MSU vs UK

[hailtoyourvictor]

And no where does it state that its adjusted for the specific opponent strength. Its based off of an average D1 offense. It SPECIFICALLY states that.

"The raw numbers are computed from the data contained in a box score. But then there’s the matter of adjusting for competition. The "adjusted" numbers (AdjO, AdjD as AdjT) are the results of these calculations."

Adjusting for competition is adjusting for opponent strength.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Further:
The inputs into the pythagorean equation are the team’s adjusted offensive and defensive efficiencies. Any time you see something “adjusted” on this site, it refers to how a team would perform against average competition at a neutral site. For instance, a team’s offensive efficiency (points scored per 100 possessions) is adjusted for the strength of the opposing defenses played. I compute an adjusted offensive efficiency for each game by multiplying the team’s raw offensive efficiency by the national average efficiency and dividing by the opponent’s adjusted defensive efficiency. The adjusted game efficiencies are then averaged (with more weighting to recent games) to produce the final adjusted offensive efficiency.

 

[kyjeff1]

No he isnt lol the definition states
AdjD – Adjusted defensive efficiency – An estimate of the defensive efficiency (points allowed per 100 possessions) a team would have against the average D-I offense.
https://kenpom.com/blog/ratings-glossary/

I guess you'll just have to figure it out through experience.

The rest of us have witnessed it for years. Adjusted O and D account for SOS and what your opponents do in their games. You're just going to have to trust us on that.

 

[Sparty_0n]

Seems they think too much instead of reacting. Didn't really see either sulking or hanging their heads like they've done in the past.

Imagine if we would've gotten Wiseman.



Ehhh idk about that. The game felt more lop-sided to me than the score showed. Not lop-sided, but just felt like we outplayed you guys everywhere, other than rebounding. Our guards were getting to the lane pretty easily. Most of your fouls were because of a faster guard beating his man and your guys trying to recover. We were just more athletic. We usually shoot a lot of FT's because that's the type of kids Cal recruits... long, quick, athletic. They constantly attack and opposing guards usually struggle to stay in front.

I just think our roster, top to bottom, is better. Don't think we got MSU's best by any means. But, our best will most certainly be better as well. Doesn't mean we won't meet in March and you guys get the W. I don't see how one could watch that game and think MSU would take 7/10 though. I don't think they would now, or in 5 months. Both teams have a reason to be excited. Should be a fun year. Good luck the rest of the way.

A lot of valid points here, I agree with most of it but I also want to point out our most athletic player, Aaron Henry, played 2 mins in the first half due to foul trouble.

We'll be a lot better going forward than we were last night. Can't imagine we continue to miss that many open shots.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

@ryanbruner no need to delete your posts:
"No the competition is what the average Division 1 team produces. Gonzaga is consistently ranked in the top 25 of both categories although they play nearly the 200th ranked strength of schedule. Gonzaga benefits from KenPom grading out on an equal scale. If they adjusted for opponent strength Gonzaga would barely make the top 50."


Kenpom is lying to us all then.

"The inputs into the pythagorean equation are the team’s adjusted offensive and defensive efficiencies. Any time you see something “adjusted” on this site, it refers to how a team would perform against average competition at a neutral site. For instance, a team’s offensive efficiency (points scored per 100 possessions) is adjusted for the strength of the opposing defenses played. I compute an adjusted offensive efficiency for each game by multiplying the team’s raw offensive efficiency by the national average efficiency and dividing by the opponent’s adjusted defensive efficiency. The adjusted game efficiencies are then averaged (with more weighting to recent games) to produce the final adjusted offensive efficiency."

 

[ryanbruner]

I guess you'll just have to figure it out through experience.

The rest of us have witnessed it for years. Adjusted O and D account for SOS and what your opponents do in their games. You're just going to have to trust us on that.

So be it then but I deleted my last post because there was already a reply but what I essentially said is Gonzaga is consistently ranked in the top 25 although they play around the 100th ranked SOS. So are they just an exception or is everyone graded on an equal scale?

