Kansas Basketball: Jayhawks go undefeated in 2018-19 with Bold Prediction

[ExitFlagger]

You still didn’t answer my question.

Does Mark Few have the same platform as Bill Self?

The point was that Few is able to recruit at a high level, field highly ranked teams year after year, earn high seeds in the tourney, and make a run to the national title game. While being in a garbage conference.

And the Memphis program was at a higher level and more attractive to recruits than Gonzaga is currently.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Draft picks don’t equate to college stardom. Hami and Vanderbilt were both drafted this year and neither were anywhere close to being able to give meaningful minutes to a legit title contender. Idk. Maybe as a 6th or 7th man. But hami started a large part of the season and had one good game after January.

Skal is another guy that just wasn’t ready when he was here but clearly had a ton of upside.

Enes Kanter never played a game for us.

Ultimately though it all falls on Cal. He knows these kids intentions when he recruits them. But now even when we get kids that should be solid multi year guys that they leave if they don’t immediately get 30 minutes a game or we recruit anyone else at their position.

I will say, it seems more and more of the fan base are growing tired of the “we’re young” excuse. Stop going after kids like hamidou Diallo then. Nice kid. But he was never going to be here long enough to actually help win games.

True; getting drafted doesn't necessarily equate to college stardom. But Vanderbilt and Diallo are hardly the norm for Kentucky under Calipari. The vast majority of his draft choices left Kentucky as very productive players. Many among the best in the country.

Kevin Knox
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Jarred Vanderbilt
Hamidou Diallo
De'Aaron Fox
Malik Monk
Bam Adebayo
Jamal Murray
Skal Labissiere
Tyler Ulis
Karl-Anthony Towns
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Andrew Harrison
Dakari Johnson
Julius Randle
James Young
Nerlens Noel
Archie Goodwin
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Terrence Jones
Marquis Teague
Doron Lamb
Darius Miller
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Josh Harrellson
DeAndre Liggins
John Wall
DeMarcus Cousins
Patrick Patterson
Eric Bledsoe
Daniel Orton

 

[Hank_]

The point was that Few is able to recruit at a high level, field highly ranked teams year after year, earn high seeds in the tourney, and make a run to the national title game. While being in a garbage conference.

And the Memphis program was at a higher level and more attractive to recruits than Gonzaga is currently.

So, Mark Few, who can recruit at a high level, field highly ranked teams year after year, earn high seeds in the tourney, and make a run to the national championship, is on the same playing field as Bill Self?

It’s a yes or no question.

Me, I think the answer is “No”. I think Mark envies Bill’s position. Bill has unfathomable fan support, endless donor money to spend on things like a $12MM dorm for his players, flagship position with a premier shoe company, and consistent prime time network exposure.

Those all seem like advantages that mid majors don’t have access to, but would love to have. A man might even take a different job to obtain those specific advantages.

 

[SpartanJD]

How does KU project without Desousa?

 

[inthephog]

How does KU project without Desousa?

Honestly...probably the one position where we can easily absorb the loss.

D Lawson stays the starter
KJ Lawson moves from the 3 to the 4 (especially with Vick back)
Lightfoot no longer redshirts.

 

[joe for prez]

How long until they have to vacate the wins?

 

[wesr]

How long until they have to vacate the wins?[/QUOTE

Never, considering Ayton situation and the amount he was paid.

 

[npreston]

How does KU project without Desousa?

It would obviously be a loss, but as phog said, it would be absorbable.

 

[ExitFlagger]

So, Mark Few, who can recruit at a high level, field highly ranked teams year after year, earn high seeds in the tourney, and make a run to the national championship, is on the same playing field as Bill Self?

It’s a yes or no question.

Me, I think the answer is “No”. I think Mark envies Bill’s position. Bill has unfathomable fan support, endless donor money to spend on things like a $12MM dorm for his players, flagship position with a premier shoe company, and consistent prime time network exposure.

