Nope, most of the monsters causing the shootings are going into it with their lives ending one way or the other- they would still happen
OT: School Shooting in South Florida
- Thread starter anon_0astpxev9h4gk
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I hugged your wife extra hard this morning. Extra hardHm. Anyone else hug their kids extra hard before they left the house this am?
****ing world, where my six year old boy does lockdown drills
It’s her time of the month. Jokes on you.
How is this kid not reported to some sort of authority? Had guns and knives all over his social media accounts. He had posts like I wasnt to shoot people or something like that, at least that’s what I heard this morning on the news. How do people not say, hey this kid seems super messed up. Maybe the police should be made aware. He was an orphan so no doubt had issues.
People will argue. Names like “snowflake” and “lib****s” will got thrown around. Nothing will get done, and this will happen again.
That's because it's a difficult, complex issue. It's not just a gun problem. It's not just a mental health issue. It's not just a eroded family life issue. It's a lot of problems wrapped into one big mess, in my opinion.
How many “big messe” have to happen before something finally changes?
Gun violence is currently the 3rd leading cause of death among children in the United States. Do we have to wait till it’s the #1 leading cause, before we do something?
What do you suggest we do? Ban assault style weapons? Ok, fine. Do you think that's going to stop a kid like this from completing what he did? The news is reporting word of bomb making material in the kids home. A kid like this that's hell bent on causing destruction and death can find a way to get it done. So maybe he gets a few handguns and a bomb and still kills kids at his school. What would we do then? What would you then blame for this? It's not JUST guns. It's a lot of issues wrapped into one big mess.
Thinking this would be solved by gun laws/restrictions is narrow minded.
One thing I was thinking this morning. Maybe we make the age to buy guns like 25 or older. Push the age back some to try and keep legal guns out of the hands of kids/young people.
I’m a gun owner. Have several, my kids have shot since they were 5. My wife shoots, and we both have our CCW’s. I’m by no means anti-gun. I am, however, anti-psychopaths having guns. You have to take a test to get a drivers license, but can walk into any gun show and purchase an arsenal without being looked at twice. I bought my son a Ruger 10/22 for Xmas. Took me 2 hours at the store. A guy behind me was buying a TON of guns. 5-6 rifles and 3 pistols. He had been waiting about as long as I had, and he was livid. Blaming liberals for this process taking so long. He even asked the guy behind the counter if they wanted his first born. He slammed Obama, and the “snowflakes.” I’ve waited in lines for basketball games longer than it took to buy his stockpile. Yet, he was angry as hell he had to wait. IMO, dude should've waited a few days, maybe a week. He didn’t need all that shit immediately.
We don’t need assault rifles for hunting or home protection. I’m not saying I have the answer, but I do have some suggestions.
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There are a lot of aspects to this.
And I don't think anything will ever really be done about it.
I don't think Americans are willing to spend the money we need to on the mental health care that we need. I honestly think there are a sizable number of Americans who think a lot of it is feel good nonsense for hippies, and who don't want to have to pay for someone else to just "talk to someone" or whatever.
I don't think there is a realistic and logical way to tackle societal issues that encourage violence, especially in our society, where there is a lot of selfishness and "me, me, me!"
I don't think there is an effective way to manage how crazy people have access to news and information and other influences, especially with the internet.
I see a segment of America unwilling to even discuss serious gun limits (and, let's be honest, the gun lobby has its politicians bought and paid for.)
If nothing changed after Sandy Hook, if nothing changed after Gabby Giffords, if nothing changed after Steve Scalise, nothing will EVER change in this country. Ever. Part of it is because it is such a huge problem that it is hard to change. Part of it is because some Americans simply do not think the changes we would need to make are worth it.
I dont mind assault rifles. I own one and have my CHL as well. I think we can clean up the background check stuff as well. If you want a gun bad enough, even if you had to take a test or wait a week, that should be fine for everyone. I think maybe we start incorporating a social media check in the background check. That may be going too far or be too difficult, but I agree there Are some simple things that can be done. Banning any type of gun outside of automatic weapons won’t change a thing, in my opinion.
Absolutely agree.
