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Avenatti on Duke

coryfly said:
Are you refuting that UK and Duke have landed more elite guys than UNC recently? I mean, we can start naming names.
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Just saying UNC has had plenty of OAD's, McD's kids, and comparing them only to Duke and UK is easy.

It's late, I'm probably reading it wrong, it seems you were saying UNC wasn't loaded with elite talent year in year out. So far you have more OAD's than UK this year.
 
lurkeraspect84 said:
Just saying UNC has had plenty of OAD's, McD's kids, and comparing them only to Duke and UK is easy.
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It is easy to see that Duke and UK have won basically every battle against UNC. I have no issues saying they just won them. However, that isn't really what we are discussing here. So if what others are saying it true why have they won them?

Remember, I was responding to what someone said, then you responded to that.
 
coryfly said:
It is easy to see that Duke and UK have won basically every battle against UNC. I have no issues saying they just won them. However, that isn't really what we are discussing here. So if what others are saying it true why have they won them?

Remember, I was responding to what someone said, then you responded to that.
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I think UNC’s brand has taken quite a hit in recent years. The team with Zeller, Barnes and Henson was the last one with multiple top 10 guys on it. I think Cal to UK hurt because we started getting some of the players you guys were.

Then the academic scandal. And now the reputation for being the anti one and done blue blood.

You guys won a title and got nowhere near the buzz as some other teams. Probably because you did it with juniors and seniors.

I’d like to think I’m crazy, id probably enjoy the sport more, but right now it sure seems like a lot of things matter in the sport besides what’s actually happening on the court.
 
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Montana81 said:
coryfly said:
It is easy to see that Duke and UK have won basically every battle against UNC. I have no issues saying they just won them. However, that isn't really what we are discussing here. So if what others are saying it true why have they won them?

Remember, I was responding to what someone said, then you responded to that.
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I think UNC’s brand has taken quite a hit in recent years. The team with Zeller, Barnes and Henson was the last one with multiple top 10 guys on it. I think Cal to UK hurt because we started getting some of the players you guys were.

Then the academic scandal. And now the reputation for being the anti one and done blue blood.

You guys won a title and got nowhere near the buzz as some other teams. Probably because you did it with juniors and seniors.

I’d like to think I’m crazy, id probably enjoy the sport more, but right now it sure seems like a lot of things matter in the sport besides what’s actually happening on the court.
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I agree with all of that.
 
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Montana81 said:
I don’t believe we’re cheating right now. But, Cal was a Nike guy for years via his relationship with Wes. At some point he had to have benefitted from that. I don’t think he’s done anything dirty at UK. But I do know Wes talked to Brandon knight on our behalf at one point. Wes was an influencer but he wasn’t throwing money at kids.
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I honestly don't understand how you can honestly think this? He has never had the success year after year that's he's had since day 1 at UK. Within a couple weeks of being hired, he had the #1 class.

Listen, I honestly don't blame any coach for doing whatever is needed to win. I hate that its come to this, but it's a business. If they don't produce they're going to lose millions once they get fired. If he's going after a top player and the 3 other schools have already offered that player 100k, if he's going to have ant chance at getting him...he has to pay.

What's irritating is seeing a fanbase ignoring all of the red flags and once in a lifetime coincidences that their program was cheating. I understand having blinders on because they're a fan, but don't then go screaming that everyone else is cheating. I seriously don't understand how anything in the world gets done each day if we truly have this many dumb people waking up each day to go to work.

This isn't just directed towards UK, or Duke, it's any team that consistently pulls in top 10 players year in and year out. I respect the hell out of posters like @Cat_Incognito, @LetsGoDuke301 and @MrBaracus who've said in this thread that even though they hope it's not true...they acknowledge that based on common sense, its possible something was going on. I don't understand why this is so difficult.
 
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jace4655555 said:
I honestly don't understand how you can honestly think this? He has never had the success year after year that's he's had since day 1 at UK. Within a couple weeks of being hired, he had the #1 class.
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That was just the Kentucky Effect.

