Give a basketball hot take

[kyjeff1]

I don’t understand how any college basketball fan can say that Arizona basketball wouldn’t be a great addition to any conference. Even though they’ve historically underperformed with their high talent level , they’re still a top eight program in the last thirty years on every list of teams I’ve seen.

You answered your own question. See the second bolded sentence.

Seriously, what has Arizona accomplished? Not just recently either, what have they done the last 20 years that puts them so high on your list? They rank ahead of Oklahoma and Texas because Lute Olson won a title 26 years ago, that’s it.

Sorry, but Sean Miller sucked balls as a coach. He could buy recruits with the best of them, but his style of play was extremely bland and his players never played with extreme effort. I am not seeing much difference with Lloyd either.

They have a lot of 1st round losses, missed the NCAAT 4 times since 2010 (not including 19/20) and they consistently lose to lower seeds in the NCAAT.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are a really good addition to any league, but I think when the dust settles, you'll see there isn't much difference between them and Texas.

I think Arizona is going to struggle in the BIG12. The PAC had too many bottom feeders to really take the league seriously.

 

[kyjeff1]

I genuinely wonder if Jeff follows anything outside of SEC football/basketball....

The dude tried to argue that they're not that good because they missed the tourney three times recently. One of those was the Covid year and another was the year they were banned from the postseason. Aside from that, they've missed the tourney 3x in 40 years. 😂

What has Arizona accomplished the last 25 years? I'll wait.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Good God, so much wasted time and writings on this topic. If we're being real, UK is the All-time best hoops program in the SEC and KU is the best in the Big 12. Comparisons and what-if scenarios are a huge waste of time.

24-11, 8-4 is the whole story between the 2 programs. That's it.

Always gotta circle it back somehow to make yourself feel like the "winner," don't you? 😂

Bunch of children.

 

[JC for 3]

Always gotta circle it back somehow to make yourself feel like the "winner," don't you? 😂

Bunch of children.

Truth is the truth. I'm not making anything up.

 

[englandnu]

I genuinely wonder if Jeff follows anything outside of SEC football/basketball....

The dude tried to argue that they're not that good because they missed the tourney three times recently. One of those was the Covid year and another was the year they were banned from the postseason. Aside from that, they've missed the tourney 3x in 40 years. 😂

And that was a self imposed ban. They would’ve been a tournament team that year too.

 

[ExitFlagger]

What has Arizona accomplished the last 25 years? I'll wait.

This is funny on so many levels. The dude who criticizes timeframing just chose a timeframe that conveniently cuts out a national title that occurred two seasons before the beginning of the timeframe. 😂

Good stuff.

This is why I laugh when you guys get offended by generalizations. You and JC are no different than anyone who posts on Rafters. ****, even THEY would probably admit that Arizona's a good program.

To answer the question, in the last 25 years, they've been to a national title game, 6 elite 8s and a bunch of Sweet 16s. Won a ton of games with no losing seasons and only missed the tourney twice.

If you're trying to argue that only national titles are accomplishments, you realize that Kentucky only has one more in that span, right? And does that mean that KU has been twice the program that Kentucky's been in that span? And UNC's been 3x better?

 

[ExitFlagger]

Truth is the truth. I'm not making anything up.

No, you're just interjecting completely irrelevant details in an effort to make your dick look bigger.

What did I say that was untrue? That a sportswriter is going to base projections for the near future on current coaches and recent history? The fact that you can't admit that simple fact says it all.

Children.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

@Kevin Bryan come lock this thread. Watching people from 2 States so unimportant that between the two of them they don't have a single professional sports franchise argue about who is better is even more pathetic than yesterday's DePaul vs Illini tizzie. Look at Kansas, a state so shitty that their best city isn't even in Kansas, it's in Missouri. And look at Kentucky, a State who's most popular leisure activity is cousin-fvcking.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

@Kevin Bryan come lock this thread. Watching people from 2 States so unimportant that between the two of them they don't have a single professional sports franchise argue about who is better is even more pathetic than yesterday's DePaul vs Illini tizzie. Look at Kansas, a state so shitty that their best city isn't even in Kansas, it's in Missouri. And look at Kentucky, a State who's most popular leisure activity is cousin-fvcking.

As a former Indiana and Duke fan, you are dead to me now.

