Nice win for Allen Fieldhouse

[Turinturumbar]

Wait a minute...you talking about the same Bill Self that was the coach for tournament games lost to Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa, VCU, blew a 10 point lead in Final minutes to Michigan, lost to Stanford, Wichita St, got their doors blown off by Auburn, USC...

We talkin' about that dude?? Do those facts matter, or only yours?!

The same VCU team that beat a lot of good teams? Yes. That was the only one that officiating played a part.

KU didn’t blow a lead against Michigan. Trey Burke went bananas and hit like 6 threes in a row, most guarded and a couple from 15 + feet behind the three point line. That wasn’t a choke job, that was an act of god.

USC was a bad matchup, Auburn was a much better team than KU and not a surprise. Stanford we played a team with two 7 footers and our All American future NBA all star who was the only reason we were even ranked was out with injury. Anybody could have predicted that loss.

The others were good old fashioned choke jobs. But hey, at least Self has yet to lose to a 2 seed. Surely Calipari knows nothing about upsets.

 

[mcnicKY91]

The same VCU team that beat a lot of good teams? Yes. That was the only one that officiating played a part.

KU didn’t blow a lead against Michigan. Trey Burke went bananas and hit like 6 threes in a row, most guarded and a couple from 15 + feet behind the three point line. That wasn’t a choke job, that was an act of god.

USC was a bad matchup, Auburn was a much better team than KU and not a surprise. Stanford we played a team with two 7 footers and our All American future NBA all star who was the only reason we were even ranked was out with injury. Anybody could have predicted that loss.

The others were good old fashioned choke jobs. But hey, at least Self has yet to lose to a 2 seed. Surely Calipari knows nothing about upsets.

Sounds like a boatload of excuses for losses...maybe the great Bill Self, in all his infinite coaching wisdom, should have actually double teamed Trey Burke instead of letting him go off...you know, make someone else beat you. Self choked that game, nothing more nothing less.

Who said anything about Calipari in this thread? Of course he has choked...choked against WV in 2011, Wisconsin in 2015, K St in 2018, Auburn 2019, St Peters...not hard to admit, at all.

 

[mcnicKY91]

“Coach K wouldn’t have made a difference because he lost to Lehigh and Mercer! Where was the great K in those games? Bob Knight wouldn’t have made a difference because he only got past the 2nd round about 30% of the time at Indiana. My logic is sound!”

How do you people tie your shoes? 🤣

Cool.

 

[mcnicKY91]

No. Just check the foul disparities over the season. KU finishes in the bottom half of the Big XII pretty much every year. Yes those calls your way at times at home, but what you don’t realize is those calls go against us on the road. We are always playing in front of a sold out crowd on the road and constantly get beat up. And still usually win.

I don’t know about you , but I’d say Self being out was a big factor.

We can agree to disagree. Same thing I told the other KU fan...although he didn't take that too well for some reason lol.

 

[MGO2022]

@Courtsensetwo

 

[Courtsensetwo]

@Courtsensetwo

@MGO2022

 

[I am stupid]

@I am stupid

 

[IUfanBorden]

IMO, no way is that called a flagrant in any other Big 12 building.

You don't really believe this , do you?

 

[ExitFlagger]

You don't really believe this , do you?

The entire board believes it. 🤣

 

[boilerzz]

You don't really believe this , do you?

Do you think refs aren’t impacted by the environment?

 

[IUfanBorden]

Do you think refs aren’t impacted by the environment?

For the most part, no---I don't. I think they can be impacted by coaches, yes. TBH man, and speaking for myself here---I rarely here the noise. I'm to focused trying to do my job. And even when I've made a call, and had the boo birds come hailing down, you just really don't pay attention to that. These guys have worked hundreds upon hundreds of games in thse type of environemnts….I highly doubt they get intimidated, overwhelmed by the fans.

 

[ThePhog08]

Any impact to the neck or head, intentional or not is a flagrant 1. To argue is to be a ignorant 1

 

[IUfanBorden]

Do you think refs aren’t impacted by the environment?

