Kansas vs Baylor

ExitFlagger

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Okay,



Svi running with the ball vs KSU is a great example of a “Phog” win. 2012 Missouri had some interesting calls.

I think refs give Kansas the benefit of the doubt. Im sure KSU and ISU offers a nice hostile crowd. I'm not sure how hostile YCU gets. We generally pack TCU for our game there.

I have no idea about the Missouri game. That was a decade ago. If these "Phog wins" occur often, you shouldn't have to go back that far.

All those numbers tell us is that KU draws more fouls at home than the average D-1 program. In the same article, it mentions that KU had the 38th best home foul advantage in recent seasons.

This is also from the same article:
“When you play in a tough environment on the road against a team that is very good and has great fan support, it’s human nature on the part of some officials to get caught up in the atmosphere of the game,” Fraschilla said. “It’s no different at Kansas than it is at other places. There’s a small segment of officials who don’t want to be booed.”

So yeah, like I said, they get some calls at home due to the environment (and also often an athleticism advantage). But they also have to play in by far the toughest road environments in the conference, which nobody ever considers. Remember when Texas had like 5 people in the seats a few years back? Tune in tonight and see how it compares when KU comes to town.
 

TechFan88

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I have no idea about the Missouri game. That was a decade ago. If these "Phog wins" occur often, you shouldn't have to go back that far.

All those numbers tell us is that KU draws more fouls at home than the average D-1 program. In the same article, it mentions that KU had the 38th best home foul advantage in recent seasons.

This is also from the same article:
“When you play in a tough environment on the road against a team that is very good and has great fan support, it’s human nature on the part of some officials to get caught up in the atmosphere of the game,” Fraschilla said. “It’s no different at Kansas than it is at other places. There’s a small segment of officials who don’t want to be booed.”

So yeah, like I said, they get some calls at home due to the environment (and also often an athleticism advantage). But they also have to play in by far the toughest road environments in the conference, which nobody ever considers. Remember when Texas had like 5 people in the seats a few years back? Tune in tonight and see how it compares when KU comes to town.
I'm doing this pro-bono. I'm not going to research all close Kansas home games for multiple years to give you a detailed list. Svi running with the ball was blatant.

You are trying to say it evens out because people pack the arenas for Kansas and get calls. But I already gave an example that you even agreed with showing that isn't always the case.

2017 in Lubbock - Lost 80-79 at home. 79-79 foul called on a Josh Jackson flop with 2.8 seconds left. Josh Jackson went 1-2. 91.4% Capacity.

Also Texas always has 5 fans. The only time more show up if it's an event otherwise there's better stuff to do in Austin just ask the UT fans.
 
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ExitFlagger

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I'm doing this pro-bono. I'm not going to research all close Kansas home games for multiple years to give you a detailed list. Svi running with the ball was blatant.

You are trying to say it evens out because people pack the arenas for Kansas and get calls. But I already gave an example that you even agreed with showing that isn't always the case.

2017 in Lubbock - Lost 80-79 at home. 79-79 foul called on a Josh Jackson flop with 2.8 seconds left. Josh Jackson went 1-2. 91.4% Capacity.

Also Texas always has 5 fans. The only time more show up if it's an event otherwise there's better stuff to do in Austin just ask the UT fans.

I don't expect you to do extensive research, but a couple games and the remarks of known whiners like Huggins and Weber isn't exactly rock solid evidence.

38th best home foul advantage. That alone tells you that the reputation is way overblown.

Singling out one or two examples proves absolutely nothing. It would be like me saying that everyone gets a bad whistle in Lubbock, and my evidence is the 2005 game.

Yes, Texas brings 5 fans for everyone...but KU. And maybe Baylor now.
 
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Turinturumbar

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Okay,



Svi running with the ball vs KSU is a great example of a “Phog” win. 2012 Missouri had some interesting calls.

I think refs give Kansas the benefit of the doubt. Im sure KSU and ISU offers a nice hostile crowd. I'm not sure how hostile YCU gets. We generally pack TCU for our game there.
One thing they overlook in their analysis is intentional fouls. KU wins a lot more close games on the road than at home. When winning a close game, you’re always gonna end up shooting 4+ free throws at the end of a game. This distorts free throw discrepancies, because there are a lot of games where opponents shoot more free throws than KU the first 39 minutes, but then intentionally foul KU at the end to basically even up the foul shots. I saw somebody do this same analysis a while back while removing intentional free throws, and KU’s free throw discrepancy was middle of the pack in the big 12.

For every “Svi traveling with the ball” situation that benefits KU, I’ve got a story that goes against KU. Like when the ISU player literally put his hand through the rim to goaltend a shot that could have won it for KU, but the ref missed it. Or the Mizzou player who took 5 steps to hit a game winning shot in Columbia, ref holding his whistle when Tech was trying to intentionally foul KU’s Miles at the end, which directly led to Tech winning, a KSU(I think) three where the ref missed that his foot was on the line, and that extra point lost it for KU, literally any road game against WVU when Huggins was running his full court pressure… I’ve got a million examples.

