Helms Titles

[lurkeraspect84]

I've had that debate with you before and admitted they weren't.

We've all had this debate.

Greatest Programs of the Modern Era

Alright, gents. Here it is. The 50 Greatest Programs of the Modern Era. Kansas, with all of the conference ships and a 2022 National Title, squeaks past Carolina for 2nd place. Arizona at #6 surprised me a little, to be honest. I added conference tournament champions, but the start date I...

forums.rivals.com

 

[lurkeraspect84]

So know we can put that nonsense to bed.

 

[JimboBBN]

Duke, Carolina, and Kansas have all won a title since our last one. We need this one lol

 

[dukedevilz]

Here's the updated table:

1. Duke
2. Kansas
3. UNC
4. Kentucky
5. UConn

 

[JimboBBN]

The gap between Duke and Kansas. Damn.

 

[ExitFlagger]

The gap between Duke and Kansas. Damn.

It's almost as wide as the gap between KU and UK.

 

[JimboBBN]

It's almost as wide as the gap between KU and UK.

It wasn't a shot at KU. Its the gap between Duke and second place.

 

[RondoBaller21]

Hunter Dickinson tried to say KU had 6 titles lol! Including helms titles is weak.

 

[kyjeff1]

LOL

Even if I actually were what you described, so what? Your entire fanbase is ate up with KU.

About 10 Kentucky posters were crying about the TCU game the second it ended. They never miss a chance to take shots. Can't imagine what RR looked like. Why do these clowns even care so much about a team that isn't in their conference?🤣

I mean, we have been over this. UK simply has more homers that feel better about themselves when they are making fun of others that have had, or are having, success. The BBN is a massive fanbase and some are sound really tight.

But the funny thing is, you are the exact same way. You keep bringing these UK fans up and shaming them, but you consustentky do and say the same things. The only difference is, you're a KU fan.

I'm not saying that in jest either, you truly are the person you live to hate. You’re going to deny it I'm sure, but you'll he in your own island there.

 

[kyjeff1]

LOL

Even if I actually were what you described, so what? Your entire fanbase is ate up with KU.

About 10 Kentucky posters were crying about the TCU game the second it ended. They never miss a chance to take shots. Can't imagine what RR looked like. Why do these clowns even care so much about a team that isn't in their conference?🤣

Little bit of an exaggeration, but it's because you're spouting the same nonsense that I see often from your tribe. You make generalizations about KU fans, but it's weird or obsessive for me to do it? Typical whiney victim BS.

……

You literally describe yourself everytime you rant about UK fans.

 

[kyjeff1]

Has @ExitFlagger ever admitted that Kentucky is the GOAT?

Once KU won the title in '22, Exit went all AUHoosier and is now claiming that KU is the greatest and UK fans are homers. He refuses to say a negative word about KU, refuses to admit KU cheated and can't stand UK fans. Will never admit UK is good at anything.

That about sums it up.

 

[kyjeff1]

I have no problem with saying that. Has any Kentucky fan ever admitted that they're not the best in the modern era?

Literally all of us have.

 

[Random UK Fan]

Could someone please explain if this thing has gone 12 pages due to justifying Helms titles or due to ridiculing them?

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Could someone please explain if this thing has gone 12 pages due to justifying Helms titles or due to ridiculing them?

Justifiably justified.

Jayhawks Capture 6th National Championship in Program History - University of Kansas

After back-to-back buckets put North Carolina back up one, McCormack went to work and scored in the paint to put the Jayhawks up 70-69 with 1:21 to play. He then

kuathletics.com

 

[AWilli6995]

No

Justifiably justified.

Jayhawks Capture 6th National Championship in Program History - University of Kansas

After back-to-back buckets put North Carolina back up one, McCormack went to work and scored in the paint to put the Jayhawks up 70-69 with 1:21 to play. He then

kuathletics.com

Damn 6 titles, didn't know they were tied with UNC. Laughing

 

[Kevin Bryan]

No



Damn 6 titles, didn't know they were tied with UNC. Laughing

UNC has 7.

National Champions - The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Carolina's men's basketball team won its seventh national championship with a 71-65 victory over the Gonzaga Bulldogs.

www.unc.edu

 

[AWilli6995]

UNC has 7.

