My revised Top 25 (+5) from May

ThePhog08

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May 2, 2008
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In May I posted my top 25 but after the final recruits committed, transfers are all but done, and we have heard some rumors on practices I think it is time.
I put a ton of emphasis on projected freshmen to sophmore improvements, coaching changes, transfers ect. After reflection I have a couple big surprises.

#1. Gonzaga

PG Nolan Hickman
SG Malachai Smith
SG Rasir Bolton
F Julian Strawther
F Drew Timme

There is so many combos Mark Few can use. I would even consider having Bolton off the bench and have Sallis in the backcourt too. Or move Strawther to SF Timme to PF and Efton Reid start at Center. My reason for the zags at #1 is I expect Nolan Hickman to take a big step forward, and Efton Reid being added to the frontcourt. Smith is good but won't put up nearly the same PPG.

#2. Houston

PG Jamal Sheed
SG Marcus Sasser
SG Tramon Mark
PF Jarace Walker
C J'wan Roberts

I think Jarace Walker is going to be a flat out stud, I think the American conference is weak and I love the cougar guards.

#3. North Carolina

C Armando Bacot
F Pete Nance
F Leaky Black
G Caleb Love
G RJ Davis

Part of me thinks this is too high . UNC deserved every bit of that 8 seed. And what seed would they have been losing to Duke in Cameron? Double digits? This team did lose to Pitt. Not clowning but UNC did a miracle run. That doesn't mean they don't have talent. Bacot and love were 5 star recruits. Davis and Black were top 60 players. The biggest thing is chemistry. I think they have amazing chemistry and Bacot is a stud. Manek is a big loss for sure.

#4. Duke

C Derek Lively
F Kyle Filipowski
F Dariq Whitehead
G Jacob Grandison
G Jeremy Roach

I would take the 2019, 2020 and 2022 Bluedevils over this Duke team. However Duke is going to be tough to score on. I love the transfers they had come in for depth. I think Roach will have really matured and has the reigns and keys to the car. Out of all the teams I could have had here, I give the edge to Duke. Obviously Scheye is an unknown as far as coaching prowess.

#5. Tennessee

PG Zakai Zeigler
SG Santiago Vescovi
F Julian Phillips
F Josiah Jordan-James
C Olivier Nkamhoua/ Jonas Aidoo

MY BIG SURPRISE

This is the most slept on team in the country by far. I think they will win the SEC and be a final four team. The fact some have arkansas ahead of them is astounding to me. Tennessee was a 3 seed everyone thought should have been a 2 seed. They return their 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th leading scorers. They lose Kennedy Chandler. Huge loss. But bring in McDonalds all american Julian Phillips, who is ranked higher on 247 than Anthony Black, Brandon Whitmore, Jordan Walsh and Brandon Miller. Jonas Aidoo had a disappointing freshman year at 2.1 PPG. But he was a 5 star recruit and it 7 feet tall. For depth they brought in Tyreke Key from Indiana state who scored 17.2 PPG last year. Zeiglar is a SO now and I think has all the tools to lead.

#6. Kentucky

F Oscar Tshiebwe
F Jacob Toppin
G Antonio Reeves
G Cason Wallace
G Shavir Wheeler

I am not sold on UK. I think , if healthy, last years UK team is better. 20 ppg mid major transfers have not shown much since the portal began. Jacob Toppin is an all-american off season guy for the 3rd straight year. He has never done anything regular season. Shavir Wheeler is nothing special . CJ hasn't played in a year. But what they do have is Cason Wallace and Oscar Tshiebwe , who is an animal.

#7. Kansas

C Zach Clemence
F Jalen Wilson
F Gradey Dick
G Kevin McCullar
G Dejuan Harris

I love the attach of the forwards approach KU implemented last year. KU has a ton this year, Wilson, Dick, Rice, McCullar. KU brings in 3 burger boys for the first time since the stone age it feels like. KU has a 3 pt shooting center in Clemence and a shot blocking center in Udeh . I think KU is the B12 best.

#8. Baylor

C Flo Thamba
F Jalen Bridges
G LJ Cryer
G Adam Flagler
G Keyonte George

This will be the least talented Baylor team since 2019 but that is okay. The have the defensive titans down low. Double digit scoring vets. Can one and doner George lead the team as a freshmen.

#9. Arizona

C Oumar Ballo
F Azuolas Tubelis
G Courtney Ramey
G Pelle Larsson
G Kerr Krissa

My next surprise. I believe AZ has a much higher ceiling and will be better than other Pac 12 teams rated high by experts. I think Krissa will be a break out star. I think Ramey is a steady vet able to lead. I think they are big and deep. there isn't a big difference in teams here on out.