You will of course hold onto the ones that benefit KU, but not notice the ones that hurt KU. It’s called sour grapes. It’s an internal bias you have. And hey, I get it. I sometimes feel the same way when watching DUKE play or Bama/Texas in football. You want a successful program to lose, and as a result you become invested in them losing, which puts your blinders on. I feel Duke gets calls, but if I’m honest with myself, no they don’t. They’re just good and well coached and I want them to lose, so I notice things more when they benefit them. It is what it is. We all experience bias. I’d be surprised if you didn’t. KU has dominated the Big XII for so long it makes sense. I’d want to see KU lose too, if I weren’t a KU fan.
 
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Turinturumbar

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I'm doing this pro-bono. I'm not going to research all close Kansas home games for multiple years to give you a detailed list. Svi running with the ball was blatant.

You are trying to say it evens out because people pack the arenas for Kansas and get calls. But I already gave an example that you even agreed with showing that isn't always the case.

2017 in Lubbock - Lost 80-79 at home. 79-79 foul called on a Josh Jackson flop with 2.8 seconds left. Josh Jackson went 1-2. 91.4% Capacity.

Also Texas always has 5 fans. The only time more show up if it's an event otherwise there's better stuff to do in Austin just ask the UT fans.
Yeah, but KU also has games at home where the calls don’t go our way. We usually win them though even when the calls go against us. WVU is a good example. The refs favored them that day, but KU still won by 30. There have been many others where we got an unfair whistle at home. We have lost a couple, but got the most part we win them anyway. That’s just how it goes. Sometimes the whistle goes your way, sometimes it doesn’t. The moral of this story is “get better”. If you get better, you’ll win at home even when you get a bad whistle.
 

Turinturumbar

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I don't expect you to do extensive research, but a couple games and the remarks of known whiners like Huggins and Weber isn't exactly rock solid evidence.

38th best home foul advantage. That alone tells you that the reputation is way overblown.

Singling out one or two examples proves absolutely nothing. It would be like me saying that everyone gets a bad whistle in Lubbock, and my evidence is the 2005 game.

Yes, Texas brings 5 fans for everyone...but KU. And maybe Baylor now.
Huggins is the worst person to use as an example. I love Huggins, but for several years there you knew going in that they were going to hack and slap you for 40 minutes to the point you could barely get the ball down the court without getting fouled(but not called) 5 times. He knew they could get away with it, because no officials could stand getting booed for 40 minutes straight. WVU always had the most drastic home/away foul differences for this very reason. They’d try to pull that stuff in the road and opponents would shoot 40 free throws unless they got lucky and got a crew that let them play physical.
 
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ExitFlagger

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Yep….never fails. Texas’s largest and loudest crowd of the year. 🤣
 

Turinturumbar

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Yep….never fails. Texas’s largest and loudest crowd of the year. 🤣
You’re wrong. That isn’t a full house. That’s the same 5 guys….and a couple friends. Thank god we always get the calls though. Otherwise, Texas might have shot 25 free throws instead of 15!
 

Turinturumbar

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Agbaji gets knocked sideways driving to the bucket and no call. Braun almost touches Allen on a jumper and it’s a foul. Surely they jest! Don’t they know KU is supposed to get the calls?
 

ExitFlagger

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You’re wrong. That isn’t a full house. That’s the same 5 guys….and a couple friends. Thank god we always get the calls though. Otherwise, Texas might have shot 25 free throws instead of 15!
Numerous bad calls and no-calls have gone their way. Even Bilas has pointed out three or four.

But…only Phog!
 

Turinturumbar

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Jesus, these refs are awful. Mauling us every time we get down low. They FINALLY called one.
 

TechFan88

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I don't expect you to do extensive research, but a couple games and the remarks of known whiners like Huggins and Weber isn't exactly rock solid evidence.

38th best home foul advantage. That alone tells you that the reputation is way overblown.

Singling out one or two examples proves absolutely nothing. It would be like me saying that everyone gets a bad whistle in Lubbock, and my evidence is the 2005 game.

Yes, Texas brings 5 fans for everyone...but KU. And maybe Baylor now.

One thing they overlook in their analysis is intentional fouls. KU wins a lot more close games on the road than at home. When winning a close game, you’re always gonna end up shooting 4+ free throws at the end of a game. This distorts free throw discrepancies, because there are a lot of games where opponents shoot more free throws than KU the first 39 minutes, but then intentionally foul KU at the end to basically even up the foul shots. I saw somebody do this same analysis a while back while removing intentional free throws, and KU’s free throw discrepancy was middle of the pack in the big 12.

For every “Svi traveling with the ball” situation that benefits KU, I’ve got a story that goes against KU. Like when the ISU player literally put his hand through the rim to goaltend a shot that could have won it for KU, but the ref missed it. Or the Mizzou player who took 5 steps to hit a game winning shot in Columbia, ref holding his whistle when Tech was trying to intentionally foul KU’s Miles at the end, which directly led to Tech winning, a KSU(I think) three where the ref missed that his foot was on the line, and that extra point lost it for KU, literally any road game against WVU when Huggins was running his full court pressure… I’ve got a million examples.

