Miami vs Kentucky Game Day Thread ***

[ExitFlagger]

The game is more physical and the offenses are mire dpread out than they were just 8 years ago. The ones thriving are the older teams that have cohesiveness and a strong bond.

It’s really hard for freshmen to overcome the large step from HS to college, now I feel like it's even harder than it used to be.

Can a young team win? Well, yeah, but they better be really special to overcome the many hurdles a young team has to face. There just isn’t enough time in a season to teach these kids everything they need to know to win when the heat is at it's hottest.

I can say the same thing about veteran teams. Can a veteran team win? Well, yeah, but they'd better be really special to overcome the many hurdles a team lacking 50 NBA players has to face.

How many old teams fail? How many fail miserably? Now what percentage of OAD-laden teams fail to make a decent run in the tourney? Not too many. With a large percentage going to the Elite 8 or further.

Yeah, young teams HAVE won at the highest levels, but the last one to do it, was 2015 duke. Like I said, the game is much more physical and spread out than it used to be.

2022 Duke started 3 OADs. Went to the final four and looked like the team to beat for much of the tourney.

How many teams in that span have been full of highly-rated young talent? The number of these teams is far, far lower than the number of "old" teams. There are only two programs that consistently have a bunch of highly-rated young players. And they don't always have the right mix. And/or questionable coaching. When you're comparing Kentucky/Duke to....everyone else....obviously the field is going to have higher odds of producing a national champ.

Why do you never factor in coaching? You rag on Calipari and want him out, yet at the same time you act like he's getting as much out of these teams as any other coach could.

Let's turn it around. Do you see Calipari winning it all with '19 Virginia, '22 KU, or last year's UConn? Or nearly winning it all with '19 Texas Tech or '22 UNC? I don't.

 

[kyjeff1]

I can say the same thing about veteran teams. Can a veteran team win? Well, yeah, but they'd better be really special to overcome the many hurdles a team lacking 50 NBA players has to face.

How many old teams fail? How many fail miserably? Now what percentage of OAD-laden teams fail to make a decent run in the tourney? Not too many. With a large percentage going to the Elite 8 or further.



2022 Duke started 3 OADs. Went to the final four and looked like the team to beat for much of the tourney.

How many teams in that span have been full of highly-rated young talent? The number of these teams is far, far lower than the number of "old" teams. There are only two programs that consistently have a bunch of highly-rated young players. And they don't always have the right mix. And/or questionable coaching. When you're comparing Kentucky/Duke to....everyone else....obviously the field is going to have higher odds of producing a national champ.

Why do you never factor in coaching? You rag on Calipari and want him out, yet at the same time you act like he's getting as much out of these teams as any other coach could.

Let's turn it around. Do you see Calipari winning it all with '19 Virginia, '22 KU, or last year's UConn? Or nearly winning it all with '19 Texas Tech or '22 UNC? I don't.

Right, but how many of those veterans are trying to adjust to the speed and physicality.of the game? How many are rated highly just hecause they have potential?

We're seeing more and more parity every year. Two 16 seeds have beaten 1 seeds and there are very few easy wins anymore.

Yeah, only 4 teams make the FF, but what Ihm saying is, if you're going to try to beat the best veteran teams out there with freshmen, those kids.need to be top shelf dudes that are polished.

 

[Random UK Fan]

You rag on Calipari and want him out, yet at the same time you act like he's getting as much out of these teams as any other coach could.

I’m a bit mad at Cal for not having brought in an offensive-minded assistant sooner. He looks like he’s finally done what we “basketball Bennie’s”, as he likes to call our fans, have been pleading with him to do. His stubbornness cost us at least 3 years.

I’m enjoying it again now that he’s acquiesced.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Right, but how many of those veterans are trying to adjust to the speed and physicality.of the game? How many are rated highly just hecause they have potential?

You have 30+ games to adjust before the Dance, with vets like Reeves and Mitchell to lean on. Some will adjust faster than others, but you don't need all of them firing on all cylinders to be good.

We're seeing more and more parity every year. Two 16 seeds have beaten 1 seeds and there are very few easy wins anymore.

Yeah, only 4 teams make the FF, but what Ihm saying is, if you're going to try to beat the best veteran teams out there with freshmen, those kids.need to be top shelf dudes that are polished.

