Give me your new AP top 10 tomorrow...

[bignish]

Michigan state was a dumpster fire back then. I mean, they lost to James Madison.

They have 9 losses and have been unranked all year long.

You're just going off their name. If Utah had the same resume and duke beat them, you wouldn’t say they were a good W.

Michigan State is Clemson light this year, but with a better coach.

Every team has bad losses dude and JMU is actually solid this year. JMU is #55 in the NET rankings and 65th on KenPom. Kentucky lost to UNCW at home for crying out loud which is a much worse loss as UNCW is outside the top 100 in all the metrics.

Michigan St punked Baylor on a neutral site, swept Maryland and beat Indiana St.

Utah is solidly worse than Michigan St according to all the metrics so no I wouldn't compare them to Sparty at all.

 

[bignish]

Clemson is basically the Florida(this year not historically) of the ACC. They look great at times when they are on a heater on offense, but they have had a few games were they get completely out of sync and look like a NIT type team.

Yep that's a fair assessment. I think they're a solid tournament team that could make the Sweet 16 with the right matchups. PJ Hall is an awesome player.

I feel the same way about Kentucky although I think UK's floor is lower but their ceiling is higher. I could see a Final 4 path if they get on a heater and get some upsets in the bracket along the way.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Seriously, you think SEC fans are annoying???

That might be the most hypocritical thing you have ever said and that’s pretty amazing, considering your posting style.

Do you not know how hard you conference honk? My God man.

Nah, Auburn and Cock fans, etc, aren't annoying in the slightest. 🤣😂

What have I said about the Big 12 that unbiased parties haven't? To you, it's probably conference honking to agree with the national pundits that the B12 is the top league this year. I guess I'm supposed to say it sucks.

Funny thing is, I've actually been more critical of some Big 12 teams than most national fans/analysts. I've said all year that I thought Houston's a little overrated, and I've also said all year that BYU is way overrated (by Kenpom anyway). I think most people overrate Baylor a little bit too.

On the flip side, TCU is underrated and should be ranked.

 

[kyjeff1]

There you go hurling insults again when it's you that didn't understand what you just read. 😆

No, OSU is not a 9 seed. Northwestern and A&M are projected 9 seeds. You criticized Purdue for not blowing out Northwestern.

Sorry bud, but if Purdue is going to struggle with a 9 seed like Purdue has, than maybe they aren't this great team that everyone is making them out to be.
They lost to Northwestern, Nebraska and now Ohio State. They should have lost to Northwestern at home too. Then, in the last 2 months, who have they beaten?
If they have been dominating a bunch of top 10 teams, I wouldn't think there was a chance in hell that the voters would drop.them very far, but in the last two months, they haven't beaten anyone of note and they have lost three games to questionable competition, one of which isn’t going to the NCAAT.
My thought that the voters could drop them further than they did, are very valid

 

[kyjeff1]

Whatever you say. Just because the ACC doesn't game the NET system during the non conference schedule like some of the other leagues, that doesn't mean the conference is trash.

Clemson is a good win no matter how much you think they suck. They have an All-American level player in PJ Hall and are top 30ish in all the metrics.

Clemson is 8-7 in Quad 1 and 2 games while UK is 5-6 in the same metric.

If Clemson at home isn't a good win for Duke, would beating Kentucky in Cameron also not be an impressive win for Duke? After all, its another game they're "expected to win" so its not that noteworthy right?

Dude, the ACC is trash. Just own it. It’s a 4 team league with only 1 true FF threat.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Sorry bud, but if Purdue is going to struggle with a 9 seed like Purdue has, than maybe they aren't this great team that everyone is making them out to be.
They lost to Northwestern, Nebraska and now Ohio State. They should have lost to Northwestern at home too. Then, in the last 2 months, who have they beaten?
If they have been dominating a bunch of top 10 teams, I wouldn't think there was a chance in hell that the voters would drop.them very far, but in the last two months, they haven't beaten anyone of note and they have lost three games to questionable competition, one of which isn’t going to the NCAAT.
My thought that the voters could drop them further than they did, are very valid

So Purdue isn't that great but a team with twice as many losses is "on a tear" after beating mighty Vandy, Arkansas and LSU, and losing at home to South Carolina and getting blown out by A&M. Got it. Very impartial stuff here.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Dude, the ACC is trash. Just own it. It’s a 4 team league with only 1 true FF threat.

And you claim that I criticize other teams too much? Is there a program or league that you haven't trashed lately?