#10. Texas

F Dylan Disu
F Timmy Allen
F Dillon Mitchell
G Marcus Carr
G Tyrese Hunter

Texas needs a big time scorer to justify this ranking and Dillon Mitchell seems like that guy. These team will be one of the best defensive teams in the country.

#11. Indiana

F Trayce Jackson-Davis
F Race Thompson
G Miller Kopp
G Jalen Hood-Schifino
G Xavier Johnson

This is easy. Bring back a potential first team AA. Bring back everyone of consequence. Bring in a couple really good recruits. I think most people are undervaluing the Hoosiers

#12. Creighton

C Ryan Kalkbrenner
F Arthur Kaluma
G Baylor Scheierman
G Trey Alexander
G Ryan Nembhard

I don't Creighton is top 10. I think people are overvaluing what Scheierman can do when he isn't the man. Creighton was a 9 seed and did lose 2 starters. There is a ton of turnover in the BE and Creighton has a chance to win the conference.

#13 UCLA

C Adem Bona
F Jaime Jaquez
G Jaylen Clark
G Amari Bailey
G Tyger Campbell

I am unsure how far Campbell and Jaquez can carry UCLA without bernard and juzang. UCLA does have Amari Bailey and Adem Bona coming in . They need clark to step up.

#14 Villanova

F Eric Dixon
F Cam Whitmore
F Caleb Daniels
G Justin Moore
G Chris Arcidiacono

I believe in the villanova culture , even with the coaching change. The big difference in Jon Scheyer and Kyle Neptune is Neptune gets 3 starters back. I think Cam Whitmore is a star

#15 Arkansas

F Makhel Mitchell
F Jordan Walsh
G Ricky Council
G Anthony Black
G Nick Smith

I think everyone, even me are overvaluing Arkansas. Nick Smith is a stud no doubt. Very rarely does a mostly freshmen led team make the FF with their best players being a PG. The combo of freshmen mixed with mid major transfers who've never played together does not seem like a good idea. And Black and Walsh aren't top 15 freshmen either. I think Alabama could be better. I have them this high to to the muss bus coaching prowess.

#16 TCU -bring back everyone who should have beaten Arizona
#17 Texas Tech - Great coaching and good transfers mixed with returners and freshmen
#18 Alabama - 2 big time freshmen with a big PG transfer and returned a couple decent returnees
#19 Oregon - I think last year was a one off for a down year. Kelil Ware is a beast
#20 Texas A&M - They should have made the tourney and they return everyone
#21 Dayton - 22 they were a almost all freshmen team. They gelled and had some big wins. They are sophs now and should improve.
#22 San Diego State - Going to take a big leap.
#23 Ohio State - I like the transfers
#24 Illinois - I love the transfers they brought in to mix with returners and sky moore
#25 Miami - Going to be another guard dominant team.

#26 Auburn
#27 Virginia
#28 Uconn
#29 Michigan
#30 Providence
#31 Purdue
#32 USC
#33 St Louis
#34 Seton Hall
#35 Stanford
 

cdbearde

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Mar 9, 2017
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@della
Get in here young lady!!!!!

UT, Final Four bound. 👍 👍
I know he has UT at 5, but I believe in you guys.
And it will be bad when you (as UT) make the final four and lose to us (as UK) but it would still be fun. ;) 😍
 
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lurkeraspect84

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Mar 4, 2014
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Instead of finding/starting a new thread. I hope it's ok to post this here.

FbWUAukaMAAx9y4
 
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della

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@della
Get in here young lady!!!!!

UT, Final Four bound. 👍 👍
I know he has UT at 5, but I believe in you guys.
And it will be bad when you (as UT) make the final four and lose to us (as UK) but it would still be fun. ;) 😍
If I have said it once I’ve said it 100 times I don’t celebrate getting our ass kicked. However, Phog’s eye for talent is remarkable.
 
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ExitFlagger

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May 2, 2015
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In May I posted my top 25 but after the final recruits committed, transfers are all but done, and we have heard some rumors on practices I think it is time.
I put a ton of emphasis on projected freshmen to sophmore improvements, coaching changes, transfers ect. After reflection I have a couple big surprises.

#1. Gonzaga

PG Nolan Hickman
SG Malachai Smith
SG Rasir Bolton
F Julian Strawther
F Drew Timme

There is so many combos Mark Few can use. I would even consider having Bolton off the bench and have Sallis in the backcourt too. Or move Strawther to SF Timme to PF and Efton Reid start at Center. My reason for the zags at #1 is I expect Nolan Hickman to take a big step forward, and Efton Reid being added to the frontcourt. Smith is good but won't put up nearly the same PPG.

#2. Houston

PG Jamal Sheed
SG Marcus Sasser
SG Tramon Mark
PF Jarace Walker
C J'wan Roberts

I think Jarace Walker is going to be a flat out stud, I think the American conference is weak and I love the cougar guards.

