Duke Recruiting

coryfly

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He could have let the relevant people know. If you want to support him taking a year long farewell tour that is great. Just own it. He didn't have to be all dishonest about it. He wanted the attention and everyone at Duke wanted it as well. Hell, their dumbass coaches got all bent out of shape because UNC didn't bend the knee in Chapel Hill.

You can say it was the right thing to do. You can't say he was surprised by the farewell tour being a thing. He knew what was up and loved every second of it.
 

lurkeraspect84

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you know... He knows that, at his first loss, everyone will freak out and say he sucks? Like what will happen here?



This is something that gets repeated a ton and is just the most bizarre take. Like.. you all know how college basketball works, right?

Option 1: you announce your retirement at the end of the season, giving the new head coach less time to prepare, causing players to possibly transfer unexpectedly and recruits to decommit, leaving the new coach with not enough time to secure recruits, since recruiting is a multi year thing. The upside is… people don’t talk about you retiring or something.

Option 2: you announce your retirement at the start of the season, giving the new head coach a full season to prepare, giving players who might transfer plenty of time to do so which then allows you to replace them, and which allows the new head coach to recruit players who will play for him. Of course, then people talk about the fact that you are going to retire. Which is… bad?

On what planet is option 1 the smart way to do it?

It seems that the only people who think that is the way to go is the ones who are convinced Coach K is some villainous mastermind who only said he was retiring so that… what, so a few more articles and video packages about him are made, and he has a few tiny ceremonies before some games… because, you know, he totally hasn’t gotten much attention these last 40+ years. It reeks of bitterness and jealousy. I wish all coaches would do this, so their fans and schools could really have some time to enjoy it and appreciate it for the season.
Should Jon get a pass with the talent he's got?
 

Afamu

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He could have let the relevant people know. If you want to support him taking a year long farewell tour that is great. Just own it. He didn't have to be all dishonest about it. He wanted the attention and everyone at Duke wanted it as well. Hell, their dumbass coaches got all bent out of shape because UNC didn't bend the knee in Chapel Hill.

You can say it was the right thing to do. You can't say he was surprised by the farewell tour being a thing. He knew what was up and loved every second of it.
Thanks Kreskin. Always good to have mind readers on here.
 
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TheDude1

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He could have let the relevant people know. If you want to support him taking a year long farewell tour that is great. Just own it. He didn't have to be all dishonest about it. He wanted the attention and everyone at Duke wanted it as well. Hell, their dumbass coaches got all bent out of shape because UNC didn't bend the knee in Chapel Hill.

You can say it was the right thing to do. You can't say he was surprised by the farewell tour being a thing. He knew what was up and loved every second of it.

What? I don’t care about K having a farewell tour. In fact, I specifically explained why saying in advance that he was retiring was a good idea. What are you talking about, with your “own it” thing? I feel like I’m pretty up front with what I think, and go to great lengths to explain it clearly. I am glad he announced early so Duke and Jon could prepare and recruit effectively, and it seems to have paid off, with two consecutive #1 recruiting classes. Wasn’t I really clear about this?

And your take is… he what, could have just told recruits and assistant coaches, and… the word wouldn’t get out? Like, he would tell the relevent people, which would include high school players who would end up committing to other schools… and they just wouldn’t say anything? Sure, a year of endless speculation and rumors and questions… that would gone well? Then there would be folks saying “See?! K just wanted everyone to be talking about him and asking about him!”

And where did I say he was surprised? Why would anyone think that the retirement of possibly the greatest basketball coach in history wouldn’t be a story? Nobody was surprised, and I’m not sure where you got that. But I don’t think he came up with a plan to announce at the start of the season because cared about a video package before a game and another article about him and a baseball bat from Louisville. That would be a bizarre take that I suspect would be more about hating K and assuming the worst, rather than understanding logical, practical, and reasonable motives and how basketball works.

Cory, you love assigning nefarious motive to K. He was dishonest about it. He wanted attention. He loved every second of it. No way that it just made simple sense in the world of college basketball. It’s... Well, it is something else.


Should Jon get a pass with the talent he's got?

Huh?
 
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ExitFlagger

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He could have let the relevant people know. If you want to support him taking a year long farewell tour that is great. Just own it. He didn't have to be all dishonest about it. He wanted the attention and everyone at Duke wanted it as well. Hell, their dumbass coaches got all bent out of shape because UNC didn't bend the knee in Chapel Hill.