You will of course hold onto the ones that benefit KU, but not notice the ones that hurt KU. It’s called sour grapes. It’s an internal bias you have. And hey, I get it. I sometimes feel the same way when watching DUKE play or Bama/Texas in football. You want a successful program to lose, and as a result you become invested in them losing, which puts your blinders on. I feel Duke gets calls, but if I’m honest with myself, no they don’t. They’re just good and well coached and I want them to lose, so I notice things more when they benefit them. It is what it is. We all experience bias. I’d be surprised if you didn’t. KU has dominated the Big XII for so long it makes sense. I’d want to see KU lose too, if I weren’t a KU fan.

It was a Double OT game in 2005. Y'all are saying the reason you didn't win is because the refs call a travel instead of a foul in the 2nd OT? Okay so why didn't you win in regulation or the first OT?

I mean in the 2 OT game at Kansas recently. We had 46 points in the paint which was more than KU. We shot less 3s than KU. But somehow went to the line less than KU. Also we were not trying to intentionally foul so you can't use that here. The no foul at 1:28 in regulation despite Braun jumping into Obanor who finishes through the contact. Then TTU gets called for a reach in foul on Agbaji with 40.8?

Start of OT ball clearly goes out off of Braun but somehow KU ball. 2:31 McCormick pushes Shannon down to the ground as he goes for the rebound and we play on.

2 OT - Reach in foul on McCullar 3:39 they were not calling the other way. 16.8 Wilson runs over McCullar and nothing.
 

Big_C_KU

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That game KU just completely threw away. So many dumb decisions especially late in each half. Self coached a poor game especially the first half. Can’t miss last 5 FTs of the close game on the road and expect to pull it out. Just a complete **** up by KU this game that may end up costing them the Big 12 as Tech continues to roll.
 

Big_C_KU

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KU’s 4 losses have seen them piss 2 of the games away with purely stupid play. The other 2 they just got their ass-kicked. I wouldn’t bet on this team making it past the 2nd round. Just too much dumb play.
 

Turinturumbar

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It was a Double OT game in 2005. Y'all are saying the reason you didn't win is because the refs call a travel instead of a foul in the 2nd OT? Okay so why didn't you win in regulation or the first OT?

I mean in the 2 OT game at Kansas recently. We had 46 points in the paint which was more than KU. We shot less 3s than KU. But somehow went to the line less than KU. Also we were not trying to intentionally foul so you can't use that here. The no foul at 1:28 in regulation despite Braun jumping into Obanor who finishes through the contact. Then TTU gets called for a reach in foul on Agbaji with 40.8?

Start of OT ball clearly goes out off of Braun but somehow KU ball. 2:31 McCormick pushes Shannon down to the ground as he goes for the rebound and we play on.

2 OT - Reach in foul on McCullar 3:39 they were not calling the other way. 16.8 Wilson runs over McCullar and nothing.
Regarding your first point, don’t be an idiot. Miles rebounded the Tech miss with 6 seconds left and a two point lead. If the refs call the foul there like they should have, KU wins. There’s no if and or but about it. What happened prior to that is irrelevant.

Regarding the rest of your post. Jesus, just ****ing get over it. First, just because KU got to the line more does not mean the calls were unfair. Tech plays tough defense, you’re going to get called for more fouls when you play tough defense. Yeah that one was off Braun, but there was one shortly before that which was off Tech and also should have been over the back, but they gave the ball to Tech. Calls are missed. But even IF KU got the benefit of the whistle in that game, so what? KU got hammered by the refs tonight in Austin in front of those “5 fans”. It ****ing happens. We’re used to it. Tech has a program now, quit bitching and get used to it, because if you keep the program strong for long enough, you’ll have to deal with crowds like that and officiating like that EVERY NIGHT.

I sure don’t see you apologizing for shooting 38 FTs to ISU’s 15, or 30 to Texas’ 20, or 36 to West Virginia’s 22, and etc etc etc.
 

Turinturumbar

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KU’s 4 losses have seen them piss 2 of the games away with purely stupid play. The other 2 they just got their ass-kicked. I wouldn’t bet on this team making it past the 2nd round. Just too much dumb play.
I don’t know. I think we’ve been playing better since the UK game. I though we played tough in a tough road game against an amped up opponent with talent. Despite this and despite getting a tough whistle(imo), it still took a banked in three and Agbaji missing an easy alley-oop to lose this game. That’s a bit of bad luck, not poor play.
 

TechFan88

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I won't apologize for our Duke/Kansas wins.

Tough break against Texas. I was rooting for y'all despite this actually helps us.
 

ExitFlagger

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KU’s 4 losses have seen them piss 2 of the games away with purely stupid play. The other 2 they just got their ass-kicked. I wouldn’t bet on this team making it past the 2nd round. Just too much dumb play.

They just shot 58% on the road against a Kenpom top 10 defense. It’s frustrating as hell to piss away an opportunity like that, but I’m not sure why you’d come away from it feeling poorly about their abilities.

If your biggest problems are FTs and careless TOs, that’s not a terrible place to be.