Those all seem like advantages that mid majors don’t have access to, but would love to have. A man might even take a different job to obtain those specific advantages.

No one denied those disadvantages. But what matters is that Calipari overcame those disadvantages to bring in talent that rivaled Self's. So those years shouldn't be thrown out when comparing coaching ability.

If you want to argue that Calipari could do a better overall job than Self at KU...it's definitely possible. But it would be due to recruiting, not Xs and Os. The recruiting boost would bring with it higher expectations on the court. And if he continued the pattern of many underwhelming regular seasons and one natty in a decade...it would leave me wanting more. Just as many UK fans want more. Their narrative only changes when they get into immature pissing contests with rival fans.

 

[ExitFlagger]

How does KU project without Desousa?

I don't think it would be a massive loss, because it's already going to be difficult to get each big the minutes he deserves. I think McCormack will deserve more minutes than he ultimately sees (if De Sousa plays).

 

[tarwhiz]

Self was at Illinois and his teams were terrible.

Arguing about small sample sizes with KU and UK makes you look moronic.

Self just came off a Final 4 while Calipari hasn't made a Final 4 since 2015. He's on a downward trend if anything.

Those Illinois teams were not "Terrible" Watch some basketball before posting ludicrous ish!

 

[KDcats11]

That was meant for whoever made the arbitrary cut off at 9 years.

Calipari started pulling 4 and 5 star players regularly at Memphis around 2004, Self's first year at KU. They had similar levels of talent for the rest of his time at Memphis. And if there were a disparity, it was certainly smaller than the disparity between Calipari's Kentucky talent and Self's rosters. It would make a lot more sense to look at the last 15 years for both.

Simply taking a look at the star ratings of both coaches' rosters in 2008 proves just how wrong (and either stupid or delusional) you are, but you aren't here to talk about facts. You simply have a boner for anything UK-related. You're ate up. Just don't try to act like some unbiased voice of reason. You're the worst in this thread and one of the worst on this board.

 

[lkc1234]

So, Mark Few, who can recruit at a high level, field highly ranked teams year after year, earn high seeds in the tourney, and make a run to the national championship, is on the same playing field as Bill Self?

It’s a yes or no question.

Me, I think the answer is “No”. I think Mark envies Bill’s position. Bill has unfathomable fan support, endless donor money to spend on things like a $12MM dorm for his players, flagship position with a premier shoe company, and consistent prime time network exposure.

Those all seem like advantages that mid majors don’t have access to, but would love to have. A man might even take a different job to obtain those specific advantages.

Then why does Self always have players in trouble with the law and problems with the NCAA? Every year he has recruits accused of taking money or other eligibility problems. Then he accepts transfers like the Lawson brothers who are complete head cases.

 

[Big_Blue79]

This crap drives me nuts. This is what lame Louisville fans do. They weren't "NBA stars" when they were at UK. They were Freshmen, AKA: one year removed from high school and they were playing an a stage with extreme pressure. They were 18 and 19 year old kids.

At least tell the true story and not some lame Louisville tactic that they use to attempt to deflect attention from all their dirty transgressions. You're better than that… .maybe.

@MrBaracus : I can only post once a week, so I have to put my response to you here.

Yes, they are college stars, if you want to call them that. But not all of them and it takes them the entire season to figure college basketball out, then there's a single elimination tournament at the end of the season to decide the champion. Teams like Villanova and UNC win those most of the time, because they are veteran teams. Not sure why KU doesn't win more often, they usually have a nice mix of top freshman and exceptional Juniors and Seniors, I would take that over a bunch of Freshmen.

As far as who's doing the bragging, looks like it's KU fans to me. Uk fans have shown some confidence, but KU fans are taking home the chest thumping Trophy.