 

[ryanbruner]

@ryanbruner no need to delete your posts:
"No the competition is what the average Division 1 team produces. Gonzaga is consistently ranked in the top 25 of both categories although they play nearly the 200th ranked strength of schedule. Gonzaga benefits from KenPom grading out on an equal scale. If they adjusted for opponent strength Gonzaga would barely make the top 50."


Kenpom is lying to us all then.

"The inputs into the pythagorean equation are the team’s adjusted offensive and defensive efficiencies. Any time you see something “adjusted” on this site, it refers to how a team would perform against average competition at a neutral site. For instance, a team’s offensive efficiency (points scored per 100 possessions) is adjusted for the strength of the opposing defenses played. I compute an adjusted offensive efficiency for each game by multiplying the team’s raw offensive efficiency by the national average efficiency and dividing by the opponent’s adjusted defensive efficiency. The adjusted game efficiencies are then averaged (with more weighting to recent games) to produce the final adjusted offensive efficiency."

You had already responded to what I was saying before I finished it lol and I didnt feel like making 2 of the same posts.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

So be it then but I deleted my last post because there was already a reply but what I essentially said is Gonzaga is consistently ranked in the top 25 although they play around the 100th ranked SOS. So are they just an exception or is everyone graded on an equal scale?

What rating/ranking system do you consider the most accurate judge of how good a team is?

ESPN's BPI
Sagarin
Kenpom's Adjusted Efficiency
AP Poll
Something else?

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

So be it then but I deleted my last post because there was already a reply but what I essentially said is Gonzaga is consistently ranked in the top 25 although they play around the 100th ranked SOS. So are they just an exception or is everyone graded on an equal scale?

That's exactly why something like Kenpom exists and exactly why Kenpom adjusts for opponent strength.

If Gonzaga is 30-2 against their bad schedule how can we compare them to a Duke team that is 25-7 vs a much harder ACC schedule?

Kenpom aims do that by taking those 32 games played by each team, adjusting for their opponent strength, and computing how many offensive points Gonzaga would score in 100 possessions against an average division 1 team (Adjusted offensive efficiency) and how many points they would allow vs an average division 1 team (Adjusted defensive efficiency).


Basic example:
Gonzaga scores 80 points against Eastern Washington (bad team).
Duke scores 60 points against North Carolina (good team).
Kenpom might adjust that to each team scoring 70 points against an average team.

 

[kyjeff1]

So be it then but I deleted my last post because there was already a reply but what I essentially said is Gonzaga is consistently ranked in the top 25 although they play around the 100th ranked SOS. So are they just an exception or is everyone graded on an equal scale?

Gonzaga is rated that high because they're crushing their opponents by fitty and holding them to some really bad shooting percentages.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

And more goes into it (pace, home court) but opponent strength is definitely a big factor.

 

[ryanbruner]

Well I was wrong if that is that is the case then I always believed KenPom created a system where each team graded out on a equal scale that was computer through determine how each team should fare against average competition

 

[kyjeff1]

A lot of valid points here, I agree with most of it but I also want to point out our most athletic player, Aaron Henry, played 2 mins in the first half due to foul trouble.

We'll be a lot better going forward than we were last night. Can't imagine we continue to miss that many open shots.

Michigan State plays a physical brand of basketball, they're going to get called for a lot of fouls.

I hate the way the game was called, both teams got called for a lot of fouls, but to be honest, that is how a typical SEC game is called. I'm not bullshitting either, it's a foul fest every night in the SEC.

I love the flow in ACC and BIG12 games. SEC refs suck and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that those were SEC refs officiating that game.

 

[HRTheCard]

Switch the competition for Kentucky and Louisville and it would look a lot different for both teams. Louisville could definitely beat MSU but it would have been ugly. I’m convinced any of the four teams in the classic last night would have pushed Miami’s shit in

We beat MSU last year, which that team had Langford lol and we had our crappy team.

 

[JimboBBN]

We beat MSU last year, which that team had Langford lol and we had our crappy team.

Well that’s why I said you all could beat them

 

[Demarcus Kidd-Miller]

A lot of valid points here, I agree with most of it but I also want to point out our most athletic player, Aaron Henry, played 2 mins in the first half due to foul trouble.