#3. North Carolina

C Armando Bacot
F Pete Nance
F Leaky Black
G Caleb Love
G RJ Davis

Part of me thinks this is too high . UNC deserved every bit of that 8 seed. And what seed would they have been losing to Duke in Cameron? Double digits? This team did lose to Pitt. Not clowning but UNC did a miracle run. That doesn't mean they don't have talent. Bacot and love were 5 star recruits. Davis and Black were top 60 players. The biggest thing is chemistry. I think they have amazing chemistry and Bacot is a stud. Manek is a big loss for sure.

#4. Duke

C Derek Lively
F Kyle Filipowski
F Dariq Whitehead
G Jacob Grandison
G Jeremy Roach

I would take the 2019, 2020 and 2022 Bluedevils over this Duke team. However Duke is going to be tough to score on. I love the transfers they had come in for depth. I think Roach will have really matured and has the reigns and keys to the car. Out of all the teams I could have had here, I give the edge to Duke. Obviously Scheye is an unknown as far as coaching prowess.

#5. Tennessee

PG Zakai Zeigler
SG Santiago Vescovi
F Julian Phillips
F Josiah Jordan-James
C Olivier Nkamhoua/ Jonas Aidoo

MY BIG SURPRISE

This is the most slept on team in the country by far. I think they will win the SEC and be a final four team. The fact some have arkansas ahead of them is astounding to me. Tennessee was a 3 seed everyone thought should have been a 2 seed. They return their 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th leading scorers. They lose Kennedy Chandler. Huge loss. But bring in McDonalds all american Julian Phillips, who is ranked higher on 247 than Anthony Black, Brandon Whitmore, Jordan Walsh and Brandon Miller. Jonas Aidoo had a disappointing freshman year at 2.1 PPG. But he was a 5 star recruit and it 7 feet tall. For depth they brought in Tyreke Key from Indiana state who scored 17.2 PPG last year. Zeiglar is a SO now and I think has all the tools to lead.

#6. Kentucky

F Oscar Tshiebwe
F Jacob Toppin
G Antonio Reeves
G Cason Wallace
G Shavir Wheeler

I am not sold on UK. I think , if healthy, last years UK team is better. 20 ppg mid major transfers have not shown much since the portal began. Jacob Toppin is an all-american off season guy for the 3rd straight year. He has never done anything regular season. Shavir Wheeler is nothing special . CJ hasn't played in a year. But what they do have is Cason Wallace and Oscar Tshiebwe , who is an animal.

#7. Kansas

C Zach Clemence
F Jalen Wilson
F Gradey Dick
G Kevin McCullar
G Dejuan Harris

I love the attach of the forwards approach KU implemented last year. KU has a ton this year, Wilson, Dick, Rice, McCullar. KU brings in 3 burger boys for the first time since the stone age it feels like. KU has a 3 pt shooting center in Clemence and a shot blocking center in Udeh . I think KU is the B12 best.

#8. Baylor

C Flo Thamba
F Jalen Bridges
G LJ Cryer
G Adam Flagler
G Keyonte George

This will be the least talented Baylor team since 2019 but that is okay. The have the defensive titans down low. Double digit scoring vets. Can one and doner George lead the team as a freshmen.

#9. Arizona

C Oumar Ballo
F Azuolas Tubelis
G Courtney Ramey
G Pelle Larsson
G Kerr Krissa

My next surprise. I believe AZ has a much higher ceiling and will be better than other Pac 12 teams rated high by experts. I think Krissa will be a break out star. I think Ramey is a steady vet able to lead. I think they are big and deep. there isn't a big difference in teams here on out.

#10. Texas

F Dylan Disu
F Timmy Allen
F Dillon Mitchell
G Marcus Carr
G Tyrese Hunter

Texas needs a big time scorer to justify this ranking and Dillon Mitchell seems like that guy. These team will be one of the best defensive teams in the country.

#11. Indiana

F Trayce Jackson-Davis
F Race Thompson
G Miller Kopp
G Jalen Hood-Schifino
G Xavier Johnson

This is easy. Bring back a potential first team AA. Bring back everyone of consequence. Bring in a couple really good recruits. I think most people are undervaluing the Hoosiers

#12. Creighton

C Ryan Kalkbrenner
F Arthur Kaluma
G Baylor Scheierman
G Trey Alexander
G Ryan Nembhard

I don't Creighton is top 10. I think people are overvaluing what Scheierman can do when he isn't the man. Creighton was a 9 seed and did lose 2 starters. There is a ton of turnover in the BE and Creighton has a chance to win the conference.

#13 UCLA

C Adem Bona
F Jaime Jaquez
G Jaylen Clark
G Amari Bailey
G Tyger Campbell

I am unsure how far Campbell and Jaquez can carry UCLA without bernard and juzang. UCLA does have Amari Bailey and Adem Bona coming in . They need clark to step up.

