Kansas vs Baylor

Big_C_KU

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Going to be an interesting matchup of 2 teams who could be missing key players. Remy expected to be out again and Agbaji will be a game time decision needing a negative test to play. Not sure on the status of Flagler and Cryer for Baylor. KU very much has a long streak in danger of being snapped. KU hasn’t lost 2 straight home games since 1989 when they lost 4 straight.
 

ExitFlagger

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Definitely need Agbaji for this one. Would be nice to have a healthy Martin, but he'd probably get abused on the defensive end.
 

wesr

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Ochai is playing this weekend and has been cleared to play
 

RockChalk82

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If Cryer plays for Baylor. I have Baylor. They’re just a better team.

fully healthy they haven’t lost a game yet

top 2 scorers out for their 3 losses.
Akinjo first two. Cryer the last w bama
 

Fight r8rs Fight!

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If Cryer plays for Baylor. I have Baylor. They’re just a better team.

fully healthy they haven’t lost a game yet

top 2 scorers out for their 3 losses.
Akinjo first two. Cryer the last w bama
Yeah, that's not accurate. They were only missing Sochan when Tech beat them and Tech was missing Shannon and only had 60% McCullar.
 

TechFan88

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I guess I'm rooting for Baylor. Since KU is ahead in the standings, we split with KU, and have another shot at Baylor.
 

Villian07

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I jist hooe everyone plays for both teams so we can get a semi look at the class of the big 12 (no offense ttu ur solid as well, just a notch below imo)
 

kyjeff1

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Has the gynochologist cleared Kansas to play? Typically they don't allow pregnant woment to play contact sports.

Just kidding, or am I? 😁
 
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Turinturumbar

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KU winning big but they aren’t even shooting well. Missed a lot of open looks. We’ve just played solid defense and Baylor has not played good defense at all.
 

ravenman10

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If teams aren’t making shot Kansas is great at getting out and running. You have to make shots to keep them out of transition and take good shots. Long rebounds are death against Kansas.
 

TechFan88

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So Baylor and ISU not helping me out at all today.
 
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coryfly

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That was a brutally bad call against Baylor there. Dude got hacked from both sides and they called a charge on him, lol. I may have gotten tossed on that one. Not that it matters.
 

Big_C_KU

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That was a brutally bad call against Baylor there. Dude got hacked from both sides and they called a charge on him, lol. I may have gotten tossed on that one. Not that it matters.

That was an awful against Baylor. Foul came before the charge.

What’s awful is Fran spending the next 20 minutes giving out and crying about KU getting calls at home. Every team gets calls at home and the better teams more of those calls than the bad teams.

Kind of pathetic a coach that whines about specific calls in a game from a year ago. Every coach can bring up missed calls against their team from every game. This coming from the same coach who is known to yell when on the road when the opponent is shooting a FT to try and cause a distraction.
 

TechFan88

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That was an awful against Baylor. Foul came before the charge.

What’s awful is Fran spending the next 20 minutes giving out and crying about KU getting calls at home. Every team gets calls at home and the better teams more of those calls than the bad teams.

Kind of pathetic a coach that whines about specific calls in a game from a year ago. Every coach can bring up missed calls against their team from every game. This coming from the same coach who is known to yell when on the road when the opponent is shooting a FT to try and cause a distraction.
I mean yeah but he’s not wrong. We are starting to get Duke wins at home like Kansas but we didn’t always. If we did we wouldn’t have so many close loses to KU at home.
 

ExitFlagger

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I mean yeah but he’s not wrong. We are starting to get Duke wins at home like Kansas but we didn’t always. If we did we wouldn’t have so many close loses to KU at home.
Maybe because your crowds are much better?

It’s the crowd that influences refs. KU gets screwed on the road all the time.

And they certainly don’t get every call at home. People just zero in like hawks on the ones that go their way.
 

Big_C_KU

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Baylor just can’t make anything including wide-open layups.
 

Turinturumbar

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I mean yeah but he’s not wrong. We are starting to get Duke wins at home like Kansas but we didn’t always. If we did we wouldn’t have so many close loses to KU at home.
I remember a year when TT beat KU at the end. Our guard got the ball and was literally holding onto it to run time out while two or three Tech players were harassing him trying to intentionally foul him. The ref held his whistle and they called a travel or something like that against our guard. He literally had a black eye from getting smacked in the face. Tech got the ball back, hit a shot and won the game. If they just called the foul, like when Tech was intentionally trying to foul, KU wins that game.