We'll be a lot better going forward than we were last night. Can't imagine we continue to miss that many open shots.

You will. I like your team a lot. You guys did what a good vet team does, fight and clawed back all game. For our young guys to never fade and punch back was cool to see. Like I said, Cal never has O implemented this early besides basic plays and simple pick and rolls. And if Maxey doesn't go berserk you guys probably win. Maxey will probably have a lot of games like that.

But i just really like the focus and energy we played with. I know Cal gets good players, but I still think people underestimate how hard his job is of getting a bunch of alphas motivated and to sacrifice, all while trying to teach them the college game. For them to defend like that against a vet FF team, who are more than likely accustomed to the offense they want to run... I was impressed. None of them seemed to care abbout scoring. If we can stay focused without paying attention to draft boards and who's getting the shine, we'll be tough as hell by the time they learn the college game and Cal's system.

I really do think Keion Brooks is a future stud too. He didn't show much last night but keep your eye on him.

Hopefully you guys get a chance to avenge the loss, I just hope it's in the title game and no sooner. Would be a great Tourney game.

 

[Sparty_0n]

Michigan State plays a physical brand of basketball, they're going to get called for a lot of fouls.

I hate the way the game was called, both teams got called for a lot of fouls, but to be honest, that is how a typical SEC game is called. I'm not bullshitting either, it's a foul fest every night in the SEC.

I love the flow in ACC and BIG12 games. SEC refs suck and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that those were SEC refs officiating that game.

Big Ten is called the same way, it's brutal.

I love watching Big East basketball - very few fouls, players play loose and the games are exciting as hell.

 

[ryanbruner]

Well that’s why I said you all could beat them

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Lost in all this, did you guys hear Dickie V say he plans on 19 more years of calling games? He said it over and over and over again. He's aiming for 60 years calling games.

 

[jimmysfly]

I was going to respond to the "MSU wins that game 7 out of 10 times" comment, but decided to leave it be earlier.

UK led that game from stem to stern and was able to answer MSU's runs every time. Led by 13 at one point.

It's actually the other way around, UK would win that game 7 out of 10 times. UK is a matchup problem for MSU, they can contain MSU's guards with length and elite athletesism and they have enough size to negate MSU's strong front court.

Not only that, but Brooks, Juzang, Whitney, EJ and Richards are going to be sooo much better by March.

That's not even touching on where Maxey will be by March. He's a lottery pick for sure.

*****

Let's stop with putting too much stock in this game. It is in fact more traditional that MSU is a better team come March than most programs. If they play again, NCAA tourney, great. It will be a classic. But then we're in a one and done format - flip a coin!

And no, you can't just assume Maxey will be even better by March. He hit some spectacular shots yesterday, let's call that last one a bit lucky & unexpected, & he wasn't emboldened on the MSU's scouting report. That's the thing about freshmen, they sneak up on teams early in the season, but then the grind of conference play begins. No doubt next time he will be better guarded. As the season progresses, there are injuries, and suddenly other players step up, or players return from injury (Langford, the best 3 point shooter on MSU).

Case and point: I'm pretty sure MSU beat heavily favored Duke in last year's elite eight. Zion and company obliterated Ky in last year's Champs Classic. I'm pretty sure Ky would have given Duke a much tighter contest last March as they damn near made the final four and lost to an Auburn team that gave Va its second toughest game of the tourney. KU handled MSU in last year's Classic, but then they had injuries, off court issues, and got pounded by Auburn in the round of two.

Yes there is a decent chance one of these four teams will make the final four. Since the Champs Classic started, 2011, each of these four teams has made it to at least 2 final fours:

Ky (2011, 2012 [Champs], 2014, 2015)
Duke (2015 [Champs])
MSU (2015, 2019)
KU (2012, 2018)

 

[Sparty_0n]

You will. I like your team a lot. You guys did what a good vet team does, fight and clawed back all game. For our young guys to never fade and punch back was cool to see. Like I said, Cal never has O implemented this early besides basic plays and simple pick and rolls. And if Maxey doesn't go berserk you guys probably win. Maxey will probably have a lot of games like that.