#14 Villanova

F Eric Dixon
F Cam Whitmore
F Caleb Daniels
G Justin Moore
G Chris Arcidiacono

I believe in the villanova culture , even with the coaching change. The big difference in Jon Scheyer and Kyle Neptune is Neptune gets 3 starters back. I think Cam Whitmore is a star

#15 Arkansas

F Makhel Mitchell
F Jordan Walsh
G Ricky Council
G Anthony Black
G Nick Smith

I think everyone, even me are overvaluing Arkansas. Nick Smith is a stud no doubt. Very rarely does a mostly freshmen led team make the FF with their best players being a PG. The combo of freshmen mixed with mid major transfers who've never played together does not seem like a good idea. And Black and Walsh aren't top 15 freshmen either. I think Alabama could be better. I have them this high to to the muss bus coaching prowess.

#16 TCU -bring back everyone who should have beaten Arizona
#17 Texas Tech - Great coaching and good transfers mixed with returners and freshmen
#18 Alabama - 2 big time freshmen with a big PG transfer and returned a couple decent returnees
#19 Oregon - I think last year was a one off for a down year. Kelil Ware is a beast
#20 Texas A&M - They should have made the tourney and they return everyone
#21 Dayton - 22 they were a almost all freshmen team. They gelled and had some big wins. They are sophs now and should improve.
#22 San Diego State - Going to take a big leap.
#23 Ohio State - I like the transfers
#24 Illinois - I love the transfers they brought in to mix with returners and sky moore
#25 Miami - Going to be another guard dominant team.

#26 Auburn
#27 Virginia
#28 Uconn
#29 Michigan
#30 Providence
#31 Purdue
#32 USC
#33 St Louis
#34 Seton Hall
#35 Stanford
If you’re trying to impress della, there are easier methods.

Or….are there….?
 

ExitFlagger

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May 2, 2015
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I don't understand this whole from 9 seed to top 5 ish. Makes no sense. When has this ever happened?

They were missing two of their best players. Still damn near took KU out in the tourney.

Youngish teams that bring back their top talent and add to it make big jumps all the time.

Oregon was terrible last year and lost more than Creighton and you have them at 19.
 
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KisteK

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Feb 3, 2012
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I dunno about top 5, but I know I'm going to be watching them a lot again this cycle. They look fun af

9 seed without their stud PG
while
8 seed UNC is in your top 3
 
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KisteK

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Feb 3, 2012
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I like Baylor more than both Tennessee and Kansas, hopefully the Bears can get/keep everyone healthy.

My top 25 would be an organizing of these, I'd think..
- Baylor/KU/UT/TCU/TT
- UK/Tenn/Ark/AU/Bama/aTm
- Creighton/Nova
- UNC/Duke/Virginia
- Indiana/Illinois
- UCLA/Zona
- Gonzaga/Hou/Wyoming/Dayton/SDSU
 
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JimboBBN

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Jan 26, 2016
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I think UK is better this year than last year but that’s not saying a ton. We have nice potential but our season will come down to Wheeler, and how well he will be able to score. We had our worst games last season when teams let him shoot it a lot.
 

hailtoyourvictor

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Dec 11, 2012
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In May I posted my top 25 but after the final recruits committed, transfers are all but done, and we have heard some rumors on practices I think it is time.
I put a ton of emphasis on projected freshmen to sophmore improvements, coaching changes, transfers ect. After reflection I have a couple big surprises.

#1. Gonzaga

PG Nolan Hickman
SG Malachai Smith
SG Rasir Bolton
F Julian Strawther
F Drew Timme

There is so many combos Mark Few can use. I would even consider having Bolton off the bench and have Sallis in the backcourt too. Or move Strawther to SF Timme to PF and Efton Reid start at Center. My reason for the zags at #1 is I expect Nolan Hickman to take a big step forward, and Efton Reid being added to the frontcourt. Smith is good but won't put up nearly the same PPG.

#2. Houston

PG Jamal Sheed
SG Marcus Sasser
SG Tramon Mark
PF Jarace Walker
C J'wan Roberts

I think Jarace Walker is going to be a flat out stud, I think the American conference is weak and I love the cougar guards.

#3. North Carolina

C Armando Bacot
F Pete Nance
F Leaky Black
G Caleb Love
G RJ Davis

Part of me thinks this is too high . UNC deserved every bit of that 8 seed. And what seed would they have been losing to Duke in Cameron? Double digits? This team did lose to Pitt. Not clowning but UNC did a miracle run. That doesn't mean they don't have talent. Bacot and love were 5 star recruits. Davis and Black were top 60 players. The biggest thing is chemistry. I think they have amazing chemistry and Bacot is a stud. Manek is a big loss for sure.

