College basketball's way-too-early preseason top 25 teams for the 2020-21 season

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by BasketBallJunkie-UK, Mar 18, 2020.

  1. jhmossy

    jhmossy Well-Known Member
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    Definitely not butthurt. I don't disagree with all of your opinions. If UK returns those guys, then I would put UK preseason #1. I think it's closer than you think though. UK will not be far and away better than the field. They will be a top contender but that's about it.
     
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  2. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Okay, but seriously when is the last time college hoops has seen a college lineup with as much length and athleticism at positions 1-5 as the potential FSU one for next year? Smallest guy is 6’5 and he was a top football recruit with big time athleticism.
     
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  3. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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    The '15 Kentucky team is probably the gold standard for length and athleticism. 6'6, 6'6, 6'10, 6'11, 7'0.

    The '13 Syracuse team was a long team, too. Michael Carter-Williams, a 6'6 guy, was running the point. So 2 for 2 on Final Fours, at least.

    Can't think of anyone specific off the top of my head from the past 5 years. Gonzaga's backcourt next year should feature guys that are 6'5, 6'5, and 6'7. Probably two 6'10 players in the frontcourt.
     
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  4. kyjeff1

    kyjeff1 Well-Known Member
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    I get that and trust me, I know Virginia will have some good pieces, I just don't think the guys surrounding Hauser will be good enough to warrant such a high ranking.
    Losing Diakete is a big blow. Seemed like he was your go to guy this year and you didn't appear to have all that much fire power after him.

    I know Hauser is a hoss, but it's the other pieces around him than give me pause.
     
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  5. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    I wouldn't say Duke has made the most of draws in that period, or done a good job of peaking in March, on average. They've won a few titles, and fallen on their faces almost every other year. In 2010, they were basically "last man standing" when everybody else choked.

    Sure, I'll take multiple titles in a decade, but you can't say they've been consistently peaking at the right time.
     
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  6. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    You’re right about the 2015 UK team. Dang that was basically the Bucks playing college ball lol.

    Syracuse is harder to compare because of their zone. They certainly had the length, but I’d be a bit more scared of a Leonard Hamilton in your face D than the 2-3.
     
  7. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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    We've made it to the Sweet 16 more often than Kansas has in the past decade. Just as many regional finals. And more overall tournament wins.

    And the 2010 was a heckuva team. Vastly underrated. They crushed the team that beat Kentucky. They beat the team that defeated Syracuse. They had a top 5 offense and defense. And they're the #8 KenPom team of all-time. Worthy of being a national champion, regardless of what some pundits might think.
     
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  8. KUhawks34

    KUhawks34 Well-Known Member
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    KU will be a top 5 team easily by years end. Guaranteed 1 seed. Mark my words
     
  9. jhmossy

    jhmossy Well-Known Member
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  10. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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  11. KUhawks34

    KUhawks34 Well-Known Member
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    Hopefully we play UCLA first. I imagine they’ll have Kansas and Virginia on opposite sides. Would love to see a UVA/KU matchup.
     
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  12. Original_Irish

    Original_Irish Well-Known Member
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    Pretty much sums it up for me.

    Gonzaga's Starters next Year:
    PG: Suggs #9 overall recruit, top 3 for high school player of the year
    SG: Joel Ayayi, fringe NBA guy. 10.6 ppg 6.3 rpg 3.2 apg
    SF: Corey Kispert, fringe NBA guy. Julius Irving award finalist 14 ppg on 44% 3pt%
    PF Drew Timme, Sophmore, top 40 recruit. 10 and 5 as a freshman. Future Pro
    C Oumar Ballo, Top international prospect. In the under 19 World Cup he averaged 18 and 11 and took MALI to a silver medal.

    Key Backups:
    PF: Anton Watson, top 40 recruit last year. Coming off injury, might start at power forward.
    SF: Julian Strawther, 59th ranked player in current class
    SG: Dominik Harris 58th ranked player in current class
    Pavel Zacharov, 89th ranked player in previous class

    Expect them to grab up a key grad transfer to play backup point guard as well.

    This team is going to be incredibly athletic and they are going to be a better defensive team than we have seen in the last few years. Probably not as good defensively as the 17 team but close.
     