 

[kyjeff1]

So Purdue isn't that great but a team with twice as many losses is "on a tear" after beating mighty Vandy, Arkansas and LSU, and losing at home to South Carolina and getting blown out by A&M. Got it. Very impartial stuff here.

Yeah, well, Tennessee didn’t lose to Ohio State and no, I don't think Purdue is as good as people are making them out to be. I think they get ousted early again this year. Their guards aren't very good and they rely on one guy to carry the load.

Who have they beaten over the last 2 months? They had a great November and December, but since then, they haven't beaten anyone all that great and lost three eye popping games. Plus, the home escape over Northwestern. is also very concerning.

 

[kyjeff1]

And you claim that I criticize other teams too much? Is there a program or league that you haven't trashed lately?

Yeah, I haven't trashed the BIG12 and I compliment KU and Bill Self constantly.

Got any other hair brained accusations?.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Yeah, I haven't trashed the BIG12 and I compliment KU and Bill Self constantly.

Got any other hair brained accusations?.

LOL. The fact that these are your examples says it all. You've trashed the Big 12 more than probably anyone on this board over the years, and you've bashed Self for tourney upsets and the Morris incident (hell, you even tried to blame him for the Terrence Shannon thing), Dickinson, etc.

 

[kyjeff1]

LOL. The fact that these are your examples says it all. You've trashed the Big 12 more than probably anyone on this board over the years, and you've bashed Self for tourney upsets and the Morris incident (hell, you even tried to blame him for the Terrence Shannon thing), Dickinson, etc.

Please privide examples.

My comments about Self's losses to mid majors were not anything that was trashing him. This is you doing what you always do, which is twist what's been said to fit your own little narrative. You’re not fooling anyone.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Yeah, well, Tennessee didn’t lose to Ohio State and no, I don't think Purdue is as good as people are making them out to be. I think they get ousted early again this year. Their guards aren't very good and they rely on one guy to carry the load.

Who have they beaten over the last 2 months? They had a great November and December, but since then, they haven't beaten anyone all that great and lost three eye popping games. Plus, the home escape over Northwestern. is also very concerning.

Harping on the Ohio St thing is really weird. One, we're talking about a top 10 all time program. I'm guessing they have some talent on the roster. And you should know that firing a coach can sometimes galvanize a team. Two, they're 15-11 and #62 on Kenpom. Kentucky lost at home to a far worse team and you think they're way underrated.

Northwestern's a top 50 team too.

How exactly is Purdue supposed to match the wins they had early on if they're not playing teams as good as those?

 

[kyjeff1]

Harping on the Ohio St thing is really weird. One, we're talking about a top 10 all time program. I'm guessing they have some talent on the roster. And you should know that firing a coach can sometimes galvanize a team. Two, they're 15-11 and #62 on Kenpom. Kentucky lost at home to a far worse team and you think they're way underrated.

Northwestern's a top 50 team too.

How exactly is Purdue supposed to match the wins they had early on if they're not playing teams as good as those?

What does Ohio's status as a top 10 program of all time have to do with anything in this discussion? Weird take, even for you.

So what if Northwestern is top 50 program, wtf does that have to do with anything?

 

[bignish]

Dude, the ACC is trash. Just own it. It’s a 4 team league with only 1 true FF threat.

The SEC has one true contender right now in Tennessee and the expectation for the rest of the teams is a 1st round exit or to make the 2nd weekend (Auburn).

Are you up to make an avatar bet on the SEC vs ACC? I"ll say UNC, Duke and Clemson and will win more NCAAT games combined than Tennessee, Alabama and Kentucky in the NCAAT this year.

You in? The SEC refs won't be able to protect you in the Big Dance.

 

[kyjeff1]

The SEC has one true contender right now in Tennessee and the expectation for the rest of the teams is a 1st round exit or to make the 2nd weekend (Auburn).

Are you up to make an avatar bet on the SEC vs ACC? I"ll say UNC, Duke and Clemson and will win more NCAAT games combined than Tennessee, Alabama and Kentucky in the NCAAT this year.

You in? The SEC refs won't be able to protect you in the Big Dance.

Oh hell yeah, I'm in on that bet.

 

[bignish]

Oh hell yeah, I'm in on that bet.

You can choose whichever combo of Alabama, Auburn and UK you want to round out your top 3 to go against UNC, Clemson and Duke.

I'm assuming you want UK so let me know which of Bama and Auburn you want to ride as your 3rd horse and I'm in.

 

[ExitFlagger]

What does Ohio's status as a top 10 program of all time have to do with anything in this discussion? Weird take, even for you.

So what if Northwestern is top 50 program, wtf does that have to do with anything?