National Champions - The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Carolina's men's basketball team won its seventh national championship with a 71-65 victory over the Gonzaga Bulldogs.

www.unc.edu

Any UNC fan will tell you we have 6, we'll get #7 the same way we got the previous 6.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Once KU won the title in '22, Exit went all AUHoosier and is now claiming that KU is the greatest and UK fans are homers. He refuses to say a negative word about KU, refuses to admit KU cheated and can't stand UK fans. Will never admit UK is good at anything.

That about sums it up.

LOL. Did you copy and paste the rant of an angry 14 year old?

 

[ExitFlagger]

Literally all of us have.

🤣 We’re just gonna pretend that this topic wasn’t forbidden? Gotta love revisionism.

 

[kyjeff1]

LOL. Did you copy and paste the rant of an angry 14 year old?

No, it's just the truth.

 

[kyjeff1]

🤣 We’re just gonna pretend that this topic wasn’t forbidden? Gotta love revisionism.

I mean, you can pretend all you want.
You make wild accusations constantly and it's quite obvious you hope they're true… you want them to be true, but they usually aren't.

 

[ExitFlagger]

I mean, we have been over this. UK simply has more homers that feel better about themselves when they are making fun of others that have had, or are having, success. The BBN is a massive fanbase and some are sound really tight.

But the funny thing is, you are the exact same way. You keep bringing these UK fans up and shaming them, but you consustentky do and say the same things. The only difference is, you're a KU fan.

I'm not saying that in jest either, you truly are the person you live to hate. You’re going to deny it I'm sure, but you'll he in your own island there.

Wrong, but let’s assume for a second you were right and I was just like the Rafturds. You're crying because one KU poster allegedly behaves the same way that hundreds of Rafters posters and several from this board do? 🤣

That's pretty funny.

Even funnier is that you think you're different than them.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Wrong, but let’s assume for a second you were right and I was just like the Rafturds. You're crying because one KU poster allegedly behaves the same way that hundreds of Rafters posters and several from this board do? 🤣

That's pretty funny.

Even funnier is that you think you're different than them.

He is different. aka banned like Mr. Baracus and myself.

 

[ExitFlagger]

No, it's just the truth.

The only thing you said that's even close to true is that I think some UK fans are homers. And that's not even what I criticize about them. Either you really struggle with reading comprehension or you just love to lie.

 

[ExitFlagger]

I mean, you can pretend all you want.
You make wild accusations constantly and it's quite obvious you hope they're true… you want them to be true, but they usually aren't.

Speaking of pretending...did you forget that you didn't even know what the modern era was until a few days ago?🤣

 

[mcnicKY91]

Yes, the better current program is the one with the better current coach and more recent success. What a crazy statement, right?

Not sure what's so difficult to understand about differentiating between current state of a program and the past.




They've had a better 40 year stretch. That's half of the entire history of the tourney. There's a reason that Kentucky's success slowed down when the modern format started, despite getting all the talent in recent years. It's far more difficult to win titles now.

Except you didn't say the better "current" program...your post clearly said "better program"...huge difference.

UK has won 4 championships in the modern age, and 4 prior. That is the definition of sustained success. KU has 3 in the modern era. They have both played in 11 final fours since 1970. Looks pretty identical to me.

Lastly, I wouldn't necessarily say Self is a better coach than Cal...he has coached at a blue blood longer than Cal (6 more years I believe) and both have pissed down their legs in numerous tournament games.

Self does much better with older players. And Cal does much better with freshmen dominated teams. Each approach has its positives, each has its negatives.

 

[ExitFlagger]

UK has won 4 championships in the modern age, and 4 prior. That is the definition of sustained success. KU has 3 in the modern era. They have both played in 11 final fours since 1970. Looks pretty identical to me.

Lastly, I wouldn't necessarily say Self is a better coach than Cal...he has coached at a blue blood longer than Cal (6 more years I believe) and both have pissed down their legs in numerous tournament games.

Both have 3 in the modern era.

Self is widely considered the best coach in the nation. Until this year, Kentucky fans wanted to pay Calipari 50 million to leave. Hilarious to claim that one isn't better than the other.