Here is the one common thing I was told/taught when I started working college baseball/basketball: Almost anyone can call ball/stike, out or safe....Call a fouls, etc....But what separates the good from the "bad" so to speak, is can you manage the wnvironments, and/or the coaches. And not everyone can.

When those 3 guys decided to call an F1 the other night @ Purdue---you don't think they knew what was coming? Sure they did. BUT----they felt they were right, and didn't let how the fans were gonna react, influence what they felt was right.

If this call happened in a game with TCU/Iowa state, we wouldn't hear a peep. BUT---it involves a team that people love to hate----KU. Same if it had been UK or Duke. People love to hate those 3 teams. They just do. So when something like this happens, well...………….

 

[ExitFlagger]

Do you think refs aren’t impacted by the environment?

I can only assume you’ve never watched KU play in Manhattan or Ames before? Or Morgantown, or…pretty much any B12 venue?

 

[kyjeff1]

Any impact to the neck or head, intentional or not is a flagrant 1. To argue is to be a ignorant 1

I believe that was the rule 2 years ago, I've seen a bunch of above the neck contact viewed as 'a basketball play' after a monitor review the last 2 seasons.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Here is the one common thing I was told/taught when I started working college baseball/basketball: Almost anyone can call ball/stike, out or safe....Call a fouls, etc....But what separates the good from the "bad" so to speak, is can you manage the wnvironments, and/or the coaches. And not everyone can. When those 3 guys decided to call an F1 the other night @ Purdue---you don't think they knew what was coming? Sure they did. BUT----they felt they were right, and didn't let how the fans were gonna react, influence what they felt was right. If this call happened in a game with TCU/Iowa state, we wouldn't hear a peep. BUT---it involves a team that people love to hate----KU. Same if it had been UK or Duke. People love to hate those 3 teams. They just do. So when something like this happens, well...………….

Not to mention, that was probably the quietest I’ve heard Allen Fieldhouse in years.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Meh, depending on which side I was on, I'd probably be pissed either way.

 

[TechFan88]

Not to mention, that was probably the quietest I’ve heard Allen Fieldhouse in years.

Kansas fans only get loud for blue bloods, Kansas St, Baylor, Iowa St, and Texas Tech.

I mean TCU fans don’t get excited to see TCU.

 

[Turinturumbar]

Sounds like a boatload of excuses for losses...maybe the great Bill Self, in all his infinite coaching wisdom, should have actually double teamed Trey Burke instead of letting him go off...you know, make someone else beat you. Self choked that game, nothing more nothing less.

Who said anything about Calipari in this thread? Of course he has choked...choked against WV in 2011, Wisconsin in 2015, K St in 2018, Auburn 2019, St Peters...not hard to admit, at all.

He did double Trey. Trey hit the game winner off of a moving screen that got him a little space 20 feet behind the three point line. Trey was in god mode that night my friend. Nobody was stopping him. Never seen anything like it.

 

[mcnicKY91]

He did double Trey. Trey hit the game winner off of a moving screen that got him a little space 20 feet behind the three point line. Trey was in god mode that night my friend. Nobody was stopping him. Never seen anything like it.

I watched the highlights of this game...Burke was going one on one the last 5 min of regulation and all throughout OT. Out of all the plays he made, I only saw one double team.

Either KU was guarding him 1-1, or a screen was set for Burke to enable a switch, in which a second guy/the guy who was screened for KU never went back to double team. Take a look below and watch from the 9 min mark to the end (only about 4 min of actual viewing)...you let me know where all these double teams are, cuz I ain't seeing 'em.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

I watched the highlights of this game...Burke was going one on one the last 5 min of regulation and all throughout OT. Out of all the plays he made, I only saw one double team.

Either KU was guarding him 1-1, or a screen was set for Burke to enable a switch, in which a second guy for KU never went back to resume the double teaming. Take a look below and watch from the 9 min mark to the end (only about 4 min of actual viewing)...you let me know where all these double teams are, cuz I ain't seeing 'em.