You can say it was the right thing to do. You can't say he was surprised by the farewell tour being a thing. He knew what was up and loved every second of it.
Yeah, I’m trying to figure out why it needed to be announced to the world, rather than just to Scheyer and company.

But clearly it must be the only smart way to do it if K did it and no one else does.
 
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coryfly

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Huh? I don’t care about a farewell tour. In fact, I specifically explained why saying in advance that he was rwtiring was a good idea. What are you talking about, with your “own it” thing? I feel like I’m pretty up front with what I think, and go to great lengths to explain it clearly.

And your take is… he what, could have just told recruits and assistant coaches, and… the word wouldn’t get out? Like, he would tell the relevent people, which would include high school players who end up committing to other schools… and they just wouldn’t say anything? Sure, a year of speculation… that wouldnt be distracting at all.

And where did I say he was surprised? Why would anyone think that the retirement of possibly the greatest basketball coach in history wouldn’t be a story? But I don’t think he came up with a plan to announce at the start of the season because cared about a video package before a game and another article about him.

Cory, you love assigning motive to K. He was dishonest about it. He wanted attention. He loved every second of it. It’s..l something else.





Huh?

If by something else you mean it is accurate you are getting closer to the truth. He said he didn't want all the attention. That doesn't make sense if he was surprised by all of the attention. He is the one in control of that. I get the DYB aspect of this but there isn't even any reason for it. He wanted a year long farewell tour. It isn't like it makes him a bad person (which he isn't) but the dude narrated his own tribute videos. It fits with who he is.
 

coryfly

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Yeah, I’m trying to figure out why it needed to be announced to the world, rather than just to Scheyer and company.

But clearly it must be the only smart way to do it if K did it and no one else does.

Not only that, but he convinced his followers that the only reason he did it was to ensure the program remains strong. He sacrificed a year of adulation just for Duke. It was tough but he somehow made it though.

See example below.
 
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TheDude1

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Strange, the timing of posts got odd there.

No no, K can go ahead and narrate a video. Who cares? I am sure he enjoyed some of it! Who wouldn’t? I’m also sure there are times he found it distracting and annoying, bc it was a lot. You know that every media outlet was after him, and Duke Sports PR was ALL over it… its a once-in-history type of thing.

But if you ask me, his decision to announce his retirement wasn’t about getting two minute video packages and four minute ceremonies before a few games. That would be psychotic. I think he primarily announced it for the very simple and practical reason of allowing Jon to prepare for Duke after K.

Okay, going to bed. Day three of Disney has left me wiped the hell out, and this is definitely not worth staying up for:)
 
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dukedevilz

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From an outsider, it appears Duke fans are taking those UNC L's hard. Maybe it's losing K at the same time.

Maybe for some. I got over it pretty quick. I think it would have been harder if it was an Elite 8 game, tbh. We had a 3-point lead in the E8 against Kansas in 2018 in the final minute with the ball - and we had a 3-point lead against Michigan State with maybe 1:20 left. Ended up blowing both games. Those losses were tougher, IMO.

We reached the Final Four. Anything after that is gravy. The UNC game is not in my top 5 for toughest tournament losses.
 

dukedevilz

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1. Indiana 2002
2. UConn 1999
3. Kentucky 1998
4. UConn 2004
5. Kansas 2018 / Michigan State 2019

Those are my top 5 toughest tournament losses, FWIW.
 

TheDude1

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1. Indiana 2002
2. UConn 1999
3. Kentucky 1998
4. UConn 2004
5. Kansas 2018 / Michigan State 2019

Those are my top 5 toughest tournament losses, FWIW.

Hm, I’d have to say it is top five for me. Not as bad as either UConn game or Indiana, but worse than the UK loss (which really didn’t phase me at ALL) and worse than either Kansas or Michigan State. Now, K retiring is definitely part of it. I will say, during years of discussing the possibility of it, I did expect it to be way, way, WAY worse. It probably is harder for people who actually live in NC… I don’t know anyone who cares about UNC up north, so it’s not something that ever comes up, you know? Plus I’m old now, and I think have some perspective:)
 
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johnl1219

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He could have retired after the season and not announced a year in advance he was gonna retire like every other coach ever. Had he done that then hes the season woukd have been a smashing success.