Self does much better with older players. And Cal does much better with freshmen dominated teams. Each approach has its positives, each has its negatives.

Based on what? Self's had one freshmen-dominated team in the OAD era, and one of the two elite freshmen (a guy named Embiid) missed the tourney. Around midseason, when they were healthy and peaking, they were playing great.

Self's had plenty of freshmen who were major contributors. Just a silly argument.

What do you think Calipari would accomplish with this KU roster? I can guarantee they wouldn't have three wins over top 5ish teams or a 13-1 record. He'd probably struggle to get into the tourney.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Both have 3 in the modern era.

Self is widely considered the best coach in the nation. Until this year, Kentucky fans wanted to pay Calipari 50 million to leave. Hilarious to claim that one isn't better than the other.



Based on what? Self's had one freshmen-dominated team in the OAD era, and one of the two elite freshmen (a guy named Embiid) missed the tourney. Around midseason, when they were healthy and peaking, they were playing great.

Self's had plenty of freshmen who were major contributors. Just a silly argument.

What do you think Calipari would accomplish with this KU roster? I can guarantee they wouldn't have three wins over top 5ish teams or a 13-1 record. He'd probably struggle to get into the tourney.

1978 is not modern? Just because it didn't have a 3 point line? Or because it gives UK another modern championship over KU?

Dude, what is your obsession with bringing UK fans up in almost every post? Are you capable of having a discussion without referencing UK fans??? I say this genuinely, it is really, really, really strange...I couldn't imagine constantly saying "well KU fans this, Duke fans this, UL fans this"...so odd.

You missed the point. Bill Self has never had one team where the make-up is a majority of freshman getting the majority of minutes...when has that happened? Why doesn't he go that route? Ever? I am not talking about having a couple freshman that contribute. I am talking about the majority of minutes going to freshmen. Again huge difference. Why doesn't he build his teams like that? Because he feels like he can coach better/have better results with upper classman. Same reason Cal trots out freshmen dominated teams, he has better success with them.

BTW, Cal had plenty of success at UMass and UM (schools with no basketball pedigree to speak of) with teams comprised of upper classmen.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

1978 is not modern? Just because it didn't have a 3 point line? Or because it gives UK another modern championship over KU?

Dude, what is your obsession with bringing UK fans up in almost every post? Are you capable of having a discussion without referencing UK fans??? I say this genuinely, it is really, really, really strange...I couldn't imagine constantly saying "well KU fans this, Duke fans this, UL fans this"...so odd.

You missed the point. Bill Self has never had one team where the make-up is a majority of freshman getting the majority of minutes...when has that happened? Why doesn't he go that route? Ever? I am not talking about having a couple freshman that contribute. I am talking about the majority of minutes going to freshmen. Again huge difference. Why doesn't he build his teams like that? Because he feels like he can coach better/have better results with upper classman. Same reason Cal trots out freshmen dominated teams, he has better success with them.

BTW, Cal had plenty of success at UMass and UM (schools with no basketball pedigree to speak of) with teams comprised of upper classmen.

Most associate the modern era with the expansion of the tourney field to 64 in '85.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Most associate the modern era with the expansion of the tourney field to 64 in '85.

But how does one make that determination...shot clock was changed from 45 sec to 35 sec in the early 90s, isn't that more modern? That was a huge change in pace of play? What about when it was lowered to 30 sec? What about the transfer portal? That has turned college athletics upside down. Isn't that exponentially more modern than the prior model? What about the refs ability to use technology to overturn calls? Isn't that exponentially more modern? Games and winners of games have been altered, whereas before, that could never happen...what about when the field inevitably expands to 96 or 128 teams, does that now make the field of 64/68 era no longer modern?

I just have never understood why some rule changes automatically make the game modern, while others don't...interesting discussion though!

 

[ExitFlagger]

1978 is not modern? Just because it didn't have a 3 point line? Or because it gives UK another modern championship over KU?

Dude, what is your obsession with bringing UK fans up in almost every post? Are you capable of having a discussion without referencing UK fans??? I say this genuinely, it is really, really, really strange...I couldn't imagine constantly saying "well KU fans this, Duke fans this, UL fans this"...so odd.