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  13. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    You seriously think it's shocking that there's high expectation for Baylor? Because they lose a role player and a decent big man? They bring back their top three players plus one of the best defensive players in the country. Does any team bring back more production than that?
     
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  14. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    Should 2010 even be included? That was 11 postseasons ago. Didn’t the decade start in 2011?

    Regardless, no KU fan is bragging about consistently peaking in March during those years. But it’s also worth noting that Duke has had way more talent in that span. It’s all relative. For some of those teams, losing in the elite 8 or Sweet 16 was a pretty big failure. But there were also two first round losses and a 2nd round.
     
  15. Montana81

    Montana81 Well-Known Member
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    I expect Boston to shoot the ball better in college. Much like Devin Booker, he’ll benefit from having better talent around him to draw attention away. He’ll have to be pickier about his shot selection. But he has god form.

    I don’t know about Clarke. I can’t say I’ve seen a ton of him.
     
  16. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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    Yes, 2010 should be included. It's a part of the previous decade.

    In the last decade, KU has been a #1 seed six times and a #2 seed three times. Yet, you only made it to the second weekend 6 times. Duke made it to the second weekend seven times - and did so with a lower seed average than KU. If they performed according to their seeds, KU would have had 35 wins. Duke would had 32. KU ended up -11 (24 wins), and Duke was -6 (26 wins). Both schools choked in certain regards, but it's hard to argue that Duke choked more than KU.

    And I never said peaked in March. I only claimed that we had the second most tournament wins from the past decade, which is accurate.
     
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  17. hawkit3113

    hawkit3113 Well-Known Member
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    Next year would be a good year to schedule UK, Duke, and UVA
     
  18. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, Zags will be freaking loaded.
     
  19. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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    No chance Brock Ravet comes back, right? Haven't heard anything about him officially transferring. He'd be a very suitable backup.
     
  20. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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    Duke and Iowa in the Big Ten Challenge next season. The Duke kids are dying to get revenge from that scrimmage.
     
  21. hawkit3113

    hawkit3113 Well-Known Member
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    Indeed. They were dejected from that loss. They were shocked at how good Garza was.
     
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  22. Original_Irish

    Original_Irish Well-Known Member
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    I think it is unlikely that he comes back.
     
  23. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    I doubt there's a substantial difference in seeding, but regardless, that doesn't tell all in terms of talent level. I think just about anyone would agree that the 2018 Duke roster was much more talented than KU's, despite the fact that KU was a 1 and Duke a 2. KU was the dog in that matchup.

    Duke's had several of their most talented teams of all time in that span, and KU has had several of its least talented teams of the last 40 years.

    I would say it was impressive for KU to claim several of those seeds. Duke was often seeded lower than expected. That shouldn't benefit their argument.

    Let's also not forget that some relatively talented players did not play in the tourney. Losing Embiid completely wrecked their chances in 2014. That team didn't deserve a 2 seed at that point. Azubuike missed two tourneys (now three). We've seen the difference that his presence makes. Not to mention talented players like Preston, Alexander, Vick, etc who either never played or missed the tourney.
     
  24. Demarcus Kidd-Miller

    Demarcus Kidd-Miller Well-Known Member
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    Pretty sure we were bigger than every NBA team except one that year. It was one of those weird facts they mentioned every single game.
     
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  25. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    FSU has had a couple teams big like that too. Matter of fact, I just looked and UK was 79.3 inches for average height in 2015 and FSU was 79.2

    But it’s one thing to be big. It’s another to be big AND super athletic. The 2015 UK team obviously was. Next year FSU would be too if the two NBA guys come back.
     
  26. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    Garza is coming back. that made a lot of Hawk fans happy.
     
  27. kyjeff1

    kyjeff1 Well-Known Member
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    Next year won’t be as down across the board as it was this year and losing Gillispie is a big blow. He made this seasons team go. Take him away and they aren't anywhere near the same team.
    I'm sure they'll adjust, but their lack of height and length will, again, put them at a disadvantage against a lot of teams. That was a problem for them that showed up at the end of this year.
     
  28. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    The trio of guards and Vital made the team go, and they're all returning. I'm pretty sure you'd be excited if you had those four players coming back.
     
  29. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    i would really like that matchup but it will never happen as Iowa will get the home court in the ACC/BT Challenge and Duke does not play road games.

    oh by the by the last time they played Iowa in Carver Iowa won. that Duke team had Christian L.
     
