Its the fvcking Middle East. They’ve been at each other since the dawn of time.
Conspiracy Theories, Patriotism & Regional Dairy Costs
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Its the fvcking Middle East. They’ve been at each other since the dawn of time.
I was more hopeful that we rework the deal as opposed to pulling out all together. There is time though, world leaders need to get together and make something happen. I don't like the instability, but being out of the deal is better than being in it as is.
If I am Israel, I am probably doing something soon while Saudi Arabia has leadership that is willing to work with me to eliminate Iran's military capabilities. I would not be in favor of the U.S. getting involved and certainly don't want a scenario where we occupy another ME country.
6mo/in-season BIG threads, 6mo/political
I heard the same sort of cries from liberals when Trump was talking tough to North Korea and look how that’s progressing. Lol. It really never gets old winning this much. #MAGA
I would say that we are farther away from war now.
The iranian deal was one sided with no inspections. The Senate would not approve it, so Obama made it an executive action. Obama did it with a pen and Trump undone it with a pin.
Lots of laws that were over turned and updated. It is hard to overcome the second amendment. They have been trying to do it for hundreds of years and fail. It does make me spend money. I just sent the NRA another $250 last week.
First, yes, there were inspections built into JCPA deal, and Iran was generally complying with them.
https://www.armscontrol.org/reports...ion/2015/08/Section-3-Understanding-the-JCPOA
Second, fingers crossed that Trump can broker a better deal. North Korea seems to be going well... not sure if that can happen with Iran. Trump's bluster and unpredictability may be good for this sort of thing. Might also be bad. We'll see.
Lastly, anyone calling for war with Iran, even via proxy (Israel) is being awfully foolish, IMO. Iran is not Iraq circa 1991. They have a more sophisticated military with comparatively capable anti-air defenses and capabilities. There is nearly no chance of a preemptive strike by Israel that would actually do serious and limiting damage to either their defenses or their nuclear program, as described in full in this CSIS analysis.
https://csis-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/...ication/120906_Iran_US_Preventive_Strikes.pdf
And here is an analysis from the Wilson Center, which estimates that, even if everything went according to plan, the best the United States itself could do with the military option is delay the Iranian nuclear program development by four years.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/IranReport_091112_FINAL.pdf
Do people actually want the United States to go to war with Iran? To actually get into a ground war and invade to do real damage to their nuclear program? Do they really think it would prevent a real nuclear power? I can't help but think it would be hugely costly, in terms of materials and lives, and would simply leave a MORE angry Middle Eastern power even MORE determined to get nuclear weapons to protect itself.
You can try to limit weapons either peacefully or through violence. I am a firm believer that, more often than not, violence begets violence, and that it is a better approach for American citizens to try to work out issues with Iran through diplomacy, as I do not see Iran as a direct threat to American lives, and as a very limited threat to American interests.
https://www.armscontrol.org/reports...ion/2015/08/Section-3-Understanding-the-JCPOA
Second, fingers crossed that Trump can broker a better deal. North Korea seems to be going well... not sure if that can happen with Iran. Trump's bluster and unpredictability may be good for this sort of thing. Might also be bad. We'll see.
Lastly, anyone calling for war with Iran, even via proxy (Israel) is being awfully foolish, IMO. Iran is not Iraq circa 1991. They have a more sophisticated military with comparatively capable anti-air defenses and capabilities. There is nearly no chance of a preemptive strike by Israel that would actually do serious and limiting damage to either their defenses or their nuclear program, as described in full in this CSIS analysis.
https://csis-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/...ication/120906_Iran_US_Preventive_Strikes.pdf
And here is an analysis from the Wilson Center, which estimates that, even if everything went according to plan, the best the United States itself could do with the military option is delay the Iranian nuclear program development by four years.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/IranReport_091112_FINAL.pdf
Do people actually want the United States to go to war with Iran? To actually get into a ground war and invade to do real damage to their nuclear program? Do they really think it would prevent a real nuclear power? I can't help but think it would be hugely costly, in terms of materials and lives, and would simply leave a MORE angry Middle Eastern power even MORE determined to get nuclear weapons to protect itself.