 

[ExitFlagger]

@Kevin Bryan come lock this thread. Watching people from 2 States so unimportant that between the two of them they don't have a single professional sports franchise argue about who is better is even more pathetic than yesterday's DePaul vs Illini tizzie. Look at Kansas, a state so shitty that their best city isn't even in Kansas, it's in Missouri. And look at Kentucky, a State who's most popular leisure activity is cousin-fvcking.

The Chiefs and Royals are in my backyard, just over State Line, bitch. The KC area has been shitting all over big market Chicago. 🤣

 

[VulvHa]

JFC…go find a rest stop bathroom and fck already

 

[JC for 3]

No, you're just interjecting completely irrelevant details in an effort to make your dick look bigger.

What did I say that was untrue? That a sportswriter is going to base projections for the near future on current coaches and recent history? The fact that you can't admit that simple fact says it all.

Children.

You just keep trying to pass off your opinion as fact. That's the problem.

24-11
8-4.

 

[JC for 3]

An Illinois guy calling other states 'shitholes'... oh, the irony.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

An Illinois guy calling other states 'shitholes'... oh, the irony.

touche. But at least we can enjoy attending local pro sporting events while our vehicles get car jacked in the parking lot.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

As a former Indiana and Duke fan, you are dead to me now.

the key is the former part. I learned the error of my ways and left both those programs and now am firmly in the camps of DePaul and LSU. So clearly I had the last laugh.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

the key is the former part. I learned the error of my ways and left both those programs and now am firmly in the camps of DePaul and LSU. So clearly I had the last laugh.

LSU now?! Where did this come from?

 

[ExitFlagger]

You just keep trying to pass off your opinion as fact. That's the problem.

24-11
8-4.

LOL. Sure, big guy. You're right. It's an opinion. Which 99.9% of the world would agree with. 🤣

 

[JC for 3]

LOL. Sure, big guy. You're right. It's an opinion. Which 99.9% of the world would agree with. 🤣

FACTS> opinion.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

LSU now?! Where did this come from?

maybe if you paid attention to your job more you'd already know this by now. Been a diehard LSU fan since 1987 when a 16 year old me attending the first two rounds of the NCAA at Rosemont Horizon and fell in with the LSU and hung out with their fans all weekend. Helped that they came out of nowhere to win 2 games that weekend. Been following them ever since.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

maybe if you paid attention to your job more you'd already know this by now. Been a diehard LSU fan since 1987 when a 16 year old me attending the first two rounds of the NCAA at Rosemont Horizon and fell in with the LSU and hung out with their fans all weekend. Helped that they came out of nowhere to win 2 games that weekend. Been following them ever since.

I hate you..

 

[ExitFlagger]

FACTS> opinion.

Are you claiming to have facts that prove me wrong?

You're all sorts of confused, aren't you? 🤣

 

[ExitFlagger]

Don't get me wrong, I think they are a really good addition to any league, but I think when the dust settles, you'll see there isn't much difference between them and Texas.

Hey, guys, I know I've been asking "what makes Arizona a good addition" for like 5 pages now, but don't get me wrong...they're a really good addition to any league. 🤣

 

[ExitFlagger]

If we're being real, UK is the All-time best hoops program in the SEC

That's your opinion.

Facts > opinion

 

[IUfanBorden]

maybe if you paid attention to your job more you'd already know this by now. Been a diehard LSU fan since 1987 when a 16 year old me attending the first two rounds of the NCAA at Rosemont Horizon and fell in with the LSU and hung out with their fans all weekend. Helped that they came out of nowhere to win 2 games that weekend. Been following them ever since.

Do all DePaul fans have multiple favorite teams? 🤣 🤣

 

[kyjeff1]

This is funny on so many levels. The dude who criticizes timeframing just chose a timeframe that conveniently cuts out a national title that occurred two seasons before the beginning of the timeframe. 😂

Good stuff.

This is why I laugh when you guys get offended by generalizations. You and JC are no different than anyone who posts on Rafters. ****, even THEY would probably admit that Arizona's a good program.

To answer the question, in the last 25 years, they've been to a national title game, 6 elite 8s and a bunch of Sweet 16s. Won a ton of games with no losing seasons and only missed the tourney twice.