View embedded media

Johnson with an open layup opportunity with 4 secs left to send it to 2 OT but instead passes it out for a 3, lol.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Johnson with an open layup opportunity with 4 secs left to send it to 2 OT but instead passes it out for a 3, lol.

Haha...that was one of the first things I thought when re-watching those highlights. Definitely an entertaining finish, but yes, spot on, have no idea what Johnson was thinking.

I am assuming the play was for him to wrap around the screen and drive to the hoop and then kick out...but where is the self awareness?! Not like you have to stick to the play call when an exponentially better opportunity presents itself. Game should have gone to double OT.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Haha...that was one of the first things I thought when re-watching those highlights. Definitely an entertaining finish, but yes, spot on, have no idea what Johnson was thinking.

I am assuming the play was for him to wrap around the screen and drive to the hoop and then kick out...but where is the self awareness?! Not like you have to stick to the play call when an exponentially better opportunity presents itself. Game should have gone to double OT.

Yep, I assume he was sticking to the play call but damn dude.... you had a freebie to keep the game going. 🤣

 

[Turinturumbar]

I watched the highlights of this game...Burke was going one on one the last 5 min of regulation and all throughout OT. Out of all the plays he made, I only saw one double team.

Either KU was guarding him 1-1, or a screen was set for Burke to enable a switch, in which a second guy/the guy who was screened for KU never went back to double team. Take a look below and watch from the 9 min mark to the end (only about 4 min of actual viewing)...you let me know where all these double teams are, cuz I ain't seeing 'em.

View embedded media

They doubled him within reason. No they didn't double him 10 feet behind the line. Who would? You double that far back and you give up an easy 2. Most coaches are going to come to the normally good conclusion that a player can't keep hitting such shots.

Even when he was 1-1, he usually had a hand right in his face. We had our best defender on him. Would it have really mattered if he's got two hands in his face? The dude was unstoppable. Best stretch I've ever seen shooting the ball. The best team performance I've seen is either the Oregon Elite Eight game or the Villanova Final Four game, but best individual performance was Trey, and it isn't close after that.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

They doubled him within reason. No they didn't double him 10 feet behind the line. Who would? You double that far back and you give up an easy 2. Most coaches are going to come to the normally good conclusion that a player can't keep hitting such shots.

Even when he was 1-1, he usually had a hand right in his face. We had our best defender on him. Would it have really mattered if he's got two hands in his face? The dude was unstoppable. Best stretch I've ever seen shooting the ball. The best team performance I've seen is either the Oregon Elite Eight game or the Villanova Final Four game, but best individual performance was Trey, and it isn't close after that.

He was only 9-21 from the field and 4-11 from 3 against Kansas. It's not like he went Christian Laettner mode in the '92 Elite Eight.

 

[ExitFlagger]

IMO, no way is that called a flagrant in any other Big 12 building.

Thoughts on the 46-8 FT disparity last night in Mackey Arena?

No way does that happen in any other building. See how easy that is? 😆

 

[mcnicKY91]

Thoughts on the 46-8 FT disparity last night in Mackey Arena?

No way does that happen in any other building. See how easy that is? 😆

Dude...I obviously wasn't watching any of that game as it overlapped with UK/UF...but how can that possibly happen?

I am sure at the end NW fouled a few times to prolong the game, but that doesn't take away from the overall disparity.

Just saw a stat that UK has attempted around 380 FTs this year...Edey himself has shot 230.

Officiating sucks in general. These guys determine games on a nightly basis. I would have been tossed a lot earlier than Chris Collins was if I was coaching NW.

 

[boilerzz]

Thoughts on the 46-8 FT disparity last night in Mackey Arena?