Depends on how you define top shelf. I'd argue that Kentucky and Duke have had a ton of top shelf freshmen. It's not like any of the current players are generational talents, but they're top shelf talents in the college game right now, especially collectively.

Bottom line: If Kentucky started passing on top 10 recruits in favor of Dajuan Harrises or KJ Adams clones, you and the rest of your fanbase would lose your minds. Zero doubt in my mind whatsoever.

 

[BasketBallJunkie-UK]

I’m a bit mad at Cal for not having brought in an offensive-minded assistant sooner. He looks like he’s finally done what we “basketball Bennie’s”, as he likes to call our fans, have been pleading with him to do. His stubbornness cost us at least 3 years.

I’m enjoying it again now that he’s acquiesced.

We didn't have the players the past 2 years to even attempt this style. Maybe the 2020 team.

 

[kyjeff1]

You have 30+ games to adjust before the Dance, with vets like Reeves and Mitchell to lean on. Some will adjust faster than others, but you don't need all of them firing on all cylinders to be good.



Depends on how you define top shelf. I'd argue that Kentucky and Duke have had a ton of top shelf freshmen. It's not like any of the current players are generational talents, but they're top shelf talents in the college game right now, especially collectively.

Bottom line: If Kentucky started passing on top 10 recruits in favor of Dajuan Harrises or KJ Adams clones, you and the rest of your fanbase would lose your minds. Zero doubt in my mind whatsoever.

When I say "top shelf", I'm talking Wall, Randle, Cousins, Fox, Towns, Maxey and of course, AD. You aren't going anywhere with 2nd tier 5 star kids, they aren't polished enough, or tough enough to carry the load. It’s been proven.
If you're going to start over with a new team every year, the kids you bring in better be very polished and very special, because you're starting out in a hole.

John Calipari is a C level bench coach, he knows this, so he tries to out talent everyone. But he was still running weaves, iso and post up offenses, that’s not going to cut it in todays world.

So he brought in Welch and some shooters this year. Voila. Now he’s telling us he couldn’t run this type of offense with his previous teams, because they didn't have shooters and you can’t bench Oscar. Well, who's fault is that? This is UK, one of the benefits of coaching here is, you can get almost any player you want.

What he's not admitting to is, he got the kids he wanted to build his teams with. He was recruiting to his style of play, which belongs in 1985.

I'm glad he's finally seeing what real modern basketball can be. Hopefully he sticks with it.

 

[kyjeff1]

We didn't have the players the past 2 years to even attempt this style. Maybe the 2020 team.

Who's fault is that though? This is Kentucky and Cal is supposed to he a master recruiter. He should be able to get whatever players he wants. He was recruiting kids for the styles he likes to run, which was iso, post and tall guys to defend the rim.

The 3 times he went with something more modern, was 2012, 2017 and 2020. All other seasons, he ran through the post while the guards stood there and watched. The lane was always clogged.

 

[kyjeff1]

I’m a bit mad at Cal for not having brought in an offensive-minded assistant sooner. He looks like he’s finally done what we “basketball Bennie’s”, as he likes to call our fans, have been pleading with him to do. His stubbornness cost us at least 3 years.

I’m enjoying it again now that he’s acquiesced.

Yes and he'll just make excuses for why he didn’t play this way sooner and the Bennies will not get credited for it. He actually.mocks us in just about every presser. "Well, you guys will say "why didn’t you play this way before", well, I didn't have the personnel, you can't run this style with Oscar on the court"
Well, who's fault is that? Also, we did run this style in a few games in 21/22. We blew out Kansas, WKY, uNC and UT playing that way. We ran those teams ragged

But you can tell he's having fun with this. This style of ball is tailor made for him. He can plug and play and use the bench as a motivator. He’s never liked shooting more than 15 threes per game, but he's definitely seeing the value in using the 3 ball to spread the court right now.

I'm not sure why he didn’t realize it sooner, teams have been beating him with a spread out offense for years.

 

[dukedevilz]

There are a lot of good 4 year guys that mafe it to the NBA and had a nice career. They are glue guys and that’s what Reed will be.

I'd say Sheppard is more likely to be a OAD than he is to stay 4 years.

What do other Kentucky fans think?