  30. kyjeff1

    kyjeff1 Well-Known Member
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    I am not saying they won't be good
     
  31. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    Just because I'm in a lull while working from home, I looked up the results for KU and Duke over the last 10 years. Starting ranking, ending ranking, tourney result.

    Duke
    2011: 1/3 Sweet 16
    2012: 6/8 1st round
    2013: 8/6 Elite 8
    2014: 4/8 1st round
    2015: 4/4 Nat'l Champions
    2016: 5/19 Sweet 16
    2017: 1/7 2nd round
    2018: 1/9 Elite 8
    2019: 4/1 Elite 8
    2020: 4/10 N/A

    KU
    2011: 7/2 Elite 8
    2012: 13/6 Nat'l Runner-up
    2013: 7/3 Sweet 16
    2014: 5/10 2nd round
    2015: 5/10 2nd round
    2016: 4/1 Elite 8
    2017: 3/3 Elite 8
    2018: 4/4 Final 4
    2019: 1/17 2nd round
    2020: 3/1 N/A

    I would trade results just for the championship, but Duke has been pretty disappointing in the rest of that period. From preseason #1 to Sweet 16 and 2nd round losses, from preseason #4 to a 1st round loss, preseason #6 to first round loss. Only finished with the same or higher ranking three times.

    KU has disappointed overall in the tourney in that span, but they have a better claim to peaking at the right time. 7 times they finished with the same or higher ranking. In the three years that they didn't. they had injuries to several really good players (which are also the three years with really disappointing tourney results).

    Not sure about Duke's injury history in that period, but I don't remember them entering the tourney multiple times without players of Embiid's or Azubuike's caliber.
     
  32. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    You said it's a head scratcher. When's the last time a top team returned that much and wasn't ranked in the top 5? It would be head-scratching if they weren't.
     
  33. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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    Most talented teams? Yikes. No. The bulk of our most talented teams were in between 86-94 and 98-04. The 2015 and 2019 could qualify, but no one else.

    And guess what? Everyone has injuries. Duke had significant injuries in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017, and 2019.

    The 2018 was talented, but the backcourt was nothing special. And the depth was even worse.
     
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  34. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Both have 3 years not making it beyond the first weekend. Both have three Elite 8 finishes. Kansas with one more Final Four, but Duke has the Natty.

    Seems pretty even to me. But if you do the last 10 tourneys, Duke adds another Natty.
     
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  35. kyjeff1

    kyjeff1 Well-Known Member
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    It is a head scratcher.
    Look, I get it, they're a BIG12 team and they won in your house this year, but there is a reason they are returning most of their players. If they were extremely talented, had measurables, incredible athletesism or bigtime upside, they wouldn't be inked in to return to Baylor.

    That tells me that they're experienced, but not talented enough to even give the NBA a look.

    On top of that, coaching matters, Dean Prichard hasn't accomplished anything when it mattered most.

    If UK returns Montgomery and Quickly, there is no way in hell I would put Baylor, UVA or Gonzaga ahead of them. I'm sure you'll disagree.
     
  36. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    Who was Duke missing in the tourney in those years that had the impact of Embiid or Azubuike 2X?

    And I wasn't saying that they were the most talented Duke teams. Just that they're pretty high on the list.
     
  37. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    But not even in terms of meeting preseason expectation or peaking at the right time. Which was the discussion.
     
  38. jwardelt

    jwardelt Well-Known Member
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    How many burger boyz does K need to be successful?










    ;)
     
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  39. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    Right....it must be because they're in the Big 12. Has nothing to do with the fact that they were clearly a standout team this season. The other posters and people who are projecting them highly must be Big 12-biased too.

    Who cares about these players' pro potential or draft stock? We're talking about college production. And those are very solid college players. Do you think that Dotson and Azubuike being fringe first rounders makes them less capable than players projected higher? If they were to surprise and return (not likely, but it's not as if they're guaranteed to be drafted), would you say "there's a reason they're returning?"

    If measurables, athleticism, and upside were all that mattered, Kentucky would dominate every year.

    Btw, why's it always assumed that players like Montgomery will make a huge leap, but other teams' players won't?
     
    79 MrBaracus, Mar 19, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  40. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    don't you mean Bid Macks?
     

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