#4. Duke

C Derek Lively
F Kyle Filipowski
F Dariq Whitehead
G Jacob Grandison
G Jeremy Roach

I would take the 2019, 2020 and 2022 Bluedevils over this Duke team. However Duke is going to be tough to score on. I love the transfers they had come in for depth. I think Roach will have really matured and has the reigns and keys to the car. Out of all the teams I could have had here, I give the edge to Duke. Obviously Scheye is an unknown as far as coaching prowess.

#5. Tennessee

PG Zakai Zeigler
SG Santiago Vescovi
F Julian Phillips
F Josiah Jordan-James
C Olivier Nkamhoua/ Jonas Aidoo

MY BIG SURPRISE

This is the most slept on team in the country by far. I think they will win the SEC and be a final four team. The fact some have arkansas ahead of them is astounding to me. Tennessee was a 3 seed everyone thought should have been a 2 seed. They return their 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th leading scorers. They lose Kennedy Chandler. Huge loss. But bring in McDonalds all american Julian Phillips, who is ranked higher on 247 than Anthony Black, Brandon Whitmore, Jordan Walsh and Brandon Miller. Jonas Aidoo had a disappointing freshman year at 2.1 PPG. But he was a 5 star recruit and it 7 feet tall. For depth they brought in Tyreke Key from Indiana state who scored 17.2 PPG last year. Zeiglar is a SO now and I think has all the tools to lead.

#6. Kentucky

F Oscar Tshiebwe
F Jacob Toppin
G Antonio Reeves
G Cason Wallace
G Shavir Wheeler

I am not sold on UK. I think , if healthy, last years UK team is better. 20 ppg mid major transfers have not shown much since the portal began. Jacob Toppin is an all-american off season guy for the 3rd straight year. He has never done anything regular season. Shavir Wheeler is nothing special . CJ hasn't played in a year. But what they do have is Cason Wallace and Oscar Tshiebwe , who is an animal.

#7. Kansas

C Zach Clemence
F Jalen Wilson
F Gradey Dick
G Kevin McCullar
G Dejuan Harris

I love the attach of the forwards approach KU implemented last year. KU has a ton this year, Wilson, Dick, Rice, McCullar. KU brings in 3 burger boys for the first time since the stone age it feels like. KU has a 3 pt shooting center in Clemence and a shot blocking center in Udeh . I think KU is the B12 best.

#8. Baylor

C Flo Thamba
F Jalen Bridges
G LJ Cryer
G Adam Flagler
G Keyonte George

This will be the least talented Baylor team since 2019 but that is okay. The have the defensive titans down low. Double digit scoring vets. Can one and doner George lead the team as a freshmen.

#9. Arizona

C Oumar Ballo
F Azuolas Tubelis
G Courtney Ramey
G Pelle Larsson
G Kerr Krissa

My next surprise. I believe AZ has a much higher ceiling and will be better than other Pac 12 teams rated high by experts. I think Krissa will be a break out star. I think Ramey is a steady vet able to lead. I think they are big and deep. there isn't a big difference in teams here on out.

#10. Texas

F Dylan Disu
F Timmy Allen
F Dillon Mitchell
G Marcus Carr
G Tyrese Hunter

Texas needs a big time scorer to justify this ranking and Dillon Mitchell seems like that guy. These team will be one of the best defensive teams in the country.

#11. Indiana

F Trayce Jackson-Davis
F Race Thompson
G Miller Kopp
G Jalen Hood-Schifino
G Xavier Johnson

This is easy. Bring back a potential first team AA. Bring back everyone of consequence. Bring in a couple really good recruits. I think most people are undervaluing the Hoosiers

#12. Creighton

C Ryan Kalkbrenner
F Arthur Kaluma
G Baylor Scheierman
G Trey Alexander
G Ryan Nembhard

I don't Creighton is top 10. I think people are overvaluing what Scheierman can do when he isn't the man. Creighton was a 9 seed and did lose 2 starters. There is a ton of turnover in the BE and Creighton has a chance to win the conference.

#13 UCLA

C Adem Bona
F Jaime Jaquez
G Jaylen Clark
G Amari Bailey
G Tyger Campbell

I am unsure how far Campbell and Jaquez can carry UCLA without bernard and juzang. UCLA does have Amari Bailey and Adem Bona coming in . They need clark to step up.

#14 Villanova

F Eric Dixon
F Cam Whitmore
F Caleb Daniels
G Justin Moore
G Chris Arcidiacono

I believe in the villanova culture , even with the coaching change. The big difference in Jon Scheyer and Kyle Neptune is Neptune gets 3 starters back. I think Cam Whitmore is a star

#15 Arkansas

F Makhel Mitchell
F Jordan Walsh
G Ricky Council
G Anthony Black
G Nick Smith

I think everyone, even me are overvaluing Arkansas. Nick Smith is a stud no doubt. Very rarely does a mostly freshmen led team make the FF with their best players being a PG. The combo of freshmen mixed with mid major transfers who've never played together does not seem like a good idea. And Black and Walsh aren't top 15 freshmen either. I think Alabama could be better. I have them this high to to the muss bus coaching prowess.