Oh and the "6 NBA draft picks" comment, first of all, that's a serious exaggeration and second of all, the NBA drafts on potential, not what they accomplished to that point. Nice try though. UK fans (Duke fans too) never get to see the true talents that these kids have until they are long gone. But you already knew that didn't you? You just had to make someone say it. It's not like Wall, Cousins, Townes, Randle and Fox were putting up their current NBA numbers when they were freshmen at UK.

Great post.

Apparently neither his fans nor Calipari himself think that highly of his abilities. Comparable talent isn't enough...he needs double the talent (35 NBA draft picks to 17 since arriving at Kentucky) before being compared to Self.

Ah, again using "talent" to mean ability to contribute to winning college basketball games now. Would you rather have had Jalen Brunson or SGA this last year to win games in college? The answer is definitely Brunson, but SGA was drafted about 20 spots higher because he has more "talent." When you equate "talent" with ability to win now, you're showing you have zero understanding of how basketball works, how the aging curve works, and why experience matters.

Clueless and persistent, Mr. Baracus, is not a good way to go through life.

 

[Big_Blue79]

True; getting drafted doesn't necessarily equate to college stardom. But Vanderbilt and Diallo are hardly the norm for Kentucky under Calipari. The vast majority of his draft choices left Kentucky as very productive players. Many among the best in the country.

Kevin Knox
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Jarred Vanderbilt
Hamidou Diallo
De'Aaron Fox
Malik Monk
Bam Adebayo
Jamal Murray
Skal Labissiere
Tyler Ulis
Karl-Anthony Towns
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Andrew Harrison
Dakari Johnson
Julius Randle
James Young
Nerlens Noel
Archie Goodwin
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Terrence Jones
Marquis Teague
Doron Lamb
Darius Miller
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Josh Harrellson
DeAndre Liggins
John Wall
DeMarcus Cousins
Patrick Patterson
Eric Bledsoe
Daniel Orton

Yeah, man, Skal and Orton and Dakari and Goodwin and Vanderbilt really tore it up! Don't forget all those times when Kanter dominated (practices, I guess, but still what a morale boost to have him around!). And even if your dumb theory that "talent" = college output is correct (and it's not often the case), you ignore that UK under Cal has lost more "talent" than any other team by a country mile (35 draft picks, wow!). So even under your dumb theory you're ignoring one of the two key variables ("talent" coming in minus "talent" leaving). It's hard to fail that hard, brah. Congratulations.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Simply taking a look at the star ratings of both coaches' rosters in 2008 proves just how wrong (and either stupid or delusional) you are, but you aren't here to talk about facts. You simply have a boner for anything UK-related. You're ate up. Just don't try to act like some unbiased voice of reason. You're the worst in this thread and one of the worst on this board.

You're right. I do. Why? Because most of you are complete d-bags. Not to mention hypocritical (I mean, your program's history is littered with some of the biggest cheaters ever--not to mention Calipari is widely considered a cheat--yet you fire stones constantly).

I'm glad you were able to prove me "wrong" by selecting whichever ratings service best fits your argument and counting the stars. You guys sure love your rankings. What was Travis's ranking btw? Oh, the lowest on your entire team? Yet he'll probably be your most productive player? Oops.

 

[JimboBBN]

*calls other people dbags*

*admits he’s a dbag ate up with another team*

 

[ExitFlagger]

Yeah, man, Skal and Orton and Dakari and Goodwin and Vanderbilt really tore it up! Don't forget all those times when Kanter dominated (practices, I guess, but still what a morale boost to have him around!). And even if your dumb theory that "talent" = college output is correct (and it's not often the case), you ignore that UK under Cal has lost more "talent" than any other team by a country mile (35 draft picks, wow!). So even under your dumb theory you're ignoring one of the two key variables ("talent" coming in minus "talent" leaving). It's hard to fail that hard, brah. Congratulations.