 

[Random UK Fan]

Yes and he'll just make excuses for why he didn’t play this way sooner and the Bennies will not get credited for it. He actually.mocks us in just about every presser. "Well, you guys will say "why didn’t you play this way before", well, I didn't have the personnel, you can't run this style with Oscar on the court"
Well, who's fault is that? Also, we did run this style in a few games in 21/22. We blew out Kansas, WKY, uNC and UT playing that way. We ran those teams ragged

But you can tell he's having fun with this. This style of ball is tailor made for him. He can plug and play and use the bench as a motivator. He’s never liked shooting more than 15 threes per game, but he's definitely seeing the value in using the 3 ball to spread the court right now.

I'm not sure why he didn’t realize it sooner, teams have been beating him with a spread out offense for years.

Great post.

 

[Random UK Fan]

I'd say Sheppard is more likely to be a OAD than he is to stay 4 years.

What do other Kentucky fans think?

I think he should come back. The adoration of an entire state is forever. Once you go to the league you’re an employee.im not sure his parents will let him be a OAD. If you’re special at Uk (from there), you’re set. They know that. You keep the fans of Kentucky happy they’ll take care of you the rest of your life, post NBA. He could probably become governor one day.

 

[dukedevilz]

I think he should come back. The adoration of an entire state is forever. Once you go to the league you’re an employee.im not sure his parents will let him be a OAD. IF YOURE SPECIAL AT uk (from there), you’re set. You keep the fans of Kentucky happy they’ll take care of you the rest of your life, post NBA. He could probably become governor one day.

And I'm not saying Sheppard is going to be OAD. 2-3 years seems more likely. I just can't imagine him staying for 4 years. Talented and productive guards don't last 4 years in college unless they have some major warts in their game - and I'm not sure Sheppard really has any, other than his physical limitations.

 

[Sparty_57]

Yes and he'll just make excuses for why he didn’t play this way sooner and the Bennies will not get credited for it. He actually.mocks us in just about every presser. "Well, you guys will say "why didn’t you play this way before", well, I didn't have the personnel, you can't run this style with Oscar on the court"
Well, who's fault is that? Also, we did run this style in a few games in 21/22. We blew out Kansas, WKY, uNC and UT playing that way. We ran those teams ragged

But you can tell he's having fun with this. This style of ball is tailor made for him. He can plug and play and use the bench as a motivator. He’s never liked shooting more than 15 threes per game, but he's definitely seeing the value in using the 3 ball to spread the court right now.

I'm not sure why he didn’t realize it sooner, teams have been beating him with a spread out offense for years.

I say it's still November. Let's see how this plays out.

 

[RR30]

And I'm not saying Sheppard is going to be OAD. 2-3 years seems more likely. I just can't imagine him staying for 4 years. Talented and productive guards don't last 4 years in college unless they have some major warts in their game - and I'm not sure Sheppard really has any, other than his physical limitations.

DX had him like 20th today in his mock draft. There's a good chance he's 1 and done.

 

[I am stupid]

People saying Reed will enter the draft early and not stay to win 3 or 4 national championships...

 

[kyjeff1]

I'd say Sheppard is more likely to be a OAD than he is to stay 4 years.

What do other Kentucky fans think?

If he plays like this all year long, they have to take him, but, he’s not very athletic, he doesn't have crazy length either, so he doesn't fit the description of a guy the NBA soends a first round pick on.

But then again, they took Tyler Herro and Emmanuel Quickley, so, I guess it's possible.

I just want to get one more year of him in a UK jersey, just one more. Meanwhile, Ihm looking at Duke's roster and you have Filipowski that stayed, that would never happen at UK. Cal is too obsessed with getting kids drafted.

 

[kyjeff1]

I think he should come back. The adoration of an entire state is forever. Once you go to the league you’re an employee.im not sure his parents will let him be a OAD. If you’re special at Uk (from there), you’re set. They know that. You keep the fans of Kentucky happy they’ll take care of you the rest of your life, post NBA. He could probably become governor one day.

I've noticed John Wall has been hanging around UK more and more. I get the feeling he wishes he stayed in college one more year, he appears to miss it. He loved his time in a UK jersey. It was hard at first, but he figured it out.