#16 TCU -bring back everyone who should have beaten Arizona
#17 Texas Tech - Great coaching and good transfers mixed with returners and freshmen
#18 Alabama - 2 big time freshmen with a big PG transfer and returned a couple decent returnees
#19 Oregon - I think last year was a one off for a down year. Kelil Ware is a beast
#20 Texas A&M - They should have made the tourney and they return everyone
#21 Dayton - 22 they were a almost all freshmen team. They gelled and had some big wins. They are sophs now and should improve.
#22 San Diego State - Going to take a big leap.
#23 Ohio State - I like the transfers
#24 Illinois - I love the transfers they brought in to mix with returners and sky moore
#25 Miami - Going to be another guard dominant team.

#26 Auburn
#27 Virginia
#28 Uconn
#29 Michigan
#30 Providence
#31 Purdue
#32 USC
#33 St Louis
#34 Seton Hall
#35 Stanford

yikes
 
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ThePhog08

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May 2, 2008
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I like Baylor more than both Tennessee and Kansas, hopefully the Bears can get/keep everyone healthy.

My top 25 would be an organizing of these, I'd think..
- Baylor/KU/UT/TCU/TT
- UK/Tenn/Ark/AU/Bama/aTm
- Creighton/Nova
- UNC/Duke/Virginia
- Indiana/Illinois
- UCLA/Zona
- Gonzaga/Hou/Wyoming/Dayton/SDSU
Why Baylor though. I don't see anything special about Cryer/Flagler
 

Villian07

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2015
6,112
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I dunno about top 5, but I know I'm going to be watching them a lot again this cycle. They look fun af

9 seed without their stud PG
while
8 seed UNC is in your top 3
Unc made the title game. Seems a bit inportant to leave out by just saying they were an 8 seed.
 

della

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Gold Member
Dec 11, 2001
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Tennessee
For Tennessee to take the next step, we are going to have to slow down 10ft tall people that look like Bigfoot from hitting 3's from all over the court. So far, we have had no answers against Bigfoot.
Brady_Manek_North_Carolina.jpg

i
 
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dukedevilz

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Apr 3, 2002
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I don't understand this whole from 9 seed to top 5 ish. Makes no sense. When has this ever happened?
Happens all the time, actually.

2023
-UNC was an 8 seed last year. They're a consensus top 5 team.

2022
-Duke missed the tournament in 2021. Was a Final Four/top 10 team in 2022
-Arizona was ineligible for the 2021 tournament, but they were at best a bubble team. Net Ranking of 44
-Auburn was top 5ish for most of the season. They were sub .500 in 2021

2021
-Alabama was barely above .500 in 200. They finished #5 in the final AP Poll

2020
-Dayton missed the 2019 tournament and finished #3 in the final AP Poll.
-Baylor was a 9 seed in the 2019 tournament; finished #5 in the final AP Poll.
-San Diego State missed the tournament in 2019; finished #6 in the final AP Poll.

Outcomes are highly dependent on having 3-4 solid players. IMO, it's not asking a whole lot for a school to make a big leap in a game that has freakishly high turnover rates.

Pretty solid top 35 list, though.
 
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KisteK

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Gold Member
Feb 3, 2012
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Unc made the title game. Seems a bit inportant to leave out by just saying they were an 8 seed.
UNC was gifted a #1 who was without vital pieceS in the first round, then was gifted a 15 in the S16..
Seems important to leave all that out as well.

He was talking about placing a 9 seed in the top 5..
I'm not saying they're a top 5, but he's got an 8 seed in his top 3 based on tourney results that involved a lot of luck.
 

KisteK

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Why Baylor though. I don't see anything special about Cryer/Flagler
If they're healthy, there's no better duo (on paper) in the Big XII. That's before adding George and Love. And that's with Tekas having Hunter and Kansas having a shiny new ring and two returning starters.


Everyday Jon and a 10th season, 30 y/o Flo Thamba, on top of adding two quality transfer Fs. Bears look hella fun.

Kansas has gotta get either Yesufu or Pettiford rolling in that backup 1 spot or they'll look to play KM as primary backup. That won't work in this B12.
Imho
 
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Villian07

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I dont see Kansas at top 10, but admittedly i know way more about the guys they lost than the guys they are bringing in sans mccullar. Ive actually seen him play, hes solid. But im gonna habe to watch em play a few times before making any sort of relevant prediction. Same with duke, i dont think they will be as good as last year, but again i couldnt pick whitehead, filipkowski, insert any frosh here, out of a lineup.

i do agree that gonzaga will likely hit the tourney number 1 again, we will see if they can break thru and win one. They certainly have a solid roster, but they have for a few years in a row now.
 

