2,500 and the estimate was around $4,000 to repair and put in hardwoods in place of the carpet. I opted to do a temporary repair and hold off on making a claim. Mainly because I am planning on replacing our A/C unit and figured we would get a personal loan to do that and new hardwoods throughout the house. Our credit union gave us a rough estimate of 4% apr on a five year loan.
Thoughts? Good/bad idea?
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