Speaking of failing...I don't know why you're failing so hard to comprehend this, but I never said anything that contradicts the fact that raw talent doesn't always equate to college production. I clearly stated "the vast majority of his draft choices left Kentucky as very productive players." And, in trying to prove the opposite point, you proved my point by only naming a few exceptions from a list of 35. Nice work!

 

[Big_Blue79]

^ I just picked out a few names, and you fail to address the point that Cal loses more "talent" than any other coach. So even your simplistic, misleading way of judging things (which is apparently recruiting rankings or draft potential, it doesn't matter) fails because you ignore half of the relevant factors. This isn't hard.

 

[Big_Blue79]

What was Travis's ranking btw? Oh, the lowest on your entire team? Yet he'll probably be your most productive player? Oops.

It's hard to be so consistently wrong, but you keep finding new ways. Travis Reid was #35 overall in 2014, and he's going to be a 22 year old senior. This may be breaking news to you, but up until about 27-29 players almost universally improve (the aging curve). So a 22 year old, experienced high 4 star recruit that's been productive already (i.e. he's not an obvious bust) should be expected to be better than all but the most exceptional 5 star freshman. FFS, man, just tap out already.

 

[ExitFlagger]

^ I just picked out a few names, and you fail to address the point that Cal loses more "talent" than any other coach. So even your simplistic, misleading way of judging things (which is apparently recruiting rankings or draft potential, it doesn't matter) fails because you ignore half of the relevant factors. This isn't hard.

He loses more freshmen, yes. Because he has the most talented freshman class every year. And the rare freshman that is a ready-made star, which describes the vast majority of that list.

There is no denying that he has been loaded with both raw talent AND highly productive players throughout his tenure at Kentucky. HENCE the top 3 ranking every damn preseason and sky-high expectations from the fanbase, and why he is once again the favorite (according to some) with YET another freshman-heavy team (and not even the superstar freshmen that he's used to).

If he can't be expected to win at a high level with 20 5-star players every year, because some of them are freshmen...why the hell are media and fan expectations so high every offseason? Please explain.

 

[ExitFlagger]

It's hard to be so consistently wrong, but you keep finding new ways. Travis Reid was #35 overall in 2014, and he's going to be a 22 year old senior. This may be breaking news to you, but up until about 27-29 players almost universally improve (the aging curve). So a 22 year old, experienced high 4 star recruit that's been productive already (i.e. he's not an obvious bust) should be expected to be better than all but the most exceptional 5 star freshman. FFS, man, just tap out already.

I thought it was pretty obvious that I was using that example to show how silly it is to judge a team's talent by their high school rankings. Apparently not obvious enough. Maybe you should tap out.

 

[KUhawks34]

No idea how the season plays out but KU arguably has more returning than Duke or UK..... so yea there is reason to be excited whichever fan asked that question.

 

[Big_Blue79]

^ who cares about media and fan expectations? Literally, who cares? Many (if not most) UK fans realize/state/post that high expectations pre-season are not warranted, and most media prognostications are basically shrug emojis and a mention about "talent" in the way that you continue to misuse it (despite your denial). Look at this last year:

• ESPN (#7): "Of the top 10 guys on the roster, eight have never played a college game."
• USA Today (#6): "more talent is on the way as per usual"
• Bleacher Report (#5): "Kentucky welcomed eight freshmen in the 2017 class, six of whom carried 5-star distinction."
• SI (#8): "It is hard for a team heavily reliant on freshmen to dominate opponents over the course of a season."

And please explain how "the vast majority" of that list are "ready-made star." I count a few: AD, KAT, Randle, Fox, Wall, Boogie, maybe Noel (but he was hurt in the tournament), and maaaaaaybe Murray. The rest were bad to moderately good their freshman years. FWIW, the teams with the guys I identified as "ready-made star" went to the: Title, Final 4, Title Game, Elite 8, Elite 8, Elite 8, injured, second round. Meanwhile, your list has a guy that never played, guys who were all right and highly inefficient like the Harrison twins and Bam, guys who sucked like Goodwin and Skal, bench guys like Booker, Ulis, and guys that Cal didn't recruit like Orton, Patterson, and Harrelson. You're trying to hard to make a narrative.

