*Official* 2017-2018 B1G In-Season Thread

[MileHighSpartan]

Thats why i said pretty close, last 4 years with the 14 team schedule the B1G winners csos was ranked:

2018-14th
2017-11th
2016-13th
2015-14th

You look at the entirety of Kenpom and 9 of the last 17 had the easiest, 11 of the 17 seasons they had the 1st or 2nd easiest, 1st, 2nd or 3rd easiest, 14 out of 17 years. I just find it hard to complain with the CSOS, its going to change year to year and can't even be predicted based on preseason predictions. The team who wins doesn't have to play the best team at all, that'll always help SOS.

I wonder how much that is a factor, into the actual calculations. Seems like either the easiest CSOS is a major factor in who wins the title, or that the CSOS not including the title team is a major factor in the calculations.

It's also interesting on the stats provided showing that MSU only played one of the "top 6" on the road. Going into the season, I don't think anyone thought OSU and Nebraska were Top4 teams, while Wisconsin and Maryland were not Top6 teams. Injuries decimated both teams.

Also, isn't that tweet posted above, actually incorrect? Indiana is the 6-seed in the BTT, and MSU definitely played and won at their place (and at home).

 

[nitewing]

these are the top 3 point shooters that return
Bohannon 42.9%
Moss 39.8%
Ellingson 39.5%
Dailey 37.7%
even the 2 FR bigs are avg
Nunge 33.9%
Garza 33.3%

even the top 4 scorers are within 4 points of each other
Cook 15.3
Bohannon 13..2
Garza 11.8
Moss 11.3
three SO and 1 FR make up the top 4

so its a matter of who is playing with who.

 

[B-Westy]

Freshman team is 4 big men and a forward? Not happening. Davison and Frazier will both be on it. Especially considering Davison got a runner-up nod.

Ok.

 

[nitewing]

Please respond to what I’m saying and not spout useless facts. Who would you rather have as your teams point guard, Cash or Bohannon.

Bohannon as he means more to a team, Bohannon has shown he can score in a hurry and effectively, as for that foot injury it slowed him down and affected his shooting.

I am not being a homer either. you need to look at the big picture. that includes the players on each team.

 

[MGC_07]

Bohannon as he means more to a team, Bohannon has shown he can score in a hurry and effectively, as for that foot injury it slowed him down and affected his shooting.

I am not being a homer either. you need to look at the big picture. that includes the players on each team.

Yeah, good thing he means more to his 12th place in Big Ten team.

 

[bMORE607]

I am not being a homer either.

 

[Jaycg15]

Ok.

That's about the most we can expect from you. Good job.

 

[nitewing]

these are not worthless stats either as they show the big picture.

not just a selected corner like you are doing.
Bridges and JJJ take a lot of the heat off Winston, plus having a pair of 1st Round NBA picks playing with him can and does make someone look better.

 

[jwardelt]

I think we can all agree that this board deserves to watch Purdue lose in the round of 32.

Along with MSU, Michigan and OSU.

 

[Jaycg15]

Ok.

Livers averaged 4.6 PPG, 1.9 TRB, .4 APG, .3 SPG, and .3 BPG, but by all means your opinion is beyond reproach. LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

 

[BANGBRO]

Laughing are you still hating?

Winston's national rankings:

#9 Offensive Rating in NCAA
#5 Total Assists in NCAA
#4 True Shooting % in NCAA
#10 Assists Per Game in NCAA
#3 Assist% in NCAA
#3 Offensive Box Plus/Minus in NCAA

And he shot over 56% from 3, on 4 attempts per game.

No hate. My eyes don’t deceive me and I’ve watched a lot of big ten ball this year. Cassius has great vision, is crafty and a good shooter. However, he’s just very slow and incredibly limited athletically. Hell never be a good defender. MSU fans take things too personally. You have the most talent in the BIG, but if Cassius as he is right now is your conferences best pg then the conference is having a very down year for pg play

 

[CardinalBoiler]

This is my ballot FWIW:

POY: KBD/C Edwards... leaning Edwards because I'm a homer.
COY: Holtmann
FOY: JJJ
DPOY: JJJ
6th Man: Haarms

1st Team:
KBD
Carsen Edwards
James Palmer Jr
Miles Bridges
Tony Carr

2nd Team
Ethan Happ
Juwan Morgan
Vince Edwards
Isaac Haas
Cassius Winston

3rd Team
Nick Ward
MAAR
JJJ
Dakota Mathias
Mo Wagner

Freshman Team:
JJJ
Matt Haarms
Bruno Fernando
Isaiah Livers
Luke Garza

Have to imagine you just confused Livers and Poole for your Frosh team.