If K had retired after the season, all the haters would say, he lied to the new recruits by not telling them he was retiring. It's almost impossible to find the right day and time to retire...you do it after the season and incoming recruits could de-commit because they thought they would be playing for that coach.

You do it before the season, and you're a POS...it's a no win because there isn't an offseason when you recruit every year.
 

lurkeraspect84

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Maybe for some. I got over it pretty quick. I think it would have been harder if it was an Elite 8 game, tbh. We had a 3-point lead in the E8 against Kansas in 2018 in the final minute with the ball - and we had a 3-point lead against Michigan State with maybe 1:20 left. Ended up blowing both games. Those losses were tougher, IMO.

We reached the Final Four. Anything after that is gravy. The UNC game is not in my top 5 for toughest tournament losses.
just playin'
 
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johnl1219

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He could have let the relevant people know. If you want to support him taking a year long farewell tour that is great. Just own it. He didn't have to be all dishonest about it. He wanted the attention and everyone at Duke wanted it as well. Hell, their dumbass coaches got all bent out of shape because UNC didn't bend the knee in Chapel Hill.

You can say it was the right thing to do. You can't say he was surprised by the farewell tour being a thing. He knew what was up and loved every second of it.
Sure, it's possible to only let the relevant people know, but there is no way a huge secret like this stays a secret. When you keep recruiting, kids and parents will feel lied to, if that secret comes out. Once the kids and parents find out that a coach has known all along, they will have less trust for that school.
 

dukedevilz

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Hm, I’d have to say it is top five for me. Not as bad as either UConn game or Indiana, but worse than the UK loss (which really didn’t phase me at ALL) and worse than either Kansas or Michigan State. Now, K retiring is definitely part of it. I will say, during years of discussing the possibility of it, I did expect it to be way, way, WAY worse. It probably is harder for people who actually live in NC… I don’t know anyone who cares about UNC up north, so it’s not something that ever comes up, you know? Plus I’m old now, and I think have some perspective:)

I think losses are harder for me when I feel like we should have won. The UNC game felt very 50-50 to me. Never felt like we were in complete control of the game. I can certainly understand why some would have the UNC loss ahead of Kansas and MSU, but I had serious doubts about this team getting to the Final Four (or even to the Elite 8, for that matter). So I already felt like the season was successful before the UNC game. I'm content with the 2022 season - and I think that's what makes the UNC loss tolerable.

We definitely should not have lost to Indiana. If you replay that game 10 times, we probably win 8-9 times... The '99 title game had a 50-50 feel to it, but felt like we could have tilted that game in our favor if we simply got Brand more involved on the offensive sets.

The Kentucky loss was hard because we were winning by 17 freaking points with under 10 minutes left. If we conceded a 17 point lead to UNC in the Final Four? Holy Crap, that absolutely would be a fantastically abysmal way to lose - and I'm not sure it could ever be topped.
 
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dukedevilz

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UConn 99 was a killer for me.
UConn 2004 hurt because of GT winning and how all of our big guys fouled out and Okafor did not.

Yeah, felt like we had that game won in 04. We were up by 8 points with 3 something left. After Horvath fouled out (Shelden and Shav fouled out previously), we were forced to put Deng at the 5. I just remember being up by 1 in the final minute and Deng had the rebound - and it seemed like Okafor just ripped the ball out of his hands, and subsequently laid the ball in the basket. Rough loss.

The expectations were so high in 99. Thought we were the better team. But, UConn did outplay us. Just really disappointed that Brand wasn't getting touches.
 

bignish

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1. Indiana 2002
2. UConn 1999
3. Kentucky 1998
4. UConn 2004
5. Kansas 2018 / Michigan State 2019

Those are my top 5 toughest tournament losses, FWIW.
Lot of Duke grads I know who went to school at that time put the LSU 2006 loss up there too during Shelden and JJ's senior year. We were ACC Regular Season and Tournament Champs that year.

Losing to LSU and Big Baby in the Sweet 16 was brutal.
 

Afamu

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Yeah, felt like we had that game won in 04. We were up by 8 points with 3 something left. After Horvath fouled out (Shelden and Shav fouled out previously), we were forced to put Deng at the 5. I just remember being up by 1 in the final minute and Deng had the rebound - and it seemed like Okafor just ripped the ball out of his hands, and subsequently laid the ball in the basket. Rough loss.

