Simply a fact gents. My stars what a stud. Carey and Edwards aren’t too far off. Maxey is decent. Can’t think of any other FR worth mentioning.
Isaac Okoro is the best freshman in the country
- Thread starter Denim Vest
- Start date
Player A: 18 ppg (while playing 24 minutes per game) while shooting 61%, 9 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 blocks, .5 steal per game.
Player B: 13.5 ppg (while playing 30 minutes per game) while shooting 58%, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal per game.
It seems to me that player A is clearly better than player B. More points in fewer minutes while shooting a better percent, twice as many boards, roughly equivalent in everything else.
Player B: 13.5 ppg (while playing 30 minutes per game) while shooting 58%, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal per game.
It seems to me that player A is clearly better than player B. More points in fewer minutes while shooting a better percent, twice as many boards, roughly equivalent in everything else.
Interesting. I’m more of an advanced stats guy. Like the coaches, scouts and execs. Also the ‘eye test’.
Looks like 2 good players in your example but would need more to really know anything.
Ah. Okay. So how about...
Player A: 62% eFG, 37.0 PER, 3.0 Win Share, ORtg 124, DRtg 80. Per 40 stats: 30 PPG, 15 RPG, 2 APG, 1.5 SPG, 5 BPG against a Strength of Schedule of 6.28.
Player B: 60% eFG, 21.7 PER, 2.1 Win Share, ORtg 120, DRtg 95. Per 40 stats: 25 PPG, 9 RPG, 3.5 APG, 1.5 SPG, 1.5 BPG against a Strength of Schedule of 2.9.
Player A shoots a better effective field goal percentage, has a far higher efficiency rating (nearly double!) a higher win share, a higher offensive rating, a better defensive rating, more points and rebounds and blocks per game in 40 minutes, and all against a far better group of opponents.
Player B has a extra 1.5 assists per 40. That's it.
This is about as far as Charles Barkley gets in stats, too, but egads, man.
This. Carey is still better by advanced stats - WS and BPM prefer Carey, but the margin is huge for PER (which is itself biased towards high usage and rebounding). Straight FG% is often misleading (big DeAndre Jordan fans disagree); they have nigh-identical TS% and eFG% (slight edge to Carey). The big differences are rebounds, which can be misleading due to the differences between being a good personal rebounder (David Lee, Westbrook, DeAndre Jordan) and being good for team rebounding (Steven Adams, Robin Lopez), and usage (31.4%!!!! to 20.4%).
I think Carey is better, but you can't just compare back-of-the-basketball-card stats between post players and wings in 2020.
That's... not how PER works. It's designed so that 15 PER is average, it doesn't scale linearly, and it's generally disfavored (although I love me some Hollinger) due to its bias for high usage and (to a lesser extent) rebounding, and it's reliance on blocks and steals as the sole measure of defense. It was developed when box score stats were all that was publicly available, and it does not rely on on/off at all.
That said, 37.0 PER is ridiculous.
All I said was that it is nearly double, and the numbers ARE nearly double. Not saying that the player is twice as efficient or something... that isn't how PER works.
And at this point I think I've provided enough data to compare player A and player B. It is certainly more than anyone else has provided
Just need to see how Okoro fares against a legit defense. Vanderbilt is a 6 loss team that has a defense that could be compared to Swiss cheese. I also think Vanderbilt and Mississippi State are the two toughest games Auburn has played, that's pretty bad.
However, I absolutely love the style of ball Auburn plays and those guards do a great job of spreading the floor and creating driving lanes. They also drive the ball at about 100mph and make the defense foul.
In a wide open/down year, Auburn is a team that could win it all for sure.
However, I absolutely love the style of ball Auburn plays and those guards do a great job of spreading the floor and creating driving lanes. They also drive the ball at about 100mph and make the defense foul.
In a wide open/down year, Auburn is a team that could win it all for sure.
Oh man wish I knew. I’m sure we all do. Bet it’s magnificent.
Yeah, problem is he has trouble staying on the floor in many games, so his stats don't back up how good he has been. As soon as he picks up 2 quick ones Huggins benches him the rest of the half. He is getting better at not fouling so much early on though.
He plays about 22 or 23 mpg which is pretty standard for big guys. Impressive thing to me is he only averages 7 fga per game. Still averaging over 12 and 9. Pretty damn efficient. Huggs will start going to him more as he figures things out, and then he can put up some monster numbers.
He's averaging 15 and 13 in Big 12 play.
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Interesting. Sounds like there’s some decent young bigs out there.
The thing about a ready made NBA wing like Isaac is he can guard 1-5, score from all 3 levels and not be a liability in end of game situations. Lot of things that wouldn’t necessarily show up on the stat sheet or even some of the metrics but the reason he’s skyrocketing up draft boards. Good convo though gents.
Okoro is playing really, really well. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see him taken in the 1st round. He's not the best freshmen, though. I think everyone knows this. Gotta be Anthony Edwards or Vernon Carey.
In addition to the players already mentioned, I think you could argue the following players are having more productive years than Okoro:
Isaiah Stewart, Washington
Nico Mannion, Arizona
Zeke Nnaji, Arizona
Landers Nolley, Virginia Tech
Precious Achiuwa, Memphis
Onyeka Okongwu, USC
Tracyce Jackson-Davis, Indiana
Tyrell Terry, Stanford
Kofi Cockburn, Illinois
In addition to the players already mentioned, I think you could argue the following players are having more productive years than Okoro:
Isaiah Stewart, Washington
Nico Mannion, Arizona
Zeke Nnaji, Arizona
Landers Nolley, Virginia Tech
Precious Achiuwa, Memphis
Onyeka Okongwu, USC
Tracyce Jackson-Davis, Indiana
Tyrell Terry, Stanford
Kofi Cockburn, Illinois
He’s pretty much a sure lottery pick at this point and rising. Here’s a fresh mock with him going 4th.
So you guys are going to lose your top 6 players after this season? That could be rough. Hope you guys are able to repeat this year.
It’s just reloading at this point. Lost 5 from last season. Will return 7. Most will be ready to step in. Add the best HS PG in Sharife Cooper. A few more studs. Duke fans know the drill.
Did James Wiseman die? Because him not being in the top 9 make that mock worthless.
EvilMonkeyInTheCloset
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