That’s just an example. Yes KU gets calls at home, as do all big programs that have good home crowds. But what people don’t consider is that every time KU plays on the road(insert any other major program), we go into a hostile environment. Usually the only sellout of the year, and some kind of gimmicky “white-out”. We get nailed with bad calls on the road every hit as often as we get a good whistle at home. And considering the fact that we lose far more close games on the road than we have close wins at home, I’d bet that the net benefit of bad calls is in the negative for us.
 
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TechFan88

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Maybe because your crowds are much better?

It’s the crowd that influences refs. KU gets screwed on the road all the time.

And they certainly don’t get every call at home. People just zero in like hawks on the ones that go their way.
We usually have big crowds for Kansas.

Some close games TTU vs Kansas in Lubbock.
2014 - Lost 64-63 at home. Kansas 22-30 FT & 16 PF. Tech 9-14 & 21 PF. 84% capacity.
2017 - Lost 80-79 at home. 79-79 foul called on Tech with 2.8 seconds left. Josh Jackson went 1-2. 91.4% Capacity.
2020 - Lost 66-62 at home. Kansas 12-20 FT & 15 PF. Tech 8-13 & 17 PF. 100% Capacity.
 

Big_C_KU

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God I hate large portion of the KU student section. KU is above stupid “overrated” chants demeaning your own victory by these kids just don’t get it. At some point they’re going to rush the court and get booed off the court like they did against Texas in 2003 and vs Baylor last year.
 
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ExitFlagger

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We usually have big crowds for Kansas.

Some close games TTU vs Kansas in Lubbock.
2014 - Lost 64-63 at home. Kansas 22-30 FT & 16 PF. Tech 9-14 & 21 PF. 84% capacity.
2017 - Lost 80-79 at home. 79-79 foul called on Tech with 2.8 seconds left. Josh Jackson went 1-2. 91.4% Capacity.
2020 - Lost 66-62 at home. Kansas 12-20 FT & 15 PF. Tech 8-13 & 17 PF. 100% Capacity.

What are these supposed to prove? That Tech didn't get a good whistle?

For starters, I doubt that the atmosphere was very hostile in 2014 or 2017.

And second, you'd agree that a team with Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Frank Mason, etc was a bit more athletic than whoever Tech had that year, right? I don't think 21 PF to 16 is surprising or indicative of a bad whistle.

Was the Josh Jackson call considered a terrible call? I don't remember it.

And 17-15 PF in 2020? What's the big deal? KU had a monster big man who got the hack a Shaq treatment routinely and a speedy PG who got to the rim at will. A slight advantage in fouls doesn't mean you didn't get a good whistle.
 

Turinturumbar

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We usually have big crowds for Kansas.

Some close games TTU vs Kansas in Lubbock.
2014 - Lost 64-63 at home. Kansas 22-30 FT & 16 PF. Tech 9-14 & 21 PF. 84% capacity.
2017 - Lost 80-79 at home. 79-79 foul called on Tech with 2.8 seconds left. Josh Jackson went 1-2. 91.4% Capacity.
2020 - Lost 66-62 at home. Kansas 12-20 FT & 15 PF. Tech 8-13 & 17 PF. 100% Capacity.
Jesus, if I had a dollar for every close game we’ve lost on the road where we got F’d in the A by bad officiating, I’d take you out to dinner right now. Lost a few close ones at home for the same(that Marcus Smart flop possibly being the worst).

Anyway, regarding those three games above, you’ve really only got an argument on one. In 2020, you were shooting jumpers and KU was driving. As it is, 5 of KU’s free throws came at the end of the game when Tech was intentionally fouling. Take that away and the free throws are pretty much even, in a game where Tech was shooting jumpers and KU was scoring in the paint.

‘17, there was minimal contact and Jackson flopped. Ref should have held the whistle. Even so, the game was tied up, so even if the ref holds his whistle, the game still goes to OT, so not remotely a guarantee you win anyway.

In 2014 you guys simply fouled more. Most of those free throws were by Embiid and Wiggins. Tech was hacking them as soon as they got into the paint. You didn’t have anybody who could guard them straight up, and that tends to result in fouls.

So yeah, you’ve got an argument in ‘17. Not the other two.
 

Turinturumbar

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What are these supposed to prove? That Tech didn't get a good whistle?

For starters, I doubt that the atmosphere was very hostile in 2014 or 2017.