You can try to limit weapons either peacefully or through violence. I am a firm believer that, more often than not, violence begets violence, and that it is a better approach for American citizens to try to work out issues with Iran through diplomacy, as I do not see Iran as a direct threat to American lives, and as a very limited threat to American interests.
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I think you can both see there's only one way to settle this between you two . . .
I do not want a war with Iran. I don't want a war with anyone. But if Israel were to preemptively strike Iran, it would be for the protection of their country, not an American proxy. War should be an absolute last resort, but Israel can't continue to allow Iran to stockpile missiles and rockets in Lebanon and Syria and they certainly can't allow them to develop the technology to carry out a nuclear attack. Their intentions are pretty clear. Destroy Israel. They've also been using rogue militant groups in Yemen to carry out attacks against Saudi Arabia. I linked an article a while back that went over how the Israelis and the Saudis have been sharing intelligence and working together on a plan to take out Iran's nuclear program. I don't think you should underestimate the power of those two countries. We control the air over Iraq, and with Saudi Arabia working with Israel, they would have a clear path to Iran.
My biggest concern is how we can keep from being drawn into it.
As far as American lives not being lost, we have already lost soldiers to Iran.
The Middle East is a mess. Too many religions, who hate each other, too many tribes and too many bad ideas.
Well boys, it's time to get your all's differences settled . . . Old West style! On 3 . . .
1 . . . 2 . . .
It is a constant reminder of how thankful we should be to live in America.
Well boys, it's time to get your all's differences settled . . . Old West style!
By whipping it out?
Sure, I agree with most of that. I am honestly not convinced that Iran wants to destroy Israel... I think that rhetoric, like the "AMERICA IS THE DEVIL!" nonsense, just plays to the Iranian base. Do they supply militia groups and all of that? Yeah. But none of those will destroy Israel, and I don't think Israel going to war with Iran will, long term, lessen any of that.
As for underestimating Israel and Saudi Arabia... I don't know. That Wilson analysis seems to think that, at best, Israel can delay Iranian production by four years. Does adding the Saudis to the mix up that to "forever"? I doubt it. Would it be enough force that Iran would legit back down and not attempt to develop nuclear weapons? Again, I doubt it. Attack someone without eliminating them wholesale, and they usually look to defend themselves more rabidly than ever.
I don't quite get your last line... are you talking in the relatively distant past? I don't remember anything recent about American soldiers being killed by the Iranian military or the current Iranian administration?
Well boys, it's time to get your all's differences settled . . . Old West style! On 3 . . .
1 . . . 2 . . .
Not sure how any of those posts connect...?
In comparison to the Middle East, yeah. In comparison to many parts of Europe, not really.
In comparison to the Middle East, HELL yeah.
Europe is hit or miss. There are some places with fantastic quality of life, and others, not so much. My guess is that there are parts of the US where you would be better off in some places in Europe, and parts of Europe where you would be better off in the US.
But if you listen to some liberals, they will tell you that America has never been great. Apparently it’s not a good place to live.
Haha...well done! 8/10I think you can both see there's only one way to settle this between you two . . .
USA > Europe. Boy that fact must rustle your little lefty jimmies
I am sure there are great places in Europe. But I am not sure what you are getting at. Are you saying we should not be thankful that we live in America? Why would you say, 'not really'? If it is because of politics, you must consider that Europe is also divided socially and economically.
The U.S. is so big and diverse in nature that the same could be said within the U.S. I am not sure that the people who say they are not thankful to live here are capable of enjoying life.
Hundreds of U.S. soldiers have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan by the Iranians. Mostly through the funding and arming of defeactors in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan. The majority of IED or roadside bombs since 2011 have been Iranian made. It may not be tjeir military carrying out the actual attacks, but they are directly involved in the killing of our soldiers.
They don’t really. It was more about just the 3 of you going back and forth, that’s all.
Not many. Aside from Michelle Obama, who can you quote out of context who has said that?
America has never been perfect and never will be, but we should always be working to improve it.
My son is an Iraqi vet and most of his losses in his command was to the fvcking Iranians.