 

[Big_Blue79]

I thought it was pretty obvious that I was using that example to show how silly it is to judge a team's talent by their high school rankings. Apparently not obvious enough. Maybe you should tap out.

Well you seem to ignore that experience matters when wanting to bash Cal for not winning more with freshmen (in a lot of your posts, including your list), so hats off to you for finally recognizing the point. I suppose now you realize that all that "talent" doesn't necessarily mean more wins, but deep down I think you already knew that.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Well you seem to ignore that experience matters when wanting to bash Cal for not winning more with freshmen (in a lot of your posts, including your list), so hats off to you for finally recognizing the point. I suppose now you realize that all that "talent" doesn't necessarily mean more wins, but deep down I think you already knew that.

Again, I've never said anything contradictory to that.

It's ridiculous to tally high school star ratings to compare the talent of two teams, but that doesn't mean that Kentucky hasn't had an enviable and capable roster practically every year. Wall/Cousins/Davis/Towns/Fox/Murray/Monk, etc aren't ordinary freshmen. Their expectations are high for a reason. What Kentucky lacks in experience is generally made up for by raw skill and athleticism. And what seems to be forgotten is that there are usually multiple 5-star/high 4-star upperclassmen on the bench.

Aside from the NIT year, I can't remember the last time when the average Kentucky fan didn't have final four/title expectations going into the tourney. It's only after their last tourney game that the narrative changes to being too inexperienced.

 

[BobbyBoucheer]

That's what this guy is predicting..... UK is not the only team with crazy ass fans..

https://kckingdom.com/2018/07/03/ka...s-will-go-undefeated-2018-19-bold-prediction/

 

[Big_Blue79]

Again, I've never said anything contradictory to that.

It's ridiculous to tally high school star ratings to compare the talent of two teams, but that doesn't mean that Kentucky hasn't had an enviable and capable roster practically every year. Wall/Cousins/Davis/Towns/Fox/Murray/Monk, etc aren't ordinary freshmen. Their expectations are high for a reason. What Kentucky lacks in experience is generally made up for by raw skill and athleticism. And what seems to be forgotten is that there are usually multiple 5-star/high 4-star upperclassmen on the bench.

Aside from the NIT year, I can't remember the last time when the average Kentucky fan didn't have final four/title expectations going into the tourney. It's only after their last tourney game that the narrative changes to being too inexperienced.

I think you imply to the contrary with your posts by saying things like "what Kentucky lacks in experience is generally made up for by raw skill and athleticism." At a very high level of generality, sure I guess, but there's a reason why freshmen dominated teams don't win titles very often (and skill evolves with experience, especially shooting). Even UK's best teams, 2012 and 2015, had significant sophomore contributions, and much more shooting than, say, last year's team.

I don't think that the "average Kentucky fan" had "final four/title expectations" going into the 2011 (4 seed), 2013 (probably 8 seed bound before Noel injury), 2014 (8 seed), 2016 (5 seed), or 2018 (5 seed) tournaments. But you're correct about those expectations for 2010 (1 seed), 2012 (1 seed), 2015 (1 seed), and 2017 (2 seed) tournaments.

 

[kyjeff1]

Again, I've never said anything contradictory to that.

It's ridiculous to tally high school star ratings to compare the talent of two teams, but that doesn't mean that Kentucky hasn't had an enviable and capable roster practically every year. Wall/Cousins/Davis/Towns/Fox/Murray/Monk, etc aren't ordinary freshmen. Their expectations are high for a reason. What Kentucky lacks in experience is generally made up for by raw skill and athleticism. And what seems to be forgotten is that there are usually multiple 5-star/high 4-star upperclassmen on the bench.