And second, you'd agree that a team with Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Frank Mason, etc was a bit more athletic than whoever Tech had that year, right? I don't think 21 PF to 16 is surprising or indicative of a bad whistle.

Was the Josh Jackson call considered a terrible call? I don't remember it.

And 17-15 PF in 2020? What's the big deal? KU had a monster big man who got the hack a Shaq treatment routinely and a speedy PG who got to the rim at will. A slight advantage in fouls doesn't mean you didn't get a good whistle.
The Josh Jackson foul was technically a foul, but he has an argument on that one. Jackson sold that foul by flopping. Should have held the whistle.
 

ExitFlagger

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Snapped Baylor's 9-game win streak vs AP top 10 teams.

9 in a row is impressive.
 

TechFan88

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What are these supposed to prove? That Tech didn't get a good whistle?

For starters, I doubt that the atmosphere was very hostile in 2014 or 2017.

And second, you'd agree that a team with Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Frank Mason, etc was a bit more athletic than whoever Tech had that year, right? I don't think 21 PF to 16 is surprising or indicative of a bad whistle.

Was the Josh Jackson call considered a terrible call? I don't remember it.

And 17-15 PF in 2020? What's the big deal? KU had a monster big man who got the hack a Shaq treatment routinely and a speedy PG who got to the rim at will. A slight advantage in fouls doesn't mean you didn't get a good whistle.

We had hostile environments for Kansas since when Bob Knight was coaching.

Jesus, if I had a dollar for every close game we’ve lost on the road where we got F’d in the A by bad officiating, I’d take you out to dinner right now. Lost a few close ones at home for the same(that Marcus Smart flop possibly being the worst).

Anyway, regarding those three games above, you’ve really only got an argument on one. In 2020, you were shooting jumpers and KU was driving. As it is, 5 of KU’s free throws came at the end of the game when Tech was intentionally fouling. Take that away and the free throws are pretty much even, in a game where Tech was shooting jumpers and KU was scoring in the paint.

‘17, there was minimal contact and Jackson flopped. Ref should have held the whistle. Even so, the game was tied up, so even if the ref holds his whistle, the game still goes to OT, so not remotely a guarantee you win anyway.

In 2014 you guys simply fouled more. Most of those free throws were by Embiid and Wiggins. Tech was hacking them as soon as they got into the paint. You didn’t have anybody who could guard them straight up, and that tends to result in fouls.

So yeah, you’ve got an argument in ‘17. Not the other two.

2020 - TTU had 26 points in the paint vs 22 for Kansas. But we were settling for jumpers while KU was scoring in the paint?

2017 - He flopped and refs would have swallowed the whistle at Phog Allen if a visiting player did that.

2014 - Did we foul some? Sure. But by no means were we playing hack a Embid and Wiggins. But KU went to the line 11 more times than they averaged for that entire season.
 

Big_C_KU

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We had hostile environments for Kansas since when Bob Knight was coaching.



2020 - TTU had 26 points in the paint vs 22 for Kansas. But we were settling for jumpers while KU was scoring in the paint?

2017 - He flopped and refs would have swallowed the whistle at Phog Allen if a visiting player did that.

2014 - Did we foul some? Sure. But by no means were we playing hack a Embid and Wiggins. But KU went to the line 11 more times than they averaged for that entire season.

In 2020 @Tech, Tech attempted 9 more 3s than KU in that game while only attempting 1 more shot overall for the game. The foul difference before Tech started fouling intentionally to extend the game was actually in favor of Tech with 15 fouls called on KU and 14 fouls called on Tech. The FTA difference was only 2 FTs in favor of KU despite having less fouls meaning KU draw more shooting fouls than Tech. If you look at the the shot chart not only did Tech attempt more 3s but they attempted a ton more mid-range shots that game.

2017 I remember an angle showed the Tech players with his arm in JJ side. There was contact but JJ sold the foul big time.

2014 the numbers were pretty lopsided. No arguing that.
 

ExitFlagger

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We had hostile environments for Kansas since when Bob Knight was coaching.



2020 - TTU had 26 points in the paint vs 22 for Kansas. But we were settling for jumpers while KU was scoring in the paint?

2017 - He flopped and refs would have swallowed the whistle at Phog Allen if a visiting player did that.

2014 - Did we foul some? Sure. But by no means were we playing hack a Embid and Wiggins. But KU went to the line 11 more times than they averaged for that entire season.