Anyone remember the Wonder Twins and how they were worthless alone, but together, they could become a mop and make their enemies fall? Anyway, I forgot where I was going.
 
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jace4655555 said:
I honestly don't understand how you can honestly think this? He has never had the success year after year that's he's had since day 1 at UK. Within a couple weeks of being hired, he had the #1 class.

Listen, I honestly don't blame any coach for doing whatever is needed to win. I hate that its come to this, but it's a business. If they don't produce they're going to lose millions once they get fired. If he's going after a top player and the 3 other schools have already offered that player 100k, if he's going to have ant chance at getting him...he has to pay.

What's irritating is seeing a fanbase ignoring all of the red flags and once in a lifetime coincidences that their program was cheating. I understand having blinders on because they're a fan, but don't then go screaming that everyone else is cheating. I seriously don't understand how anything in the world gets done each day if we truly have this many dumb people waking up each day to go to work.

This isn't just directed towards UK, or Duke, it's any team that consistently pulls in top 10 players year in and year out. I respect the hell out of posters like @Cat_Incognito, @LetsGoDuke301 and @MrBaracus who've said in this thread that even though they hope it's not true...they acknowledge that based on common sense, its possible something was going on. I don't understand why this is so difficult.
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I just think it’s harder for Cal to get away with anything now because of what happened with Camby and Rose. His first several season here he had the likes of Pete Thamel, Pat Forde and Jeff Goodman dumpster diving trying to find any dirt to could to get him in trouble.

Hell Rick Pitino Jr leaked Eric Bledsoe’s high school transcripts to Forde(which is actually illegal) In hopes Bledsoe would be ruled ineligible after the fact.

Pete Thamel actually flew to Turkey to look into Enes Kanter!

There was zero chance of Cal getting away with anything shady while he was at UK.

The NCAA spent a year investigating Skal, who turned over all his financial records to them, and found nothing.

If Cal was doing something dirty at Uk you’d think one of these guys would have found something substantial. The best they could do was Eric Bledsoe doing extra credit for a qualifying grade in the 11th hour.

Since then we really haven’t even taken any chances. We took Kanter and Skal but didn’t even consider playing either until we and the NCAA were absolutely sure. And can you blame Cal? After having two final fours vacated?
 
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jace4655555 said:
This 100%!!! Its beyond absurd to see fanbases act like their the only one's who dont do it. While screaming cheaters at the other schools who recruit just like them. It's not a matter of if their cheating....its who's the best at cheating. That's the only thing debatable in this argument.
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No doubt, but holy crap man, the school you attended, definitely cheated you the day they described the definitions of there, their and they're.
 
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Montana81 said:
I just think it’s harder for Cal to get away with anything now because of what happened with Camby and Rose. His first several season here he had the likes of Pete Thamel, Pat Forde and Jeff Goodman dumpster diving trying to find any dirt to could to get him in trouble.

Hell Rick Pitino Jr leaked Eric Bledsoe’s high school transcripts to Forde(which is actually illegal) In hopes Bledsoe would be ruled ineligible after the fact.

Pete Thamel actually flew to Turkey to look into Enes Kanter!

There was zero chance of Cal getting away with anything shady while he was at UK.

The NCAA spent a year investigating Skal, who turned over all his financial records to them, and found nothing.

If Cal was doing something dirty at Uk you’d think one of these guys would have found something substantial. The best they could do was Eric Bledsoe doing extra credit for a qualifying grade in the 11th hour.

Since then we really haven’t even taken any chances. We took Kanter and Skal but didn’t even consider playing either until we and the NCAA were absolutely sure. And can you blame Cal? After having two final fours vacated?
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This, this right here is why I don't think Cal is cheating. I think he has lost a lot of players to some funny business, but there are way too many people, you have some of them listed, that are dying to nail Calipari to the wall, they have already played their hands, the second that there is a hint of wrongdoing, those jackholes drop what they are doing to see if they can dig something up to nail Cal.