If you're trying to argue that only national titles are accomplishments, you realize that Kentucky only has one more in that span, right? And does that mean that KU has been twice the program that Kentucky's been in that span? And UNC's been 3x better?

Wait a minute, I'm going off your normal criteria here, you're the one that keeps talking about the here and now, if you want to go from 1995-2023, we can do that, it's your choice, but I don't know what Lute Olson's 1997 title is going to do for Arizona when they enter the BIG12. Does it make sense to you to talk about 26+ years ago when were talking about Arizona entering the BIG12?

That’s what we are talking about though, this is about today's teams, because Arizona is moving to the BIG12 now, not 26 years ago.

So answer the question, what has Arizona accomplished in the modern era that makes them so good? I'll wait.

 

[kyjeff1]

Hey, guys, I know I've been asking "what makes Arizona a good addition" for like 5 pages now, but don't get me wrong...they're a really good addition to any league. 🤣

What I have been asking is, what makes them any different than Oklahoma or Texas?
But now I understand why this has gone 5 pages, you interpret shit the way you want.

 

[IUfanBorden]

The difference between AZ and Texas is............


AZ( 37 NCAAT)
1 Natty
1 Runner-up
4 FF's
11 E8
20 SW 16

Texas(37 NCAAT)
0 Natty's
0 Runner-ups
3 FF's
8 E8
11 SW 16

Texas is 13th all-time wins...AZ is 19th.

 

[IUfanBorden]

What I have been asking is, what makes them any different than Oklahoma or Texas?
But now I understand why this has gone 5 pages, you interpret shit the way you want.

Not a ton, tbh....

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Do all DePaul fans have multiple favorite teams? 🤣 🤣

All 7 of them?

 

[kyjeff1]

Not a ton, tbh....

There really isn't. Like I said, once the dust settles, Arizona will be Oklatexas 2.0.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Thing is, it's always 3 or 4 of the top shelf SEC programs that are good in a given year. Right now, it's Alabama, Georgia and LSU with UT not far behind, but when UGA wasn't what they are now, Auburn was there, before that it was Tennessee, before that it was Florida. The league is extremely deep in football.

And circling back to basketball, it's cyclical in the Big 12 too. You can talk about the mediocre histories of various schools all you want, but the bottom line is that there's always been strong competition for KU during the Self era. Which is why they rarely win the league by a big margin.

Oklahoma St was good in the early 2000s. Texas was good for a decade under Barnes. Texas Tech had a nice 5 year run. WV was solid for 5 years or so. Baylor's been great the last 5 years. Oklahoma and K-State have had their moments. A&M and Missouri had a few good teams too. There was always a top 10ish team standing in the way, and sometimes multiple.

You have to understand, Geogia isn’t going to just fall off the top rope now, they have Kirby Smart and he appears to be heading for a Nick Saban/Alabama type dominance, the days of the Mark Richt face palms are long gone. They are collecting 5* talent 2 and 3 deep at every position.

As far as UK basketball goes, UK lost the SEC by 4 games in 22/23 because the head coach is a hard headed idiot. This is a team that went to Tennessee and Arkansas and beat both their asses, but lost at home to Georgia. They went 9-16 in 20/21 for the same reason. Lost to Saint Peters for the same reason, but also had key players injured in the backcourt. The bottom line is, John Calipari has turned into a massive narcissist that prioritizes the nba draft, that’s disgusting to me and I'm ready for him to move on.

Well, there ya go. And of course Calipari's the problem. It definitely isn't the 50,000 NBA dudes he's recruited. And before him were BCG and Tubby. At no point was Kentucky going to rattle off a comparable streak in the SEC, Big 12, anywhere. Round robin, Red Robin, balanced, unbalanced. Doesn't matter.

Why do you think I'm mocking KU's streak???

Oh, I don't know....maybe because you've repeatedly said that it isn't impressive and that the Big 12 wasn't very good? 🤣

Round robin is an advantage, because you get each opponent at home, in the SEC, you might get Arkansas and Auburn on the road, but not at home. Tennessee might get them at home, but not on the road. In that scenario, you're at a huge disadvantage and that's not even talking about the ridiculous road environments UK has to face compared to the rest of the SEC.

