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NCAA Commission on College Basketball

Gates and Zuckerberg did attend college. They didn't get a degree. You argued that you shouldn't be in college if your goal is not to get a degree. And also, just to be honest, I am in the tech field and made a similar decision as Gates and Zuckerberg (of course on a much smaller level) when I was that age. Best decision I ever made. I did learn in college. Glad I went. I didn't need a degree. If I was a doctor, I would've had no choice but to spend a cool 100k on med school in order to get started. Luckily, I didn't have that hurdle. Some people do.

Again, my point in all of this is, the idea that the NCAA cares if these kids get a degree is laughable if they actually believe the end goal is foster educated and successful people. Why would the NCAA be against anyone attending school for any amount of time if this was their goal?
Were Gates and Zuckerberg pursung a degree and earnestly applying themselves for academic studies? I doubt they were just biding time oblivious to the educational challenge. If they determined they had skills that college wouldn't enhance fine, but they had to discover that. Hoops players already know their skills. In short, your analogy fails.
 
Were Gates and Zuckerberg pursung a degree and earnestly applying themselves for academic studies? I doubt they were just biding time oblivious to the educational challenge. If they determined they had skills that college wouldn't enhance fine, but they had to discover that. Hoops player already know their skills. In short, your analogy fails.

It makes no difference if they earnestly applied themselves. Most people don't apply themselves to academic studies. They do the minimal possible so they can do what they want the rest of the time. And for all you know, they did apply themselves. It's really none of your business.

And no, basketball players do learn about basketball in college. So, your attempt to destroy my analogy fails.

And if you didn't notice, the entire debate is ridiculous. And that's kind of my point.
 
Gates and Zuckerberg did attend college. They didn't get a degree. You argued that you shouldn't be in college if your goal is not to get a degree. And also, just to be honest, I am in the tech field and made a similar decision as Gates and Zuckerberg (of course on a much smaller level) when I was that age. Best decision I ever made. I did learn in college. Glad I went. I didn't need a degree. If I was a doctor, I would've had no choice but to spend a cool 100k on med school in order to get started. Luckily, I didn't have that hurdle. Some people do.

Again, my point in all of this is, the idea that the NCAA cares if these kids get a degree is laughable if they actually believe the end goal is foster educated and successful people. Why would the NCAA be against anyone attending school for any amount of time if this was their goal?
they don't care about the 1 n Dones but when a school has a emrollment 25,000 to 40,000 they could care less about a Player that is taking the place of some one that actually wants to be there. then its a problem.

remember it was the NBA that forced this 1 n Done down the colleges throats.
 
It makes no difference if they earnestly applied themselves. Most people don't apply themselves to academic studies. They do the minimal possible so they can do what they want the rest of the time. And for all you know, they did apply themselves. It's really none of your business.

And no, basketball players do learn about basketball in college. So, your attempt to destroy my analogy fails.

And if you didn't notice, the entire debate is ridiculous. And that's kind of my point.
Pretty sure most people on scholarship apply themselves, and if they don't, shame on them. Whatever players might learn about basketball is independent of the school's educational mission.
 
they don't care about the 1 n Dones but when a school has a emrollment 25,000 to 40,000 they could care less about a Player that is taking the place of some one that actually wants to be there. then its a problem.

remember it was the NBA that forced this 1 n Done down the colleges throats.

Except that's not a problem. Like at all. We are talking at max 13 players who by playing one year bring in millions of dollars in revenue, allowing for more growth.
 
Pretty sure most people on scholarship apply themselves, and if they don't, shame on them. Whatever players might learn about basketball is independent of the school's educational mission.

On academic scholarship, I'd hope so. But now you're just introducing more illogical fallacies. This is the last one I'll entertain. School's "educational missions" include programs like "adventure education", astrobiology and floral management. You act as if it's crazy to include sports in this list, despite sports tangibly paying high level professionals more.

The experiences and education of a college basketball player at Kentucky are probably one of the best preps for professional basketball that exist anywhere on the planet. It's really no different.
 
Except that's not a problem. Like at all. We are talking at max 13 players who by playing one year bring in millions of dollars in revenue, allowing for more growth.
The revenue would still come in if those players sat out a year or weren't in school.
 
Except that's not a problem. Like at all. We are talking at max 13 players who by playing one year bring in millions of dollars in revenue, allowing for more growth.
you are reaching on that amount. they don't bring in millions. not even close.
 