 

[nitewing]

name just 1 other player that has = or done better than Bohannon in the last 25 years.

OH WAIT nobody can as Bohannon is the ONLY PLAYER reguardless of position to post 85 + MADE 3 pointers and post 150 assists as a FR then as a SO

as a FR he was just 1 of 2 FR PG's in the previous 25 years to post 85+ made 3's and have 175 assists.

right now after 31 games he has 88 made 3's and 167 assists,

 

[MGC_07]

No hate. My eyes don’t deceive me and I’ve watched a lot of big ten ball this year. Cassius has great vision, is crafty and a good shooter. However, he’s just very slow and incredibly limited athletically. Hell never be a good defender. MSU fans take things too personally. You have the most talent in the BIG, but if Cassius as he is right now is your conferences best pg then the conference is having a very down year for pg play

He has taken huge strides defensively, and speed, while important, doesn’t matter too much. It’s all about how effectively you can change speeds to create room, which he does extremely well. His defense is the reason we are on this winstreak. I think after he got abused in the UM game something happened, because he’s gone from a liability to an average defender.

 

[MGC_07]

name just 1 other player that has = or done better than Bohannon in the last 25 years.

OH WAIT nobody can as Bohannon is the ONLY PLAYER reguardless of position to post 85 + MADE 3 pointers and post 150 assists as a FR then as a SO

as a FR he was just 1 of 2 FR PG's in the previous 25 years to post 85+ made 3's and have 175 assists.

right now after 31 games he has 88 made 3's and 167 assists,

Nitewing, that was last year. This is this year. I couldn’t care less what he did last year. I’m asking right now, who is better. If you honestly think Bohannon, you are even mor of a homer than I thought possible.

 

[bMORE607]

name just 1 other player that has = or done better than Bohannon in the last 25 years.

OH WAIT nobody can as Bohannon is the ONLY PLAYER reguardless of position to post 85 + MADE 3 pointers and post 150 assists as a FR then as a SO

as a FR he was just 1 of 2 FR PG's in the previous 25 years to post 85+ made 3's and have 175 assists.

right now after 31 games he has 88 made 3's and 167 assists,

Who gives a shit about how many 3s hes made.

 

[BANGBRO]

He has taken huge strides defensively, and speed, while important, doesn’t matter too much. It’s all about how effectively you can change speeds to create room, which he does extremely well. His defense is the reason we are on this winstreak. I think after he got abused in the UM game something happened, because he’s gone from a liability to an average defender.

We’ll see...I’m not high on Cassius or Langford (I thought he’d be the best one from that monster class of yours and he’s greatly underachieved). Cassius is like a game managing qb. You could obviously do a lot worse than him, but I don’t think he has the ability to ever be a game breaker. He just doesn’t have elite level ability in anything other than headiness

 

[Mgkcbb]

Surprised that Davison was runner-up over Frazier. Frazier was the superior player in almost every category except rebounding and free throws.

I forget about the players on the bad teams sometimes. Fraziers dope just forgot about him.

 

[MGC_07]

We’ll see...I’m not high on Cassius or Langford (I thought he’d be the best one from that monster class of yours and he’s greatly underachieved). Cassius is like a game managing qb. You could obviously do a lot worse than him, but I don’t think he has the ability to ever be a game breaker. He just doesn’t have elite level ability in anything other than headiness

Uhh, I’d say he is an elite shooter. He is literally shooting 56% from 3 through the whole season. And he is definitely an elite playmaker. Not quite sure what you are saying there.

 

[B-Westy]

Have to imagine you just confused Livers and Poole for your Frosh team.

Admittedly I didn't look too hard into the freshman numbers.

I'd add Frazier & Davidson & take off Livers & Garza.

 

[Mgkcbb]

JJJ doesn’t deserve 1st team. He had a good year but not 1st team good.

He lead the conference in blocks by a country mile. When he was on the court, teams scored less points per possession than when anyone else who got regular mins was on the court in the entire conference on any team.

