How does Bill Self survive?

[IrishInOntario]

Every school cheats somehow. If they don’t ... they’ll lose... a lot

There is a HUGGGEEEEE difference between the entire country ignoring some NCAA regulations in recruiting
relative to contact with recruits, or giving kids some extra swag that they aren't supposed to have when they come on official visits... Versus being involved in schemes that pay kids hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend your school, or the purchasing of high end cars for kids that can't afford to visit a place if it's not via an official visit.

Almost everyone is dirty to an extent. I have no doubt about that. But to assume all programs are equally guilty relative to rules breaking, would be nothing short of ridiculous. Some programs are committing misdemeanors. Some programs are committing felonies for having a couple grams of cocaine on them... And some programs are Jeffrey Dahmer.

 

[afish111]

Do Kansas fans really believe he's clean? Honestly? No dog in this fight but let's not be naive. I'm not asking if he's fired or not, just asking if in your heart of hearts, you think this dude is innocent? C'mon now. They don't call them fanatics for nothing, some of y'all going to your grave waiving the Bill Self is innocent flag.

 

[coryfly]

RollLaugh

Says the program that lowered itself to our entire school is committing academic fraud just to get out of trouble in basketball

I feel like you are jealous of The Carolina Way. Not to sound pretentious, but being better than others isn't something we are ashamed of.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

There is a HUGGGEEEEE difference between the entire country ignoring some NCAA regulations in recruiting
relative to contact with recruits, or giving kids some extra swag that they aren't supposed to have when they come on official visits... Versus being involved in schemes that pay kids hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend your school, or the purchasing of high end cars for kids that can't afford to visit a place if it's not via an official visit.

Almost everyone is dirty to an extent. I have no doubt about that. But to assume all programs are equally guilty relative to rules breaking, would be nothing short of ridiculous. Some programs are committing misdemeanors. Some programs are committing felonies for having a couple grams of cocaine on them... And some programs are Jeffrey Dahmer.

What team are you a fan of?

 

[lurkeraspect84]

What team are you a fan of?

Just a guess, Notre Dame.

 

[Global Havok]

Self will survive if there isn't concrete evidence. No school would fire a coach with Self's pedigree without being 100% sure he was complicit. I'm not sure the text message presented does that.

 

[Danger 35 Zone]

Give every KU Student $50 grand out of his own pocket. Thus the players didn't receive any preferential treatment than other students. You can call it the Roy Williams Scholarship

Dont have to give all, just give one random student the benefits. The UNC defense.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

Just a guess, Notre Dame.

I didn’t want assume anything . Wanted to make sure before I said ND is a blue blood cheater in football. But I bet he’ll refuse to believe it ....

 

[toonces11]

Do Kansas fans really believe he's clean? Honestly? No dog in this fight but let's not be naive. I'm not asking if he's fired or not, just asking if in your heart of hearts, you think this dude is innocent? C'mon now. They don't call them fanatics for nothing, some of y'all going to your grave waiving the Bill Self is innocent flag.

Nope---I think all coaches know nike and adidas steer kids to their schools. I think coaches def hear about family requests. I think most big schools find parents jobs and clear avenues for them to obtain nice housing. I don't think Self does anything other schools don't have done for themselves. I did think that the Head coaches stayed further out of the way of this stuff---but who knows. "we good?" is hardly 'evidence'......but I think coaches know wayyyyyyy more than they let on. I thought the days of money in bags were long gone-----i now know I'm wrong.

 

[Mac9192]

Not to sound pretentious, but being better than others isn't something we are ashamed of.

Anytime I start to doubt my own fan base, and think so many are the same, a tar heel fan comes along with a line like this.

Do you wear a sweater vest when watching them play?

 

[coryfly]

Goodness, dude.

 

[Big_Blue79]

The defense said in their closing statements that they showed evidence that Self and staff requested the payments. The only evidence they put forth was a vague text from Self to Gatto thanking him shortly after De Sousa committed. No mention of payments by any member of the staff or anything from any witnesses to corroborate this. Gassnola testified that he was requested by Townsend and Self to help De Sousa's guardian with outfitting the Angolan National Team with Adidas gear. This was the only thing put forth as a request by Self and staff. FBI's prime witness put forth that the staff had no knowledge of the payments.

People seem to forget that in these cases the prosecution has to show without a shadow of a doubt proof that this happened. They also must put forth factual evidence and submit that. The defense has to put forth factual evidence but they can also sling shit at walls hoping something sticks. Putting out vague texts with no witnesses or evidence to back it up is slinging shit at walls hoping something sticks.

Now I believe Self and staff had at least an idea of what was going on. Have said that many times. But there is no evidence whatsoever of requested payments or definitive knowledge the staff knew.

Agree with the rest, but the without/beyond the shadow of a doubt thing bothers the hell out of me; it's a popular misconception stemming from the OJ defense. In a criminal trial, it's almost always beyond a reasonable doubt. It's a subtle but not insubstantial difference. Carry on.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

No animosity towards Bill Self, but I wish I could fast forward a couple years for the sake of enjoying college basketball again. Knowing that the most of the Blue Bloods (no matter how many fans choose to live in a shameful state of denial) have been at some level involved in completely making a farce of recruiting in college basketball, makes the sport much less fun to follow. JMO. The faster it gets cleaned up to a reasonable standard, the better for it eill be for everyone.

Notre Dame cheats more than any team in history. The only difference is the NCAA will never go after them because of the holy church.

 

[Chalmers15]

Self will survive, but if Kansas Fans dont think he is dirty, your heads are buried in the sand. He isnt known as Dollar Bill because it's a cute name. See Josh Jackson and Cliff Alexander as 2 recent examples.