So it's strange to mention Calipari's lack of fan support when talking about his value as a coach? 🤣

Btw, in case you didn't realize, you're in a 12 page thread that consists of Kentucky fans bashing KU and its fans for claiming Helms. And you might notice that none of them mention that UNC also hangs Helms banners. Why the singular obsession with KU, a team that isn't even in your conference? Talk about strange.

The funniest part is that you've referenced "KU fans" multiple teams in this thread alone.

You missed the point. Bill Self has never had one team where the make-up is a majority of freshman getting the majority of minutes...when has that happened? Why doesn't he go that route? Ever? I am not talking about having a couple freshman that contribute. I am talking about the majority of minutes going to freshmen. Again huge difference. Why doesn't he build his teams like that? Because he feels like he can coach better/have better results with upper classman. Same reason Cal trots out freshmen dominated teams, he has better success with them.

Gee, I wonder why Self hasn't had a bunch of freshmen-dominated teams...

Maybe because that would require landing a lot of highly-rated freshmen? Apparently you think that every coach can have whoever they want?

Self misses on top targets constantly, especially after the FBI probe. He rarely has a roster that's even close to ideal, but he can turn other coaches' leftovers into 1 or 2 seeds. Calipari needs a dominant roster to be competitive.

 

[mcnicKY91]

So it's strange to mention Calipari's lack of fan support when talking about his value as a coach? 🤣

Btw, in case you didn't realize, you're in a 12 page thread that consists of Kentucky fans bashing KU and its fans for claiming Helms. And you might notice that none of them mention that UNC also hangs Helms banners. Why the singular obsession with KU, a team that isn't even in your conference? Talk about strange.

The funniest part is that you've referenced "KU fans" multiple teams in this thread alone.



Gee, I wonder why Self hasn't had a bunch of freshmen-dominated teams...

Maybe because that would require landing a lot of highly-rated freshmen? Apparently you think that every coach can have whoever they want?

Self misses on top targets constantly, especially after the FBI probe. He rarely has a roster that's even close to ideal, but he can turn other coaches' leftovers into 1 or 2 seeds. Calipari needs a dominant roster to be competitive.

You do understand the difference between mentioning KU fans in one post, as opposed to you constantly obsessing over UK fans or Rupp Rafters in a majority of your posts? You have to understand that difference right?

I haven't made one post about Helms banners in this thread. Also, UNC Helms banners were mentioned by UK fans, may want to go back and re-read.

Also, I would say the exact same thing to UK fans if they were constantly talking about another team's fanbase. It obsessive and truly weird.

Did you miss the part about the success Cal had at UMass and UM without a dominant roster? His teams were super competitive, and that was at mid major programs. Just gonna gloss over that?

You have no way to prove that Self would be successful with freshman dominated teams, because he has never done it, ever, in his coaching career. You have no idea if he would be able to juggle the egos of all these freshmen who have been told they were the best their entire basketball careers. You have no idea if he would find success getting them to play for each other, for the team, getting all these freshmen to actually play team defense, when defense is never, ever prioritized on the AAU circuit. It is flippin hard...that is one of the very few aspects of Cal's coaching that I do marvel at.

 

[ExitFlagger]

But how does one make that determination...shot clock was changed from 45 sec to 35 sec in the early 90s, isn't that more modern? That was a huge change in pace of play? What about when it was lowered to 30 sec? What about the transfer portal? That has turned college athletics upside down. Isn't that exponentially more modern than the prior model? What about the refs ability to use technology to overturn calls? Isn't that exponentially more modern? Games and winners of games have been altered, whereas before, that could never happen...what about when the field inevitably expands to 96 or 128 teams, does that now make the field of 64/68 era no longer modern?

I just have never understood why some rule changes automatically make the game modern, while others don't...interesting discussion though!

Which part of “most” don’t you understand? 🤣

Some people consider the start of the modern era a few years earlier and some would argue a few years later. The majority would say ‘85.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Which part of “most” don’t you understand? 🤣

Some people consider the start of the modern era a few years earlier and some would argue a few years later. The majority would say ‘85.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I am well aware he said most...my comment was how does one go about making that determination. I never said anything about how he goes about making that determination...you have never heard somebody use the term "one" before?