 

[kyjeff1]

And I'm not saying Sheppard is going to be OAD. 2-3 years seems more likely. I just can't imagine him staying for 4 years. Talented and productive guards don't last 4 years in college unless they have some major warts in their game - and I'm not sure Sheppard really has any, other than his physical limitations.

Actually, I don't believe Cal has ever had a player stay four years.

Willie Cauley Stein, Lance Ware and Nick Richards stayed 3 years, but I don't think anyone has stayed for 4.

2 years is about as long as most kids are willing to stay at UK. The kids that come here, usually have that one-and-done mindset, because that's what our culture is all about, which I hate.

 

[kyjeff1]

I say it's still November. Let's see how this plays out.

100%, I'm definitely intrigued. I can't imagine UK can sustain this level of play with these young guys.

We need to remember, these games have been on a neutral court, or in Rupp. Eventually they'll have to play true road games.

 

[dukedevilz]

Actually, I don't believe Cal has ever had a player stay four years.

Willie Cauley Stein, Lance Ware and Nick Richards stayed 3 years, but I don't think anyone has stayed for 4.

2 years is about as long as most kids are willing to stay at UK. The kids that come here, usually have that one-and-done mindset, because that's what our culture is all about, which I hate.

Alex Poythress, Derek Willis, Dominique Hawkins.

Meanwhile, Ihm looking at Duke's roster and you have Filipowski that stayed, that would never happen at UK.

Staying for two years isn't unheard of, especially with 7-figure NIL offers available. Flip has said multiple times he never actually considered leaving after his freshmen season. A decent comparison for a Kentucky guy returning for year 2 might be Terrence Jones.

DX had him like 20th today in his mock draft. There's a good chance he's 1 and done.

Good to know I'm not crazy. He may lack length and athleticism - but, the kid can shoot, defend, and make correct reads with consistency. He could have a Jeff Hornacek-type career.

 

[kyjeff1]

Alex Poythress, Derek Willis, Dominique Hawkins.



Staying for two years isn't unheard of, especially with 7-figure NIL offers available. Flip has said multiple times he never actually considered leaving after his freshmen season. A decent comparison for a Kentucky guy returning for year 2 might be Terrence Jones.



Good to know I'm not crazy. He may lack length and athleticism - but, the kid can shoot, defend, and make correct reads with consistency. He could have a Jeff Hornacek-type career.

Forgot about Willis, Hawkins snd Alex Poythress.
Alex had the ACL tear during the 14/15 season and the other two were Kentucky guys that took a few years to develop into rotational players.
But still, that’s 6 total guys out of what… 100? Yikes.

 

[Random UK Fan]

100%, I'm definitely intrigued. I can't imagine UK can sustain this level of play with these young guys.

We need to remember, these games have been on a neutral court, or in Rupp. Eventually they'll have to play true road games.

I like that our fanbase, AFAIK, isn’t pounding our chest to the CBB world about this team. Unfortunately, our last few years have been a governor on our enthusiasm. They’re a good team.

 

[kyjeff1]

I like that our fanbase, AFAIK, isn’t pounding our chest to the CBB world about this team. Unfortunately, our last few years have been a governor on our enthusiasm. They’re a good team.

Yeah, I don't know about you, but the last few seasons has gotten me used to losing and also taught me that with Cal in charge, there is no assuming wins any longer.

This team feels different, but I refuse to let my guard down.

 

[FaithPlusOne]

Alex Poythress, Derek Willis, Dominique Hawkins.



Staying for two years isn't unheard of, especially with 7-figure NIL offers available. Flip has said multiple times he never actually considered leaving after his freshmen season. A decent comparison for a Kentucky guy returning for year 2 might be Terrence Jones.



Good to know I'm not crazy. He may lack length and athleticism - but, the kid can shoot, defend, and make correct reads with consistency. He could have a Jeff Hornacek-type career.

I think he’s the exact type to get taken late in the first round. Goes to a good team that wants another shooter and solid contributor.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Shooters we’ve had.

Makers we have.

I am going to have some Makers this afternoon!

 

[RR30]

I think he’s the exact type to get taken late in the first round. Goes to a good team that wants another shooter and solid contributor.

Yup. Assuming he's a 40% shooter (and not the ridiculous 60% or w/e he is right now) he'd be a solid role player for years in the league.