No way does that happen in any other building. See how easy that is? 😆

Some clear thoughts:

1) Purdue shot 10 free throws in the final 29 seconds after NW started intentional fouling
2) Chris Collins actually mentioned in his media availability early in the week that his team had 3 centers and thus 15 fouls to give when guarding Zach Edey. So his plan was to hack Edey.
3) NW is one of the more perimeter oriented teams in the country. They shot 27 threes last night. This is a big reason why they are 312th nationally in free throw rate.
4) On the flip side, NW under Collins recognizes that because of talent differential or whatever, they have to play physical. Thus, they are 327th nationally in defensive free throw rate
5) Purdue plays through the post more than any other team in the country. It's why Purdue is 14th nationally in free throw rate
6) Purdue does not play an attacking defense meant to generate turnovers. Hell, we are 285th nationally in generating steals. As such, Purdue is 8th nationally in lowest defensive free throw rate

 

[mcnicKY91]

Some clear thoughts:

1) Purdue shot 10 free throws in the final 29 seconds after NW started intentional fouling
2) Chris Collins actually mentioned in his media availability early in the week that his team had 3 centers and thus 15 fouls to give when guarding Zach Edey. So his plan was to hack Edey.
3) NW is one of the more perimeter oriented teams in the country. They shot 27 threes last night. This is a big reason why they are 312th nationally in free throw rate.
4) On the flip side, NW under Collins recognizes that because of talent differential or whatever, they have to play physical. Thus, they are 327th nationally in defensive free throw rate
5) Purdue plays through the post more than any other team in the country. It's why Purdue is 14th nationally in free throw rate
6) Purdue does not play an attacking defense meant to generate turnovers. Hell, we are 285th nationally in generating steals. As such, Purdue is 8th nationally in lowest defensive free throw rate

Dude...Purdue shot 21 3s, NW 27...not like NW shot 35 and Purdue shot 10 or less.

You are doing an awful lot of mental gymnastics to try and explain away the disparity...guarantee you wouldn't be doing that if the roles were reversed.

 

[boilerzz]

Dude...Purdue shot 21 3s, NW 27...not like NW shot 35 and Purdue shot 10 or less.

You are doing an awful lot of mental gymnastics to try and explain away the disparity...guarantee you wouldn't be doing that if the roles were reversed.

Depends if I watched the game. Did you watch the game last night or are you just being box score guy?

 

[mcnicKY91]

Depends if I watched the game. Did you watch the game last night or are you just being box score guy?

Nope, already said I didn't watch as UK/UF overlapped.

NW got screwed, you can admit it. If this happened to PU in a tournament game or against IU, you would be enraged (and rightfully so).

In their first game at Evanston, PU only shot 9 more free throws. Yet last night, they shoot almost 40 more. That's a joke dude. I am sorry. No team has any fair chance at winning when the other team has a parade of free throw shooters.

Why did Collins get thrown out?

 

[boilerzz]

Nope, already said I didn't watch as UK/UF overlapped.

NW got screwed, you can admit it. If this happened to PU in a tournament game or against IU, you would be enraged (and rightfully so).

In their first game at Evanston, PU only shot 9 more free throws. Yet last night, they shoot almost 40 more. That's a joke dude. I am sorry. No team has any fair chance at winning when the other team has a parade of free throw shooters.

Why did Collins get thrown out?

I suggest you watch the game and then come back. Then, maybe we can have a conversation with appropriate context.

 

[mcnicKY91]

I suggest you watch the game and then come back. Then, maybe we can have a conversation with appropriate context.

Why on Earth would I want to rewatch a game where one team shoots 46 FTs? Sounds like and absolute snoozefest.

To put things in perspective for you....Edey has shot 230 FTs this year. UK as a whole, has shot 380.

And UK is one of the most athletic teams in the country. Reeves, Dillingham, Sheppard, and Wagner are constantly driving to the paint....constantly. Very mind boggling to say the least.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Some clear thoughts:

1) Purdue shot 10 free throws in the final 29 seconds after NW started intentional fouling
2) Chris Collins actually mentioned in his media availability early in the week that his team had 3 centers and thus 15 fouls to give when guarding Zach Edey. So his plan was to hack Edey.
3) NW is one of the more perimeter oriented teams in the country. They shot 27 threes last night. This is a big reason why they are 312th nationally in free throw rate.
4) On the flip side, NW under Collins recognizes that because of talent differential or whatever, they have to play physical. Thus, they are 327th nationally in defensive free throw rate
5) Purdue plays through the post more than any other team in the country. It's why Purdue is 14th nationally in free throw rate
6) Purdue does not play an attacking defense meant to generate turnovers. Hell, we are 285th nationally in generating steals. As such, Purdue is 8th nationally in lowest defensive free throw rate

When it's your own team, there's always a great explanation. 😆

 

[ExitFlagger]

I suggest you watch the game and then come back. Then, maybe we can have a conversation with appropriate context.