But i just really like the focus and energy we played with. I know Cal gets good players, but I still think people underestimate how hard his job is of getting a bunch of alphas motivated and to sacrifice, all while trying to teach them the college game. For them to defend like that against a vet FF team, who are more than likely accustomed to the offense they want to run... I was impressed. None of them seemed to care abbout scoring. If we can stay focused without paying attention to draft boards and who's getting the shine, we'll be tough as hell by the time they learn the college game and Cal's system.

I really do think Keion Brooks is a future stud too. He didn't show much last night but keep your eye on him.

Hopefully you guys get a chance to avenge the loss, I just hope it's in the title game and no sooner. Would be a great Tourney game.

Solid post. Kentucky looked like a FF team last night. MSU did not but you can see the potential and if it all comes together we'll get there.

Also... I shut the game off in the 2nd half and just watched the highlights... didn't realize Kentucky dunked on us up five with 10 seconds left.... my jimmies are officially rustled.

 

[Sparty_0n]

*****

Let's stop with putting too much stock in this game. It is in fact more traditional that MSU is a better team come March than most programs. If they play again, NCAA tourney, great. It will be a classic. But then we're in a one and done format - flip a coin!

And no, you can't just assume Maxey will be even better by March. He hit some spectacular shots yesterday, let's call that last one a bit lucky & unexpected, & he wasn't emboldened on the MSU's scouting report. That's the thing about freshmen, they sneak up on teams early in the season, but then the grind of conference play begins. No doubt next time he will be better guarded. As the season progresses, there are injuries, and suddenly other players step up, or players return from injury (Langford, the best 3 point shooter on MSU).

Case and point: I'm pretty sure MSU beat heavily favored Duke in last year's elite eight. Zion and company obliterated Ky in last year's Champs Classic. I'm pretty sure Ky would have given Duke a much tighter contest last March as they damn near made the final four and lost to an Auburn team that gave Va its second toughest game of the tourney. KU handled MSU in last year's Classic, but then they had injuries, off court issues, and got pounded by Auburn in the round of two.

Yes there is a decent chance one of these four teams will make the final four. Since the Champs Classic started, 2011, each of these four teams has made it to at least 2 final fours:

Ky (2011, 2012 [Champs], 2014, 2015)
Duke (2015 [Champs])
MSU (2015, 2019)
KU (2012, 2018)

Good stuff.

Gotta say, I expected UK fans to be assholes but you guys are all level headed and "act like you've been there before". I should know better, I've been to the CC twice and the UK fans were great.

Good luck going fwd, hoping for a rematch in the Natty.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Good stuff.

Gotta say, I expected UK fans to be assholes but you guys are all level headed and "act like you've been there before". I should know better, I've been to the CC twice and the UK fans were great.

Good luck going fwd, hoping for a rematch in the Natty.

Oh we're assholes through and through. We hide it behind the bourbon drunkenness.



Seriously, come to Kentucky and you'll be surprised how many (strangers) will put you up for the night and get you so full and drunk, you'll barely remember.

*Also, MSU was impossible to put away. Every single time UK made a run, MSU came right back. It was nerve-racking to say the least. I hate Langford was out.

 

[Random UK Fan]

Look on a map of Michigan, it's near Ann Arbor (Ypsilanti).

It's pronounced "Ipsy" for short and the full pronunciation is "Ipsilanti"

I learned something new today!

 

[kyjeff1]

*****

Let's stop with putting too much stock in this game. It is in fact more traditional that MSU is a better team come March than most programs. If they play again, NCAA tourney, great. It will be a classic. But then we're in a one and done format - flip a coin!

And no, you can't just assume Maxey will be even better by March. He hit some spectacular shots yesterday, let's call that last one a bit lucky & unexpected, & he wasn't emboldened on the MSU's scouting report. That's the thing about freshmen, they sneak up on teams early in the season, but then the grind of conference play begins. No doubt next time he will be better guarded. As the season progresses, there are injuries, and suddenly other players step up, or players return from injury (Langford, the best 3 point shooter on MSU).