The expectations were so high in 99. Thought we were the better team. But, UConn did outplay us. Just really disappointed that Brand wasn't getting touches.
I felt K got out coached in 99. Went to a very short bench and did not use Dukes strengths against Uconn.
 

GhostOf301

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This year's FF loss wasn't monumental as far has expectations go. I feel like how Duke looked and played during 90% of the season, most Duke fans would be very happy with a trip to the FF. And other than the clowns who like to harp on "all that talent being wasted", there were only moderate expectations for Duke to do any better than they did by reaching the FF. But it's the who to and the circumstances of which they lost that were hard to accept. So tournament wise, not that significant of a loss. But as far as all time cringe worthy losses, this is near the very top. For me.
 

dukedevilz

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I felt K got out coached in 99. Went to a very short bench and did not use Dukes strengths against Uconn.

Definitely got outcoached in 99. Maggette probably could have been utilized a little more in the title game.
 

ExitFlagger

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This year's FF loss wasn't monumental as far has expectations go. I feel like how Duke looked and played during 90% of the season, most Duke fans would be very happy with a trip to the FF. And other than the clowns who like to harp on "all that talent being wasted", there were only moderate expectations for Duke to do any better than they did by reaching the FF. But it's the who to and the circumstances of which they lost that were hard to accept. So tournament wise, not that significant of a loss. But as far as all time cringe worthy losses, this is near the very top. For me.
You seemed to be pretty high on Duke's talent when you said that they'd bitch slap KU if they met. 😆
 

coryfly

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Sure, it's possible to only let the relevant people know, but there is no way a huge secret like this stays a secret. When you keep recruiting, kids and parents will feel lied to, if that secret comes out. Once the kids and parents find out that a coach has known all along, they will have less trust for that school.

None of the recruits at UNC felt lied to when Roy retired.
 

coryfly

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I think losses are harder for me when I feel like we should have won. The UNC game felt very 50-50 to me. Never felt like we were in complete control of the game. I can certainly understand why some would have the UNC loss ahead of Kansas and MSU, but I had serious doubts about this team getting to the Final Four (or even to the Elite 8, for that matter). So I already felt like the season was successful before the UNC game. I'm content with the 2022 season - and I think that's what makes the UNC loss tolerable.

We definitely should not have lost to Indiana. If you replay that game 10 times, we probably win 8-9 times... The '99 title game had a 50-50 feel to it, but felt like we could have tilted that game in our favor if we simply got Brand more involved on the offensive sets.

The Kentucky loss was hard because we were winning by 17 freaking points with under 10 minutes left. If we conceded a 17 point lead to UNC in the Final Four? Holy Crap, that absolutely would be a fantastically abysmal way to lose - and I'm not sure it could ever be topped.

Yeah, those losses you feel you should win are the worst. Even the UNC loss last week wasn't as bad as some others because even with the lead I always thought Kansas was better and could turn it on and win. Not that it didn't suck but some others have been worse.
 
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lurkeraspect84

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Yeah, those losses you feel you should win are the worst. Even the UNC loss last week wasn't as bad as some others because even with the lead I always thought Kansas was better and could turn it on and win. Not that it didn't suck but some others have been worse.
Who did Roy lose to his last game?
 

johnl1219

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None of the recruits at UNC felt lied to when Roy retired.
That's because there were only 2 of them and they weren't 5 star players. D'Marco Dunn was ranked 64 and Dontrez Styles was ranked 66 according to Rivals. And, we don't know if they felt lied to at all, they could have and Hubert talked them into staying.
 

coryfly

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That's because there were only 2 of them and they weren't 5 star players. D'Marco Dunn was ranked 64 and Dontrez Styles was ranked 66 according to Rivals. And, we don't know if they felt lied to at all, they could have and Hubert talked them into staying.
I feel pretty confident about it. Again, there is nothing wrong with wanting a year long celebration of yourself. Just don’t act like it’s something else.
 

johnl1219

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I feel pretty confident about it. Again, there is nothing wrong with wanting a year long celebration of yourself. Just don’t act like it’s something else.
I don't think anyone is acting at all. I truly believe that Coach K thought first and foremost about the players and not having Jon try and scramble to resign any decommitting kids. I do believe he wanted his song and dance as well, but I don't think that was the first thing on his mind.
 

Random UK Fan

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You have Cousins, Patterson and a PG who can get to the rim at will. Why in God’s name would you jack up 32 threes?
To score 96 points.

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