If you're going to condescend to people, you should probably at least learn to read. 🤣

 

[della]

The SEC has one true contender right now in Tennessee and the expectation for the rest of the teams is a 1st round exit or to make the 2nd weekend (Auburn).

Are you up to make an avatar bet on the SEC vs ACC? I"ll say UNC, Duke and Clemson and will win more NCAAT games combined than Tennessee, Alabama and Kentucky in the NCAAT this year.

You in? The SEC refs won't be able to protect you in the Big Dance.

You sure about that?

 

[della]

You can choose whichever combo of Alabama, Auburn and UK you want to round out your top 3 to go against UNC, Clemson and Duke.

I'm assuming you want UK so let me know which of Bama and Auburn you want to ride as your 3rd horse and I'm in.

I thought the bet included UT? Are you changing the rules?

 

[Noahtogo24]

I thought the bet included UT? Are you changing the rules?

I think he believes it’s a lock Jeff will pick UT in his three, unsure what combo of UK, Bama and Auburn he picks in his final 2.

 

[della]

I think he believes it’s a lock Jeff will pick UT in his three, unsure what combo of UK, Bama and Auburn he picks in his final 2.

Sounds like a hose job. Jeff gets to pick any 3 from the SEC period.

 

[Noahtogo24]

Sounds like a hose job. Jeff gets to pick any 3 from the SEC period.

True, but I think everyone agrees as of now, Vols do have the best chance from the SEC to make the final four.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Whatever you say. Just because the ACC doesn't game the NET system during the non conference schedule like some of the other leagues, that doesn't mean the conference is trash.

Clemson is a good win no matter how much you think they suck. They have an All-American level player in PJ Hall and are top 30ish in all the metrics.

Clemson is 8-7 in Quad 1 and 2 games while UK is 5-6 in the same metric.

If Clemson at home isn't a good win for Duke, would beating Kentucky in Cameron also not be an impressive win for Duke? After all, its another game they're "expected to win" so its not that noteworthy right?

There is not one person who follows college basketball, whether it is the media, analysts, or unbiased fans that thinks the ACC is good. The conference isn't even average. It blows. Complete trash dude. You can keep pumping it up, but it is no different then what the SEC was for years in the 2000s and 2010s. Absolutely no difference.

Again, put Duke and UNC in the SEC and see how they do. Easily 3-5 more losses then what either team has now. I just looked at both of their conference schedules, absolutely pathetic.

UK is 3-0 against the ACC for whatever that is worth (since you decided to bring up UK)...

And as I type this, Virginia, who has the third best record in the ACC, might not even reach 40 pts tonight. Absolutely pathetic.

 

[della]

True, but I think everyone agrees as of now, Vols do have the best chance from the SEC to make the final four.

If we are talking about Conference true strength then you would add up the ACC/SEC top three performances after the contest.

 

[kyjeff1]

You can choose whichever combo of Alabama, Auburn and UK you want to round out your top 3 to go against UNC, Clemson and Duke.

I'm assuming you want UK so let me know which of Bama and Auburn you want to ride as your 3rd horse and I'm in.

Not sure if I follow, we're comparing the 6 teams you listed right?
Alabama, UK, Auburn
Vs
Duke, uNC, Clemson

I would rather use Tennessee than Auburn though, they're probably the best team in the SEC right now. So my 3 would be UK, Bama and UT from the SEC.

 

[kyjeff1]

You sure about that?

No, he’s just trying to throw a punch at the SEC, doesn't matter to me. Nobody thought UConn was a contender last year, didn't think Villanova had a shot in '16, didn't think UConn, or UK had a shot in '14 etc…

 

[della]

No, he’s just trying to throw a punch at the SEC, doesn't matter to me. Nobody thought UConn was a contender last year, didn't think Villanova had a shot in '16, didn't think UConn, or UK had a shot in '14 etc…

Stick and Jab Jeff, Stick and Jab. Don't worry, I won't let him pull some unfair bet over on you.

 

[kyjeff1]

Stick and Jab Jeff, Stick and Jab. Don't worry, I won't let him pull some unfair bet over on you.

That’s easy money.
I like uNC though, I think they can do some damage.
Duke could too I guess, they're getting better, but if they run into a physical team, they'll have a tough time.
I actually like Wake Forest's guards and Clemson's big guy too, but each one of those teams has big flaws.

 

[della]

That’s easy money.
I like uNC though, I think they can do some damage.
Duke could too I guess, they're getting better, but if they run into a physical team, they'll have a tough time.
I actually like Wake Forest's guards and Clemson's big guy too, but each one of those teams has big flaws.