Case and point: I'm pretty sure MSU beat heavily favored Duke in last year's elite eight. Zion and company obliterated Ky in last year's Champs Classic. I'm pretty sure Ky would have given Duke a much tighter contest last March as they damn near made the final four and lost to an Auburn team that gave Va its second toughest game of the tourney. KU handled MSU in last year's Classic, but then they had injuries, off court issues, and got pounded by Auburn in the round of two.

Yes there is a decent chance one of these four teams will make the final four. Since the Champs Classic started, 2011, each of these four teams has made it to at least 2 final fours:

Ky (2011, 2012 [Champs], 2014, 2015)
Duke (2015 [Champs])
MSU (2015, 2019)
KU (2012, 2018)

Who's putting a bunch of stock in last night's game??? All I did was state a fact in response to a statement that was made earlier.
Based on last night's game, I refuse to agree that MSU would win 7 out of 10 times if the series were to be played right now. UK controlled the game.
I think it's a dumb statement, but it's an opinion or a thought, but, in my opinion, if you watched the game, you would have to say that the team that would win 7 out of 10 right now would be UK. This has nothing to do with March.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Who's putting a bunch of stock in last night's game??? All I did was state a fact in response to a statement that was made earlier.
Based on last night's game, I refuse to agree that MSU would win 7 out of 10 times if the series were to be played right now. UK controlled the game.
I think it's a dumb statement, but it's an opinion or a thought, but, in my opinion, if you watched the game, you would have to say that the team that would win 7 out of 10 right now would be UK. This has nothing to do with March.

Again UK did lead all but 20 some seconds.

 

[kyjeff1]

Big Ten is called the same way, it's brutal.

I love watching Big East basketball - very few fouls, players play loose and the games are exciting as hell.

It might be, but I don't recall seeing many BIG10 games getting called like that. It's one of the more physical conferences, in fact, I believe it's thought of as THE most physical basketball conference.
If the refs called fouls like last night in the BIG10, nobody would call it a physical conference.

 

[Demarcus Kidd-Miller]

Lost in all this, did you guys hear Dickie V say he plans on 19 more years of calling games? He said it over and over and over again. He's aiming for 60 years calling games.

Insert ears bleeding gif. Nah he isn't that bad when he just calls the game. When he becomes a hype man though... It's like Joe Rogan screaming every time someone lands a jab in UFC (I love Joe btw).

Solid post. Kentucky looked like a FF team last night. MSU did not but you can see the potential and if it all comes together we'll get there.

Also... I shut the game off in the 2nd half and just watched the highlights... didn't realize Kentucky dunked on us up five with 10 seconds left.... my jimmies are officially rustled.

Meh, if you watch the play it wasn't atrocious. Ashton hesitated and blew past Winston (who was going to foul). Sestina broke away and Ashton hit him with a dime. Still could've stopped and just held the ball. MSU definitely would've fouled and he would've went to the line though. MSU defender was right behind him. Wasn't like everybody stood still and they went and dunked to be a dick. I doubt more than a handful had an issue with it. Like you said there was 10 secs left. If MSU fouls and we miss FT's things could get interesting.

 

[kyjeff1]

Again UK did lead all but 20 some seconds.

Exactly. I don't know why I was accused of putting too much stock in last night's game. It's not like I claimed UK was going to win the natty, but they controlled 90% of the game, so I simply disagreed with a statement that was made earlier by a State fan.

 

[Montana81]

Is it alright if I say I thought UK got a friendly whistle last night?

Am I the only UK fan that feels that way?

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Is it alright if I say I thought UK got a friendly whistle last night?

Am I the only UK fan that feels that way?

As a Kentucky fan, I wouldn't know a friendly whistle if I heard it live.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

...but yeah, it took them out of their gameplan early.

If the shoe was on the other foot, UK fans would have a lot more posts on here today.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Is it alright if I say I thought UK got a friendly whistle last night?

Am I the only UK fan that feels that way?

Apparently.

I have the phone number for my eye doctor. Do you need it? Eyeroll

 

[MGC_07]

Is it alright if I say I thought UK got a friendly whistle last night?

Am I the only UK fan that feels that way?

C’mon man. You know you’re never supposed to admit the team you cheer for got the favorable whistle. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with what you’re saying, but I’ve never seen someone in this board admit something like that.