I'm very confident that Cal and his staff have not paid players, corroborated with Nike to pay players, or cheated in any way since he's been at UK. There are too many eyes on him.

Can you imagine what Forde and Thamel would be doing right now if Zion went to UK and these accusations were floating around? Their trailers would be set up right outside Cal's office right now.
 
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So Calipari isn't cheating because he has too many eyes on him. Simple, but reasonable thought. But if players went to Kentucky and got paid by Nike, it wouldn't be Calipari who is cheating. Again, I think it is silly to think that what is going on with the shoe companies is exclusive to certain programs or that it is proof that certain programs cheat.
 
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If you click the tweet, he has an 8 page document showing payments and conversations regarding DeAndre Ayton. But nothing else on Duke. The comments are funny. People are giving him shit for not providing anything on Duke.

 
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LetsGoDuke301 said:
So Calipari isn't cheating because he has too many eyes on him. Simple, but reasonable thought. But if players went to Kentucky and got paid by Nike, it wouldn't be Calipari who is cheating. Again, I think it is silly to think that what is going on with the shoe companies is exclusive to certain programs or that it is proof that certain programs cheat.
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What I'm saying is, I am confident you won't be seeing any correspondence between Cal, his staff or anyone associated with UK and a shoe company trying to buy players.

KU is in the crosshairs because there IS some shady text messages between Self and an ADIDAS rep where it looks like some dealings are being made.

Nobody can control what happens when a shoe company rep strikes a deal with a kid and they keep it a secret.

But how does that mean "everyone is cheating"? That's what I'm talking about. There's a big difference between a program/coach that is cheating and a shoe company steering players without the coaches knowledge.

If Nike steers a player to UK, does that mean UK is cheating? On here it does, why wouldn't it, everyone on here says Cal did something to have wins vacated from 2 schools. Facts are optional on here apparently.
 
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coryfly said:
Yeah, I doubt coaches are directly involved here. It is Nike doing business with families.
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It's crazy to think back to Kanter. He was paid 36k for school, and the parents (father was a doctor), kept the money thinking they might have to pay it back.

Now you have parents receiving way more that has nothing to do with education.
 
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lurkeraspect84 said:
coryfly said:
Yeah, I doubt coaches are directly involved here. It is Nike doing business with families.
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It's crazy to think back to Kanter. He was paid 36k for school, and the parents (father was a doctor), kept the money thinking they might have to pay it back.

Now you have parents receiving way more that has nothing to do with education.
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Those darn Dukies.
 
LetsGoDuke301 said:
So Calipari isn't cheating because he has too many eyes on him. Simple, but reasonable thought. But if players went to Kentucky and got paid by Nike, it wouldn't be Calipari who is cheating. Again, I think it is silly to think that what is going on with the shoe companies is exclusive to certain programs or that it is proof that certain programs cheat.
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The minute the players or their families take money, the program is cheating when said player plays his first minute of college ball. It doesn't matter whether the head coach knew anything. All wins are vacated for playing ineligible players.
 
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Clonewithasigh said:
The minute the players or their families take money, the program is cheating when said player plays his first minute of college ball. It doesn't matter whether the head coach knew anything. All wins are vacated for playing ineligible players.[/QUOT
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Clonewithasigh said:
The minute the players or their families take money, the program is cheating when said player plays his first minute of college ball. It doesn't matter whether the head coach knew anything. All wins are vacated for playing ineligible players.
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It does matter whether the coach knows because that would have some bearing on the penalities that the NCAA imposes on the school and coach.
 
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Clonewithasigh said:
The minute the players or their families take money, the program is cheating when said player plays his first minute of college ball. It doesn't matter whether the head coach knew anything. All wins are vacated for playing ineligible players.
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Nope. The player is ineligible, but that doesn't mean the program is cheating. Those wins would be vacated, but no other sanctions to the program.
 