Several references to Dawkins and MSU as well. If you think Izzo is any different you’re kidding yourself. All the top schools play the game.

 

[Chalmers15]

Every school cheats somehow. If they don’t ... they’ll lose... a lot

There is a HUGGGEEEEE difference between the entire country ignoring some NCAA regulations in recruiting
relative to contact with recruits, or giving kids some extra swag that they aren't supposed to have when they come on official visits... Versus being involved in schemes that pay kids hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend your school, or the purchasing of high end cars for kids that can't afford to visit a place if it's not via an official visit.

Almost everyone is dirty to an extent. I have no doubt about that. But to assume all programs are equally guilty relative to rules breaking, would be nothing short of ridiculous. Some programs are committing misdemeanors. Some programs are committing felonies for having a couple grams of cocaine on them... And some programs are Jeffrey Dahmer.

If KU were the only school offering money to players we’d have the top 5 recruits every year. But almost every season we’re ranked behind Duke, UK and UNC in recruiting rankings. If one of the top schools is the only one on the take the rest will either be left behind, or will have to play the same game to keep up. It happens for collegiate sports that generate the kind of revenue that football and basketball do.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

RollLaugh

Says the program that lowered itself to our entire school is committing academic fraud just to get out of trouble in basketball

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

 

[kl40504]

JJ's mom got money from Under Armor for an AAU team. That isn't anything new. See Bagley's dad getting paid by Nike. Cliff's mom took a loan against his future earnings from a bank after he was playing for KU. Self was pissed and benched him instantly. Jealous trolls like you call him Dollar Bill because just admitting KU is better is too hard for you.

Really. Did KU win the NCAA title recently? I must have missed that.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Notre Dame cheats more than any team in history. The only difference is the NCAA will never go after them because of the holy church.

Hilarious. ND has self reported more minor things and has been penalized severely for more minor things than any school recently.

Notre Dame had 5 kids receiving "too much tutouring" in a summer school course. They self reported it, suspended the kids for a year on their own accord and the NCAA still stripped them of all the wins they had accumulated the previous year. Meanwhile North Carolina has one of the biggest academic scandals in recent history, involving student athletes in a number of sports.... Crickets.


Give me a break about Notre Dame's cheating and not getting punished. SEC Football Teams and Blue Blood basketball teams are getting away with straight up robbery.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

SEC Football Teams and Blue Blood basketball teams are getting away with straight up robbery.

You sound like victim.

 

[kl40504]

I feel like you are jealous of The Carolina Way. Not to sound pretentious, but being better than others isn't something we are ashamed of.

I agree. Much better at cheating and getting away with it. The biggest cheating scam in basketball history and no penalties from the NCAA. Louisville should have followed your lead and provided prostitutes to a few regular students along with the basketball players. The whole basketball community knows the Carolina Way was a sham and you will have to live with that forever.

 

[AWilli6995]

I agree. Much better at cheating and getting away with it. The biggest cheating scam in basketball history and no penalties from the NCAA. Louisville should have followed your lead and provided prostitutes to a few regular students along with the basketball players. The whole basketball community knows the Carolina Way was a sham and you will have to live with that forever.

Stay on topic chief, no butt hurt allowed.

 

[JayhawkWriter]

Self will survive if there isn't concrete evidence. No school would fire a coach with Self's pedigree without being 100% sure he was complicit. I'm not sure the text message presented does that.

This. The text messages are damning, however they are vague and any good lawyer could cast doubt on their meaning. Bill could have just been checking up to make sure that the Angola Basketball team got their gear. If they had phone conversations that have Coach Self saying....give so and so the money or some form of that...than he would have been fired because those calls would have came out in the trial. the guys are on trial for among things defrauding Kansas....If they had concrete proof that KU or someone on the staff knew....it would have been presented......Do I think the staff knew.....absolutely......Can they prove it in a court of law beyond a reason of doubt.....no I don't think they can.....Which is why after all this boils over and the dust settles......Dollar Bill will still be the head coach of KU.

 

[ExitFlagger]

If KU were the only school offering money to players we’d have the top 5 recruits every year. But almost every season we’re ranked behind Duke, UK and UNC in recruiting rankings. If one of the top schools is the only one on the take the rest will either be left behind, or will have to play the same game to keep up. It happens for collegiate sports that generate the kind of revenue that football and basketball do.

Yup. Little doubt that KU's payroll pales in comparison to the other top schools.

Coaches aren't oblivious. Only question is their level of involvement (personally, I think Calipari hosts recruiting parties with strippers, coke and Scrooge-style sacks of scratch, but I can't prove this).

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Yup. Little doubt that KU's payroll pales in comparison to the other top schools.

Coaches aren't oblivious. Only question is their level of involvement (personally, I think Calipari hosts recruiting parties with strippers, coke and Scrooge-style sacks of scratch, but I can't prove this).

All true, and it has to suck not being able to prove it.

 

[Turinturumbar]

Self will survive, but if Kansas Fans dont think he is dirty, your heads are buried in the sand. He isnt known as Dollar Bill because it's a cute name. See Josh Jackson and Cliff Alexander as 2 recent examples.

Oh I know he’s dirty. I’ve known for years. I don’t care. I’m not naive to how this thing works. I mean hell, I know an old pal who got some inappropriate gifts at KSU 15 years ago when they were terrible. It literally happens everywhere. If you don’t think similar things are going on at MSU, you’re naive. There are two types of programs. Those who cheat and get caught and those who cheat and don’t get caught. So far there have been texts that don’t look good, but nothing definitive that can prove anything. So long as it stays that way, I’ll be happy.

 

[Kronic22]

Innocent until proven guilty... But we all know the game is dirty.