Aside from the NIT year, I can't remember the last time when the average Kentucky fan didn't have final four/title expectations going into the tourney. It's only after their last tourney game that the narrative changes to being too inexperienced.

Yeah, because a few UK fans go bonkers every year that means it's the entire fanbase that feels that way. SMDH.
Also, why wouldn't a fan be confident in his/her favorite team? What are we supposed to do, say we're sweet 16 at best? How are we supposed to know when the team is made up of mostly Freshmen that may or may not pan out.
But I'll say this, KU fans are doing the most talking out of anybody right now.
I mean, there are 3 or 4 of them on Rupp Rafters that are working overtime trying to convince erbody that KU is the title favorite and are getting upset because UK fans aren't in total agreement.

 

[ExitFlagger]

I think you imply to the contrary with your posts by saying things like "what Kentucky lacks in experience is generally made up for by raw skill and athleticism." At a very high level of generality, sure I guess, but there's a reason why freshmen dominated teams don't win titles very often (and skill evolves with experience, especially shooting). Even UK's best teams, 2012 and 2015, had significant sophomore contributions, and much more shooting than, say, last year's team.

I don't think that the "average Kentucky fan" had "final four/title expectations" going into the 2011 (4 seed), 2013 (probably 8 seed bound before Noel injury), 2014 (8 seed), 2016 (5 seed), or 2018 (5 seed) tournaments. But you're correct about those expectations for 2010 (1 seed), 2012 (1 seed), 2015 (1 seed), and 2017 (2 seed) tournaments.

So why the sky-high expectations for next year? Does adding one grad transfer make up for the lack of experience everywhere else? And none of the freshmen are projected to be superstars. All their best teams have had multiple star freshmen paired with some very good upperclassmen. Let me guess..."average UK fan" doesn't actually expect greatness.

Not buying that Joe Kentucky Fan doesn't expect an SEC title, high seed and deep run every year. The only thing that might lower those expectations for some is an underachieving regular season.

 

[anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y]

You're right...wins over Ted Owens in the 70s are more relevant than Bill Self being 2-0 in Rupp.

Trademark porch-pisser logic.

Wait a second, isn’t Kansas the school that brags about being the most historical in college basketball history? You brag about Dr. Naismith, Phog Allen, Adolph Rupp, Dean Smith yet you want to forget about Ted Owens? Ted Owens held the title of Head Coach the same as Bill Self and Phog Allen. He’s part of your history. Gotta take that bad with the good. And with that being said, Kentucky won 16 of the first 17 games in the series. With that kind of domination, this isn’t really considered a rivalry.

 

[HRTheCard]

Wait a second, isn’t Kansas the school that brags about being the most historical in college basketball history? You brag about Dr. Naismith, Phog Allen, Adolph Rupp, Dean Smith yet you want to forget about Ted Owens? Ted Owens held the title of Head Coach the same as Bill Self and Phog Allen. He’s part of your history. Gotta take that bad with the good. And with that being said, Kentucky won 16 of the first 17 games in the series. With that kind of domination, this isn’t really considered a rivalry.

Going back to 1985 to say something isnt a rivalry is asinine. In the modern era, 2 bluebloods are 6-6 against each other. That's a rivalry.

 

[anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y]

Going back to 1985 to say something isnt a rivalry is asinine. In the modern era, 2 bluebloods are 6-6 against each other. That's a rivalry.

Cherry picking eras is something Louisville fans do.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Cherry picking eras is something Louisville fans do.

It's not cherry picking. In the modern era (defined as 85 forward), KU is 8-6. That's over 30 years.

If you were to say "this wasn't a rivalry in the 60s and 70s," that would be accurate. Saying it is not a rivalry right now is false. This is a pretty simple point that you guys struggle to grasp.

Then again, there are many points you all struggle with. Like the hypocrisy of dumping on Self/KU regarding alleged cheating when your program has always been one of the dirtiest.