I doubt that a gym at 80% capacity came anywhere close to matching the atmosphere at AFH. Especially for a weak team.

Kenpom gives KU a 3.7 point home court advantage, which is 42nd in D-1. Not that I put a lot of stock in such things, but it’s better than Fran’s random “AFH is a 10 point advantage” analysis. I think it’s funny that, in the same broadcast, he also said that officials get the calls right 95% of the time.

The Big 12 is rated #1 for home court advantage. Far above the likes of the ACC or BE. It makes sense that the team that has historically dominated the league, and tends to have one of the most athletic and well-coached teams in the league, plus the loudest crowds, would be perceived to get a much better whistle at home than other programs in the league. That doesn’t mean it’s true.

Big 12 fans put every call that favors KU under the microscope. Which isn’t surprising, but you have to at least admit the possibility of bias. No one seems to care much if a controversial call benefits K-State or TCU.
 

ExitFlagger

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10903014.jpeg

😂
 

Turinturumbar

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We had hostile environments for Kansas since when Bob Knight was coaching.



2020 - TTU had 26 points in the paint vs 22 for Kansas. But we were settling for jumpers while KU was scoring in the paint?

2017 - He flopped and refs would have swallowed the whistle at Phog Allen if a visiting player did that.

2014 - Did we foul some? Sure. But by no means were we playing hack a Embid and Wiggins. But KU went to the line 11 more times than they averaged for that entire season.
2020 - When you foul a guy and he doesn’t score, but then hits the free throws, it doesn’t count as points in the paint. And again, you were intentionally fouling us late. That artificially adds on to our fouls.

2017 - That’s bullshit. We have had that call go against us in AFH. Multiple times. One time we won it in overtime, and other times, free throws were missed. But there was one we lost too if memory serves me right. Then there’s the Marcus Smart flop. That one cost us the game and the replay showed it was a flop.

2014 - I’m not saying you were intentionally fouling them. Your players were just jacked/hyped because you were playing KU and had a chance to win. They couldn’t guard them straight up though. Isn’t it weird how athletic players seem to get to the FT line a lot?

Do you remember the 2005 game? Tech missed with like 7 seconds left. Aaron Miles rebounds the ball. Tech players surrounded Miles and were intentionally trying to foul Miles due to the situation. They probably fouled him 5 times, including a smack to the face that resulted in a black eye. Ref swallowed his whistle and then called a travel on Miles when he tried to whip himself out of the foul fest. Tech then scored and won the game.

So at best, you have the ‘17 game which you can’t say cost you the game since you still would have had to win it in overtime. While we know for sure that the bad call/no call in the ‘05 game lost the game for KU.
 

TechFan88

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2020 - When you foul a guy and he doesn’t score, but then hits the free throws, it doesn’t count as points in the paint. And again, you were intentionally fouling us late. That artificially adds on to our fouls.

2017 - That’s bullshit. We have had that call go against us in AFH. Multiple times. One time we won it in overtime, and other times, free throws were missed. But there was one we lost too if memory serves me right. Then there’s the Marcus Smart flop. That one cost us the game and the replay showed it was a flop.

2014 - I’m not saying you were intentionally fouling them. Your players were just jacked/hyped because you were playing KU and had a chance to win. They couldn’t guard them straight up though. Isn’t it weird how athletic players seem to get to the FT line a lot?

Do you remember the 2005 game? Tech missed with like 7 seconds left. Aaron Miles rebounds the ball. Tech players surrounded Miles and were intentionally trying to foul Miles due to the situation. They probably fouled him 5 times, including a smack to the face that resulted in a black eye. Ref swallowed his whistle and then called a travel on Miles when he tried to whip himself out of the foul fest. Tech then scored and won the game.

So at best, you have the ‘17 game which you can’t say cost you the game since you still would have had to win it in overtime. While we know for sure that the bad call/no call in the ‘05 game lost the game for KU.

TTU website says we had 26 points in the paint to 22 points in the paint for KU. Take it up with them. You can literally see our points in the paint on the highlights. Also when did we intentionally foul?


I'll admit 2005 was a Phog win if you admit 2017 was a Phog win for Kansas. Also in 2005 we had Bobby Knight to put the fear of god into the Refs. Also we all had our issues with Marcus Smart.

2014 was a Duke win in Lubbock. We had some front court players. Our unathletic front court managed to score 39 points and got to the line a combined 6 times.
 

ExitFlagger

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TTU website says we had 26 points in the paint to 22 points in the paint for KU. Take it up with them. You can literally see our points in the paint on the highlights. Also when did we intentionally foul?