 

[MileHighSpartan]

UK had some guys in foul trouble as well, it was a physical game and honestly, that's how most SEC games are called. I hate it, but it's true.
Winston definitely makes more of those threes in a typical game, but so does Quickley. He bricked a couple, but I would put him right there with Cassius for three point shooting efficiency.
But my point was, if anyone is going to win 7 out of 10, it would be UK judging by how that game went. IDK how anyone could watch that game and come away with MSU winning 7 out of 10.
Both teams are going to get tremendously better, but right now, I like where UK is at, they usually aren't this good in early November.
But again, if State gets Langford back and he's 100%, MSU is the best team in the country. You can clearly see he was badly missed last night.

Not sure Quickley is the same level of shooter as Cassius. He averaged 34.5% last season, on 2.4 attempts per game. The most he hit in any single game last year, was 3 (twice). Winston shot 39.8% on 5.4 attempts per game last year, and had 14 games where he hit at least 3+.

Is it alright if I say I thought UK got a friendly whistle last night?

Am I the only UK fan that feels that way?

I think that is part of the frustration from the MSU fans. Never want to blame the refs for anything, but the first half officiating clearly hampered MSU more than it did UK. MSU had to sit its best defender Henry for 17 minutes, and had to sit Tillman (only legit big man) as well. That can't happen for MSU, where there is a decent drop off between the starters and the reserves.

Henry's fouls were both the right call. Tillman's were both questionable, especially the 2nd one where he threw up an oop for Bingham when it was 18-18. MSU would've taken the lead then, and Tillman would've still only had 1 foul. Instead, points erased and then Maxey hit a 3 just 30 seconds later. Just seemed like there were a lot of "momentum changing" fouls called, typically when MSU was trying to claw back.












That's not to say MSU didn't shoot themselves in the foot multiple times either, though. Gabe Brown jacking up a 19ft jumper instead of driving to the hoop when it was a 2 on 1 fastbreak. Cash and multiple others missing wide open 3's on kick outs. Rocket Watts played scared the entire game. Cash fouled a 3pt shooter twice, I believe.

MSU "won" the 2nd half 38-35. If they hadn't dug themselves into a 10-point hole at half, they'd have had a much better shot at winning. I think that is why MSU fans are still feeling somewhat confident regarding their 7/10 predictions.

 

[RipThru]

Damn. Some are having a hard time accepting an L. Good thing you didn't get your ass kicked by 34, you'd never have gotten over it. Laughing

And the 7/10 shit is crazy talk to me.

 

[MGC_07]

Damn. Some are having a hard time accepting an L. Good thing you didn't get your ass kicked by 34, you'd never have gotten over it. Laughing

And the 7/10 shit is crazy talk to me.

MSU had our best players riding the bench because of foul trouble, we couldn’t hit an open 3 to save our lives, and I don’t think it’s crazy to say UK got the benefit of the whistle slightly. And with all that, it was a 2 point game with a minute left.

Edit: Maxey also wouldn’t have a game like that again, especially with Henry on him the whole game and not riding the bench.

 

[jimmysfly]

Who's putting a bunch of stock in last night's game??? All I did was state a fact in response to a statement that was made earlier.
Based on last night's game, I refuse to agree that MSU would win 7 out of 10 times if the series were to be played right now. UK controlled the game.
I think it's a dumb statement, but it's an opinion or a thought, but, in my opinion, if you watched the game, you would have to say that the team that would win 7 out of 10 right now would be UK. This has nothing to do with March.

Dude, I never made a point about "7 out of 10" either. Whomever said that was being impractical. College basketball has never been about a best of series when it comes to cutting down the nets.

I shifted the focus to March and early April because that is what matters at the end of the day, and I think you agree. Ky has been a major factor this time of year under Cal, more so than MSU lately, I pointed this out with the stats. To be clear, Ky has all the other teams from the Champs Classic beat since 2011 in terms of FF appearances.

But, I just don't see last night's loss for MSU as a trajectory you can count on if Ky and MSU play again. MSU will be far better prepared against Ky in the next matchup.