Villian07

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UNC was gifted a #1 who was without vital pieceS in the first round, then was gifted a 15 in the S16..
Seems important to leave all that out as well.

He was talking about placing a 9 seed in the top 5..
I'm not saying they're a top 5, but he's got an 8 seed in his top 3 based on tourney results that involved a lot of luck.
Right but again u are talking about creighton and unc like they both made the final four last year, by comparing their seeds, when one went to the national title game and the other lost in the sweet 16. Granted to the same team.

Plus Baylor had been without dude for a while, right? And notched some pretty W’s without him as well. I mean do you think they didnt deserve a one seed? And st marys beat uk and purdue to get their, two popular final four picks. Not like unc got to pick their bracket.
 
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ExitFlagger

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I dont see Kansas at top 10, but admittedly i know way more about the guys they lost than the guys they are bringing in sans mccullar. Ive actually seen him play, hes solid. But im gonna habe to watch em play a few times before making any sort of relevant prediction. Same with duke, i dont think they will be as good as last year, but again i couldnt pick whitehead, filipkowski, insert any frosh here, out of a lineup.

i do agree that gonzaga will likely hit the tourney number 1 again, we will see if they can break thru and win one. They certainly have a solid roster, but they have for a few years in a row now.

KU is top 10 in every ranking I’ve seen. Usually around 6 or 7.

It’s never easy to predict the success of teams with a lot of new pieces and players taking on bigger roles, so I don’t have strong leanings one way or the other.

I’m pretty confident they’ll be very good from 2-4. I’m still not as sold on Harris as others are. People are quick to point out that he was the starting PG on a NC team, but without Remy’s scoring punch, they’re cooked. Maybe in the 2nd round. I think he needs to take another step offensively. And the 5 is a question mark. Plenty of talent at that spot, but young and unproven.

Gradey Dick was Gatorade player of the Year and is an excellent shooter. Rice is a smooth player who can score in a lot of ways. They seem to think Clemence is ready to break out. We’ll see.
 
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ExitFlagger

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Right but again u are talking about creighton and unc like they both made the final four last year, by comparing their seeds, when one went to the national title game and the other lost in the sweet 16. Granted to the same team.

Plus Baylor had been without dude for a while, right? And notched some pretty W’s without him as well. I mean do you think they didnt deserve a one seed? And st marys beat uk and purdue to get their, two popular final four picks. Not like unc got to pick their bracket.
Creighton was playing without their PG and star center. Still almost knocked off KU. How many teams do you think would be capable of that?

For example, what happens to UNC if Davis and Bacot were out?

They bring back most of the team and add some good pieces. Pretty much all the rankings have them either inside the top 10 or just outside.

Who cares about seeding anyway. We all know that teams are under/overseeded all the time.
 

KisteK

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Right but again u are talking about creighton and unc like they both made the final four last year, by comparing their seeds, when one went to the national title game and the other lost in the sweet 16. Granted to the same team.

Plus Baylor had been without dude for a while, right? And notched some pretty W’s without him as well. I mean do you think they didnt deserve a one seed? And st marys beat uk and purdue to get their, two popular final four picks. Not like unc got to pick their bracket.
St Mary's beat who?!

UNC and Creighton were both bottom feeders last bubble season. Found wins when they needed, only UNC was healthy and Creighton was not. Creighton loses another starter in their first round matchup, so they can't be a top whatever number returning team. Got it.

I'll choose to roll with, both have a load of talent, both brought in a name transfer and both should be near the top 5% in cbb this coming season.
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood

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OP thx for the read.

I have one team to add not sure who you should throw out - ND.

Irish return a ton of experience they got that continuity system. A total bore and maybe not as high of a ceiling but they are going to be in the T25.
 

KisteK

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Fwiw, I don't think Kansas is a top 10 team, either

I'd be pleasantly surprised if KU finishes higher than 3rd in conference.
I do, however, have faith in Harris.
My doubt lies with both scoring and defense (which is terrifying)..

-Doubt the backup 1 (no Remy this cycle) Harris' strength is his D, not gonna entertain asking him to increase his offense too much. I'm not a believer in Yesufu, abs Pettiford struggle bussed with injuries and at times played like a 3* freshman.

-Doubt the starting 5 (esp if it's a frosh)

While adding Kevin McCullar is awesome for our defense, he's not really a scorer.
No Remy or JCL off the bench for quick offense.
If the freshman wings struggle for a stretch, it could/will get ugly..
 

ThePhog08

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Fwiw, I don't think Kansas is a top 10 team, either

I'd be pleasantly surprised if KU finishes higher than 3rd in conference.
I do, however, have faith in Harris.
My doubt lies with both scoring and defense (which is terrifying)..