Edit: I don’t mind assault rifles, if you’re level headed, not a psycho, and don’t try to claim it’s for “hunting,” then no problem. Let’s be honest and recognize what a AR is really for. We both know theyre not for taking down deer. Now, that said, they’re a lot of fun to shoot, and have a place in a responsible gun owners home. Sadly, the mf’ers who are doing these evil acts, are not responsible gun owners.
Completely agree. I use mine for hog hunting is south Texas. So much fun! I also keep all mine guns in a safe. My kids are too young still to shoot, but I plan to raise them hunting, shooting and being responsible around guns (just like I was and my father and his father, etc..).
Totally unconnected to this conversation, but I was chatting with Jimbo about this last night... some gun owners just piss me off SO badly, because some of them are SUCH idiots. Like... they pop in a mag, flick off the safety to prepare to shoot, and then put the gun down to have a conversation with someone, not even paying attention to where their muzzle is pointing... I've seen black power people have a gun not go off and then turn and sweep the barrel over a person as they bring it back around to check it out... people stick a gun in the waistband of their shorts... I am constantly amazed at how damn dumb some people can be with guns.
And the thing is, if you asked them, every gun owner will say they are 100 percent careful and not part of a problem, same as nearly everyone thinks THEY are a great driver; it is other drivers who suck.
I feel like some gun owners are REALLY careful, in the shooting and storage of their weapons... they are the ones you can trust, and even trust in a bad situation. But some are not, and don't know that they are not. I wish there was a SERIOUS push to ensure that, if you are going to own firearms, that you are qualified to do so... and, frankly, that if you are NOT a good gun owner, that maybe you should lose the right to own your guns.
Unfortunately IMO I don't think that would be allowed to happen.
And the thing is, if you asked them, every gun owner will say they are 100 percent careful and not part of a problem, same as nearly everyone thinks THEY are a great driver; it is other drivers who suck.
I feel like some gun owners are REALLY careful, in the shooting and storage of their weapons... they are the ones you can trust, and even trust in a bad situation. But some are not, and don't know that they are not. I wish there was a SERIOUS push to ensure that, if you are going to own firearms, that you are qualified to do so... and, frankly, that if you are NOT a good gun owner, that maybe you should lose the right to own your guns.
Unfortunately IMO I don't think that would be allowed to happen.
Oh, and before anyone gets upset:
The weapon the guy used was likely NOT an assault rifle, as it did not have a selective fire option that allows for automatic fire.
The mechanics of firearms actually cause huge problems with regulation, because most of them (outside of black powder weapons, bolt action weapons, revolvers, and obviously at the other end of the spectrum the fully automatic weapons) use the same basic mechanic; pull the trigger, fire off a round, another round takes its place automatically. But how do you craft gun laws that treat a small handgun differently than a long gun?
Anyway, probably getting political or something, so I'll let it go.
The weapon the guy used was likely NOT an assault rifle, as it did not have a selective fire option that allows for automatic fire.
The mechanics of firearms actually cause huge problems with regulation, because most of them (outside of black powder weapons, bolt action weapons, revolvers, and obviously at the other end of the spectrum the fully automatic weapons) use the same basic mechanic; pull the trigger, fire off a round, another round takes its place automatically. But how do you craft gun laws that treat a small handgun differently than a long gun?
Anyway, probably getting political or something, so I'll let it go.
that goes back to my question about him getting on bomb making sites
you would think the moment you got on one of those sites you would get flagged by one of our government agencies
There’s always the dark web. If someone wants to learn how to make a bomb, they’ll find a way to get the diagram. It’s a mental health problem, as much as anything else. The government does very little to address the mentally ill.
A lot of these shooters were 'talking to someone'.
No, they need to be locked up in a ward until they can deal with living in society again.
And if you have mental health issues and are posting crazy shit online about shooting up schools, a judge should take away your guns.
Really? I don't remember many of these school shooters being actively in mental health treatment? Not sure we would know if they WERE, of course, because of various HIPAA laws or whathaveyou.
As far as locking them up... who decides they get locked up? Legally, how do you enforce it? And how do you do that without trampling on their various Constitutional rights?