I think you're confused. How exactly is the round robin format an advantage to KU vs other Big 12 teams? You realize they're playing the same schedule, right? And you don't think KU faces ridiculous road environments compared to the rest of the B12? A team that won it 14 times in a row? 🤣😂

And you still don't seem to grasp that the SEC format is going to work in Kentucky's favor as often as it doesn't. It balances out. I don't know what's so complicated about this.

My God man, you just keep this shit going, are you getting paid per post?

Nah, I'm getting paid WHILE I post.

 

[kyjeff1]

And circling back to basketball, it's cyclical in the Big 12 too. You can talk about the mediocre histories of various schools all you want, but the bottom line is that there's always been strong competition for KU during the Self era. Which is why they rarely win the league by a big margin.

Oklahoma St was good in the early 2000s. Texas was good for a decade under Barnes. Texas Tech had a nice 5 year run. WV was solid for 5 years or so. Baylor's been great the last 5 years. Oklahoma and K-State have had their moments. A&M and Missouri had a few good teams too. There was always a top 10ish team standing in the way, and sometimes multiple.



Well, there ya go. And of course Calipari's the problem. It definitely isn't the 50,000 NBA dudes he's recruited. And before him were BCG and Tubby. At no point was Kentucky going to rattle off a comparable streak in the SEC, Big 12, anywhere. Round robin, Red Robin, balanced, unbalanced. Doesn't matter.



Oh, I don't know....maybe because you've repeatedly said that it isn't impressive and that the Big 12 wasn't very good? 🤣



I think you're confused. How exactly is the round robin format an advantage to KU vs other Big 12 teams? You realize they're playing the same schedule, right? And you don't think KU faces ridiculous road environments compared to the rest of the B12? A team that won it 14 times in a row? 🤣😂

And you still don't seem to grasp that the SEC format is going to work in Kentucky's favor as often as it doesn't. It balances out. I don't know what's so complicated about this.



Nah, I'm getting paid WHILE I post

We've been over all this a million times, why you keep coming at me with the same questions over and over is crazy to me.

I never said the round robin format was an advantage over other BIG12 teams, I said it was an advantage over any non big12 team.

KU has one of the biggest home court advantages in cbb, so when you get each conference team at home, your odds of winning the league go up.

What would happen if you had to play Texas, Baylor and/or Oklahoma on the road, but you don't get them at home? That's what I'm talking about.

Duke, UK, uNC etc… don't have that luxury. Like I said, we might have to play @ Auburn and @ Arkansas, with no return trips and Tennessee might get thoae two teams at home only and get teams like Ole Miss and Miss state on the road. If KU had to play by thoae rules, they don't win 14 straight.

I'm sure you'll say otherwise. Ho hum.

 

[ExitFlagger]

There really isn't. Like I said, once the dust settles, Arizona will be Oklatexas 2.0.

First of all, we weren't talking about "once the dust settles." We're talking about the near future. You said that the SEC will be stronger than the Big 12 "very soon," remember?

Texas has a coach who accomplished nothing in his career before last season. He's only there because Texas finally made a decent run in the tourney under his watch as interim coach. And he only made that run because Chris Beard recruited a loaded freaking roster. A good coach would have won it all with that team. Texas didn't want to fire the guy who was in charge during their best season in years, so they're now stuck with a really underwhelming hire.

Porter Moser has been a Div 1 head coach for about 20 years and has three tourney appearances. The only reason he got a major conference job is one flukey Cinderella run 6 years ago. So far he's 34-33 at Oklahoma.

These guys are two of the weakest coaches in any major conference, yet you're arguing that somehow their future is brighter than Arizona's, a team that's already off to a really solid start under their new coach. Nahhh, definitely no homerism there.

 

[ExitFlagger]

We've been over all this a million times, why you keep coming at me with the same questions over and over is crazy to me.

I never said the round robin format was an advantage over other BIG12 teams, I said it was an advantage over any non big12 team.

Actually, you did. You said it was one of the reasons for the streak. Even though that's foolish and doesn't take into account that half the streak was before the round robin.

You also said that Kentucky would roll off a bunch of SEC titles if they played in a round robin. That means you think it would give them a big advantage over SEC opponents.

KU has one of the biggest home court advantages in cbb, so when you get each conference team at home, your odds of winning the league go up.