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If the stealing of funds from the mentally ill paraplegic is true, I hope he shares a cell with a dude who's hung like a mule and has the libido of a rabbit.

That said, Nike will make you disappear if you get in their way. $$$
 
Cat_Incognito said:
If the stealing of funds from the mentally ill paraplegic is true, I hope he shares a cell with a dude who's hung like a mule and has the libido of a rabbit.

That said, Nike will make you disappear if you get in their way. $$$
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This wasn’t all of Nike’s doing though, even though it will get spun that way.
 
At a sports law class I took circa 2012, Joe Nocera of the NYTs (and Pete Thamel's buddy) was saying things like "no Kentucky players attended class in the spring of 2010" and "Calipari is the biggest cheater in sports." Mind you that the former was demonstrably false (not just unsupported) and that Thamel was in the middle of scorching Alabama re: Bledsoe and coming up with basically nothing. When I told him that only Daniel Orton, a Billy G recruit/commitment, didn't take spring classes and that the rest (Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, etc..), he said that he didn't believe me. And this was after someone forced Bobby Knight to apologize for saying the same thing without basis.

Does that all mean that Cal cannot and does not cheat? Of course not. But Cal in particular was facing a higher degree of scrutiny than other coaches, although that gap has recently been lessened or eliminated with the FBI stuff. My belief is that all this stuff happens at a level of plausible deniability in all but the rarest circumstances. Just as with any enforcement regime, the low-hanging fruit is gone and what's left is piecing together circumstantial evidence against coaches and programs or getting lucky with third-party efforts (Katrina Powell and the FBI). Basically, the NCAA is the SEC under a Republican administration (historically less enforcement actions), only without subpoena power and with the incentive to allow cash cows to get away with a lot. In other words, K and others are cheating cheaters and Cal is a saint; prove me wrong.
 
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coryfly said:
It is easy to see that Duke and UK have won basically every battle against UNC. I have no issues saying they just won them. However, that isn't really what we are discussing here. So if what others are saying it true why have they won them?

Remember, I was responding to what someone said, then you responded to that.
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I thought UNC did win one game.
 
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Quavarius said:
Oh

View embedded media
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Wow. There you go kids. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

"Avenatti said his accusations towards Williamson, his mother, and Nike were based off of more than just the invoice above. “I don’t make a claim off of just one invoice, we have substantial evidence, documents and testimony,” he said. When asked whether he would make that evidence public, he said, “We very well may release that info,” though he noted that he has no updates he’s willing to share with the public yet."
 
lurkeraspect84 said:
Wow. There you go kids. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

"Avenatti said his accusations towards Williamson, his mother, and Nike were based off of more than just the invoice above. “I don’t make a claim off of just one invoice, we have substantial evidence, documents and testimony,” he said. When asked whether he would make that evidence public, he said, “We very well may release that info,” though he noted that he has no updates he’s willing to share with the public yet."
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The testimony comment, and his history of using common knowledge as a teaser for credibility, I'd say his other evidence is the whole Kansas thing that everyone already knew about.
 
TheDude1 said:
That would be very nice!
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Lol

"The person who sent it told Deadspin they were inspired by 4chan’s 2018 duping of Avenatti and that they sent the fake document because “he falls for crap and I don’t like him.” They searched for Williamson’s mother’s name online, created the document in Microsoft Word, and sent a photo of it to Avenatti, not expecting him to tweet about it so quickly or directly."
 
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LetsGoDuke301 said:
Lol

"The person who sent it told Deadspin they were inspired by 4chan’s 2018 duping of Avenatti and that they sent the fake document because “he falls for crap and I don’t like him.” They searched for Williamson’s mother’s name online, created the document in Microsoft Word, and sent a photo of it to Avenatti, not expecting him to tweet about it so quickly or directly."
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This is like the more public version of the UNC Count dude trolling all the message board posters with the academic stuff. Pretty funny, though I always thought it was weird anyone trusted this guy anyway.
 
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