I'll admit 2005 was a Phog win if you admit 2017 was a Phog win for Kansas. Also in 2005 we had Bobby Knight to put the fear of god into the Refs. Also we all had our issues with Marcus Smart.

2014 was a Duke win in Lubbock. We had some front court players. Our unathletic front court managed to score 39 points and got to the line a combined 6 times.

He was referring to the game from the 2020 season. You're talking about last season now. Both were in the 2020 calendar year.

I'm not even sure what your argument is at this point. That KU gets far more calls at home than anyone else in the league AND there's a conspiracy among officials to give them calls on the road too?

While you're on the topic of "Phog wins," can you list several examples of actual Phog wins? If there's a name for it, there must be a lot of notorious ones. There was the controversial no-call for traveling on the game-winning score against K-State 5 years ago. Others?

Do you acknowledge that KU regularly faces crowds on the road that other Big 12 teams don't, and that these hostile environments impact officiating? How often do other Big 12 teams walk into a packed and hostile arena in Manhattan or Fort Worth?
 

Turinturumbar

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TTU website says we had 26 points in the paint to 22 points in the paint for KU. Take it up with them. You can literally see our points in the paint on the highlights. Also when did we intentionally foul?



I'll admit 2005 was a Phog win if you admit 2017 was a Phog win for Kansas. Also in 2005 we had Bobby Knight to put the fear of god into the Refs. Also we all had our issues with Marcus Smart.

2014 was a Duke win in Lubbock. We had some front court players. Our unathletic front court managed to score 39 points and got to the line a combined 6 times.
You intentionally fouled when KU went up 63-59 with 40 seconds left then Tech missed a jumper and KU got the rebound. Tech then intentionally fouled KU the next 3 times, sending KU to the FT line 5 times(one was a missed front end), making the last 30 seconds last about 10 minutes.

And I’ll admit that ‘17 was a screw job against Tech while ‘05 was a screw job against KU. However, ‘17 didn’t necessarily win the game for KU, since the score was tied, so KU very well might have still won it in overtime.

I highly disagree on ‘14. It is not a coincidence that the two KU players who shot almost all of our free throws were 1st round picks who went on to become NBA all stars. When a less athletic player tries to guard an elite athlete like that, they tend to foul more. Especially when slashing to the bucket. We both know that refs tend to swallow the whistle more and let players be more physics when guarding back to the basket front court players. Meanwhile refs are quick to blow the whistle when players slash to the basket and have their path interrupted. Guards and forwards are more coddled. Wiggins in particular drew a ton of fouls. He was to quick for most to guard and slow defenders sent him to the free throw line a lot. Embiid may be a front court player, but he didn’t play like one. He slashed to the bucket like a forward quite often. Those two accounted for a lot of foul shots in a lot of games.
 

TechFan88

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He was referring to the game from the 2020 season. You're talking about last season now. Both were in the 2020 calendar year.

I'm not even sure what your argument is at this point. That KU gets far more calls at home than anyone else in the league AND there's a conspiracy among officials to give them calls on the road too?

While you're on the topic of "Phog wins," can you list several examples of actual Phog wins? If there's a name for it, there must be a lot of notorious ones. There was the controversial no-call for traveling on the game-winning score against K-State 5 years ago. Others?

Do you acknowledge that KU regularly faces crowds on the road that other Big 12 teams don't, and that these hostile environments impact officiating? How often do other Big 12 teams walk into a packed and hostile arena in Manhattan or Fort Worth?
Okay,

Kansas has attempted 532 more free throws than its opponents in Big 12 games at Allen Fieldhouse since the start of the 2004-05 season, the equivalent of 4.55 extra foul shots per game during that span. College basketball statistics guru Ken Pomeroy told Yahoo Sports that home teams across the sport have shot an average of 2.35 more free throws per game than road teams in conference play since he began compiling the statistic in 2002.

Of course, Kansas is also well above the national average at drawing fouls in conference road games. Pomeroy said the Jayhawks have shot only 0.28 less free throws per game than their opponents since 2002 while on the road in Big 12 play.

Svi running with the ball vs KSU is a great example of a “Phog” win. 2012 Missouri had some interesting calls.

I think refs give Kansas the benefit of the doubt. Im sure KSU and ISU offers a nice hostile crowd. I'm not sure how hostile YCU gets. We generally pack TCU for our game there.