Oh, and he had a 124.6 ORtg on 22.7 usage in conference play while posting the highest True Shooting % of anyone in the entire conference in conference play.

He was an absolute 2 way dump truck over the course of 18 conference games.

 

[Jaycg15]

Surprised that Davison was runner-up over Frazier. Frazier was the superior player in almost every category except rebounding and free throws.

I forget about the players on the bad teams sometimes. Fraziers dope just forgot about him.

There is some merit to comparing similar players and weighing wins more heavily, but any team with Happ is going to win some games.

 

[MileHighSpartan]

No hate. My eyes don’t deceive me and I’ve watched a lot of big ten ball this year. Cassius has great vision, is crafty and a good shooter. However, he’s just very slow and incredibly limited athletically. Hell never be a good defender. MSU fans take things too personally. You have the most talent in the BIG, but if Cassius as he is right now is your conferences best pg then the conference is having a very down year for pg play

Must be a down year in all of college basketball for PG's then, if he's Top-10 in those 5+ major stats you quoted.

 

[jwardelt]

Who gives a shit about how many 3s hes made.

More curious on how many he's given up.

 

[MGC_07]

He lead the conference in blocks by a country mile. When he was on the court, teams scored less points per possession than when anyone else who got regular mins was on the court in the entire conference on any team.

Oh, and he had a 124.6 ORtg on 22.7 usage in conference play while posting the highest True Shooting % of anyone in the entire conference in conference play.

He was an absolute 2 way dump truck over the course of 18 conference games.

Precisely what I’m saying. He is our best player.

 

[bMORE607]

Thread is officially off the rails

 

[Mgkcbb]

But according to Matt a team of
Junior Cash
Senior Quaido
Junior Josh Langford
Senior Kenny Goins (possibly Sophmore X, but probably not because of spacing)
Junior Nick Ward
Will finish 10th in the Big Ten.

Matt McQuaid and Josh Langfords combined stats yesterday

40 mins played. 5 points. 3 rebounds.
1 assist. 3 turnovers.


They are going to get destroyed routinely next season. How anyone can think any team that is forced to start those 2 turds is going to finish top 3 in this conference next year is beyond me.

Have to be an absolute troll or braindead slappy to make that argument.

 

[BANGBRO]

Uhh, I’d say he is an elite shooter. He is literally shooting 56% from 3 through the whole season. And he is definitely an elite playmaker. Not quite sure what you are saying there.

Elite playmaker falls in line with headiness. He’s smart and crafty with good court vision and ability to pass. His shooting is more a byproduct of teams not having the ability to overguard him as you currently have too many other offensive threats. If his percentage looks like that next year when he’s your offenses focal point then I’ll concede that he’s an elite shooter. But right now he’s getting a ton of open looks, so I can’t crown him with an “elite shooter” title yet

 

[nitewing]

Who gives a shit about how many 3s hes made.

they are a good indicator just like his assists, as for last year it just shows how much he has improved inspite of a severe foot injury.
41.6% from 3 with Jok on the team
42.9% from 3 without Jok

last season teams focused on stopping Jok
this season teams focused on stopping Bohannon
and yet he still posted better stats being the focus of the other teams defenses.

this is another aspect of the game that you choose to ignore.

its who draws the most attention on defense, like I said MSU has Bridges and JJJ that teams game plan their defenses for. NOT Winston so he has free rein to do what he wants with out much defensive pressure put on him.

 

[jwardelt]

This is my ballot FWIW:

POY: KBD/C Edwards... leaning Edwards because I'm a homer.
COY: Holtmann
FOY: JJJ
DPOY: JJJ
6th Man: Haarms

1st Team:
KBD
Carsen Edwards
James Palmer Jr
Miles Bridges
Tony Carr

2nd Team
Ethan Happ
Juwan Morgan
Vince Edwards
Isaac Haas
Cassius Winston

3rd Team
Nick Ward
MAAR
JJJ
Dakota Mathias
Mo Wagner

Freshman Team:
JJJ
Matt Haarms
Bruno Fernando
Isaiah Livers
Luke Garza

Davison will be on all freshman team. Livers? GTFO.

 

[BANGBRO]

Matt McQuaid and Josh Langfords combined stats yesterday

40 mins played. 5 points. 3 rebounds.
1 assist. 3 turnovers.