What in the hell are you talking about? UT and UK will carve a path of Glory through the NCAA. Thee ACC has no chance!

 

[bignish]

Not sure if I follow, we're comparing the 6 teams you listed right?
Alabama, UK, Auburn
Vs
Duke, uNC, Clemson

I would rather use Tennessee than Auburn though, they're probably the best team in the SEC right now. So my 3 would be UK, Bama and UT from the SEC.

For the ACC, it seems like there will be 3 teams that will be top 6ish seeds while UVA might be a 8-10 seed so they're the least likely to make a run.

I think we agree with this bet on principle but we can finalize the details later because there's a chance 2 of UT, UK and Bama end up in the same region which would cap their total possible wins since 2 of them could face off in the Sweet 16. I wouldn't want you to get screwed by that and I wouldn't want to get screwed if Clemson ends up in the same region as Duke/UNC and they're matched up in the Sweet 16 capping my total wins too.

Lets wait till the bracket is finalized and then we can confirm. It seems like you'd use UT and UK for sure while I'd use Duke and UNC. We can decide on the 3rd team in March.

 

[della]

For the ACC, it seems like there will be 3 teams that will be top 6ish seeds while UVA might be a 8-10 seed so they're the least likely to make a run.

I think we agree with this bet on principle but we can finalize the details later because there's a chance 2 of UT, UK and Bama end up in the same region which would cap their total possible wins since 2 of them could face off in the Sweet 16. I wouldn't want you to get screwed by that and I wouldn't want to get screwed if Clemson ends up in the same region as Duke/UNC and they're matched up in the Sweet 16 capping my total wins too.

Lets wait till the bracket is finalized and then we can confirm. It seems like you'd use UT and UK for sure while I'd use Duke and UNC. We can decide on the 3rd team in March.

What exactly is the disagreement that this bet is suppose to settle?

 

[bignish]

There is not one person who follows college basketball, whether it is the media, analysts, or unbiased fans that thinks the ACC is good. The conference isn't even average. It blows. Complete trash dude. You can keep pumping it up, but it is no different then what the SEC was for years in the 2000s and 2010s. Absolutely no difference.

Again, put Duke and UNC in the SEC and see how they do. Easily 3-5 more losses then what either team has now. I just looked at both of their conference schedules, absolutely pathetic.

UK is 3-0 against the ACC for whatever that is worth (since you decided to bring up UK)...

And as I type this, Virginia, who has the third best record in the ACC, might not even reach 40 pts tonight. Absolutely pathetic.

Some conferences are more top heavy with more true contenders while others are more balanced.

If you compare the SEC to the ACC, both UT and UNC are 2 Seeds while Alabama and Duke are both 3 Seeds.

Auburn > Clemson

Kentucky > UVA

Wake Forest = Florida
VT = Texas A&M
Pittsburgh = Mississippi St
Ole Miss = NC State
Miami = LSU

I agree the SEC is better because your #3 and #4 teams are better than the ACC's #3 and #4 teams but its not some huge difference.

UNC beat Tennessee, Clemson destroyed Alabama, Syracuse already crushed LSU, Wake Forest beat Florida, UVA beat A&M and Georgia Tech beat Mississippi St.

Saying Duke and UNC would have 3-5 more losses if they played in the SEC is ridiculous and shows your SEC bias.

 

[kyjeff1]

For the ACC, it seems like there will be 3 teams that will be top 6ish seeds while UVA might be a 8-10 seed so they're the least likely to make a run.

I think we agree with this bet on principle but we can finalize the details later because there's a chance 2 of UT, UK and Bama end up in the same region which would cap their total possible wins since 2 of them could face off in the Sweet 16. I wouldn't want you to get screwed by that and I wouldn't want to get screwed if Clemson ends up in the same region as Duke/UNC and they're matched up in the Sweet 16 capping my total wins too.

Lets wait till the bracket is finalized and then we can confirm. It seems like you'd use UT and UK for sure while I'd use Duke and UNC. We can decide on the 3rd team in March.

Happens a lot where 2 of the better teams from a conference end up in the same bracket.
Alright, lets reconvene on Selection Sunday.

 

[Afamu]

There is not one person who follows college basketball, whether it is the media, analysts, or unbiased fans that thinks the ACC is good. The conference isn't even average. It blows. Complete trash dude. You can keep pumping it up, but it is no different then what the SEC was for years in the 2000s and 2010s. Absolutely no difference.