On academic scholarship, I'd hope so. But now you're just introducing more illogical fallacies. This is the last one I'll entertain. School's "educational missions" include programs like "adventure education", astrobiology and floral management. You act as if it's crazy to include sports in this list, despite sports tangibly paying high level professionals more.

The experiences and education of a college basketball player at Kentucky are probably one of the best preps for professional basketball that exist anywhere on the planet. It's really no different.
Your zest to delink any educational component to an athletic scholarship is really amusing. In your world, I've now gone from an idealist to one indulging in illogical fantasies. Sorry, education should not be regarded as an obstacle, barrier, or encumbrance, as you seem to think. That a school might have some bizarre curriculum options is a matter for its departments to address. However, that doesn't justify the establishment of basketball as a legitimate major. That really wasn't the condition under which the recruit received his scholarship. As has been pointed out, there are career options for fast-tracking this highly lucrative professional basketball field you rhapsodize over. Also, countless baseball players and tennis players have reaped riches without the benefit of sham scholarships. That's a much better parallel than outliers like Gates and Zuckerberg. The geniuses who succeeded despite dropping out of school are no doubt exponentially dwarfed by the crackpot would be entrepreneurs who thought they were geniuses and failed miserably.
 
On academic scholarship, I'd hope so. But now you're just introducing more illogical fallacies. This is the last one I'll entertain. School's "educational missions" include programs like "adventure education", astrobiology and floral management. You act as if it's crazy to include sports in this list, despite sports tangibly paying high level professionals more.

The experiences and education of a college basketball player at Kentucky are probably one of the best preps for professional basketball that exist anywhere on the planet. It's really no different.
Kentucky is not this god like college. every college has their own field that has a impact on the world and its not just athletic related either, for instance
Gene Wilder graduated from the U of Iowa with a degree in theatrics arts and was very influencial in entertainment plus he was a big donor to the U of Iowa.
other colleges can claim the same thing, the world does NOT revolve around Kentucky.
 
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Kentucky is not this god like college. every college has their own field that has a impact on the world and its not just athletic related either, for instance
Gene Wilder graduated from the U of Iowa with a degree in theatrics arts and was very influencial in entertainment plus he was a big donor to the U of Iowa.
other colleges can claim the same thing, the world does NOT revolve around Kentucky.

Uh. Ok. Props to your drama major, but Duke, UNC and Kansas are not any different.
 
The notion that college has to simply be an avenue to a degree is outdated and naive. I think most in academia would take issue with that as well. College is there for us to learn. Some people have to graduate to get a job in a certain field. Some people learn quite a bit and never graduate. While admin would certainly want graduates they understand they provide value to some who never graduate as well. It makes no difference whether it is ideal or not. It is just reality.
 
I love this notion that getting a degree is an antiquated concept but having a school be a nursery for jocks is cutting edge innovation.
 
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Perhaps not overtly, but many are downplaying the focus on actually getting an education and seem to think the one-and-dones is a viable practice.

I don't think most think the OAD is awesome. Most of us think they should be allowed to go straight to the NBA but that is not really an NCAA issue. They are just arguing it isn't always this terrible evil. There is value in one year of college for these guys. Many of them are getting an education and take it seriously while they are there. What we are saying is punishing them or the teams who have them is what is absurd.
 
I mean, that wasn't really their primary defense but it is no surprise some grab that fruit I suppose.

That was UNC's primary defense (it couldn't be impermissible because it was available to everyone and therefore an academic issue and not an athletic one). Unless I missed something.
 
I don't think most think the OAD is awesome. Most of us think they should be allowed to go straight to the NBA but that is not really an NCAA issue. They are just arguing it isn't always this terrible evil. There is value in one year of college for these guys. Many of them are getting an education and take it seriously while they are there. What we are saying is punishing them or the teams who have them is what is absurd.
I'll agree with the right to go immediately to the NBA part. IMO, the NBA is engaging in restraint of trade by foreclosing that option. Disagree with that idea that most OAD's are getting an education. The idea of leaving after one year doesn't mesh with taking your coursework "seriously." I don't blame the kids, but at the same time they shouldn't be hogging a scholarship from a guy who would take his academic challenge seriously..
 
That was UNC's primary defense (it couldn't be impermissible because it was available to everyone and therefore an academic issue and not an athletic one). Unless I missed something.