Screw the Ayatollahs and all the shitheads that fight for him. The bastards tried to kill my son. They will not get 72 virgins in paradise. They will get hell fire.
Everything that I have seen suggests that a large number of the citizens of Iran don't support their government's desires and want a peaceful leadership. That's why it would be a shame to see an all out war. It could turn into a much larger version of Syria where if they feel backed against the wall they will start murdering their citizens. Already have, so...
But yeah, Iran has been actively killing our soldiers. Not sure how that is not common knowledge.
http://jcpa.org/killing-americans-allies-irans-war/
Israel claims to have struck every Iranian military compound in Syria in response to them firing rockets into Israel last night. Iran has been condemned by the U.K., France and Germany. Israel has been condemned by Russia and Syria. Syria has warned Israel to "stop the aggression or live like rats forever." Israel has warned Iran to stop firing rockets or cause a major conflict in the region.
So... here we go.
So... here we go.
I remember one of the best lines ever by a political commentator one time talking about Israel. He said something like "if those around Israel would put down their guns, they'll be no more fighting, but if Israel puts down their guns, they'll be no more Israel."
.... and it is true. Islam is a horrible religion with no morals.
The major tenant of the Islamic faith is to kill all Jews on earth.
I am part Jewish so I don't appreciate that shit.
you ain't been to europe have you?
Europe's standard of living is a fraction of ours. What part of Europe is better then the U.S.? I need to vacation there; whoops maybe not.
The European culture is far behind. Sorry.
That guy has yet to respond to anything. He likely has never been out of the country, yet thinks he knows it's better somewhere else.
"Better" is subjective, of course, but quantifying standards of living is something many researchers have attempted: The US ranked 7th, 20th, and 10th according to three studies linked from the first link I found on a search for "standard of living worldwide."
What a piece of shit.
I am a retired, middle class person. I live in rural Kentucky. My house is 4,000 square feet with all the amenities.
I have the highest speed internet, all cable channels, free phone to all North America, central American and European Union nations. I can even get all the Duke games!
I have fantastic health care. My open-heart surgery cost me a whopping $2.00 U.S. My knee replacement cost the same $2.00.
I have friends in Europe who are fvcking broke. Why?
I don't give a shit about your rankings as they are schewed toward a bunch of fascist crap. I went to Wal Mart yesterday and a dozen eggs were $.42. A gallon of whole milk was $0.92. Rib eye steak was $8.98 a pound. Canvass your buddies in Europe and find out what they pay for a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs or a gallon of milk.
Our gasoline in the U.S. is cheap, our cars are cheap, and we have the interstate highway system where we can go 70+ mph to any damned place we want to go. In Europe it is crowded and more damned laws than you can throw a stick at.
So, you go ahead and tell us how great Europe is. HELL MAN, you can’t even hunt a damned rabbit in that god forsaken piece of earth because you can’t own a god damned gun.
Geeze get a life. On the other hand why don’t you ****ing go to Europe and find out for yourself instead of lecturing the free Americans.
What a piece of shit.
I am a retired, middle class person. I live in rural Kentucky. My house is 4,000 square feet with all the amenities.
I have the highest speed internet, all cable channels, free phone to all North America, central American and European Union nations. I can even get all the Duke games!
I have fantastic health care. My open-heart surgery cost me a whopping $2.00 U.S. My knee replacement cost the same $2.00.
I have friends in Europe who are fvcking broke. Why?
I don't give a shit about your rankings as they are schewed toward a bunch of fascist crap. I went to Wal Mart yesterday and a dozen eggs were $.42. A gallon of whole milk was $0.92. Rib eye steak was $8.98 a pound. Canvass your buddies in Europe and find out what they pay for a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs or a gallon of milk.
Our gasoline in the U.S. is cheap, our cars are cheap, and we have the interstate highway system where we can go 70+ mph to any damned place we want to go. In Europe it is crowded and more damned laws than you can throw a stick at.
So, you go ahead and tell us how great Europe is. HELL MAN, you can’t even hunt a damned rabbit in that god forsaken piece of earth because you can’t own a god damned gun.
Geeze get a life. On the other hand why don’t you ****ing go to Europe and find out for yourself instead of lecturing the free Americans.
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