Again, put Duke and UNC in the SEC and see how they do. Easily 3-5 more losses then what either team has now. I just looked at both of their conference schedules, absolutely pathetic.

UK is 3-0 against the ACC for whatever that is worth (since you decided to bring up UK)...

And as I type this, Virginia, who has the third best record in the ACC, might not even reach 40 pts tonight. Absolutely pathetic.

Do you have the lottery numbers handy?

 

[della]

UNC beat Tennessee, Clemson destroyed Alabama, Syracuse already crushed LSU, Wake Forest beat Florida, UVA beat A&M and Georgia Tech beat Mississippi St.

Saying Duke and UNC would have 3-5 more losses if they played in the SEC is ridiculous and shows your SEC bias.

Your analysis of who beat who regarding bearing of things today is flawed. UT would be a solid favorite over UNC today and bama would be picked over Clemson also. Every current measurement and tool expresses that.

You can't state who beat who as a point and then show xyz and in the next paragraph make the case that extra losses don't matter. That is cherry picking an argument.

Right now, the SEC is the more powerful Conference based on today's data. That of course doesn't mean that UT can't lay an egg in the tourney or that UNC can't catch fire, but it does say that based on the info SEC>ACC.

 

[kyjeff1]

Most teams have greatly improved over the last couple months (Iowa State, Alabama, Florida, UT, Duke etc… ) and some others have regressed (Wisconsin, uNC a little, FAU, Clemson is up and down, Texas etc… ) so I don't think we can point to games that happened in November and act like they would have the same results now.

Like, there's no way Clemson is going to go to Tuscaloosa today and beat Bama, if UT played uNC right now, I don't think uNC wins, if UK were to play UNCW right now, they would win by 20, if duke played Arizona at home again, they probably win and it's possible Purdue beats KU if they played right now.

It’s nice to say you have those wins, but right now, I would take the SEC's top 5 over the entire ACC. Don't discount Florida, they are on a heater right now, won 8 out of 9 and the 1 loss was a 1 pt road loss. Their guards are some of the best in the country.

The SEC's top 5 right now:
Bama
UT
Florida
Auburn
KY
In that order. But by tournament time, I expect to see a different order with the same 5 as the best teams

What’s the top 5 in the ACC?
uNC
Duke
Clemson
VT
UVA
?

I like Wake's guards, but I'm not sure about the rest of the team.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Some conferences are more top heavy with more true contenders while others are more balanced.

If you compare the SEC to the ACC, both UT and UNC are 2 Seeds while Alabama and Duke are both 3 Seeds.

Auburn > Clemson

Kentucky > UVA

Wake Forest = Florida
VT = Texas A&M
Pittsburgh = Mississippi St
Ole Miss = NC State
Miami = LSU

I agree the SEC is better because your #3 and #4 teams are better than the ACC's #3 and #4 teams but its not some huge difference.

UNC beat Tennessee, Clemson destroyed Alabama, Syracuse already crushed LSU, Wake Forest beat Florida, UVA beat A&M and Georgia Tech beat Mississippi St.

Saying Duke and UNC would have 3-5 more losses if they played in the SEC is ridiculous and shows your SEC bias.

I have no SEC bias. I am not some fan who is into conference honking. I actively root against most SEC teams in the tourney. I was rooting big time for Duke to knock off Tennessee in the tourney last yr...but y'all played like garbage and were physically dominated the entire game.

But I also have a functioning brain, two eyes, and can look at the metrics. The ACC blows.

Duke and UNC would easily have 3-5 more losses. Heck, Duke couldn't even beat flippin Arkansas, one of the worst teams in the SEC. Yet somehow they wouldn't struggle playing UT (who they just lost to last yr), UK, Auburn, Bama, SC, FL, etc??

Not buying it.

 

[della]

I have no SEC bias. I am not some fan who is into conference honking. I actively root against most SEC teams in the tourney. I was rooting big time for Duke to knock off Tennessee in the tourney last yr...but y'all played like garbage and were physically dominated the entire game.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Hey...as a UK fan, my, let's say dislike, knows no bounds when it comes to the majority of SEC teams, which greatly trumps my dislike of Duke, UNC, or KU.

I would rather sweep UT then beat any of the teams I listed (if I had to choose).

 

[della]

Hey...as a UK fan, my, let's say dislike, knows no bounds when it comes to the majority of SEC teams, which greatly trumps my dislike of Duke, UNC, or KU.

I would rather sweep UT then beat any of the teams I listed (if I had to choose).

Ok, but don’t expect to save you a s’more at the next SEC cookout. Just sayin.