So do you watch every Big 12 game start to finish every year?

I'm totally sure this would be your take on a 46-8 disparity in Allen Fieldhouse.

 

[boilerzz]

So do you watch every Big 12 game start to finish every year?

I'm totally sure this would be your take on a 46-8 disparity in Allen Fieldhouse.

Nope. I watch a lot of college basketball tho. And it's frustrating the inconsistency exhibited by officials. Some let a lot go in the paint and some call a lot on the perimeter. And then sometimes they flip script mid game. It can be maddening as a fan so I imagine it has to be wildly maddening as a player and coach.

But that has very little to do with the discussion at hand. So I'll ask you. Did yo watch the game last night or are you just being box score guy too?


When I made the OP, I freely admit there was some hyperbole in there. But I also watch a stupid amount of college basketball and have for nearly 50 years. I firmly believe that anecdotally certain blueblood schools get favorable officiating when playing in their home arenas that most other schools don't enjoy. I admit there could be some bias at play in that opinion as that is human nature.

But I'd never be box score guy without actually watching a game. That's just lazy and misinformed.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Nope. I watch a lot of college basketball tho. And it's frustrating the inconsistency exhibited by officials. Some let a lot go in the paint and some call a lot on the perimeter. And then sometimes they flip script mid game. It can be maddening as a fan so I imagine it has to be wildly maddening as a player and coach.

But that has very little to do with the discussion at hand. So I'll ask you. Did yo watch the game last night or are you just being box score guy too?

When I made the OP, I freely admit there was some hyperbole in there. But I also watch a stupid amount of college basketball and have for nearly 50 years. I firmly believe that anecdotally certain blueblood schools get favorable officiating when playing in their home arenas that most other schools don't enjoy. I admit there could be some bias at play in that opinion as that is human nature.

But I'd never be box score guy without actually watching a game. That's just lazy and misinformed.

No, I didn't watch the game. I'm also not claiming that there was a ref bias. Just having a laugh at the hypocrisy.

Your take on AFH is much lazier than questioning a 46-8 disparity. Home teams tend to get calls, especially in raucous environments. That's really all there is to it. People zero in on 1 or 2 questionable calls per year and want to turn it into an annual agenda/conspiracy. What could be lazier than that? Especially when it's not even supported by numbers.

There are controversial calls/no-calls in nearly every game, but somehow you're convinced that it only happens in one building. Make it make sense.

 

[boilerzz]

No, I didn't watch the game. I'm also not claiming that there was a ref bias. Just having a laugh at the hypocrisy.

Your take on AFH is much lazier than questioning a 46-8 disparity. Home teams tend to get calls, especially in raucous environments. That's really all there is to it. People zero in on 1 or 2 questionable calls per year and want to turn it into an annual agenda/conspiracy. What could be lazier than that? Especially when it's not even supported by numbers.

There are controversial calls/no-calls in nearly every game, but somehow you're convinced that it only happens in one building. Make it make sense.

You're right. I was over the top in the heat of the moment.

 

[954gator]

Was definitely an awful call. Seems every year there are some really questionable calls late in games in that place. They are good enough without the help.

It's happening everywhere. People just notice the games in the bigger venues because more people are watching.

 

[coryfly]

It's happening everywhere. People just notice the games in the bigger venues because more people are watching.

It does. UNC got screwed the other night when RJ was fouled and I have zero doubt that if they would have been at home they would have gotten the call (and they have certainly benefitted from calls in the past). I just think officials let the crowd impact them a lot, and I'm not saying I wouldn't, and many of them are just too old to keep up with the speed and athleticism involved in the game today.