But....you get 'em each on the road too. And I hate to tell ya, but their home court advantage is no better than for a lot of Big 12 teams when KU comes to town. Those buildings are full and hostile every time. Even a school like Baylor, which has had a lot of recent success, doesn't face anywhere close to the environments or energy that KU faces. But they've been on KU's level for awhile now. You're telling me that's an advantage for KU? Much less a huge advantage? You really don't think this stuff through, do you?

What would happen if you had to play Texas, Baylor and/or Oklahoma on the road, but you don't get them at home? That's what I'm talking about.

What happened was KU still dominated the league. The round robin's only been in place for a little over a decade.

If KU had to play by thoae rules, they don't win 14 straight.

You literally just claimed that you weren’t saying KU had an advantage over other Big 12 teams. You couldn’t make it through one post without contradicting yourself. 😆

It’s really obvious that you just make this shit up as you go.

I'm sure you'll say otherwise. Ho hum.

Is this seriously how you debate? Ignore any fact or detail you don't like and never consider the other side of the coin? How many times do I have to point out that the format also BENEFITS UK too, and that it balances out over time? Good Lord, man.

Is this something they cry about on Rafters or what? I’m sure those goons think the SEC slams them with the toughest schedule in the league every year as part of a conspiracy to keep them down. 🤣

 

[kyjeff1]

Actually, you did. You said it was one of the reasons for the streak. Even though that's foolish and doesn't take into account that half the streak was before the round robin.

You also said that Kentucky would roll off a bunch of SEC titles if they played in a round robin. That means you think it would give them a big advantage over SEC opponents.




But....you get 'em each on the road too. And I hate to tell ya, but their home court advantage is no better than for a lot of Big 12 teams when KU comes to town. Those buildings are full and hostile every time. Even a school like Baylor, which has had a lot of recent success, doesn't face anywhere close to the environments or energy that KU faces. But they've been on KU's level for awhile now. You're telling me that's an advantage for KU? Much less a huge advantage? You really don't think this stuff through, do you?




What happened was KU still dominated the league. The round robin's only been in place for a little over a decade.



You literally just claimed that you weren’t saying KU had an advantage over other Big 12 teams. You couldn’t make it through one post without contradicting yourself. 😆

It’s really obvious that you just make this shit up as you go.



Is this seriously how you debate? Ignore any fact or detail you don't like and never consider the other side of the coin? How many times do I have to point out that the format also BENEFITS UK too, and that it balances out over time? Good Lord, man.

Is this something they cry about on Rafters or what? I’m sure those goons think the SEC slams them with the toughest schedule in the league every year as part of a conspiracy to keep them down. 🤣

They cry about everything on Rafters.

I'm not going through all that again, I'm tired.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Fyi, I've got no problem with you, man. Sorry if I come off as a douche. The way I see it, we're on the same team. Just ****in' around out of boredom. Or, more likely, stress.

We're just bullshitting about a sport involving teenagers. We all have much bigger fish to fry.

 

[kyjeff1]

Fyi, I've got no problem with you, man. Sorry if I come off as a douche. The way I see it, we're on the same team. Just ****in' around out of boredom. Or, more likely, stress.

We're just bullshitting about a sport involving teenagers. We all have much bigger fish to fry.

This would have been much easier in person over a couple drinks.

I'm good and I'm on the same page with you.

 

[IUfanBorden]

This would have been much easier in person over a couple drinks.

I'm good and I'm on the same page with you.

Yeah, ummm, probably not. Unless you two ***s are drinking martini's.. 🤣 🤣

 

[kyjeff1]

Yeah, ummm, probably not. Unless you two ***s are drinking martini's.. 🤣 🤣

I'd be drinking bourbon.

 

[ExitFlagger]

The difference between AZ and Texas is............


AZ( 37 NCAAT)
1 Natty
1 Runner-up
4 FF's
11 E8
20 SW 16

Texas(37 NCAAT)
0 Natty's
0 Runner-ups
3 FF's
8 E8
11 SW 16

Texas is 13th all-time wins...AZ is 19th.

In the modern era, Arizona blows them away in everything. With over twice as many tourney wins over the last decade plus. And I’d say a pretty big advantage at head coach right now.

The gap narrows some if you factor in ancient history, but those games don’t have anything to do with Rodney Terry. We’ll see what he can do with his own players. He’s never succeeded before and never even had interest from major conference programs. Making a decent run last year might have actually screwed up their future because they felt obligated to keep him.