Again, why is 1985 considered modern, but not all the million rule changes after? I don't understand the criteria used, seems very subjective.

 

[ExitFlagger]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I am well aware he said most...my comment was how does one go about making that determination. I never said anything about how he goes about making that determination...you have never heard somebody use the term "one" before?

Again, why is 1985 considered modern, but not all the million rule changes after? I don't understand the criteria used, seems very subjective.

Of course it's subjective. Like everything else we're talking about. Such as claiming that one blueblood is inferior to the other. Yet you claim that as fact. Go figure. 🤣

It's pretty obvious why many consider '85 the start of the modern era. It was the first year of the current tourney format.

 

[kyjeff1]

The only thing you said that's even close to true is that I think some UK fans are homers. And that's not even what I criticize about them. Either you really struggle with reading comprehension or you just love to lie.

No, it's all true, you are as bad as the biggest UK homer on Rupp Rafters and it's not even up for debate.

 

[kyjeff1]

Speaking of pretending...did you forget that you didn't even know what the modern era was until a few days ago?🤣

You mean the thing that is an opinion???
There is no set standard for what "modern era" is, in basketball.
The thread you posted, is nothing but people's opinions and sorry, but I don't share those opinions. The game that is played today, is completely different than what was played in the 80's.
Heck, AAU wasn't even a thing until well into the 2000's. Guys leaving for the NBA was extremely rare until what, 2009-ish?
Yeah, you don't get to use opinions as fact, but nice try.

 

[kyjeff1]

Wrong, but let’s assume for a second you were right and I was just like the Rafturds. You're crying because one KU poster allegedly behaves the same way that hundreds of Rafters posters and several from this board do? 🤣

That's pretty funny.

Even funnier is that you think you're different than them.

I posted on Rafters for many years, the only difference between you and the most ridiculous Raftard, is the school you cheer for and make excuses for.
You’re as lame as the people you despise.

 

[kyjeff1]

Of course it's subjective. Like everything else we're talking about. Such as claiming that one blueblood is inferior to the other. Yet you claim that as fact. Go figure. 🤣

It's pretty obvious why many consider '85 the start of the modern era. It was the first year of the current tourney format.

Who says the tournament format is what dictates the modern era?

The tournament is nowhere near as impactful as style of play, the amount of programs that prioritize basketball, AAU, TV contracts, one-and-done and NIL.

Using the format that the NCAAT uses as the guide for what we use for the modern era, is ridiculous.

Back in the 80's, the go to offense, was playing through the post and using lumbering big guys to score inside, if you play that way now, you aren't winning shit.

Back when 15 seed Richmond beat 2 seeded Syracuse, that was massive news, now, we have 15's beating 2's far more often and heck, we're seeing 16 seeds win now.

Back in the 80's and 90's, you had great players staying 4 years, you aren't seeing guys like that stay around for more than 2 years now.

The NCAAT format didn’t change the game as much as all those other things did.

 

[ExitFlagger]

No, it's all true, you are as bad as the biggest UK homer on Rupp Rafters and it's not even up for debate.

Nope. Unlike you and them, I use logic and don't make absurd claims. I also don't create daily hate threads about Kentucky. In fact, I've never created one thread about Kentucky.

Tell me again about how Hagans was obviously flaunting somebody else's cash, even though we have proof of a documented payment plan and contact w/ an agent. Probably the most homerish take I've ever seen on these boards. 😂

All right, let's take them one by one...

So I think "KU is da greatest." Does that mean greatest of all time or modern era? I've never said either.

"Refuses to say a negative word about KU." Not at all true. It's very true about you and Kentucky, though, outside of criticizing Calipari.

"Refuses to admit KU cheated." My stance has always been that it was happening everywhere. Obviously you have a serious reading comprehension problem.

"Can't stand UK fans." I like plenty of UK fans. I get annoyed by the Rafters type. Guess you don't see the difference.

"Will never admit UK is good at anything." A few posts ago I said I have no problem with calling Kentucky the GOAT. Guess that doesn't count as being good at something?

Do you think you'll stop talking out of your ass one of these days?