-Doubt the backup 1 (no Remy this cycle) Harris' strength is his D, not gonna entertain asking him to increase his offense too much. I'm not a believer in Yesufu, abs Pettiford struggle bussed with injuries and at times played like a 3* freshman.

-Doubt the starting 5 (esp if it's a frosh)

While adding Kevin McCullar is awesome for our defense, he's not really a scorer.
No Remy or JCL off the bench for quick offense.
If the freshman wings struggle for a stretch, it could/will get ugly..
Bill self has never , in 19 years, finished below 3 in the B12 and has never been lower than a 4 seed.
 

ExitFlagger

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Fwiw, I don't think Kansas is a top 10 team, either

I'd be pleasantly surprised if KU finishes higher than 3rd in conference.
I do, however, have faith in Harris.
My doubt lies with both scoring and defense (which is terrifying)..

-Doubt the backup 1 (no Remy this cycle) Harris' strength is his D, not gonna entertain asking him to increase his offense too much. I'm not a believer in Yesufu, abs Pettiford struggle bussed with injuries and at times played like a 3* freshman.

-Doubt the starting 5 (esp if it's a frosh)

While adding Kevin McCullar is awesome for our defense, he's not really a scorer.
No Remy or JCL off the bench for quick offense.
If the freshman wings struggle for a stretch, it could/will get ugly..

Don't forget that what seemed to be a hapless defensive team turned into a great one at the end of the year last season.

Defense is one thing I never sweat too much with Self at the helm. Unless he has a roster full of Brannen Greenes. But in this case, he's got two really good perimeter defenders and plenty of size/athleticism.

With guys like Wright and K gone, it’s hard for me to imagine ten coaches outdoing Self when he has a solid roster. They might struggle to figure everything out early, but I’m betting they’ll be there in the end.
 

ExitFlagger

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Bill self has never , in 19 years, finished below 3 in the B12 and has never been lower than a 4 seed.
This Big 12 is probably more loaded than a lot of those years. But yeah, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt after dominating the league for this long.
 
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AWilli6995

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Last time I checked no team is gifted an opponent in the tournament. Survive and advance, that’s the name of the game and as we all know higher seeds do lose. That’s what makes the tournament great.
 
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IUfanBorden

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Fwiw, I don't think Kansas is a top 10 team, either

I'd be pleasantly surprised if KU finishes higher than 3rd in conference.
I do, however, have faith in Harris.
My doubt lies with both scoring and defense (which is terrifying)..

-Doubt the backup 1 (no Remy this cycle) Harris' strength is his D, not gonna entertain asking him to increase his offense too much. I'm not a believer in Yesufu, abs Pettiford struggle bussed with injuries and at times played like a 3* freshman.

-Doubt the starting 5 (esp if it's a frosh)

While adding Kevin McCullar is awesome for our defense, he's not really a scorer.
No Remy or JCL off the bench for quick offense.
If the freshman wings struggle for a stretch, it could/will get ugly..
i never doubt self. he just wins.
 

KisteK

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I go back and forth btwn KU finishing second and third in conference.
Therefore, finishing higher than third would be awesome.

The Big XII is a much, much better conference now than when Kansas & Dolla Bill popped off 14 in a row.

I may Homer, but I try to keep a level head.
 
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IUfanBorden

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I go back and forth btwn KU finishing second and third in conference.
Therefore, finishing higher than third would be awesome.

The Big XII is a much, much better conference now than when Kansas & Dolla Bill popped off 14 in a row.

I may Homer, but I try to keep a level head.
I'd buy ya a beer.... 😎
 
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KisteK

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With over 9 quintillion ways a tourney can bounce, getting lucky is what every team should hope for.

Top teams falling early are absolute gifts to remaining teams (as well as cbb & providers).

Kansas was gifted a Creighton squad without Kalkbrenner and a S16 without the sexy Midwest F4 pick, the Iowa Fighting Frans.

In fact, I hope Kansas lucks tf out next cycle too; plays a 10 in their next E8 matchup and an 8 in their next title game.

Survive and Advance doesn't mean you weren't lucky and gifted a lesser opponent. But I love the salt, Talking-Points Guy.
 
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della

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With over 9 quintillion ways a tourney can bounce, getting lucky is what every team should hope for.

Top teams falling early are absolute gifts to remaining teams (as well as cbb & providers).

Kansas was gifted a Creighton squad without Kalkbrenner and a S16 without the sexy Midwest F4 pick, the Iowa Fighting Frans.

In fact, I hope Kansas lucks tf out next cycle too; plays a 10 in their next E8 matchup and an 8 in their next title game.

Survive and Advance doesn't mean you weren't lucky and gifted a lesser opponent. But I love the salt, Talking-Points Guy.
Luck>Talent