I made my points, and I'll make a couple more:

MSU does not have Ky's riches of 4 & 5 star reloads each year. They tend to develop freshmen and sophomores on a slower pace.

Ky & Duke are fantastic at developing lower classmen. It tends to look great in the early season, especially in the non-conference slate, most cases. But you can't count on Maxey being all universe by March. We'll just have to see.

Both teams will have to go through a brutal conference grind. Various coaches will expose weaknesses that will be addressed accordingly.

Since I'm much more of MSU fan than Ky, I can fairly argue my concerns that MSU has to develop bench depth, which killed them in last year's tourney run. I knew they wouldn't last against Texas Tech - they were spent after upsetting Duke. People forget MSU lost Ahrens just before the tourney, Langford was already out and Nick Ward was never 100% last year. But I think this team will have a solid bench by March, perhaps a dangerous one capable of winning it all. The upside for MSU is getting Gabe Brown and Bingham solid minutes - Bingham had flashes of brilliance last night. Once that happens, with their length, ouch!

Last night's interesting freshmen matchup was Rocket Watts and Maxey. Maxey torched Watts. But Watts was also spent doing other duties throughout the game, while Maxey could lean on 3 other stud guards. MSU's guard depth was exposed and this is where the return of Langford is crucial.

Ultimately, last night's Ky win, purely my opinion, was the 3-point shot, as well as the guard play noted above. Both teams were pretty awful beyond the arc, and I think the new line will be an adjustment period for all of CB. But, Ky was better, they made one more 3 on 8 less attempts. MSU had great looks, but couldn't hit, which was reminiscent of their loss to Texas Tech last year. (Where are you Langford?) Ky, especially Maxey, hit timely 3's.

 

[RipThru]

MSU had our best players riding the bench because of foul trouble, we couldn’t hit an open 3 to save our lives, and I don’t think it’s crazy to say UK got the benefit of the whistle slightly. And with all that, it was a 2 point game with a minute left.

Edit: Maxey also wouldn’t have a game like that again, especially with Henry on him the whole game and not riding the bench.

Let me see if I got this right...You couldn't hit an open 3, and Maxey won't have another game like that? That is a great example of what I am talking about. You have no way of knowing if either of those things is true. Hell, Duke thought Jack White could shoot!

Your guys were on the bench because Izzo put them there. There's no rule saying you can't play with 2 fouls.

Fouls: MSU 22, UK 20. Your guys fouled on a couple of 3's, you were down late, and you shot 26 3s.

 

[kyjeff1]

Not sure Quickley is the same level of shooter as Cassius. He averaged 34.5% last season, on 2.4 attempts per game. The most he hit in any single game last year, was 3 (twice). Winston shot 39.8% on 5.4 attempts per game last year, and had 14 games where he hit at least 3+.



I think that is part of the frustration from the MSU fans. Never want to blame the refs for anything, but the first half officiating clearly hampered MSU more than it did UK. MSU had to sit its best defender Henry for 17 minutes, and had to sit Tillman (only legit big man) as well. That can't happen for MSU, where there is a decent drop off between the starters and the reserves.

Henry's fouls were both the right call. Tillman's were both questionable, especially the 2nd one where he threw up an oop for Bingham when it was 18-18. MSU would've taken the lead then, and Tillman would've still only had 1 foul. Instead, points erased and then Maxey hit a 3 just 30 seconds later. Just seemed like there were a lot of "momentum changing" fouls called, typically when MSU was trying to claw back.

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That's not to say MSU didn't shoot themselves in the foot multiple times either, though. Gabe Brown jacking up a 19ft jumper instead of driving to the hoop when it was a 2 on 1 fastbreak. Cash and multiple others missing wide open 3's on kick outs. Rocket Watts played scared the entire game. Cash fouled a 3pt shooter twice, I believe.

MSU "won" the 2nd half 38-35. If they hadn't dug themselves into a 10-point hole at half, they'd have had a much better shot at winning. I think that is why MSU fans are still feeling somewhat confident regarding their 7/10 predictions.

Wow, I thought it was UK fans that complained about officiating???
Turns out, errbody does it.
I saw plenty of bs call that went against uk too, it wasn't just one way.