There primary defense was that it wasn't even in the scope of what the NCAA has a right to get involved with.
 
I'll agree with the right to go immediately to the NBA part. IMO, the NBA is engaging in restraint of trade by foreclosing that option. Disagree with that idea that most OAD's are getting an education. The idea of leaving after one year doesn't mesh with taking your coursework "seriously." I don't blame the kids, but at the same time they shouldn't be hogging a scholarship from a guy who would take his academic challenge seriously..

They aren't taking a scholarship form some who would take his academics seriously. It takes it away from another athlete. You have no idea at all how those two people compare in terms of how they treat their coursework.
 
Why? You'd still have teams playing and fanfare about those games.

Stars sell. Stars draw in casual fans, and that’s what networks bank on when they schedule.

If ESPN and CBS had to run the equivalent of mid tier B1G basketball in their prime time slots, their numbers would be a fraction of what they are currently, and the effects would ripple through ad revenue.
 
They aren't taking a scholarship form some who would take his academics seriously. It takes it away from another athlete. You have no idea at all how those two people compare in terms of how they treat their coursework.
Sure they are taking it away. The guy receiving a scholarship now is almost planned to be going off the next year. It's not too hard to imagine another candidate who would be more likely to stay in school. Not sure exactly what you're saying, but in terms of course work a student/athlete (using the ideal image of that term rather than a liability dodging definition it actually means) is not someone who focuses on his school work for a couple of semesters and than scraps it before he'd even be expected to declare his major.
 
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Stars sell. Stars draw in casual fans, and that’s what networks bank on when they schedule.

If ESPN and CBS had to run the equivalent of mid tier B1G basketball in their prime time slots, their numbers would be a fraction of what they are currently, and the effects would ripple through ad revenue.
The fundamental draw is the teams playing rather than the individuals on a roster. There will always be a college basketball top 25 and clashes between the higher ranked teams will command interest. Stars will be heralded based on how they perform against the competition.
 
I'll agree with the right to go immediately to the NBA part. IMO, the NBA is engaging in restraint of trade by foreclosing that option. Disagree with that idea that most OAD's are getting an education. The idea of leaving after one year doesn't mesh with taking your coursework "seriously." I don't blame the kids, but at the same time they shouldn't be hogging a scholarship from a guy who would take his academic challenge seriously..

I understand what you are saying, but your proposed solution to players not wanting to be in college going to college is not solved by eliminating one and done and I've seen zero evidence that suggests it would eliminate corruption.

Even if the one and done rule were eliminated, you still have borderline lottery picks who will be "forced" to go to college in order to improve their draft ranking who will not "earnestly apply" themselves to academics. Likewise, you will still have a variety of players with marketability at the next level involved with shoe companies and scouts. In reality, we are talking about maybe 10 players a year who are sure fire lottery picks directly out of college.

The NCAA is always going to be in a hypocritical stance as they present the facade that this is about academics when in reality it's about increasing revenue for member institutions. If it were about academics, the NCAA would remove itself from management of football, baseball and basketball and let the programs act like the professional sports teams that these programs are in reality. However, that'd mean the NCAA would lose hundreds of millions of dollars.
 
Sure they are taking it away. The guy receiving a scholarship now is almost planned to be going off the next year. It's not too hard to imagine another candidate who would be more likely to stay in school. Not sure exactly what you're saying, but in terms of course work a student/athlete (using the ideal image of that term rather than a liability dodging definition it actually means) is not someone who focuses on his school work for a couple of semesters and than scraps it before he'd even be expected to declare his major.

What about someone who focuses on it for three years and then goes to the NBA? What is the difference? Those four more semesters? That doesn't make sense. We know some of these guys would never be in college if not for athletics. Heck, it's a much bigger problem in football than basketball. That doesn't mean there isn't value for the student athlete and also for the school.
 
There are a lot of people...and I mean a lot...who go to school when they don't want to. That argument is really a non-starter and I don't have any sympathy for anyone who is "forced" to learn stuff. Like...at all.

Another reason @Silent Banjo is misguided is because he's assuming all one and done players don't care about academics, don't go to class and are unhappy to be in school. However, that's definitely not always the case. Ask Demarcus Cousins if he's happy he went to Kentucky today. It'd probably be a much different response than he would've gave at age 17.

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REGARDLESS, this whole debate isn't about merits of one and done. It's about corruption and the commission's CYA announcement.
 
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