****Official B1G Off-Season Thread****
- Thread starter MGC_07
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Yeah, top 25 is probably fair. Top 2 in conference might be a stretch though.
Yep. If we are going to go KenPom, in the last 7 years, Painter has gone:
9
19
5
9
24
25
14
He's had 4 Sweet 16's and an Elite Eight in that time.
Izzo has four top 7 KenPom finishes in the last 7 years (and a Final Four in that time).
Hell, in the past 3 years, Fran has gone 23, 7 and 13.
Other than the E8, has he? He’s 58-30 .659 overall 32-20 .615 in conference over that timeframe. (H2H)
Just for reference:
Gard: 64-31 .673 / 39-21 .650 (2-2)
Holtmann: 63-32 .663 / 35-25 .583 (4-1)
Izzo: 60-35 .632 / 34-26 .567 (3-2)
McCaffery: 68-30 .694 / 37-23 .617 (2-2)
Painter: 63-33 .656 / 36-23 .610 (1-4)
Underwood: 68-27 .716 / 44-16 .733 (4-0)
Gard and Underwood have both been objectively significantly better in that timeframe against common foes. Izzo was down, but he’s obviously got history on his side. Painter was probably slightly worse, but similarly, he’s got years of consistent production that push him for me. Fran has done well recently, but he’s definitely battling Holtmann for the best of the rest.
I get the tournament is the main goal, but a small sample doesn’t completely override full datasets in any type of statistics that I’ve ever seen. Howard is a top 5 coach in the conference, and maybe top 3 or 4. That’s fair.
Note: I didn’t take the time you add the conf tourney numbers in the totals because I forgot until I was done counting, and it would have taken too long.
247 is the best remaining scouting service right now.
Rivals has been all downhill since Bossi left, and they are even worse now that Jamie Shaw left.
ESPN usually is good at ranking the 5 stars, but 25-100 is a mess.
Kenpom finishes
Wisconsin: 22, 14, 37
Michigan: 16, 3, 27
NCAA Tournament Wins
Wisconsin: 2 (R32, R32)
Michigan: 5 (S16, E8)
I don't know how you can say Gard has been overall better than Howard over the past 3 seasons.
Yeah, I get the tournament is the only legitimate point. We know the count, and again, it’s 3 wins vs 1 for perspective.
Conference win standings:
Wisconsin: 1, 6, 1
Michigan: 9, 2, 8
Michigan has finished higher in end of the year Kenpom ratings than Wisconsin all three years and went further in both tournaments.
IMO Jamie Shaw was the worst. I know a lot of Osu fans didn’t like Brian Snow but he covered the Midwest as thoroughly and better than most.
I find it interesting how much variance there is with individual recruits between the sites as compared to maybe 5-6 years ago.
Okay, I’m willing to concede Gard. I did say top 4 was a reasonable argument.
PSU potentially losing 4 of their top recruiting targets in a week.
If we are just going by from when Howard was hired then Izzo has no argument.
Underwood/Howard
Painter/Gard/Fran
Izzo
Again, why do we want to subset the data? Also, they owner of the account that made this list is an 18 yr old Iowa fan.
Need an update as Terps add another top 100 (39 on 247).
More importantly 3rd 4star from DMV for the new guy
Because when evaluating Howard I like to compare him to how other coaches have done in the Howard era.
Also I have no idea where that picture is from. I copy and pasted it from a different thread here.
Good. I was reading their recruiting thread, and all of their posters were so level-headed that I was rooting for them.
Right, but I don't think anyone would discount Izzo's career because of 3 mediocre seasons. Howard has definitely been better over that time period.
I think the unbalanced schedule can skew conference only results in a short window so I'd trust KenPom before I'd go there personally.
Over one season, sure. Over three, it balances out.
Illinois - 7.0
Wisconsin - 8.7
Purdue - 9.3
Iowa - 12.7
OSU - 12.0
MSU - 8.7
Michigan 7.7
He turns 68 this year and is coming off the worst two year stretch in his career and 2022/23 doesn’t appear much better.
Would you rather have Underwood or Izzo over the next 3-5 seasons?
Only 2 mediocre seasons thus far. Go back 3 seasons and we won the conference.
I’m biased, so you know my thought. I like Underwood’s recent success, but I’m also very interested to see what he does with this year’s team. We’ll see him change up his system again, and if he’s able to turn this team into a contender, that will be an impressive job.
Izzo has been cleaning up on the recruiting trail, and I’m not convinced he’s all of a sudden a bad coach. His decision to stand pat this off-season was perplexing, but his team should be decent again.
I wouldn’t say he’s a bad coach but given his age and his past two seasons I think it’s fair to question if he’s still the best coach n the conference recently and going forward.
Why is Izzo being questioned so much? They won the B10, had a Covid year which should have a huge asterisk for everyone and then went as far in the NCAA’s as all but a few conference schools last year and those results are usually more matchup based.
This year will really inform my opinion of Coach Underwood a lot more. Even his biggest hater wouldn't deny that he's proven he can turn around a program in magnificent fashion ... he walked into a dumpster fire, and he was getting #1 seeds and winning conference championships a few years later. The 2021 NCAA loss was extremely disappointing, but I guess upsets happen; I am willing to let a coach get upset at least a couple of times in the Tournament before that becomes concerning (no, I do not think losing to a 5-seed Houston team that made the Elite Eight an "upset" in any way, shape or form).
However, he has had a lot of really good leadership through that time. I know we have a lot of talent, but if he can get these transfers and young guys to gel and be at least as successful as last season (maybe NOT winning the Big Ten but also making the Sweet Sixteen or something), I will be very impressed. As optimistic as I am about this season, we did lose every starter. It will be very impressive if he puts together another great season.
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