They are going to get destroyed routinely next season. How anyone can think any team that is forced to start those 2 turds is going to finish top 3 in this conference next year is beyond me.

Have to be an absolute troll or braindead slappy to make that argument.

They’re fans...I will say that MSU fans on this board tend to be the biggest homers. I criticize Michigan players to death and recognize their respective weaknesses, but spartan fans act like you just slapped their mother if you call out any of their players obvious flaws

 

[B-Westy]

Davison will be on all freshman team. Livers? GTFO.

Eat my ass.

 

[Mgkcbb]

Matt McQuaid and Josh Langfords combined stats yesterday

40 mins played. 5 points. 3 rebounds.
1 assist. 3 turnovers.


They are going to get destroyed routinely next season. How anyone can think any team that is forced to start those 2 turds is going to finish top 3 in this conference next year is beyond me.

Have to be an absolute troll or braindead slappy to make that argument.

And to add to this - Brad Davison scored 30 points on those awful MSU guards. He didnt do it running hot on 3s either.

He was 7/12 on 2 pointers. That tells you everything you need to know about what Ive been trying to tell you about the MSU guards and their defensive woes.

Only one other game all year has Davison made more than 3 2 point field goals and it was against Green Bay.

 

[bMORE607]

They’re fans...I will say that MSU fans on this board tend to be the biggest homers. I criticize Michigan players to death and recognize their respective weaknesses, but spartan fans act like you just slapped their mother if you call out any of their players obvious flaws

Being drunk this early on a Monday isn’t good.

 

[MGC_07]

Matt McQuaid and Josh Langfords combined stats yesterday

40 mins played. 5 points. 3 rebounds.
1 assist. 3 turnovers.


They are going to get destroyed routinely next season. How anyone can think any team that is forced to start those 2 turds is going to finish top 3 in this conference next year is beyond me.

Have to be an absolute troll or braindead slappy to make that argument.

Very picky chosey, but I’ll bite. Matt McQuaid is a very solid wing defender and is shooting great in Big Ten play. Langford, hey a man can dream, but don’t test me about the other 2. Lenny has been consistently a very good backup and has hit clutch shots twice. He plays great pick and roll defense and great overall defense. Cash is a baller and Ward is great. No way this team finishes anywhere close to tenth

 

[jwardelt]

Eat my ass.

 

[MGC_07]

And to add to this - Brad Davison scored 30 points on those awful MSU guards. He didnt do it running hot on 3s either.

He was 7/12 on 2 pointers. That tells you everything you need to know about what Ive been trying to tell you about the MSU guards and their defensive woes.

Only one other game all year has Davison made more than 3 2 point field goals and it was against Green Bay.

Did you watch the game? He literally had the game of his life. He could not miss, even with a hand straight in his face.

 

[Mgkcbb]

They’re fans...I will say that MSU fans on this board tend to be the biggest homers. I criticize Michigan players to death and recognize their respective weaknesses, but spartan fans act like you just slapped their mother if you call out any of their players obvious flaws

There is no argument to be made that McQuaod and Langford are good starters.

For the 2nd season in a row now, Langford has been a net negative player in conference play. It is impossible to justify any argument that treats him as a good player. It is blatant trolling.

I struggle to think of any team in the conference that would have worse wings than the McQuaid/Langford duo next season.

 

[MGC_07]

And to add to this - Brad Davison scored 30 points on those awful MSU guards. He didnt do it running hot on 3s either.

He was 7/12 on 2 pointers. That tells you everything you need to know about what Ive been trying to tell you about the MSU guards and their defensive woes.

Only one other game all year has Davison made more than 3 2 point field goals and it was against Green Bay.

I like money. I will do a bet with you that next year MSU finishes 7 or higher. You in

 

[jwardelt]

Did you watch the game? He literally had the game of his life. He could not miss, even with a hand straight in his face.

Hand in the face hasn't stopped him. He's made a bunch of shots like that this year. I'd also say Cassius had the game of his life. He really couldn't miss.

Also 10-19 isn't "couldn't miss".

7-11 is much closer to couldn't miss than Davison.

6-6 from 3 for Cass vs 3-7 for Davison.

 

[bMORE607]

@KisteK going to catch up on this shit storm in like a week and be like