And our current leaders would simply not allow a judge to take away an American citizen's guns without some serious, serious, SERIOUS cause. I know people hate to think about this stuff, but many of our politicians get a LOT of money from lobbies... from education lobbies to lawyer lobbies to pork farmer lobbies... and like them or not, the NRA is not only well funded and well organized, but also has a very strong pull on modern American politics, both in terms of how much money they put in the pockets of politicians but also in their influence over voting citizens.
That's the tricky part--the second amendment and civil rights.
There is no easy answer.
I personally hate giving up civil rights because of random tragedies. Look at how we all panicked after 9-11 with the Patriot Act, formation of the NSA, etc.
Fast forward just a few short years, and we have presidential administrations weaponizing these agencies against the American people. Illegally spying on us. Using FISA courts which were setup to spy on foreign spies to go after political opposition.
That's the problem when we cave with civil liberties. We end up just losing them.
Say what you want about the NRA, but they are one of the most important lobby groups for the protection of American liberty out there.
Hmm... I actually might disagree. I see a LOT of other groups that are more important, in my opinion... but that DEFINITELY gets WAY into politics, so I can accept it is just a difference of opinion
Hmm... I actually might disagree. I see a LOT of other groups that are more important, in my opinion... but that DEFINITELY gets WAY into politics, so I can accept it is just a difference of opinion
Right now the official NRA stance on capacity for magazines, assault weapons bans, etc is somewhat extreme but I get their point. They don't want to compromise any civil rights, ever, because they fear it will start the slow burn of gradually losing more and more.
But maybe it's time for them to change their stance on a few things like mandatory background checks, etc.
Yeah... they actually remind me of the ACLU a bit... they are absolute in their defense of the right they represent. I think for me it is personal, in a way, because I simply do not value that particular right (gun ownership) as highly as they do... but there is certainly an argument to be made for any group being a staunch and unwavering defender of rights, and I certainly respect the hell out of the ACLU overall for what they do, even if I REALLY disagree with some of their individual stances in individual cases.
On an aside, I noticed that the AP is now reporting this guy was a member of some white nationalist militia in Florida.
I have to say, I have absolutely ZERO patience for f'ing militias. NONE. Forget the practical matter, that A) the United States isn't likely to become some dictatorship and B) that some group of civilians who run through the woods once a month would get a train run on them by the United State military... but I also just see it as so immensely anti-America. Of course I know that anti-government militias are what secured our status as a nation back in 1776, but nowadays... I just don't have patience for these groups that basically exist to shoot American law enforcement officers and soldiers if those law enforcement officers and soldiers run afoul of what these militia members believe is right and proper.
I really hate them. And obviously I don't have any sympathy for Nazis, but I suppose that SHOULD go without saying
Yeah... they actually remind me of the ACLU a bit... they are absolute in their defense of the right they represent. I think for me it is personal, in a way, because I simply do not value that particular right (gun ownership) as highly as they do... but there is certainly an argument to be made for any group being a staunch and unwavering defender of rights, and I certainly respect the hell out of the ACLU overall for what they do, even if I REALLY disagree with some of their individual stances in individual cases.
On an aside, I noticed that the AP is now reporting this guy was a member of some white nationalist militia in Florida.
I have to say, I have absolutely ZERO patience for f'ing militias. NONE. Forget the practical matter, that A) the United States isn't likely to become some dictatorship and B) that some group of civilians who run through the woods once a month would get a train run on them by the United State military... but I also just see it as so immensely anti-America. Of course I know that anti-government militias are what secured our status as a nation back in 1776, but nowadays... I just don't have patience for these groups that basically exist to shoot American law enforcement officers and soldiers if those law enforcement officers and soldiers run afoul of what these militia members believe is right and proper.
I really hate them. And obviously I don't have any sympathy for Nazis, but I suppose that SHOULD go without saying
Yup. The ACLU can't come out and support common sense laws that would ban abortion in 2rd/3rd trimester viable/uncomplicated pregnancies because they have to play to their base just like the NRA won't budge on common sense gun control issues.
Both suck.
Very, very different. Whatever the NRA was, it's now a front for gun manufacturers. They buy legislators and use selfish, fear-mongering propaganda.
The ACLU does none of that.
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